Mob Damage Studies - Circa 2008

JohnCapital

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In the https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/armor/91842-armor-decay-testing-results-vu-9-1-a.html it's being noticed that mob damage type and percentages are not quite right, which many of us knew. Caudatergus & Daikiba are listed as 100% impact, yet their attack animations show them gouging us with horns and teeth. :scratch2: Always thought that was strange.

I propose a new batch of testing. Thus this thread is created.

Here's a few things that will help with the testing.

Assumption #1: Mob attack animation hints at dmg type. Drones firing at us most likely don't do stab damage.

Assumption #2: Most mobs do more than 1 dmg type. We have a large list of mobs that we consider 100% impact only. I suspect this is simply due to lazy testing. Also, based on assumption #1, many mobs have more than 1 attack animation.

Hypothesis: all maturities do the same dmg type in the same %s. (This theory needs to be confirmed or busted.)

Data needed:
Mob:
Maturity:
Armor:
Plates:
Max dmg:
(try to get hit at least 5-10 times)
Min Dmg:
Armor decayed:
(Yes/No)
Plates decayed: (Yes/No)
Amount of decay on each: (Please only use 100% repaired armor, or (L) armor)
Most likely dmg: (what % of which dmg do you think this mob did, based on this data?)

Problems: Testing different dmg types requires a lot of different armors. Often rare armor pieces are needed. Some armor pieces that might help are:

  • Polaris (L) - high cut/stab, but 0 impact
  • Vampire - small Stab, 0 cut/impact
  • BodyGuard - penetration but 0 burn
  • 5D plates - cut/stab 0 impact
  • 6A plates - penetration but 0 stab

The problem is some of these armors are rare, so if you have these, and others available, please help out.

You get the idea. We need multiple plates/armors on the same mob to help narrow down the results.

An ideal selection of armors/plates may be:
  • Goblin
  • Kobold
  • Vampire
  • 5Ds
  • 6As

With these in certain combinations, we can separate cut, stab, impact, penetration, burn, and perhaps cold and acid.

Let's see what we can learn folks.
 
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Nice move JC.

There are two testing methods that spring to mind:

(i) The traditional method of standing in front of a mob for a long time to determine the min and max hits you can take with various armors.

Example

Step 1: Naked versus Jimmibatrox Young. Experiment should last long enough to determine max damage without any doubt (max damage is assumed to always be integer).

Min hit 10.6
Max hit 19.9

is no good - Jimmibatrox Young could hit 10-20 damage or 10.5-21 damage.

Min hit 10.4
Max hit 19.9

is good - we can deduce Jimmibatrox Young do a maximum damage of 20.

------------------------------

Step 2: Determine what damage types mob does if possible. Stand in front of it with a variety of armors and plates in order to determine what damage types the mob does.

It isn't always possible to pin it down exactly using this method but its still helpful to eliminate what you can.

An ideal example is the Jimmibatrox which we find does no decay to Hermes (L) armor, nor to 2C plates. This covers all damage types except Electric and Cold so these are the only damage types the Jimmibatrox can do.

-------------------------

Step 3: Stand in front of mob with various armors to determine the damage percentage.

Goblin+1C vs Jimmibatrox Young

Min Hit: 7.2
Max Hit: 14.9

Since we're protecting 5 electric damage and no cold damage we can fairly safely deduce that on a max hit we're protecting the full 5 damage.
On a min hit we seem to be protecting 3 damage only. We test for a little longer and indeed eventually get a 7.0 hit but no lower.

So when the Jimmibatrox hits for 10, only 3 of that is electric. Thus we can deduce the Jimmibatrox does 30% Electric and 70% Cold


(ii) Single hit decay testing on armor pieces. From our data in the other thread we can pretty much determine how much damage was absorbed in a given hit which might be helpful in determining the percentages (its certainly been helpful in determining percentages that are wrong at least!). Perhaps we can use this to verify our findings?
 
Good idea JC. I know for pretty sure that the percentages are not the same for all maturities, and damage for each type are always integers. So a mob that does 25/75 and a max of 10 damage does either 2/8 or 3/7.
 
Good idea JC. I know for pretty sure that the percentages are not the same for all maturities, and damage for each type are always integers. So a mob that does 25/75 and a max of 10 damage does either 2/8 or 3/7.

Ah didn't know that.

Is the variation in percentages with maturity only a result of rounding?
 
Ah didn't know that.

Is the variation in percentages with maturity only a result of rounding?

