FYI: Mission Galactica Coin (Blue) Was I scammed by MA?

[igi]

About reducing peds in game: a quarter of Caly turnover is paid out to the clds I think, yes? I imagine that most of it is not withdrawn - so some of it gets turned over in game, but lots will stack up over time.

I can understand there being an MA desire to 'convert' peds into low tt but high mu stuff, but do not agree that MA should pocket so much of the difference directly themselves. The mu that goes to players through oils here is minimal. Granted, the sweat is purely to the players, but that is stage 1.

People have written here about the path that MA is taking... the underlying mechanics....AND the way of introduction. It is almost the least worrying element for me that they use words like exciting and fun to describe this chain. I'm still waiting for one of the coins to be lootable by mistake (or design?)... maybe that is what they think will provide excitement?

ppl will just use warps to travel like they do it now and only excitement would be if you cant use warp and transport the coin, but who would risk that

 

[igi]

Now im thinking about this mission again. We know the cost to stage VI. and that before you can get reward you have 0 tt value coins in some color. Now im asking myself how can we know the cost of stage X. Someone must try it and find out i guess. I think its not fair. Reply from MA says that i could assume that its not cheap, thats true. But this way i can assume that stage X cost maybe 50k ped but it can be less or can be more also.
What if one decide to finish it and comes to stage X with 40k ped spended so far and end up with a 0 tt value coin, and than realize that stage X cost additional 100k ped or some ultra rare expensive components with 50k ped tt value? First one to know will be first one to do it, and he can do nothing than. He cant give up and get part of peds back, because if mission is so expensive maybe nobody will be willing to do it. Maybe its not so expensive, but maybe it is and than what? So nobody can say that it is fair this way.

 

[jaydub]

Igi...

...Your position is reasonable...if not a little fraught with poor planning and financial foresight...the information you have provided is helpful to some and don't worry about the naysayers telling you you are stupid and a whiner... <removed>



Thank you for posting and bringing a small issue to light! It was important enough to MA that they plan a fix in the next update! Pretty big deal to them.

Brick

 

[igi]

<removed deleted quote>

Maybe scammed was too strong but it was a question and this word usually help to get attention from ppl and i guess from MA too, to think one more time about such stuff and maybe fix it in best interest of both sides (players and MA). Sucking in huge ammount of money from ppl can be made if its need to be done, on another way by offering them some fun and stimulate them to play and spend more. Game has huge unused potential and stuff like this mission and nerfing pets, removing BPs from game and replacing them with shity ones should not be possible because a goal for RCE game imo should be to attract investors with deep pockets and such actions undermine trust in game imo. Test things before introducing them, because when you put them in RCE game they get markup based on stats and we play with real cash here. As MA told me in a reply later TT value is not importnat because my reward from mission will have markup and markup is important. Tbh i cant totally agree because they say this today, but when you want to withdraw only tt value is important
Anyway all nerfs and future changes have impact on markup and thats why i dont like nerfing pets even if i dont have a single pet myself. Maybe if you really have to introduce things before fully tested at least you should make them untradable and clearly say that the item is in testing phase.

 

[aVaLON_52]

Before this game I played an MMO called Ragnarok Online.

So one thing they would do to test new things is to have a "test server"

Perhaps they can have a server that doesn't use RCE; but players can log in and play on that server, and it's for testing new things before actually implementing it into the real game..

I too notice they'll implement something and then modify it later....... after people have already justified a MU based on it's original stats and paid money for it etc.

 

[igi]

Before this game I played an MMO called Ragnarok Online.

So one thing they would do to test new things is to have a "test server"

Perhaps they can have a server that doesn't use RCE; but players can log in and play on that server, and it's for testing new things before actually implementing it into the real game..

I too notice they'll implement something and then modify it later....... after people have already justified a MU based on it's original stats and paid money for it etc.

