Mining for profit

[Leeloo Miner]

You can play Entropia in different ways, but I chose to go for the win, and from my experience mining is definitely one of them.
A little common sense, knowing how the economy works and patience can take you a long way.

But first a little explanation about my ava.
Started playing together with my BF in 2002 and then already to mine. Years went by, we broke up but I kept playing with the same ava we used.
Then "destiny" struck, because the ava was on my ex's name who, as it turned out, had passed away, so that ava was a thing of the past.
But because I have so many friends here, loved mining, I decided to make a new ava and come back.

How do I mine.
I have decided to mine goal missions (but not daily's) and at the moment I am working on 1K Alicenies.
So I will keep mining in the same place until I complete that mission.
Once I have it, the last enmatter unlocks will be released.

Mining gear
Which finder(s) I use ... let's say I go for diversity .... and I use 21 different finders at the moment, L and UL
EDIT 10/9/2023 : Also using TM 5 now so 22 dif finders now
Extractors : Demonic excavator (but not for oil/nexus) - Exhumer MK-1
EDIT : in case of emergency RE-101
EDIT : Refiner : Imperium resourse refiner B1

Skils
Do skills matter? NO
No matter what finder (if maxed) you use at any level, the results stay the same.
Any finder will give you 1% skills no matter the dropcost. Tested for enm only for now.

Amps
Amps are not used, nor are pre-amped finders.

Sales of resources and economics
In this part of Entropia it is decided how much profit or loss you will make.
ALL prices go up and down regarding availability, so I stock up if needed and try to sell as high as possible for the highest profit.
This means that I wait until my resources can only sell at a minimum fixed price determined by me and higher if possible, but never lower.
Also, your return is based on your avatar's profit/loss in TT, so sell cheap and cut your own profit.

EDIT : My mining goals besides fun :
1) Making profit
2) Doing planet missions (no dailies)
3) Checking different finders

That's about it for now.
Time for some results.

 

[Leeloo Miner]

Mission 1K Alicenies @ 489/1K

Cost (all decay/MU included) 3246 Ped
Netto TT return 3292 Ped : 101,40%
After sales netto (EDIT : so with % and minus fee) 3832 Ped : 118,04%
Profit/Loss so far : 586 Ped

 

[The Great Adventurer]

Why do the missions that give skills if skills do not matter?

What are the 21 finders you're currently using and why?

How long do you play each day?

How do you determine each session (run)?

What size bankroll is sufficient in order to time your sales for the cyclical market trends?

 

[Leeloo Miner]

Why do the missions that give skills if skills do not matter?

What are the 21 finders you're currently using and why?

How long do you play each day?

How do you determine each session (run)?

What size bankroll is sufficient in order to time your sales for the cyclical market trends?

Why do the missions that give skills if skills do not matter?
I'm not doing missions for the skills, just as a goal.
Cause I'm also stocking up and wait for the highest %, mining the same thing over and over gives less different resources in my inventory.

What are the 21 finders you're currently using and why?
Any finder between MD-10 and TM5 for the moment.
Why I used them ... Good question, let's say I'm trying to find out something

How long do you play each day?
I'm online whole day

How do you determine each session (run)?
Each run is determined by the sales profit I made the day('s) before

What size bankroll is sufficient in order to time your sales for the cyclical market trends?
I'm using a 5 digit bankroll

 

[John uncguy43 Williams]

Mission 1K Alicenies @ 489/1K

Cost (all decay/MU included) 3246 Ped
Netto TT return 3292 Ped : 101,40%
After sales (so with %) 3832 Ped : 118,04%
Profit/Loss so far : 586 Ped

Are you including the cost of auction fees in your P&L figures? Even if you sell small stacks at higher %s, the effective MU/profit comes down substantially and requires a far greater time input.

 

[Leeloo Miner]

Are you including the cost of auction fees in your P&L figures? Even if you sell small stacks at higher %s, the effective MU/profit comes down substantially and requires a far greater time input.