Not sure about that. Might be an idea to look for some very old threads, back from the time when mobs only did max damage.
 
Feffoids

OK thought I'd start this one off, since I discovered the error on wiki during the armor testing.

Naked v Feffoid Guard

Jesus these guys are crap at hitting...after nearly dying of boredom it occurred to me I could tag more than one at once :D. In the end I got to:

Min Hit: 19.1
Max Hit: 37.8

confirming the damage of Feffoid Guard to be 19.0-38.0 as per wiki

----------------------

Goblin v Feffoid Guard

Since its my only full armor set, I then went and stood in front of a bunch of Feff Guards in my fine and mighty Goblin armor. After a hundred or so hits I had:

Min Hit: 12.2
Max Hit: 26.0

----------------------

So, on the max hit I'm absorbing the full 12 Impact offered by Goblin. On the min hit, it looks like I'm absorbing 7.0 Impact, assuming Witte's statement above to be correct.

Also temporarily assuming that Feffoids only do Impact and Cold as previously thought then we have that Feffoids do somewhere between:

35.5% Impact, 64.5% Cold
and
38.2% Impact, 61.8% Cold

-------------------

I'll do a test on a bigger one later to help pin down that percentage gap a little, and also check that cold is indeed the only damage type.
 
Nice idea. +rep JC, +rep Jimmy for testing.
 
One suggestion: Whenever entropedia is updated, try to put a link to the correct post on EF in the comments when updating. Then it can always easely be backtracked.
 
In the https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/armor/91842-armor-decay-testing-results-vu-9-1-a.html it's being noticed that mob damage type and percentages are not quite right, which many of us knew. Caudatergus & Daikiba are listed as 100% impact, yet their attack animations show them gouging us with horns and teeth. :scratch2: Always thought that was strange.

I propose a new batch of testing. Thus this thread is created.

Here's a few things that will help with the testing.

Assumption #1: Mob attack animation hints at dmg type. Drones firing at us most likely don't do stab damage.


Well two mobs that have (2) different attacks are Warrior & Trooper bots. I dont know for how long this has been going on, but around VU9.0 or right before that I used melee againt a Trooper and when I got close it strated to punch back, obviously not doing pen&burn damage. I thought it was pretty wild or some kind of bug. Then few days later I ran outta ammo on a Warrior so I busted out me axe and the Warrior starts swinging at me making a strange sound I never heard before.

It dawned on me that you dont really need high burn&pen (vigi+6a) to hunt these mobs. As I said, this might not be new info but it was new to me.
 
Well two mobs that have (2) different attacks are Warrior & Trooper bots. I dont know for how long this has been going on, but around VU9.0 or right before that I used melee againt a Trooper and when I got close it strated to punch back, obviously not doing pen&burn damage. I thought it was pretty wild or some kind of bug. Then few days later I ran outta ammo on a Warrior so I busted out me axe and the Warrior starts swinging at me making a strange sound I never heard before.

It dawned on me that you dont really need high burn&pen (vigi+6a) to hunt these mobs. As I said, this might not be new info but it was new to me.

Well, this all requires testing. Recoda's tests on Warrior from a few months ago indicate that Warrior do Impact, Cut, Pene & Burn with each attack.

The animations may give clues but they're not a reliable source of information!
 
Great thread as always by JC, JimmyB and Witte. One question to make it clear for me: is it confirmed that in a single hit a mob always does all its different kinds of damage? I vaguely remember that sometimes I get an unusually strong damage in an armor with good protection for all kinds of damage except one, as if the mob doing 33% impact/cut/stab suddenly hit 100% impact (atrox vs vigi e.g.) But I might be wrong, any data about this?
 
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Great thread as always by JC, JimmyB and Witte. One question to make it clear for me: is it confirmed that in a single hit a mob always does all its different kinds of damage? I vaguely remember that sometimes I get an unusually strong damage in an armor with good protection for all kinds of damage except one, as if the mob doing 33% impact/cut/stab suddenly hit 100% impact (atrox vs vigi e.g.) But I might be wrong, any data about this?

Its not absolutely confirmed as far as I know mate.

However, having spent the last VU hunting big trox almost exclusively, I am absolutely certain that the situation you describe there cannot happen (except perhaps as a result of a bug). With 100% Impact Prowlers would be able to kill me in one hit at full health, and Old Alphas would come very close. In actual fact neither of them can get anywhere near. Whilst I don't think 33%,33%,33% is right and needs testing, I'll eat my hat if they can ever do 100% anything.
 
