Make orders pay the offered price

Chiee

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this +1 really MA!

I made this stupid mistake today also. I guess i was lucky i just made mistake for 10 deeds and not hundreds.
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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this +1 really MA!

I made this stupid mistake today also. I guess i was lucky i just made mistake for 10 deeds and not hundreds.
Sorry for you Chiee, still no official response and no intention to change anything.

More PED into the hands of order zombies and out of the game. Good plan mindark.
 

Spawn

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Either you don't understand what I am proposing or I am having a hard time understanding you.

It is perfectly possible for orders to bid on items that don't have a low enough buyout (or no buyout at all), and also proceed to buyout on items that can be. And in that last scenario instead of paying whatever the seller has put for buyout just pay whatever the order was offering.

There is no issue with it, both are perfectly compatible and the situation about bidding or not would not change one bit.

The change I propose ONLY AFFECTS BUYOUT EVENTS. And would avoid most auction mistakes with minimal effort and changes from the development team.

If you don't like what I propose it's ok. But the reason you give makes no sense.

Maybe I suck at explaining things, we are going in circles.
I am really bad at math and English is not my first language.. could you explain what you are proposing with an example?
How the situation is now, and what happens with your changed proposal?

Say I want to buy 10 auds for 57 ped each, so I put 570 ped in the order system..
And an abuser sets 10 auds for 58 peds total (which looks like the highest order)

What happens now, and what happens with your proposal?
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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Say I want to buy 10 auds for 57 ped each, so I put 570 ped in the order system..
And an abuser sets 10 auds for 58 peds total (which looks like the highest order)
Current system

You would get 10 AUD for 58 PED total (5.8 PED each), your order would be filled and you would be refunded 512 PED (570 - 58). The guy selling has just lost 522 PED due to a mistake.



My proposal

You would pay 57 PED each, as you wanted to pay. And the seller would get 570 PED total, as you very well put into the order system. The guy selling has lost 10 PED due to a mistake.
 
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Chiee

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Current system

You would get 10 AUD for 58 PED total (5.8 PED each), your order would be filled and you would be refunded 512 PED (570 - 58). The guy selling has just lost 522 PED due to a mistake.



My proposal

You would pay 57 PED each, as you wanted to pay. And the seller would get 570 PED total, as you very well put into the order system. The guy selling has lost 10 PED due to a mistake.
Yes, what happened to me today was first option here :eyecrazy:
 

San

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Leaving trap doors like this in the system and then telling customers off who eventually fail to watch their step is not conducive to business. Just the first chapter of Henry Hazlitt's 'Economics in One Lesson' would explain to them why this is so. Probably not tought in management schools these days.

I suggested elsewhere to change the pricing display of investment deeds in the auction house to showing the percentage relative to their original nominal investment value, i.e. CLD in % of 1000 PED, AUD in % of 50 PED etc. They are stackable, but their price is not quoted like a stackable, which is counterintuitive and inevitably makes for trouble. The non-existent TT value should not be an obstacle you can't program around. Back then I just wanted to have listings sortable by actual markup, but it would also solve the problem here. It should be much harder to make a mistake when an out-of-bounds percentage stares in your face. Would this be a viable alternative to the suggestion above, considering possible side effects?
 

Aio

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Current system

You would get 10 AUD for 58 PED total (5.8 PED each), your order would be filled and you would be refunded 512 PED (570 - 58). The guy selling has just lost 522 PED due to a mistake.



My proposal

You would pay 57 PED each, as you wanted to pay. And the seller would get 570 PED total, as you very well put into the order system. The guy selling has lost 10 PED due to a mistake.
Fixes the system for deed mistakes, but breaks it for consumer orders.

Still have never understood these auction mistakes. People need to learn to double check...
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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Fixes the system for deed mistakes, but breaks it for consumer orders.

Still have never understood these auction mistakes. People need to learn to double check...
Please explain how. Also my solution is just a partial suggestion, I'm sure MA can come up with a much better alternative to the current piece of shit system.

Just do something, it wont fix itself...
 

Aio

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Please explain how. Also my solution is just a partial suggestion, I'm sure MA can come up with a much better alternative to the current piece of shit system.

Just do something, it wont fix itself...
Cos the order system as it is, mimics RL auction "book" orders, in that you set a maximum value you are willing to pay and if the bidding is lower than that you win, if it is higher you lose.

You're thinking purely in a buyout scenario - mainly because the EU system allows sellers to see maximum bids before they list their item for sale, which is a dumb inclusion.