Those things undermine trust in this game and if its not the case im sure much more ppl would play it and invest money into it. I personaly am scared to invest alot of ped in any high mu item so i never do that.
But this mission galactica with still unknown cost from stage VI to X is really amazing shit
Totally surprised me how its made and how the costs are hiden and he first person who try and find out ends up screwed. Thats why those coins should have at least tt value of invested stuff. Just imagine after doing lvl IX you realize its to much to finish lvl X and ll you have is 0 tt value in some stupid coin and maybe no buyer willing to finish the mission at still unknown costs which can be extreme. How is that not a scam im not sure

 

[John B Knight]

Those things undermine trust in this game and if its not the case im sure much more ppl would play it and invest money into it. I personaly am scared to invest alot of ped in any high mu item so i never do that.
But this mission galactica with still unknown cost from stage VI to X is really amazing shit
Totally surprised me how its made and how the costs are hiden and he first person who try and find out ends up screwed. Thats why those coins should have at least tt value of invested stuff. Just imagine after doing lvl IX you realize its to much to finish lvl X and ll you have is 0 tt value in some stupid coin and maybe no buyer willing to finish the mission at still unknown costs which can be extreme. How is that not a scam im not sure

Not all missions are intented for someone to obtain at buyout - of course some like to speed to get things first but i think this mission is intended to take awhile and those rushing it to much will likely pay over the top.
Just because some rare parts can cost alot when obtaining them with highest bids doesnt mean that this is the way to do the mission.
Every player has a choice to work through a mission calm and steady at own pace or to leave economic reasoning away and go 'all in'.
We certainly dont need 'failsafe' procedures in entropia to refund overmotivated 'investors' who hope they can sell missions rewards for great money first.
The mission chain contains several warnings and increases in cost and effort continuously to give an early indication that this mission might be to 'hard'/'challenging' for the average player and requires dedication, skills (hitpoint requirements) and a sizeable budget (items needed are preannounced on each step with item links to estimate total costs).
Mindark knows that the community usually works together and quest/mission descriptions are usually quickly found on the forums/entropia related websites - every player knows that if he waits a few days after the hype that there will be questdescriptions avaiable to safe him/her hassle and allow for efficient/economic planning of a mission.
If you rush to be first you always take a risk in hope to reap the greatest reward, however going for something abit slower and more efficient usually still allows to gain a fair profit at largely reduced risks.

 

[igi]

Not all missions are intented for someone to obtain at buyout - of course some like to speed to get things first but i think this mission is intended to take awhile and those rushing it to much will likely pay over the top.
Just because some rare parts can cost alot when obtaining them with highest bids doesnt mean that this is the way to do the mission.
Every player has a choice to work through a mission calm and steady at own pace or to leave economic reasoning away and go 'all in'.
We certainly dont need 'failsafe' procedures in entropia to refund overmotivated 'investors' who hope they can sell missions rewards for great money first.
The mission chain contains several warnings and increases in cost and effort continuously to give an early indication that this mission might be to 'hard'/'challenging' for the average player and requires dedication, skills (hitpoint requirements) and a sizeable budget (items needed are preannounced on each step with item links to estimate total costs).
Mindark knows that the community usually works together and quest/mission descriptions are usually quickly found on the forums/entropia related websites - every player knows that if he waits a few days after the hype that there will be questdescriptions avaiable to safe him/her hassle and allow for efficient/economic planning of a mission.
If you rush to be first you always take a risk in hope to reap the greatest reward, however going for something abit slower and more efficient usually still allows to gain a fair profit at largely reduced risks.

All you are saying here has nothing to do with my point here, which is: We dont know the cost of stage X before first person do it and we can only expect something, but what if its 10 times bigger, and im not talking about markup but pure tt costs. In that case first one to to it will be screwed if stage 10 alone cost 100k ped on tt or something enough to make it not worth doing. Than this guy we all waiting to tell us how much it cost, ends up with 0 tt value coin and if he says on forum that stage 10 sucks nobody will buy that coin. Simple question im asking here is: Is something like that fair and who is going to help him or her at the end? Or we all just wait for someone to tell us the info and pay the cost, and than we leave him to suffer with huge loss, telling him same story that he shouldnt rush into it? Come on you cant say its ok. All you need is to imagine yourself after stage 9 in something like that

 

[nostradarmas]

igi has fair point

All you are saying here has nothing to do with my point here, which is: We dont know the cost of stage X before first person do it and we can only expect something, but what if its 10 times bigger, and im not talking about markup but pure tt costs. In that case first one to to it will be screwed if stage 10 alone cost 100k ped on tt or something enough to make it not worth doing. Than this guy we all waiting to tell us how much it cost, ends up with 0 tt value coin and if he says on forum that stage 10 sucks nobody will buy that coin. Simple question im asking here is: Is something like that fair and who is going to help him or her at the end? Or we all just wait for someone to tell us the info and pay the cost, and than we leave him to suffer with huge loss, telling him same story that he shouldnt rush into it? Come on you cant say its ok. All you need is to imagine yourself after stage 9 in something like that

MA should be upfront with the FULL requirments on this mission then no one has risk doing a mission to find out ?