Feffoids Part II

Right, went out on the Feffs again.

Naked vs Feffoid Warlord

Min Hit: 28.1
Max Hit: 54.9

I racked up about 15 PED of fap decay on this useless mob. Even after that I still can't determine whether its 27.5-55.0 or 28.0-56.0.

Test abandoned.

Naked vs Feffoid Champion

Min Hit: 28.5
Max Hit: 56.4

Thus Feffoid Champions hit from 28.5-57.0 damage, assuming integer max damages.

Gremlin vs Feffoid Champion

Min Hit: 14.3
Max Hit: 35.8

The max hit is as would be expected. We protect 15 Impact and 6 Cold making the max possible hit 36.0. All other damage types are now pretty much ruled out except for Penetration and Shrapnel. 6A plates don't decay (against Feffoid Guard) which rules out Penetration and I'm willing to assume no Shrapnel is involved.

The Min Hit is a bit higher than I expected. I stood there for quite a while (took at least four other hits in the 14.3-14.6 range). Based on some results that follow from another test, I think we protect 6 Cold and 9 Impact making the minimum possible hit 13.5.

This would imply Feffoid Champions do 18 Impact and 39 Cold (31.6%, 68.4%). This a significantly smaller percentage of Impact than the Guard which is interesting.

Feffoid Guard, Decay Test

As the results of the two tests are a little odd, I did a bit of testing via method (ii) in my first post on the thread.

Wearing Goblin against a Feffoid Guard I took two hits:

16.3 damage received,
17.6 damage received.

These caused:

0.622 pec decay and
0.679 pec decay.

Using the data points from armor decay thread these decays in Goblin correspond to approximately:

9.51 damage absorbed and
10.25 damage absorbed.

Thus for the first hit I had 9.51 Impact and 16.3 Cold (36.8%, 63.2%)
For the second hit I had 10.25 Impact and 17.6 Cold (36.8%, 63.2%)
Which is nice and consistent with Feff Guards doing 14 Impact and 24 Cold max (36.8%, 63.2%).

Feffoid Champion, Decay Test

Wearing Gremlin, I took three hits against a Feffoid Champion:

16.6 damage received,
18.5 damage received,
19.6 damage received.

The armors decayed:

1.187,
1.266,
1.314.

For Gremlin this corresponds to damage absorbed of roughly:

16.4,
17.3,
17.8.

So in the first hit I took 10.4 Impact, 6 Cold and another 16.6 Cold (31.5%, 68.5%).
In the second hit I took 11.3 Impact, 6 Cold and another 18.5 Cold (31.6%, 68.4%)
In the third hit I took 11.8 Impact, 6 Cold and another 19.6 Cold (31.6%, 68.4%).
Which is consistent with Feffoid Champions doing 18 Impact and 39 Cold (31.6%, 68.4%).

Conclusions

Preliminary indications are that damage appears spread between damage types in a fixed ratio for a given mob, as expected.

Feffoid Guard appears to do 14 Impact, 24 Cold (36.8%, 63.2%)
Feffoid Champion appears to do 18 Impact, 39 Cold (31.6%, 68.4%)

Since these differences in percentages are not explainable by rounding, it seems we must deduce that different mob maturities can do a different ratio damage types.

[Observation: Method (ii) seems to work quite nicely. Its not only much quicker but also much cheaper ;)]
 
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Conclusions

Preliminary indications are that damage appears spread between damage types in a fixed ratio for a given mob, as expected.

Feffoid Guard appears to do 14 Impact, 24 Cold (36.8%, 63.2%)
Feffoid Champion appears to do 18 Impact, 39 Cold (31.6%, 68.4%)

Since these differences in percentages are not explainable by rounding, it seems we must deduce that different mob maturities can do a different ratio damage types.

[Observation: Method (ii) seems to work quite nicely. Its not only much quicker but also much cheaper ;)]

Can proceed 2 ways: either accept the error and take the avarage, or find out the damage for each maturity. Personally I dont mind the error.
 
Can proceed 2 ways: either accept the error and take the avarage, or find out the damage for each maturity. Personally I dont mind the error.

I've put the average on wiki for now. Its certainly better than the 50%, 50% that was up there before in all cases!

It'd be interesting to know how much the percentages can vary over maturities (does also mean its feasible different maturities could do altogether different damage types but kinda hope thats not the case.

