Suggestion: Make Loot Meaningful

[Igorl]

But of course, you'd end up destroying one of the few end game goals in this game (acquiring an UL weapon with good stats(.

UL weapons / mining amps are the cancer. 15yrs ago L (approx) L SIB weapoms were introduced and all mining amps were L. Loot and mats had markup. Weapons were looted and crafted.

Then a bunch of UL SIB dropped making L weapons less and less relevant. And UL OA105 dropped which single handidly killed all markup on ores within months.

Remedy for OPs thesis is undoing that which is impossible.

I.

 

[wizz]

UL weapons / mining amps are the cancer. 15yrs ago L (approx) L SIB weapoms were introduced and all mining amps were L. Loot and mats had markup. Weapons were looted and crafted.

Then a bunch of UL SIB dropped making L weapons less and less relevant. And UL OA105 dropped which single handidly killed all markup on ores within months.

Remedy for OPs thesis is undoing that which is impossible.

I.

don't forget to mention EP crafting.

 

[wizz]

But of course, you'd end up destroying one of the few end game goals in this game (acquiring an UL weapon with good stats(.

An end game goal could also be to be able to use that ultimate L weapon.
Doesnt have to be UL for it to be an end game goal.

 

[Msturlese]

Game destroy PED so is a negative value proposition
if there is no unlimited assets that "Might" hold vlaue, all the (L) assets are destinated to goto zero.
what is the point to put money inside if all decay anbd disappear?
to hoarde resources?
an UL item being desirable, valuable and being "forever" is the perfect asset to become "safebox" for heavy invested people
when all players need nothing.....there is not a market anymore on the other side
so there comes a gorgon armor that sinks materials at a 2x factor
or a " fidelity" armor that need xxx badges (tyrene arc faction token) to be taken
or a UL flying vehicle that need a full year of "Oratan payback" missions
or a "speed coat" that need endless farming of daily tokens
the more an item is difficult or need dedication, the more itis valuable.
a crafted (L) weapon is just worth the materials to make it
moreover, a UL mayhem sink a TON of tt loss to be obtained, sink big materials to be upgraded
and a (L) gun progress automatically in tier slot, last 2 hours and is easy forgotten.

 

[DonJunior]

UL weapons / mining amps are the cancer. 15yrs ago L (approx) L SIB weapoms were introduced and all mining amps were L. Loot and mats had markup. Weapons were looted and crafted.

Then a bunch of UL SIB dropped making L weapons less and less relevant. And UL OA105 dropped which single handidly killed all markup on ores within months.

Remedy for OPs thesis is undoing that which is impossible.

I.

This only works if all weapons / finders in game are turned L or vastly less efficient.

And only crafted weapons / finders have decent return.

So that crafters who are screwed by this deal would have something to look forward to.

So, would you accept -50% modifier to efficiency for all UL weapons to make this happen. Or you would like to just unilatteraly screw crafters by making mats less common?

I.

What compensation would you give to the owners of UL items when Mindark converts them to L, just their TT value?

 

[wizz]

What compensation would you give to the owners of UL items when Mindark converts them to L, just their TT value?

Just a "sorry" from MA?
Afterall, EU is dynamic.

 

[moise]

What compensation would you give to the owners of UL items when Mindark converts them to L, just their TT value?

no coment on converting UL to L ...
but, anyway, at the end, the only value MA owe you for an item is, yes, his TT value.
no more no less.
MA doesn't care about how much MU you paid for, at all.

 

[addz]

I've always said that the very best items in the game should be (L) and at least 10-15% better than the best UL option

So yeah put (L) version of the loot 2.0 weapons in the mayhem trader and buyable without rare item tokens

 

[Sulje]

I've always said that the very best items in the game should be (L) and at least 10-15% better than the best UL option

So yeah put (L) version of the loot 2.0 weapons in the mayhem trader and buyable without rare item tokens

that is what I was suggesting before, add L weapons to mayhem vendor, for realistic amount of M tokens, preferably 1tt with same stats as daily vendor weapons.

also add mining finders !

 

[Evey]

I've always said that the very best items in the game should be (L) and at least 10-15% better than the best UL option

So yeah put (L) version of the loot 2.0 weapons in the mayhem trader and buyable without rare item tokens

Yup, time for some lvl 200 weapons, ideally long range rifles. ELM/Mayhem, doesn't matter. Time to upgrade the Camo Arms.

 

[Igorl]

What compensation would you give to the owners of UL items when Mindark converts them to L, just their TT value?

They can still be UL but none with efficiency of over 50% or returning only shrapnel in loot or something.

You have massive item and material fountains via UL weapons while there is no economy to sink any to hive some signifficant markup on basically anything else.