Yes, the 'After sales' is the netto price
Since I'm stocking and wait till some % go up again, time input doesn't matter, but the ped amount does.

 

[Bamb00cha]

Good luck!

 

[Leeloo Miner]

Today I reached the 500/1K alic mission.
An update, also to show what you find with all those different finders and why I still think that what you find has to do with the drop cost + availability.
So what finder you use is not important IMO
And I already hear people saying wow ... that amount of oil ...
At times I sell more than I can mine and believe it or not...at 109% net!!! Just use your brains
From now on I'll also use the TM5 also

Cost (all decay/MU included) 3350 Ped
Netto TT return 3383 Ped : 100,98%
After sales netto (so with % and minus fee) 3943 Ped : 117,69%
Profit/Loss so far : 593 Ped

Profit/loss Alic Cave sap Garcen Magerian Nexus Oil Typo Vegetation 39,90 MD-10 14,33% 1,78% 6,08% 4,34% 6,69% 62,56% 4,53% 0,00% -3,87 Demonic 14,74% 0,88% 3,27% 3,53% 14,79% 55,87% 6,35% 0,00% 27,07 TM 1 13,68% 0,00% 5,55% 0,00% 7,81% 64,09% 8,91% 0,00% 5,83 F-101 12,81% 0,64% 6,39% 7,39% 10,33% 55,38% 6,24% 0,00% -9,98 Ziplex 5 11,22% 3,85% 1,68% 5,92% 4,61% 61,04% 11,25% 0,00% -12,24 Sabad 2 15,86% 5,13% 1,95% 0,99% 5,33% 53,88% 16,18% 0,00% 69,46 F-102 46,30% 1,30% 1,30% 3,85% 7,94% 32,57% 6,93% 0,00% 88,98 F-103 16,20% 3,12% 4,28% 4,41% 6,91% 45,20% 20,43% 0,00% 48,62 Ziplex 10 11,21% 4,42% 6,43% 4,12% 12,04% 53,02% 7,66% 0,62% 26,53 TM2 15,46% 2,70% 4,41% 2,22% 11,99% 56,63% 6,45% 0,00% 25,06 F-104 11,21% 4,42% 6,43% 4,12% 12,04% 53,02% 7,66% 0,62% 28,67 F-211 17,70% 1,72% 1,92% 5,76% 8,04% 52,91% 11,91% 0,00% 113,65 Ziplex 15 6,67% 3,21% 4,85% 2,60% 4,87% 58,98% 20,39% 0,00% 59,46 F-105 14,49% 2,19% 5,03% 3,77% 9,74% 56,71% 8,54% 0,00% -5,43 Ziplex 20 6,16% 0,00% 4,23% 3,69% 14,04% 55,17% 15,52% 0,00% 7,02 F-212 22,89% 4,29% 6,25% 9,36% 11,23% 41,78% 3,30% 0,00% -9,48 Ziplex 25 11,28% 0,00% 3,14% 5,13% 13,86% 58,84% 6,54% 0,00% -26,79 F-213 23,40% 2,97% 2,57% 7,62% 7,82% 40,27% 12,58% 1,22% 97,04 TM 3 5,54% 2,26% 5,67% 3,69% 25,62% 24,99% 33,15% 0,84% 24,08 Emine 9,72% 3,57% 6,24% 6,54% 8,55% 54,21% 8,83% 2,09% -0,98 TM 4 6,58% 0,00% 4,59% 13,70% 12,78% 56,19% 2,63% 2,63% 0,00 TM-5 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0!

 

[Thark]

Just out of curiosity, was your former char a dedicated colorer? Or is leeloo some name from some game/movie/music thing that Im not aware of? If you were, hiho

Second thing, 4k in tt seems a little low for 2 decimal points if you tested that many finders throughout, or is that 4k for each? Not having done the math, I wouldnt be surprised if even just one sigma means 1, or even 2 full % points. Not disputing your findings tho, quite the opposite actually, I recently went from using unamped terramaster 6 down to f105 since it provides better MU in some area I really like to frequent. And using L30s cut it down to 1/4.