 

[SpikeBlack]

Loot at this from MA's point of view, if they told people how much it would cost towards the end would people even bother starting it?

 

[Doer]

I've seen this same drama play out so many times in EU with different sets and different actors, and unfortunately MA has inexplicably stepped in more often than not when an opportunistic fool paints himself into a corner after a VU. It's a weird trait in a company that seems to respond so poorly to its customer base, but maybe it's not so weird when they are stoically determined to create pirate opportunities in space and regularly leave scam victims hurting when there's ample proof of who the guilty party is.

I think i can sum up this thread and the related posts by OP with a word i've never used before, but heard through movies etc: "chutzpah".

chutzpah. also hutzpah, 1892, from Yiddish khutspe "impudence, gall." from Hebrew hutspah. The classic definition is that given by Leo Rosten: "that quality enshrined in a man who, having killed his mother and father, throws himself on the mercy of the court because he is an orphan."

Chutzpah amounts to a total denial of personal responsibility, that renders others speechless and incredulous ... one cannot quite believe that another person totally lacks common human traits like remorse, regret, guilt, sympathy and insight. The implication is at least some degree of psychopathy in the subject, as well as the awestruck amazement of the observer at the display.

I have to admit though, i only posted here (finally) because i couldn't resist this quote from Nostradarmus [sic]

MA should be upfront with the FULL requirments on this mission then no one has risk doing a mission to find out ?

 

[igi]

Loot at this from MA's point of view, if they told people how much it would cost towards the end would people even bother starting it?

Good point, but also would be ok to keep it secret only if this is a mission like other missions with stages, where you have a task and you do it, play btw and get skill and some loot or something and than you can give up in the middle of it but wont end up empty handed. In such mission nobody needs to know exactly the cost to lets say kill 10k of some mob. But this mission seems to be special, with no playing almost at all and one who decide to finish it to the stage 10 can suffer alot at the end, with no skill gain, no loot in hands and basicly just lost alot of ped.
So yea they maybe shouldnt tell the cost to do a mission, but they also shouldnt make a mission which looks like pure trade. Like you go to MAs web shop to buy an item but you pay in stages from 1 to 10 without knowing the end price At least they could do a mission galactica so that it actually looks like other missions. Play for your reward and loose btw but if you stop in the middle you had some fun and skills. If one day alot of ppl have a chip from stage 6 or even from the stage 10 and MA decide its to eco and they nerf it, it will be fun to see the explanation, because they actually sold those chips to players, so they cant say that markup was made by players.

 

[John B Knight]

All you are saying here has nothing to do with my point here, which is: We dont know the cost of stage X before first person do it and we can only expect something, but what if its 10 times bigger, and im not talking about markup but pure tt costs. In that case first one to to it will be screwed if stage 10 alone cost 100k ped on tt or something enough to make it not worth doing. Than this guy we all waiting to tell us how much it cost, ends up with 0 tt value coin and if he says on forum that stage 10 sucks nobody will buy that coin. Simple question im asking here is: Is something like that fair and who is going to help him or her at the end? Or we all just wait for someone to tell us the info and pay the cost, and than we leave him to suffer with huge loss, telling him same story that he shouldnt rush into it? Come on you cant say its ok. All you need is to imagine yourself after stage 9 in something like that

No worries, if someone has a stage 9 coin for sale at 'reasonable' price i will buy it - by then i should have completed stage 10 and need one for the second round.
Reasonable being a price close to the actual effort and costs - but not close to any inflated values due to someone throwing his peds out of the window just because he thinks he has to be first and has a right to achieve it without taking risks.

Being first at something is always about risk - its what makes being the first so exciting and if excitement is something someone tries to avoid then he better not starts a mission/adventure into the 'unknown'.