And also I said I find this pinch impossible to resolve without pissing alot of ppl off. Buy MA did it nevertheless several times, so nothing is certain.

I.

 

[Evey]

The route to make UL into L, for the 1% of players not willing to commit time, effort and/ or money to go UL has 0 chances of ever happening imo.

There have been discussions in the community of leaving the current items where they are but implement higher variants of (L), with superior power but seeing big majority of old timers still struggling to get to Killstrike or to lvl 100 (which is achievable by a hardcore in <1year) adding even higher level weapons and gear also unlikely... so the only logical route is to try and determine players to progress and MA just gave anyone chance for great UL equipment from Mayhem Vendor by placing rares in loot instead of giving them in competition where only those with access to competition gear could win some rares.
So killing 99% of people's investments to please 1% .. I don't see happening.

 

[Sulje]

The route to make UL into L, for the 1% of players not willing to commit time, effort and/ or money to go UL has 0 chances of ever happening imo.

There have been discussions in the community of leaving the current items where they are but implement higher variants of (L), with superior power but seeing big majority of old timers still struggling to get to Killstrike or to lvl 100 (which is achievable by a hardcore in <1year) adding even higher level weapons and gear also unlikely... so the only logical route is to try and determine players to progress and MA just gave anyone chance for great UL equipment from Mayhem Vendor by placing rares in loot instead of giving them in competition where only those with access to competition gear could win some rares.
So killing 99% of people's investments to please 1% .. I don't see happening.

I don't think people have issues getting to level 100, but people have issues losing $5000-$1000 getting there.

It's best to do whatever you do to keep you away from depositing, and you will skill up over time anyway, one way or another.

 

[Igorl]

The route to make UL into L, for the 1% of players not willing to commit time, effort and/ or money to go UL has 0 chances of ever happening imo.

I agree L economy was abandoned ages ago. And I dont see it coming back.

1% not willing to commit time (5yrs+ grind) and money (100k$+ in gear and liquidity). To be marginally profitable? Yeah, mate IDK which eadibles you are on but Id like a share.

Yeah, see. Ive been around for the L economy, where mobs dropped decent nimber of L weapons which had markup, you could craft mining amps and or weapons for a hit at statistical profit.

Nowdays its basically 99% grind for 100.5% loot and occasional ESI. And pulling items from under noobs in shared loot instances.

Anyways, thats my 2c guys. Im out of here. Just remember to have fun whatever you do.

 

[Msturlese]

losing $5000-$1000 getting there.

The problem of Entropia comes off the wording many times "LOSING" if ped card falls under deposited
this conflicts with "cost to play" in a game. and itis related to the WRONG advertising as "invest in your avatar"
where common language points "Investment" as something that rise its value in time and depreciates in special ways

let's change the sentence in "Empower your avatar"..... rising power has a cost
i add a new 3090 to my computer, i add winter tires to my car... this has a cost to get more power

cost is in term of my time (i am gettign amused, i need to PAY, not tog et paid... oe escorts would make you a gift exiting room,,,,,,

so its is not loosing.... it is "rising to level 100 has a 50k ped cost". fine... you like=? pay, you dont? rise in 10 years

this is very bad for MA too... i already said that MA cost 2.5m per year to run business... someone need to pay the ticket
ad it is pretty clear that skillup and get access to "rare and more valuable" loots must have a cost.... if free for all the
"rare and valuable" would be "common and cheap"

we all can grind a rare in mayhem, and the strategy is pretty celar.. less funded players trash normal tokens until they get a rare
but at least we all know that we can get a rare UL...... that is the endgame goal for many

otherwise it remains only the ladders.... to brag i made 200 strenght slicing merps.....

 

[Deleted member 58836]

The problem of Entropia comes off the wording many times "LOSING" if ped card falls under deposited
this conflicts with "cost to play" in a game. and itis related to the WRONG advertising as "invest in your avatar"
where common language points "Investment" as something that rise its value in time and depreciates in special ways

Could we play at a 1:1 cost in .vs. cost out and put more emphasis on loot composition?

Not currently, this is how MA pays the bills, right?

What if they brought in advertisers to fill that gap in revenue and let us play at a 1:1 ratio?

What happens to the economy in a 1:1 environment?

Are there any other ways to replace that revenue stream? What % of total turnover is this number?

 

[Msturlese]

1:1 ratio would mean free skill grow
MU transfer would become just "profit" and not coverage of losses
of course we are talking of 2.5m cost. a banner like the "global" one would be enough probably because playerbasee would grow insanely
this is what i think

 

[miathan]

Yup, time for some lvl 200 weapons, ideally long range rifles. ELM/Mayhem, doesn't matter. Time to upgrade the Camo Arms.

