News: MindArk Signs Deal for Unreal Engine 5 - PRNewswire

Wistrel

Elite
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
2,773
Location
The Arctic (GMT)
Society
Entropia Pioneers
Avatar Name
Wistrel (Wisty) Chianti
I had hoped for this. In fact, last week I thought about it. Hope maybe not, more like it would be nice and wondering if it will ever happen. Big surprize!



It should be clearly and fundamentally understood... that Entropia will no more look like these videos post UE5 implementation, than it ever looked like this, post CE2 implementation:


Yes, I grant you that's CE3 engine with a mod but this is deliberate and further serves to illustrate the point that the existing engine can be patched and utilised for quite stunning results that are comparable with what can be achieved in UE5 certainly as far as the average layman can recognise or determine, and especially with the lack of fancy features in Entropia, that will no more be there after UE5, than they ever were in CE2.

If you need a solid irrefutable example, just look at tree felling in game. Despite "being able to chop down trees" being almost a headline feature of CE2 at launch, and Mindark actually having a legit game mechanic that involves tree felling, even after years of the mechanic being implemented, Mindark were never able to implement a physics based animation of trees falling in Entropia. To this day they simply vanish,... much like collecting a diamond in some sort of 1980s arcade game.

Thank about it
Wistrel
 
Last edited:

Sirhc

Elite
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Posts
4,494
Location
Temple of the Dark parts of the Mind
Society
Defiance
Avatar Name
Sirhc Xerogs Drakcah
Interesting. I look forward to seeing it pan out. I am sure there will be some conversion pains but I hope it improves the EU experience across the board.
 

RobBuona

Elite
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Posts
2,604
Location
United States
Society
Stockholm Syndrome
Avatar Name
Patrizia Pandemic Giano
It should be clearly and fundamentally understood... that Entropia will no more look like these videos post UE5 implementation, than it ever looked like this, post CE2 implementation:


Yes, I grant you that's CE3 engine with a mod but this is deliberate and further serves to illustrate the point that the existing engine can be patched and utilised for quite stunning results that are comparable with what can be achieved in UE5 certainly as far as the average layman can recognise or determine, and especially with the lack of fancy features in Entropia, that will no more be there after UE5, than they ever were in CE2.

If you need a solid irrefutable example, just look at tree felling in game. Despite "being able to chop down trees" being almost a headline feature of CE2 at launch, and Mindark actually having a legit game mechanic that involves tree felling, even after years of the mechanic being implemented, Mindark were never able to implement a physics based animation of trees falling in Entropia. To this day they simply vanish,... much like collecting a diamond in some sort of 1980s arcade game.

Thank about it
Wistrel
Again, I highly doubt the concern is visuals. It's more the fact that UE has much better support and a robust community. I'm willing to bet MA has had hundreds of issues they had a very hard to fixing due to CE. With UE, some of those headaches might be easier to cure.

Here's a thread from 2019 with some discussion:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/bw1e5k
The reply from "Skynet3d" is a good one.

Also consider this comment, referring to CE:

"It's got advantages and disadvantages, but compared to ue4 and unity, the lack of a strong indy community means that the tools are hard to use, and the is a lack of content for small teams to work with."

If UE then is better for small teams, it would work much better for planet partners. Maybe some of the dead planets would get new life.
 
Last edited:

Orion

Old Alpha
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Posts
950
Location
Germany
Society
Crimson Devils
Avatar Name
Eleria 'Orion' Starwind
I couldnt be LESS excited.

Nobody is here for the "stunning" grafix.
MA never understood to utilize the possibilities of a new engine (or more likely didnt spend the efforts to utilize them).
CryEngine 2 has been the best engine for years, but MA never utilized more than 10% of its possibilities.


What do you need a quantum computer for, if all you plan to do with it is playing Solitaire?