But yes, for practical purposes, if the variation over maturities is only ever around 5% like here then its not going to affect armor choice.

Personally I think they should show how much of each damage type a particular mob can do when you scan it.
 
Just wanted to add a tiny bit of info, I'm also pretty sure that there are no percentages for the damage of mobs, but rather fixed values, like on our weapons. Now with the variable damage and such that makes it all pretty tedious if you want to figure out all the exact values :/
But I just stumbled over some old info of a test that a friend did with Formidons ages ago, when they still did max damage...

Formidon Young: 94 Total Damage, 12 Impact (12,76596...%), 60 Stab (63,82979...%), 22 Penetration (23,40426...%)

Formidon Mature: 109 Total Damage, 14 Impact (12,84404...%), 73 Stab (66,97248...%), 22 Penetration (20,18349...%)

(Note: These numbers are oooooold)

So if they haven't changed the whole thing since then it would seem that the percentages are for one not the same, even if not by much, but they also don't look nice, while the whole numbers do.

Probably the best way is to find some sort of average, which mostly works for all the maturities, though it hasn't gotten easier to figure that out with the variable damage ;O
 
Just wanted to add a tiny bit of info, I'm also pretty sure that there are no percentages for the damage of mobs, but rather fixed values, like on our weapons. Now with the variable damage and such that makes it all pretty tedious if you want to figure out all the exact values :/
But I just stumbled over some old info of a test that a friend did with Formidons ages ago, when they still did max damage...

Formidon Young: 94 Total Damage, 12 Impact (12,76596...%), 60 Stab (63,82979...%), 22 Penetration (23,40426...%)

Formidon Mature: 109 Total Damage, 14 Impact (12,84404...%), 73 Stab (66,97248...%), 22 Penetration (20,18349...%)

(Note: These numbers are oooooold)

So if they haven't changed the whole thing since then it would seem that the percentages are for one not the same, even if not by much, but they also don't look nice, while the whole numbers do.

Probably the best way is to find some sort of average, which mostly works for all the maturities, though it hasn't gotten easier to figure that out with the variable damage ;O

Yeah that seems to be how it works Sound :)

Thanks for the Formidon numbers - we were aware of a problem there, Penetration could explain that!
 
HHmm, set numbers instead of %s. :duh:


<--- Feels dumb.
 
Feffoids Part III

Did a few more tests, figure its worth seeing how much it varies over all maturities of one mob.

Feffoid Bandit, Decay Test

Wearing Goblin against a Feffoid Bandit I took two hits:

20.5 damage received,
12.2 damage received.

These caused:

0.799 pec decay and
0.434 pec decay.

Using the data points from armor decay thread these decays in Goblin correspond to approximately:

11.7 damage absorbed and
7.0 damage absorbed.

Thus for the first hit I had 11.7 Impact and 20.5 Cold (36.3%, 63.7%)
For the second hit I had 7.0 Impact and 12.2 Cold (36.5%, 63.5%)

Using 36.4% as the percentage to get an integer outcome I need 33 damage. (confirmed by wiki)

So Feffoid Bandit appears to do 12 Impact, 21 Cold.

Feffoid Outcast, Decay Test

Wearing Goblin, I took two hits against a Feffoid Outcast:

9.9 damage received,
14.8 damage received.

The armors decayed:

0.330,
0.524.

For Goblin this corresponds to damage absorbed of roughly:

5.5,
8.2.

So in the first hit I took 5.5 Impact, 9.9 Cold (35.7%, 64.3%).
In the second hit I took 8.2 Impact, 14.8 Cold (35.7%, 64.3%)

Again to get an integer outcome I need a max damage of 28 as confirmed on wiki.

Feffoid Outcast do 10 Impact, 18 Cold (35.7%, 64.3%)

Conclusions

Feffoid Outcast appears to do 10 Impact, 18 Cold (35.7%, 64.3%)
Feffoid Bandit appears to do 12 Impact, 21 Cold (36.4%, 63.6%)
Feffoid Guard appears to do 14 Impact, 24 Cold (36.8%, 63.2%)
Feffoid Champion appears to do 18 Impact, 39 Cold (31.6%, 68.4%)
 
Very, very nice Jimmy.


Seems the dmg section of Wiki will need to be altered.

A quick fix could be to take current % dmg we're used to (even though we know they're wrong) and apply them to the max damages we know. Adjust to whole numbers and there ya go.

It's a start anyway. Then we can get on with the process of verifying and adjusting:

  • Dmg amounts
  • Dmg distribution
  • Armor decay

Let the fun begin.