Why not level 1000, non-sib?

 

[Bamb00cha]

Loot in every profession feels incredibly mundane and uninteresting. Margins are incredibly small for even the best hunters, and output far exceeds demand for just about every material and resource in the game. In my opinion this is not sustainable for both an economic and entertainment aspect.


I propose the following:

1) place shrapnel into the mining loot pool at a consistent rate above 50% of average loot (in TT, not claims)
2) Reduce the drop frequency of all materials (oils, hides, wools, excl. tier and other components) by a minimum of 90%


shrapnel conversions would skyrocket of course and this would cause CLD revenues to plummet, but it's a small price to pay and people who don't even play the game shouldn't care anyways. There is too much output in the current system and I don't see how MA could possibly increase demand when every change made over the last 6+ years has resulted in reduced demand for looted items.

every item looted should have a meaningful impact on a player's gaming experience. it should be exciting to loot oils/hides and it should feel good to hit repeated claims of caldorite/iron.

For 1) very bad idea, more shrapnel less resources. So at very end idea is to instead of claims get shrapnel at mining

 

[Evey]

Why not level 1000, non-sib?

Well, there are items each 5 levels until 100 and only a handful from 100 to 120 but there are a lot of players 100-200 and top level is ~ 350... doesn't it make sense to add some stuff from 100 to 200 at least? Many years ago there were introduced limited faps for which only a like couple players have skill for today.

 

[Evey]

I've always said that the very best items in the game should be (L) and at least 10-15% better than the best UL option

So yeah put (L) version of the loot 2.0 weapons in the mayhem trader and buyable without rare item tokens

Well, you are right with this one. Crazy dps at lvl 85 and the highest efficiency in game is on a limited weapon and guess what, the 0 efficiency weapons from RT are in much higher demand while very few people know about this one.

 

[Msturlese]

Well, there are items each 5 levels until 100 and only a handful from 100 to 120 but there are a lot of players 100-200 and top level is ~ 350... doesn't it make sense to add some stuff from 100 to 200 at least? Many years ago there were introduced limited faps for which only a like couple players have skill for today.

I Look this by the side of a crafter. ARMatrix BP are (L) random drops off gizmo run or other weapon craft
so climbing the ladder the number of clicks naturally decrease (as well as the number of potential users)

Armatrix "effective DPS" (notional /1.4380) is equal to 76 for series 95, 78 for 100 80 for 105 so adds 2 DPS per 5 levels.

an Hypotetical series 200 ( would then deal 50 dps more than a series 100 that is 126 dps same obtained with a Mayhem bp-130 T4

i wonder if the 10 ? 30? players that can use such a weapon need it...

If MA wants to put a reason for a "EVE Class" shooter to use a (L) weapon must do better...
Introducing level 110 + weapon with .....150% firepower as the equivalent UL could do it
a 120 dps series 130 that starts like a t4 bp130 could be interesting at 140% mu...
140% mu is just 3% extra bullet cost for 50% more dps and 200k saved in tool locked ped

[EDITED: And would help to sink oils and ores and incentive ppl to level up]

 

[Evey]

I Look this by the side of a crafter. ARMatrix BP are (L) random drops off gizmo run or other weapon craft
so climbing the ladder the number of clicks naturally decrease (as well as the number of potential users)

Armatrix "effective DPS" (notional /1.4380) is equal to 76 for series 95, 78 for 100 80 for 105 so adds 2 DPS per 5 levels.

an Hypotetical series 200 ( would then deal 50 dps more than a series 100 that is 126 dps same obtained with a Mayhem bp-130 T4

i wonder if the 10 ? 30? players that can use such a weapon need it...

If MA wants to put a reason for a "EVE Class" shooter to use a (L) weapon must do better...
Introducing level 110 + weapon with .....150% firepower as the equivalent UL could do it
a 120 dps series 130 that starts like a t4 bp130 could be interesting at 140% mu...
140% mu is just 3% extra bullet cost for 50% more dps and 200k saved in tool locked ped

[EDITED: And would help to sink oils and ores and incentive ppl to level up]

I'm 100 levels behind highest skilled player. With UE5 other tryhards will emerge and even more determined so they will max everything on their profession path in 6months.

Another thing that is really annoying with the composition of the loot: 0 incentive to go for higer/highest DPS in 99% of cases. We have Mulmun Vigg which only a few hunters can efficiently kill, dropping Boar armor parts and Cryogenic 4 (L), Polaris armor parts from Mulciber, low level MF from The Eviscerator, nothing from Proteron Stalkers.

So not only composition of useful materials needs to be addressed but also the need of impact on loot for higher maturity in each mob. This alone would be a good boost in players wanting to progress skill-wise and gear-wise.