The last engine overhaul to CE2 in VU10 took 2 years from implementation to the point where you could say "It is stable and works and now it is for the first time better than it was before the implementation".
At no point the game looked "stunning" or "exciting" by the use of CE2.
In fact at the date of implementation it already looked 3-5 years retarded again, because MA didnt take advantage of ANY of the CE2 possibilities.
Playing the game then included weeks and months long phases of immense bugs, crashes, CTDs, stuck-in-environement and flaws, to the extend of being unplayable.
You will hate it, for months at least. Promised.

I will dig out this post again, when it is time... :-D
 
Last edited:

Evey

Elite
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Posts
3,067
Avatar Name
Eve Everglades
I couldnt be LESS excited.

Nobody is here for the "stunning" grafix.
MA never understood to utilize the possibilities of a new engine (or more likely didnt spend the efforts to utilize them).
CryEngine 2 has been the best engine for years, but MA never utilized more than 10% of its possibilities.


What do you need a quantum computer for, if all you plan to do with it is playing Solitaire?

The last engine overhaul to CE2 in VU10 took 2 years from implementation to the point where you could say "It is stable and works and now it is for the first time better than it was before the implementation".
At no point the game looked "stunning" or "exciting" by the use of CE2.
In fact at the date of implementation it already looked 3-5 years retarded again, because MA didnt take advantage of ANY of the CE2 possibilities.
Playing the game then included weeks and months long phases of immense bugs, crashes, CTDs, stuck-in-environement and flaws, to the extend of being unplayable.
You will hate it, for months at least. Promised.

I will dig out this post again, when it is time... :-D
This is one the biggest misconceptions in this game... that the graphics don't matter. They do matter, A LOT, it's a video game... It is one of the reasons for which we can't have nice(er) things, because the target audience is so small. Most of us have tried to show the game to our friends and they said: wth is this ugly thing? And it is kinda ugly when you look at these gaming conventions these days and see the potential of technology of today.

Upgrading graphics would, in long term, increase the target audience and expand it to more age groups, platforms maybe, who knows.... but it's definitely a strong step in the future, it proves the commitment to the game and its future...

The fact that the current player base is not that into the graphics, is not true entirely, players come from all sorts of graphic games and enjoy a variety of the new games and also it's a problem that this could be true for a big part of the community, it means the game has a stable legacy core of players but it always need new ones. We need new ones to have competition, a more stable economy, more items, hopefully more accessible for everyone.. the benefits of a much wider active playerbase are so many and it would also increase the revenue which can mean bigger team, more content, faster fixes etc etc.

Even if it will be a bumpy road after the implementation, I only see benefits in this move.
Yeah I miss too the old PE, but not that much that I would instantly feel like rejecting any change, the game has to adapt to the market so it can survive and that is much more important.
 

Wistrel

Elite
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
2,773
Location
The Arctic (GMT)
Society
Entropia Pioneers
Avatar Name
Wistrel (Wisty) Chianti
Again, I highly doubt the concern is visuals. It's more the fact that UE has much better support and a robust community. I'm willing to bet MA has had hundreds of issues they had a very hard to fixing due to CE. With UE, some of those headaches might be easier to cure.

Here's a thread from 2019 with some discussion:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/bw1e5k
The reply from "Skynet3d" is a good one.

Also consider this comment, referring to CE:

"It's got advantages and disadvantages, but compared to ue4 and unity, the lack of a strong indy community means that the tools are hard to use, and the is a lack of content for small teams to work with."

If UE then is better for small teams, it would work much better for planet partners. Maybe some of the dead planets would get new life.

I take your point that UE and Unity have been more broadly adopted not only by indie community but also the bigger league end and indeed that there is a much better asset store etc and, because of the adoption, more info widely available to the average googler. CE2 had a different sales model though. I'm sure, as a paying customer, MA got plenty of support with it. Crytek are still going and, as you say, the engine is still in development. You may have a point that it may work out better for the smaller planet partner dev teams going forward if the tools are easier to use but I will say this, while I've only made forests and landscapes/islands and the likes in CE2, I was a total noob when I did it and found it pretty intuitive/easy to use. I liked it better than Unity in fact when I briefly dabbled in that. Now while I realise that chucking together a little island in CE2 or making fun little VR experiments in Unity is a LONG way from developing a game, it was at least, a start.