Plenty of missions out there which have been done so many times that their rewards are in no way special any more but rather common and readily avaiable - those who prefer the easy stuff can do these.


One thing you can be sure of - the reward is worth what mindark has set as requirements for it - but it may not be worth the markup generated by players trying to rush it...

 

[igi]

No worries, if someone has a stage 9 coin for sale at 'reasonable' price i will buy it - by then i should have completed stage 10 and need one for the second round.
Reasonable being a price close to the actual effort and costs - but not close to any inflated values due to someone throwing his peds out of the window just because he thinks he has to be first and has a right to achieve it without taking risks.

Being first at something is always about risk - its what makes being the first so exciting and if excitement is something someone tries to avoid then he better not starts a mission/adventure into the 'unknown'.

Plenty of missions out there which have been done so many times that their rewards are in no way special any more but rather common and readily avaiable - those who prefer the easy stuff can do these.


One thing you can be sure of - the reward is worth what mindark has set as requirements for it - but it may not be worth the markup generated by players trying to rush it...

I hope the same that the reward is worth at least the TT of materials needed. I guess it will be and we will find out how much MA think its worth . Than we will wait and hope that after 50 chips in game MA wont decide to rebalance the unbalanced something by nerfing the chips lol. Those things they did before, but before excuse was that markup was set by players. This time it will be mostly set by MA with the tt value of materials. Lest hope that after you get the chip they wont realize that its to much eco for the game lol. Atm im waiting for the CLD revenue. Seems they buged something with that too

 

[igi]

Finally MA did what they should do from the beginig of this mission. They put details about each stage on website

http://www.entropiauniverse.com/missiongalactica

I still dont like the mission but im happy to see that finally you can know what to expect and based on that decide will you go to stage 10 or not. If this thread and my support cases had even a small influence at MA to make those information available officialy than my goal is achieved. Thanks alot to all ppl who supported me in this

 

[S4400Salvation]

Finally MA did what they should do from the beginig of this mission. They put details about each stage on website

http://www.entropiauniverse.com/missiongalactica

I still dont like the mission but im happy to see that finally you can know what to expect and based on that decide will you go to stage 10 or not. If this thread and my support cases had even a small influence at MA to make those information available officialy than my goal is achieved. Thanks alot to all ppl who supported me in this

This is a mission i definetly won't do lol, just a small bunch of people who would actually use any of those chips, it feels like a pvp chip, 2 uses per min?

And what avatar would need a heal of 780? Not in this decade.

ps. is MA allowed to basically decide the MU (estimate) of an item by releasing the tt items and quantity needed?

 

[Dollymaus]

And what avatar would need a heal of 780? Not in this decade.

you can easily use 1000 in those 30 seconds with a 200 health avater, just get 20 hits with avg 50 damage, you even need more because of overheal - its basically a fapper behind you but in your own hands

 

[Rumsponge]

is MA allowed to basically decide the MU (estimate) of an item by releasing the tt items and quantity needed?

Don't they do that with everything?

 

[S4400Salvation]

Don't they do that with everything?

Could u point out a few with the same scenario?

I think it was a standard that MA releases a item and the participants decide the MU on several factors, but with current requirements for this mission they kinda decided that already.

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

And what avatar would need a heal of 780? Not in this decade.

Many, many, many people actually. Because the 780 heal is not instant, you only heal yourself for 20% of that per click, the other 80% is healed in the next 30 seconds. And during those 30 seconds you can do whatever you want, shoot your gun, use some other fap for extra healing, whatever.

780 * 20% = 156 hp max per click

780 * 80% = 624 hp max for 30 seconds

624 hp / 30 s = 20.8 hps (max)

These chips are quite awesome if you ask me.

 

[RickEngland]

The only problem I have with this whole mission is transporting a ton of ped in lootable space.


Stage 6) 200 Bio ID TT price 3500 ped or $350
Stage 7) 5000 Liver Oil TT price 5000 ped or $500
Stage 8) 500 Rad Convertors TT price 8500 ped or $850
Stage 9) 1 million metal res TT price 10000 ped or $1000
Stage 10) 1000 vaccum TT price 25000 ped or $2500

Lovely chips, expensive though....lol (but tempting).