 

[forgo]

Loot in every profession feels incredibly mundane and uninteresting. Margins are incredibly small for even the best hunters, and output far exceeds demand for just about every material and resource in the game. In my opinion this is not sustainable for both an economic and entertainment aspect.


I propose the following:

1) place shrapnel into the mining loot pool at a consistent rate above 50% of average loot (in TT, not claims)
2) Reduce the drop frequency of all materials (oils, hides, wools, excl. tier and other components) by a minimum of 90%


shrapnel conversions would skyrocket of course and this would cause CLD revenues to plummet, but it's a small price to pay and people who don't even play the game shouldn't care anyways. There is too much output in the current system and I don't see how MA could possibly increase demand when every change made over the last 6+ years has resulted in reduced demand for looted items.

every item looted should have a meaningful impact on a player's gaming experience. it should be exciting to loot oils/hides and it should feel good to hit repeated claims of caldorite/iron.

I am not sure where people get the idea that crafting is taxed or affects CLD (notice on shoping areas and land areas there is no distinction for crafting tax), crafting is the machine that moves hunting and mining markups.

The tax system is highly misunderstood...so that is one problem.


Residue without explosives and shrapnel would be nonexistant and a much higher markup,
causing higher amps and more miners unable to justify buying them.
There were very good reasons for adding explosives.

You are asking for loot to be improved while reducing the loot we get?
I don't have a lot of loss on loot itself, I craft much of it....mostly out of the constant need for residue.
Even basic oils and hides can make me thousands of peds per month.
This is how the game is intended to be played, and is the way to maximize markups.

I have averaged a six figure USD income each year over the last decade with the withdrawls ive made from the game...there is nothing wrong with the system, only something wrong with how people make vast assumptions about the game without verifying it....like CLD earning off crafting.

Hell, you probably didn't even know MA has a patent from 2001 that describes the game and the mechanics in detail. Which also describes metaverse in detail and has a 20 year shelf life....2021...Facebook announces metaverse.

Maybe understand those very basic design elements first....then come back and make suggestions that actually apply.

 

[thestupidone]

Ok, so my 0.2 pecs on the matter.
And sorry for reviving a kinda old thread.

Reducing oil drops would just make crafting more expensive.
Making crafting more expensive is gonna make (L) items even less used due too high MU.
Less (L) use is just gonna bring down prices to equilibrium, again pushing down the prices on oils.
Wich just brings us back to where we are now but with a bigger expense in shrap conversion for MA and less loot for hunters.

What we need to do is to increase demand for "crap" loot.

The main issue is the games focus on permanence currently.
What needs to be done for this is to over time give us permanent problems with temporary solutions rather then doing
what we're doing now (temporary problems with permament solutions).
Until this is done I can't see anything changing the problem with "boring" loot.

 

[wizz]

What we need to do is to increase demand for "crap" loot.

There always was a demand for shitloot.
Until they introduced Expl crafting with mats from the TT.

 

[thestupidone]

There always was a demand for shitloot.
Until they introduced Expl crafting with mats from the TT.

Yes I can kind of agree there, but we're not getting rid of that no matter how much we ask for it.

But this situation would pop up sooner or later even if they didn't add that unfortunately.

 

[Darlas]

I know this will sound stupid but the L reroute could be what the game need to be as good as it was in the past and a way to dont destroy the people investment or throw MA profits to the ground.... a new kind of deed that will be restributed based to the UL owners based on some kind of real calculation having in mind the actual MU. That deeds could pay X% of all L decays in the universe or something related to the L sells... this way people who have invested big will still have the value on this tradeabe deeds and get a ROI.. yeah i know Uls are amazing and we all love to dont pay MU or struggle our head to buy weapons all the time but think that this could give the loot again more value not only ores, huntings things too (if they start to add to weps crafting oils and shits like that) and ofc will make crafting great again.

Forget me if this sound stupid

 

[thestupidone]

I know this will sound stupid but the L reroute could be what the game need to be as good as it was in the past and a way to dont destroy the people investment or throw MA profits to the ground.... a new kind of deed that will be restributed based to the UL owners based on some kind of real calculation having in mind the actual MU. That deeds could pay X% of all L decays in the universe or something related to the L sells... this way people who have invested big will still have the value on this tradeabe deeds and get a ROI.. yeah i know Uls are amazing and we all love to dont pay MU or struggle our head to buy weapons all the time but think that this could give the loot again more value not only ores, huntings things too (if they start to add to weps crafting oils and shits like that) and ofc will make crafting great again.

Forget me if this sound stupid

Well a complete remake of the entire economy might be a rough way to do it, and extremely unlikely.

Not saying it's stupid, just that MA would probably kill off 90% of their playerbase if they did this.