This said... with MA's new found interest in getting the artists to talk about what they do (finally) it would be really interesting to hear them make comment on what tools they specifically like about UE5 as compared to their equivalent in CE2.
 

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
2,144
This really does whack my motivation quite a bit.
Firstly, I will definitely need better hardware, and if I have to consume 100s of W instead of 12W then I simply won't want to stand at a crafting machine or do any kind of low action action. I admit I'm more a mechanics than graphics person, so I'm not going to want my harvested trees to go through zillions of pixel-crunching steps whilst crashing to the ground. I just want to relax, cut, 8 zings and the tree disappears...

If I'm forced to make my PC do more work, then I'm the sort of person who will want to compete with the new framerate, so driving or piloting more accurately, build up my new building more carefully to reflect the graphics capability etc.. I am 100% certain EU will not be able to deliver stuff like this anywhere close to as well as options already out there (if we are forced to have hardware that the competition runs on).

Yes I am quite possibly way more 'autistic' or 'principled' or whatever than humanity at large, but EU players ARE a weird bunch, let's admit it! I actually hold my hand to the fan outlet of my lappy occassionally to enjoy the really low heat output. I'm not saying I can't be converted to a sim-racing gaming laptop megafan, but I can't see myself on a gaming laptop ONLY playing EU. Just sayin' MA, just sayin' as one voice, one vote.
 

Temptress

Alpha
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Posts
519
Location
'Merica
Society
CRIMSON DEVILS
Avatar Name
Temptress Hakalugi Ripper
“When patterns are broken, new worlds emerge.”
 

Joat

Elite
Joined
Oct 30, 2005
Posts
4,260
Society
M.I.S
It can be a bit hard to give specs for the PC when using UE5 since the engine isn't fully released yet. :p
I have a quite moderate PC atm and I run UE5-EA quite easy even when loading heavy scenes.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2020
Posts
351
Location
Us n A is very nice
Society
Never will I have Sock
Avatar Name
Angela Draniie Cloud
Give me Item dropping. The UI update, chat bubbles in local and ground graphics that don't dissipate constantly and I'm exciting.

The requirements will put a fair few people out of the game requiring them to shell out a 400+ dollar laptop/ desktop.
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2020
Posts
351
Location
Us n A is very nice
Society
Never will I have Sock
Avatar Name
Angela Draniie Cloud
but we are also talking EASILY multiple years down the road obviously.
 

Sulje

Old Alpha
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Posts
836
Location
Frankfurt, Germany
Society
The Prodigy
Avatar Name
Sulje
This is one the biggest misconceptions in this game... that the graphics don't matter. They do matter, A LOT, it's a video game... It is one of the reasons for which we can't have nice(er) things, because the target audience is so small. Most of us have tried to show the game to our friends and they said: wth is this ugly thing? And it is kinda ugly when you look at these gaming conventions these days and see the potential of technology of today.

Upgrading graphics would, in long term, increase the target audience and expand it to more age groups, platforms maybe, who knows.... but it's definitely a strong step in the future, it proves the commitment to the game and its future...

The fact that the current player base is not that into the graphics, is not true entirely, players come from all sorts of graphic games and enjoy a variety of the new games and also it's a problem that this could be true for a big part of the community, it means the game has a stable legacy core of players but it always need new ones. We need new ones to have competition, a more stable economy, more items, hopefully more accessible for everyone.. the benefits of a much wider active playerbase are so many and it would also increase the revenue which can mean bigger team, more content, faster fixes etc etc.

Even if it will be a bumpy road after the implementation, I only see benefits in this move.
Yeah I miss too the old PE, but not that much that I would instantly feel like rejecting any change, the game has to adapt to the market so it can survive and that is much more important.
Someone once said: "But we don't need younger players who is attracted to only good graphics, and also they are lazy."