TM6 TT spend	TM 6 est. MU	TM6 est. profit	L30 TT spend	L30 avg MU	TM6 est. profit
1935,49​	115,77%​	305,22​	1855,05​	104,81%​	89,3009​

granted this isn't caly mining! So maybe planet partners have different thresholds or my area is/was just weird or maybe I messed up somehow, but it already felt off after just a few runs. Im still figuring out my mining spreadsheet but right now it does indicate that my area doesnt like even a little amping.

So yeah, I second trying different finders for your favorite spots.

thirdly, could I borrow MD-10 for a week when you arent using it? I wanna try very shallow mining without going rookie.

And lastly... wanna buy my oil for 105%?

cheers

 

[Leeloo Miner]

Tx for the reply and to answer your first question yes My former ava was also a colorer.

Tested 4K in totall so far, but not used all those finders from the beginning cause some are harder to get than others or insane high %
The high % is the reason I didn't include the TK-120 / TK-220.

For me the stunning thing is that all F-finders are in profit, but in overall general mining, without amps is very stable imo.

Yes, this is caly mining.

Any results with the F-105 yet?
Wow huge dif between the TM6 and the L30 !!!
So it seems it's important to test dif finders indeed.

The MD-10 (got it at T2 for now) and Demonic are both 204 depth.
Just contact me in game, or I can sell you a Demonic MK-I for 134,43% so 6,39ped cause I craft those myself.

And lastly ... but no ty

 

[sorinel89]

Just out of curiosity, was your former char a dedicated colorer? Or is leeloo some name from some game/movie/music thing that Im not aware of? If you were, hiho

Second thing, 4k in tt seems a little low for 2 decimal points if you tested that many finders throughout, or is that 4k for each? Not having done the math, I wouldnt be surprised if even just one sigma means 1, or even 2 full % points. Not disputing your findings tho, quite the opposite actually, I recently went from using unamped terramaster 6 down to f105 since it provides better MU in some area I really like to frequent. And using L30s cut it down to 1/4.

TM6 TT spend	TM 6 est. MU	TM6 est. profit	L30 TT spend	L30 avg MU	TM6 est. profit
1935,49​	115,77%​	305,22​	1855,05​	104,81%​	89,3009​

granted this isn't caly mining! So maybe planet partners have different thresholds or my area is/was just weird or maybe I messed up somehow, but it already felt off after just a few runs. Im still figuring out my mining spreadsheet but right now it does indicate that my area doesnt like even a little amping.

So yeah, I second trying different finders for your favorite spots.

thirdly, could I borrow MD-10 for a week when you arent using it? I wanna try very shallow mining without going rookie.

And lastly... wanna buy my oil for 105%?

cheers

Leeloo is the name of the main character in the film "The Fifth Element", I absolutely loved that film when I was a kid and also Mila Jovovich of course "eyebrows, eyebrows".

 

[M Rufen Power]

Greatest mining thread.

 

[Leeloo Miner]

I recently went from using unamped terramaster 6 down to f105 since it provides better MU in some area I really like to frequent. And using L30s cut it down to 1/4.

TM6 TT spend	TM 6 est. MU	TM6 est. profit	L30 TT spend	L30 avg MU	TM6 est. profit
1935,49​	115,77%​	305,22​	1855,05​	104,81%​	89,3009​

With the amp/pre-amped you will indeed find much less with MU or certain resources do not get through the amp because they are blocked.

There is a big difference between un-amped mining and amped mining.

Where with amped you go purely for the volume, while with un-amped you go for MU.

In the long term I think you are better off without an amp, which is why I opt for un-amped

 

[John uncguy43 Williams]

With the amp/pre-amped you will indeed find much less with MU or certain resources do not get through the amp because they are blocked.

There is a big difference between un-amped mining and amped mining.

Where with amped you go purely for the volume, while with un-amped you go for MU.