The auction needs an overhaul but including moron-protection isn't really high on my list of desires.
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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It doesn't break anything then. You have more than enough examples in the first post to justify a change.

Also in real world auctions nobody goes "Woops just listed my shit for 0.0001% of their value, its gone forever now and someone got rich... instantly and forever"
 

RickEngland

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Please explain how. Also my solution is just a partial suggestion, I'm sure MA can come up with a much better alternative to the current piece of shit system.

Just do something, it wont fix itself...
The scary thing is MA decided not to help Helena with his 30K loss peds, and the buyer refused to pay back as far as I'm aware.

This current error has trumped that by a multiple of 4. So after Helena, it's given the green light to dodgy traders to just stick by their guns and not trade back.

I can see what Mary Mary was doing now (looking at pic). Listing deeds 1 by 1 for sale, then dragged in the stack instead. Then the order picked it up and auto sold.

Have you see the daily market stats on AUD now 4.79 per deed.

It's seriously sad when this happens. 12 thousand US dollars LOST for the click of a button. It's just wrong.

Rick

Rick
 

Mac Farmer

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Bump :wise: atleast 4 mistakes on compet deeds for last 24 hours , havend checked auds and clds

4 people that pay you mindark to provide us good and safety place to play a computer game
4 people that you spit in face
 

wizz

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it just got mentioned in another thread again.

So lets bump this!

:bump:
 
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yes wiz, MA needs to focus on making the auction more user friendly and "safer" (easier with orders).

And while we are at it, remake the UI of the auction! :wise:
 

theProphet

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i still disagree to make orders pay the offered pric, see my post on page #3

buyout is buyout. if you can't use it properly, better don't use it at all. and if you use it, always triplecheck.
 

Xen

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I think orders should be completely removed, not just because of this issue.
 

atomicstorm

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I think orders should be completely removed, not just because of this issue.
Pros and Cons. I think orders do more harm than good in the current setup.
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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i still disagree to make orders pay the offered pric, see my post on page #3

buyout is buyout. if you can't use it properly, better don't use it at all. and if you use it, always triplecheck.
Nice attitude, you must never make a single mistake.

As I said in previous pages of this thread, I've lost a couple of very good friends (and paying MA customers) after fucking up a sale to the auction orders and losing a bunch of money.

If you need reasons for this suggestion to exist search for "auction mistake" or something like that, this shit has been happening for years and continues to happen because instead of fixing and improving current systems all MA does is introduce new cash grab half-done crap.

I can't comprehend who would opose to fixing the order system besides for personal gain.

Bye.
 

theProphet

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dude i made many mistakes in my 12+ years, but i never blamed the order system for it. and actually you can't name a single reason, why someone using orders to buy should have a disadvantage over someone using the auctioneer to buy. this doesn't make any sense to me, sorry.

and yes, shit happens. i'm sorry for all people who went through that kinda stories, but life goes on. i hope they will be more careful in future, like i'm more careful now if i repair my stuff a bit drunk after latenight hunting sessions at the tradeterminal.
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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"It happened to me and I didn't complain" is not a valid argument unless we are 10 years old.

It's ok though, It's only a suggestion so everyone is free to disagree and share their view.

Good luck out there.
 

GoNi

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That would be a nice feature.

Beside that it would be nice, that orders don´t place bids as we have had that in the past!

Atm selling to orders sucks, because you never know if order already placed some bids, so you try to sell to order, create an auction just to notice your items don´t get sold although your buyout price + ammount would fit into existing order. This is bad for both seller and buyer, as at later point the sale (1 day) could end unsold while the bid placed by the order could be outbid (2nd day) and get nothing!

Add a button "sell to order", where you can sell a selected amount of the resource at exact order price.
For using the sell to order button there should also be a lower or even no auction fee, as fee is already paid by the player who placed the order.
Actually MA collects double fees, first when placing the order and second when someone sell to order (place an auction).
Its ok in cases where players just place an auction, not specially for an order and then order takes the buyout.

When orders don´t place bids any auction that runs out without starting bid, should go to an existing order.

When auctions with higher amount of stackables than ordered run out without starting bid, it would be nice if order takes part of that offer to fullfill the full order.
 

K_rupT

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Hello,

Please make the orders pay what they offer for BUYOUT instead of the seller's buyout.

With this very simple change most auction mistakes would be avoided. The buyer would still get a nice price, actually the one he is offering, instead of feasting on somebody else's mistake. Investors and the playerbase in general would gain confidence in the platform. It's a win-win situation.