Rick

 

[Mac]

The only problem I have with this whole mission is transporting a ton of ped in lootable space.


Stage 6) 200 Bio ID TT price 3500 ped or $350
Stage 7) 5000 Liver Oil TT price 5000 ped or $500
Stage 8) 500 Rad Convertors TT price 8500 ped or $850
Stage 9) 1 million metal res TT price 10000 ped or $1000
Stage 10) 1000 vaccum TT price 25000 ped or $2500

Lovely chips, expensive though....lol (but tempting).

Rick

Turn away, don't go into the light!

 

[chronos]

The only problem I have with this whole mission is transporting a ton of ped in lootable space.


Stage 6) 200 Bio ID TT price 3500 ped or
Stage 7) 5000 Liver Oil TT price 5000 ped or
Stage 8) 500 Rad Convertors TT price 8500 ped or
Stage 9) 1 million metal res TT price 10000 ped or
Stage 10) 1000 vaccum TT price 25000 ped or

Lovely chips, expensive though....lol (but tempting).

Rick

Most of the items you can send from planetside, from mission log. The rest you can just trade in at any of the safe space stations.
You only need to go to the howling mine in pvp lootable space, and then by carrying the coins that is suppose to not be lootable.

Ill grab the adjusted in the weekend

 

[e-lite]

Mission Galactica is a joke and the heal chip rewards you can get is pretty overrated.

 

[Nunoko]

So how much TT peds does this quest chain remove from the playerbase when completed?

I don't know if it's a smart move to put everything on mark up. The real cash trade is disappearing.

But I guess MA needs your peds

 

[valentin]

There is a problem here, if we read what MA says - - -> " The TT value does not matter since the PED lies in the MU".

And we know that the trend of the game is that MU has fallen constantly in recent years to undertake something with MU is doomed to fail.

 

[chronos]

There is a problem here, if we read what MA says - - -> " The TT value does not matter since the PED lies in the MU".

And we know that the trend of the game is that MU has fallen constantly in recent years to undertake something with MU is doomed to fail.

What i remember from the past, MU was a surprise for Mindark, they never thought of it (being true or not i leave for the eye of beholder to decide) and they were quite impressed that things sold for such high MU (Like a shadow harness for tt + 1000 PED or such.) when speaking to their staff in IRC channels (yeah they had "sort of" IRC support in the beginning)

But MU has always been, and always will be a good thing for them. Its like,, ooh what a shiny dollar you have there, can i buy it for because i want it for my collection
I just hope that theese kinds of items doesnt loose its value, because they will never be rare as long as players simply can create more. Sure would be another story if they made some of the resources rare like the shrooms, or made player avatar levels decide if it could be created or not, and once / avatar.

Another good way for them, and maybe for us would be that if an avatar has an entire set of theese items, theyll get a item set bonus.

 

[Fiona Simmons]

For this price tag i can heal with an ek2600 T10 for the rest of my entropia life and still have peds left. It would only make sense if i can purchase and sell this item for the same price or higher and profit from the eco heals inbetween. But there is no limit but our playerbase wallets on how many of this chips will be created. The price tag on them is doomed to go down over time.

To have 2% of total turnover for armor and repair is vieved as eco, most have even less of that number. Yet we make the biggest waves and spend insane amounts of money to optimize this meager 2%.

We are crazy

 

[chronos]

For this price tag i can heal with an ek2600 T10 for the rest of my entropia life and still have peds left. It would only make sense if i can purchase and sell this item for the same price or higher and profit from the eco heals inbetween. But there is no limit but our playerbase wallets on how many of this chips will be created. The price tag on them is doomed to go down over time.

To have 2% of total turnover for armor and repair is vieved as eco, most have even less of that number. Yet we make the biggest waves and spend insane amounts of money to optimize this meager 2%.

We are crazy

God... ehrmm i mean Entropians work in mysterious ways

 

[St4rL0rd3]

Ok so if it wasn't already said this is more/less a database issue where (psuedo database) is being used by code to store mission information on players.

You might try asking the EU team to reset your mission statistics by preforming a sql style query against the DB or by using a string finder against whatever CVS style DB they have put in place for this mission xD.

In the most worst case they have used a hash style security system, so you may no longer be able to change mission info. SORRY GL