In the long term I think you are better off without an amp, which is why I opt for un-amped

It's somewhat more nuanced than this. Yes, amping/using pre-amped finders does mitigate finding some resources that you would find otherwise without amping. However, it doesn't stop you from finding all resource types.

For instance, I mine amped for Quantium and Alternative. Quantium currently sells for 135-145%. Ordinarily, I receive weighted MU from each run of between 115-125%. I can cycle about 5k per 3 days. That works out to a profit of 9.25% on 95% TT return in worst-case scenarios and 18.75% profit in best-case scenarios. Said another way, that amounts to making ~460 - 940 PED in profit per 3 days. On average, I play around 3 hrs/day.

Meanwhile, someone like Leeloo who mines slower will probably get much higher average MU, say 125-140% MU. But she can probably only cycle 5k once per week or less (unless she plays the game nonstop, which most of us don't have time to do). So, that would work out to ~940 - 1,650 PED profit per 7 days.

Neither way is right or wrong, better or worse. But on a time-adjusted basis, amping is the way to go if you can buy amps at a reasonable price and find resources that don't have artificial caps on them with good MU.

Note - All this is subject to change at any time.

 

[Alina]

Well if you have the patience its fine but i never mined without amp since they added them, my main problem the profit is really capped and when pyrite was 250% i had the opportunity to make 25-30k monthly with amps or same value at aegis with 150-160% but a lot better avg %.

 

[San]

Well if you have the patience its fine but i never mined without amp since they added them, my main problem the profit is really capped and when pyrite was 250% i had the opportunity to make 25-30k monthly with amps or same value at aegis with 150-160% but a lot better avg %.

Mining in pvp is a different beast and not comparable imo. You are rewarded for taking a risk and/or investing in gear and skills to handle attacks. Such investments are quite substantial and you need to include at least the opportunity cost for the money tied down in your calculation, plus the potential risk of negative price development if you plan to sell it again in the future. The amounts needed upfront are also not for everyone.

 

[Alina]

Mining in pvp is a different beast and not comparable imo. You are rewarded for taking a risk and/or investing in gear and skills to handle attacks. Such investments are quite substantial and you need to include at least the opportunity cost for the money tied down in your calculation, plus the potential risk of negative price development if you plan to sell it again in the future. The amounts needed upfront are also not for everyone.

well in my post when i mention pyrite at 250% was actually in non lootable pvp, it was ashi, i mined there 3 months only because noobs made pyrite only 140-150%

 

[San]

well in my post when i mention pyrite at 250% was actually in non lootable pvp, it was ashi, i mined there 3 months only because noobs made pyrite only 140-150%

Ok, it was because you mentioned Aegis. Even in non-lootable you need to prepare for some mob attacks (L50 Atrox last time I looked) and potential griefing when excavating, although the latter might be handled by support (I have no experience with that). A number of miners aren't into hunting at all.

 

[Thark]

Leeloo is the name of the main character in the film "The Fifth Element", I absolutely loved that film when I was a kid and also Mila Jovovich of course "eyebrows, eyebrows".

ohhh of course! How could I forget! Yeah I love that film too! matter of fact... gonna watch it again right now! Thx m8, you saved my hung over morning xD

on the subject tho, yeah ofc amps are a means to cycle more and D-Class and alternative used to be great, havent checked my old spots but sounds like it still is. I was just so surprised, that even that 1ped per drop preamped finder, affected the composition so much, i wasnt expecting that.

cheers

 

[Gopher]

From my time mining, the most restricted resources with amps are ofc the really rare ones like redulite, ruga, triden, but also some of the tiering resources. Way harder to hit lumis/henren/etc... with a big amp. However, unamped mining some of these resources tends to give you less than if you put a small amp due to the tt value of the resource. I have gotten more % of these resources with a lvl 2 amp than unamped just because of the bigger tt value things like lumis/solis/henren/cave sap have.