I'm not asking for you to babysit anyone, but if you can put a solution with minimum effort why not do it? What exactly do you gain as a company for one guy to go broke and another one to probably withdraw?

Ludvig if you read this, kindly pass the message to the dev team.

Thank you very much.


References supporting this petition:
- Please Help 120k peds Mistake!
- Looking for Mr Infinity Infinity
- Looking for avatar: Lina Tora Luned
- Help, im a noob and made a bad order mistake on Calypso!!
- 30000 ped just gone ...... [Auction mistake]
- Selling AUD on AH at wrong mu.......... I'm a moron
- Made a mistake, does anyone know Dmitry stDem Sur?
- Looking for Fareios BigHunter Acheimes
- Stuffed up auction

... sadly the list is quite longer...
Heckin heck that is bad. Only quick fix I can think of is listing as singles not in stacks?
 

mastermesh

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just remove the damn auction and make all sales go via p2p or shops, and done.
 

Piotr

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just remove the damn auction and make all sales go via p2p or shops, and done.
Yea sure if u wanna scare away like half the playerbase and scamming to become more common (as ppl would have no baseline of stuff's MU)
 

GoNi

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Because the order system can be used for bidding on items as well, not just buyout.
So someone lists an item on AH with a SB of 101% and and no buyout.
Imho the worst mistake MA ever did to auction!

Old order system took only BO !

Back that days you could browse orders and sell 100k to a 100k order at the rate he offered.
Instant sale!

Today you see 100k order and place your offer at exact that rate and NO INSTANT SALE, simply because order placed some bids and don´t have the volume to pick your sale.

So stupid!
 

Nakor of Boreft

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Another way to change this whole thing would be to make the order system separate from the auction all together.
So to fulfill an order, you have to click on that order and then open a trade window and trade the items to them...kind of like how mission galatica works where you move your items into a window. It could then transfer Ped to your card for the order amount x number of items being fulfilled.
At first i thouught this was how the order system worked. It makes much more sense to me because i don't see why i have to pay auction fees when i don't want my item on the auction, but want to fulfill the order.

Separating both systems and removing the auction fees from the orders seems much more transparant/fair to me than how the system currently works. If i want to fulfil an order of oil at 102% with a small quantity(say 10 ped) i would be better off TTing it
 

theProphet

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still, noone was able to tell me why orders should work differently than auctions

let's assume someone put 10 AUDs up for the BO price of 1 instead of 10

A) an order gets it for BO price
B) a player snatches it for BO price

why should A pay more than B? this makes zero sense to me, sorry.

the simple fact is, a buyout value is a buyout value, so better triplecheck your values, or don't use BO at all.

again, no offense, and i feel sry for all victims.
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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let's assume someone put 10 AUDs up for the BO price of 1 instead of 10

A) an order gets it for BO price
B) a player snatches it for BO price

why should A pay more than B? this makes zero sense to me, sorry.
It makes sense if you are actually ready change your point of view, but I'm affraid your mind is set and this will be pointless... I'll try one last time:

Because A) the item never even made it to the offers listing. It was snatched automatically by the system. B) actually listed his item, which is what the auction is for. With A) auction fees were paid for no listing time at all.

Because A) the seller never had a chance to realise his mistake and pull the item out. With B) the chance to do this was very slim, but it was there !!

Because A) is afk/botter/scripter paradise hoping someone makes a mistake. In situation B) atleast the buyer had to be in front of the screen, with the game executing, and actually click the buy button.

Because current order style on A) renders the orders pretty much useless for avatars with legit consumer needs. Want to buy an EP blueprint to try your luck? oh you can't use orders, no chance. The second you post your order one of those bots (like Alex) will put a new order for 1 PEC more. Many items have this problem.

Because Orders and Auction listings should have never been the same, I know of no other game that requires you to actually make an auction listing just to fill up an order. It's retarded, difficult and error prone.


Pick one.

And by the way, this has nothing to do with orders auto-bidding. The only problem is with automatic split-second buyout of orders. If that is your objection then both systems can co-exist: Make this change to the BO mechanic, and leave auto-bidding only below BO.

Like I said I'm not wasting any more time. 3 years plus is enough patience for me, if MA wants to leave a mess like this then so be it. Meanwhile the victim list keeps growing ;)

Is this suggestion perfect? NO.
Do we need a change? YES.
Will the victim list keep growing? SADLY YES.

Unsubscribed and bye.
 
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