(BTW, I get the feeling we can get a lot of info about Exas and Trox during the next few days. ;))
 
Very, very nice Jimmy.


Seems the dmg section of Wiki will need to be altered.

A quick fix could be to take current % dmg we're used to (even though we know they're wrong) and apply them to the max damages we know. Adjust to whole numbers and there ya go.

It's a start anyway. Then we can get on with the process of verifying and adjusting:
  • Dmg amounts
  • Dmg distribution
  • Armor decay
Let the fun begin.

(BTW, I get the feeling we can get a lot of info about Exas and Trox during the next few days. ;))

Yeah, its quite complicated for wiki. I think we should still have the summary page with average percentages for each mob. Then maybe a breakdown by maturity. I'm not sure we'll get enough people testing to do all the mobs though.
 
Yeah, its quite complicated for wiki. I think we should still have the summary page with average percentages for each mob. Then maybe a breakdown by maturity. I'm not sure we'll get enough people testing to do all the mobs though.

Your idea sounds plausible and the most likely way to transfer the info. In the end it shouldn't be too hard. Maybe we'll spot a few trends in maturities that will help. (maybe?)

I just still can't get over how we all know our weapons and armor work on solid round numbers, but w/ mob dmg we all thought in terms of % dmg type.

wtf were we thinking? :scratch:
 
Is it possible to annotate the untested/unupdated wiki results with an asterisk, and that way see which entries have been validated?

Just a thought.

Good luck, +rep coming for this excellent effort (an effort that I will gladly contribute to after my return from my vacation -- to the extent I can).
 
I just still can't get over how we all know our weapons and armor work on solid round numbers, but w/ mob dmg we all thought in terms of % dmg type.

wtf were we thinking? :scratch:

Yeah true, especially since its been known for some time (as Sound's post shows). Its amazing what great bits of knowledge get lost in time.
 
Atrax Young test

Here are some results of the test that I've done with atrax young in Scilla.

1) No armor: max dmg taken 36.9, min dmg taken 18.7. This confirms the wiki data of 37 maximum possible damage.

2) Decay test in fully repaired Gnome, no plates.

1st hit: dmg taken 15.3; armor decay (thigh guards) 0.750 pec.
2nd hit: dmg taken 19.3; armor decay (shin guards) 0.870 pec.

Decay was measured with the bottles of sweat.

Assuming that this armor decay is 4 cut + impact, it is possible to estimate the impact percentage of atrax young. My calculations show that it is about 26.5%, or in integers 10 impact out of total damage of 37.

3) How to separate cut and stab? I put on gnome+5a that does no protection against stab and tried to measure again the maximum and minimum damage taken. Now big surprise:

Gnome+5a (protection: 18 impact, 8 cut, 0 stab): min dmg taken - 1.0; max dmg taken 11.5 (didn't test max dmg long enough though, but got also 11.3 and 11.4).

I think it can only mean that atrax young doesn't do any stab or that percentages of damages in each hit can vary.

No conclusions at this moment, hope someone will check it and see whether I didn't do any obvious mistakes.
 
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nice thread JC!

I'd like to know what argos are doing.... Argo hunters killing me now through Jag+5B's ... before I could take on 3-4 at a time now one kills me in 3 hits... and avarage hit to me is about 30-60 (if that's what MA meant by averaging out the hits then... it feels like when i first tried to kill one lol)...
or someting is bugged.

My hp is only 152 atm. so go figure. hits kind of dont add up when i die in 3 hits and yep. highest they have hit me is 60 damage with minimum being 1 (rare) but rest 30-60... and well not sure what's going on yet with them... an dyes i have my footguards..




the rest of the argos only do 1 damage to me...
 
2) Decay test in fully repaired Gnome, no plates.

1st hit: dmg taken 15.3; armor decay (thigh guards) 0.750 pec.
2nd hit: dmg taken 19.3; armor decay (shin guards) 0.870 pec.

Decay was measured with the bottles of sweat.

Assuming that this armor decay is 4 cut + impact, it is possible to estimate the impact percentage of atrax young. My calculations show that it is about 26.5%, or in integers 10 impact out of total damage of 37.

Just confirming the math here.

0.750 decay is 11.15 dmg. Then 7.15/(11.15+15.3)=27.0%
0.870 decay is 12.6 dmg. Then 8.6/(12.6+19.3)=27.0%

37*0.27= 10 Impact.