 

[Leeloo Miner]

From my time mining, the most restricted resources with amps are ofc the really rare ones like redulite, ruga, triden, but also some of the tiering resources. Way harder to hit lumis/henren/etc... with a big amp. However, unamped mining some of these resources tends to give you less than if you put a small amp due to the tt value of the resource. I have gotten more % of these resources with a lvl 2 amp than unamped just because of the bigger tt value things like lumis/solis/henren/cave sap have.

Did you try different finders also?

Cause using finders with a higher decay might change the outcome of getting more of those resources, I'm thinking TM's now.

 

[Gopher]

Did you try different finders also?

Cause using finders with a higher decay might change the outcome of getting more of those resources, I'm thinking TM's now.

I did, but for a very short time. Currently using a f105 + 2 depth enhancers to skill to a dsec l30/ tm 5. Don't have enough experience with higher decay finders to find out that kind of info atm. Don't feel like spending extra MU on a L finder that has same depth/ close to the same depth as the UL equivalent.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

I speculate that the resource distribution is based on location, depth, drop cost and chance (similar to hunting hit chance, crit chance, block chance, etc). At certain locations, depths and cost you have a percentage chance to find x resources. As you play with location, depth and cost you either increase or decrease your percentage chance of finding specific resources, at least from my anecdotal findings. I'm unsure if it's set by server or specific nodes within servers.

A quick example (not actual data):

0-250m + 0-1ped = 2% chance to find rare, 1% epic, 0.5% mythic and 0.25% legendary resources found at that location and depth
0-250m + 1-2ped = 1% chance...
250-500m + 0-1ped = 2% chance...
250-500m + 1-2ped = 1% chance...
etc...

There's a sweet spot for depth and cost input to maximize your chances at finding the rare, epic, mythic and legendary resources. Kind of like income tax brackets where to maximize your income vs tax you pay. Sometimes that raise your boss gives you costs you more in tax thus negating most of the raise because you were pushed into a higher tax bracket.

I believe it's still possible to HOF on legendary resources but the chance of it happening are likely 0.0000001%, so low that it appears impossible.

Again, it's just anecdotal speculation.

 

[Thark]

Any results with the F-105 yet?.

And lastly ... but no ty

still doing that right now, I mine sloooooow, I'll add the numbers here when I reach 2kish ped mined. I don't usually keep track that closely for individual mu stuffs but it felt so different, that I started noting it down. I'll let y'all know.

lastly: haha crap! guess I'll have to start using my head, tho I have no idea how

 

[Leeloo Miner]

still doing that right now, I mine sloooooow, I'll add the numbers here when I reach 2kish ped mined. I don't usually keep track that closely for individual mu stuffs but it felt so different, that I started noting it down. I'll let y'all know.

lastly: haha crap! guess I'll have to start using my head, tho I have no idea how

I'm also a very slow miner and never in a rush.
This is because no matter how many peds you have, at some point you need to wait for sales or (like most do) TT some or depo (again), so you are cutting into your own pedcard.

Checking out finders is the reason I started this thread + making some profit ofc so I'm looking forward to it

I also found it interesting what the dif was between your TM6 an L30 runs

 

[Leeloo Miner]

Why testing finders?

While most go as deep as possible for the hard to get stuff, this also has disadvantages.
Every miner has of course already experienced that you also mine a lot of resources that hardly have MU and that hardly go up and down.
By testing different finders, I discovered that you can avoid those resources, except oil.
A little test some time ago I did for energized crystal is below.
As soon as you use a F-103 (depth 363,2), or higher you also get energized crystal, so that together with oil/edres gives you about 50% TT return, so here the MU of especially putty but also for lyta and sweetstuff is very important.
Just thinking out of the box here