Awesome EU community :))

+1 for the website upgrade, shouldn't be that expensive or hard to do at this point.
 

Wistrel

Elite
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
2,773
Location
The Arctic (GMT)
Society
Entropia Pioneers
Avatar Name
Wistrel (Wisty) Chianti
This is one the biggest misconceptions in this game... that the graphics don't matter. They do matter, A LOT, it's a video game... It is one of the reasons for which we can't have nice(er) things, because the target audience is so small. Most of us have tried to show the game to our friends and they said: wth is this ugly thing? And it is kinda ugly when you look at these gaming conventions these days and see the potential of technology of today.

Upgrading graphics would, in long term, increase the target audience and expand it to more age groups, platforms maybe, who knows.... but it's definitely a strong step in the future, it proves the commitment to the game and its future...

The fact that the current player base is not that into the graphics, is not true entirely, players come from all sorts of graphic games and enjoy a variety of the new games and also it's a problem that this could be true for a big part of the community, it means the game has a stable legacy core of players but it always need new ones. We need new ones to have competition, a more stable economy, more items, hopefully more accessible for everyone.. the benefits of a much wider active playerbase are so many and it would also increase the revenue which can mean bigger team, more content, faster fixes etc etc.

Even if it will be a bumpy road after the implementation, I only see benefits in this move.
Yeah I miss too the old PE, but not that much that I would instantly feel like rejecting any change, the game has to adapt to the market so it can survive and that is much more important.

Yes it does demo a commitment to the future for sure and I'm totally with the notion that CE, while a very capable engine, isn't "keeping up with the Jones'" (at least in terms of it marketing to indie/casual developers) and as such, one wonders about its future. Similarly yes graphics are indeed important but I think the reason some folks are put off by Entropia's current graphics is not because it uses an older version of a still very current engine, but because it uses it so poorly. Moving to UE would do nothing to fix the impression of outsiders of the game without time/expertise invested in modernising the assets - for example like how many of the mobs have been modernised at least in terms of model/skin (if not animation/programming) in recent years. The graphics will likely be no better post UE migration than they were post CE2 migration... in fact... I'd actually go as far as to say that the graphics post CE2 implementation were quite a major step up from Gamebryo, even without updating all the assets. With the move to UE, I doubt the differences will be anywhere near as apparent at least to the average person. We may even see some degradation. For example, I believe the frosting effect on TP's in the snowy areas is a feature of CryEngine. There's probably a similar effect available for UE but it might not be guaranteed.

As for only seeing benefits, I see some benefits for sure but mostly it just looks like at attempt to side step the problem which is that fundamentally we have a very old and un-evenly edited world, that needs a decent investment in artists/animators/programmers to fix up to bring it up to date with modern graphical standards, not a new engine purchase.
 

MsPudding

Elite
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Posts
3,324
Location
Salt Lake City, USA
Avatar Name
Rachel MsPudding Hawkins
Read the news last night before heading to bed, woke up to reflect on it some more. I'm glad this team at MindArk is forward thinking. This is the type of future investment and future outlook we need.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I believe the current team we have running the show at MA HQ is one of the best we've had. They continually demonstrate that their interest and focus is Entropia Universe. This team has continually worked to reduce bugs, improve in game features, the UI, music & sound elements paired with engaging new missions, working to build and improve on what we have.

UE5 is the right choice. I'm so glad to hear this is the engine we're migrating to.

As others have pointed out, this is no small task. There will be plenty of challenges and obstacles along the way. Migration to the new engine will likely take quite some time and require many members of our community to upgrade their machines. I like Granny's idea about being patient with those that may not have the means or ability to upgrade right away, suspending the account login requirement seems more than equitable, necessary.

Graphics are important, as others have said. I also agree with the sentiment expressed here that gameplay is even more important.

I'm excited to follow the engine migration process. Wishing you you guys as seamless of a transition as is possible. I'm sure you're all celebrating the news today, but also realizing the mountain ahead of you that's left to climb. Looking forward to EU's future, as this is a game I plan on playing for the next 20+ years!
 

ZippO

Elite
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Posts
4,128
Location
Delta Junction - AlaskA
Society
cB | Crimson Blades
Avatar Name
Ford Zippo LincolnMercury
I think it is a double edged sword. I do think it is possible that MA tries to secure funding for a much bigger team however. Perhaps a public IPO on a smaller exchange. I think some have already showed the evidence that this may be true.
 

Evey

Elite
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Posts
3,067
Avatar Name
Eve Everglades
mostly it just looks like at attempt to side step the problem which is that fundamentally we have a very old and un-evenly edited world, that needs a decent investment in artists/animators/programmers to fix up to bring it up to date with modern graphical standards, not a new engine purchase.
I think exactly that is the problem, the old engine. There's just too much to fix and artists/animators/programmers with experience on that engine may be a lot harder to find.
I am 100% sure each of us will have at least one major thing that we won't like in comparison with the old engine, but I am also sure it will be worth it, after things become stable.

I do hope to see the collision of mobs fixed once and for all and .. quire a few other annoying bugs...
 

Wistrel

Elite
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
2,773
Location
The Arctic (GMT)
Society
Entropia Pioneers
Avatar Name
Wistrel (Wisty) Chianti
I'm not going to want my harvested trees to go through zillions of pixel-crunching steps whilst crashing to the ground. I just want to relax, cut, 8 zings and the tree disappears...

I hate you ;)

Hehe just kidding but clearly you are my "tree nemesis" (take that in a jokey friendly kinda way) as, if I'm going to chop down a tree in game, I want a proper animation of me using my dual circular saw ON the tree, rather than just floating ineffectively in mid air like it was animated by someone who had a "that'll do" attitude. Yup, call me crazy but I want teh realism.

This said though I do understand that we are all different and everyone gets a different thing out of Entropia. For me, I love roaming the wilderness, the sci-fi setting and the exploration but I totally get that for many (probably the major majority) all people want to do is stand somewhere and churn the peds. And if there is pesky interaction or animations going on I can totally see the view point that this simply "gets in the way", "extends the play time" or is quite simply a waste of computer power Watts. I do wonder if MA would do well to just put out an API so folks can program their own interfaces for things like crafting etc that wouldn't require them to actually log in and melt graphics cards over.

That may sound like a joke but I'm actually serious. There are probably tons of people who want to play, but only want to go into the game world occasionally to do something social or hunt or something. MA could probably very likely even put out an API for a 2D web interface or things like mining. They just need to ensure you can move in the usual way/speed and can be attacked by mobs. OK that is probably taking the idea a bit too far but certainly they already did the crafting thing in the Entropia Mobile app so it isn't totally out there that they might make more things "externally available" to save on actually being in game. Chat/trade might be a good one for example.
 

Wistrel

Elite
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
2,773
Location
The Arctic (GMT)
Society
Entropia Pioneers
Avatar Name
Wistrel (Wisty) Chianti
+1 for the website upgrade, shouldn't be that expensive or hard to do at this point.

What's wrong with the website? I always thought it looked quite nice...?
 

Wistrel

Elite
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
2,773
Location
The Arctic (GMT)
Society
Entropia Pioneers
Avatar Name
Wistrel (Wisty) Chianti
I think it is a double edged sword. I do think it is possible that MA tries to secure funding for a much bigger team however. Perhaps a public IPO on a smaller exchange. I think some have already showed the evidence that this may be true.

Maybe... an ICO...? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
 

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
2,144
you are my "tree nemesis" (take that in a jokey friendly kinda way)
Yes :). As time is a major factor in people's activities, I have also wondered how both ends of the desire spectrum can share the same activity on an even footing. Crafting at about 8 per minute seems fine for having graphics or not having them, for example, but otherwise no advantage/disadvantage.
 
Top