Edres Energized Lyta Oil Putty Sweet MD-10 13,99% 0,00% 10,62% 63,91% 1,23% 10,24% MD-10+1 F-101 24,43% 0,00% 16,28% 35,85% 8,18% 6,12% F-102 17,46% 0,00% 16,78% 32,19% 7,93% 6,83% F-103 20,36% 0,54% 21,89% 37,38% 5,62% 6,07% F-104 15,60% 22,89% 15,76% 33,53% 10,67% 1,56% F-104+1 F-103+4 F-104+2 F-105 24,87% 5,79% 14,03% 21,50% 16,03% 8,21% F104+3 F-105+1 13,17% 6,08% 34,96% 19,75% 11,85% 6,76% F-105+2 23,60% 18,66% 21,40% 14,15% 8,52% 8,62% F-105+3 F-105+4 F-105+5 F-105+6

 

[PreyNaika]

I understand now why fakenews is illegal

 

[Leeloo Miner]

Friday again, so weekly update

Cost (all decay/MU included) 3669 Ped
Netto TT return 3383 Ped : 99,95%
After sales netto (so with % and minus fee) 3943 Ped : 117,07%
Profit/Loss so far : 626 Ped

Very slow sales cause most is to low % to sell so less mining ...

1 thing is getting clear, vegetation comes mostly from finders going deeper.

Profit/loss Alic Cave sap Garcen Magerian Nexus Oil Typo Vegetation 38,90 MD-10 14,33% 1,78% 6,05% 4,34% 6,69% 62,56% 4,53% 0,00% -3,87 Demonic 14,74% 0,88% 3,27% 3,53% 14,79% 55,87% 6,35% 0,00% 27,07 TM 1 13,68% 0,00% 5,55% 0,00% 7,81% 64,09% 8,91% 0,00% 5,83 F-101 12,81% 0,64% 6,39% 7,39% 10,33% 55,38% 6,24% 0,00% -9,98 Ziplex 5 11,22% 3,85% 1,68% 5,92% 4,61% 61,04% 11,25% 0,00% -12,24 Sabad 2 15,86% 5,13% 1,95% 0,99% 5,33% 53,88% 16,18% 0,00% 69,46 F-102 46,30% 1,30% 1,30% 3,85% 7,94% 32,57% 6,93% 0,00% 88,98 F-103 16,20% 3,12% 4,28% 4,41% 6,91% 45,20% 20,43% 0,00% 48,62 Ziplex 10 11,21% 4,42% 6,43% 4,12% 12,04% 53,02% 7,66% 0,62% 26,53 TM2 15,46% 2,70% 4,41% 2,22% 11,99% 56,63% 6,45% 0,00% 25,06 F-104 11,21% 4,42% 6,43% 4,12% 12,04% 53,02% 7,66% 0,62% 28,67 F-211 17,70% 1,72% 1,92% 5,76% 8,04% 52,91% 11,91% 0,00% 113,65 Ziplex 15 6,67% 3,21% 4,85% 2,60% 4,87% 58,98% 20,39% 0,00% 59,46 F-105 14,49% 2,19% 5,03% 3,77% 9,74% 56,71% 8,54% 0,00% -5,43 Ziplex 20 6,16% 0,00% 4,23% 3,69% 14,04% 55,17% 15,52% 0,00% 7,02 F-212 22,89% 4,29% 6,25% 9,36% 11,23% 41,78% 3,30% 0,00% -16,08 Ziplex 25 12,01% 1,97% 2,68% 4,42% 9,25% 51,42% 15,74% 1,52% -0,40 F-213 13,75% 2,35% 4,58% 6,03% 10,56% 40,89% 17,98% 3,01% 102,27 TM 3 7,75% 3,79% 5,21% 2,96% 21,75% 29,46% 29,07% 1,18% 41,98 Emine 17,23% 5,24% 5,36% 5,40% 8,35% 46,66% 10,15% 1,54% -3,11 TM 4 9,91% 10,50% 4,51% 7,65% 10,84% 47,77% 4,40% 2,94% -6,04 TM 5 5,16% 4,13% 0,00% 2,64% 4,71% 67,10% 13,09% 3,17%

 

[wilhb81]

Love the way you tested out different finders, keep us updating with more information OP!