3) How to separate cut and stab? I put on gnome+5a that does no protection against stab and tried to measure again the maximum and minimum damage taken. Now big surprise:

Gnome+5a (protection: 18 impact, 8 cut, 0 stab): min dmg taken - 1.0; max dmg taken 11.5 (didn't test max dmg long enough though, but got also 11.3 and 11.4).

Full damage is offered to both armor and plates. So you can protect 11 Impact and 4 Cut from the Gnome. And another 7 Impact, 4 Cut from the plates.

So I'd expect you to protect 8 Cut (4 Cut on both) and 17 Impact (10 Impact on Gnome, 7 on plates) for a max hit. That's 25 protection. So you should take a max of 12.0. Which is in line with your data.

(It may feel odd but this is an expected result - although the mob hits you for only 10 impact, you absorb it with both the armor and the plates so you actually protect 17 Impact, the extra is effectively deducted of the other damage types that aren't protected against)

On a min hit you're protecting 10 Impact (5 on both) and therefor at least 7.5 Cut. Thus the plates and the armor are taking at least 3.75 Cut each. Since the actual number must be either whole or end in 0.5, they must be taking at least 4 dmg each. So we can deduce on a min hit its doing at least 4 Cut damage.

So we know Atrax Young does 10 Impact, at least 8 Cut.

We'll have to think up a few more tests to figure out the rest. I can't think of an obvious way to do it (unless you happen to have Thunderbird or Vindicator) but I'll have a think.
 
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Great thread John, it's defintely useful to revisit this. I'll certainly see what I can do to contribute when I'm back in the game.

Some of the problems have been caused by people changing information on Wikipedia that was (roughly) accurate and putting in incorrect info. For example, I know that Entropedia used to say that Feffoids did 65%/35% (close to what Jimmy B has found), as I copied that info into my own spreadsheet, but at some point someone must have changed that to 50%/50%. I think it would be worthwhile to keep a 'master list' somewhere on EF, with links to the research, as a back-up to the Entropedia info.

That 'master list' should also contain notes about the mobs where we are confident that the info we have is correct, and those where we think the info is wrong, or is completely missing.

The notion about mobs doing integer values rather than %s of each type looks sound, and explains the differences that Witte noted between maturitires, but we shouldn't allow that to distract us. It looks like the %s should still work as a rough guide, in the main (hopefully Jimmy B's Feffoid testing will bear that out). It's going to be much more useful to find a rough answer on Osseocollum, for example, than it is to work out the exact damage values on every single maturity of Longu.

I think it's correct to assume that in most cases the variation between maturities will be small, and that all maturities will do the same damage types, but it's already been proved here that this isn't always the case (Attacker Generation 1s do different damage types to higher generations). I think we can consider this to be an exceptional case, but there may be others so we shouldn't rule out the possibility.

Great work on the testing and discussion so far.
 
Yeah, its quite complicated for wiki. I think we should still have the summary page with average percentages for each mob. Then maybe a breakdown by maturity. I'm not sure we'll get enough people testing to do all the mobs though.


What I can do is add damagetype columns to the maturity chart, and fill them with the currect damage times percentage data. Only drawback is when certain percentages are found to be false, each maturity needs te be edited.
 
Some of the problems have been caused by people changing information on Wikipedia that was (roughly) accurate and putting in incorrect info. For example, I know that Entropedia used to say that Feffoids did 65%/35% (close to what Jimmy B has found), as I copied that info into my own spreadsheet, but at some point someone must have changed that to 50%/50%. I think it would be worthwhile to keep a 'master list' somewhere on EF, with links to the research, as a back-up to the Entropedia info.

Perhaps there's some way we can have a data lock on verified data entries on wiki? Or is that too complicated to work?

That 'master list' should also contain notes about the mobs where we are confident that the info we have is correct, and those where we think the info is wrong, or is completely missing.

We have a list of ones we think may be significantly wrong on wiki on the armor decay thread:

Daikiba, Atrox, Formidon, SEG, Warrior, Feffoid, Longu are the ones mentioned so far, but I dare say there's more.

The notion about mobs doing integer values rather than %s of each type looks sound, and explains the differences that Witte noted between maturitires, but we shouldn't allow that to distract us. It looks like the %s should still work as a rough guide, in the main (hopefully Jimmy B's Feffoid testing will bear that out). It's going to be much more useful to find a rough answer on Osseocollum, for example, than it is to work out the exact damage values on every single maturity of Longu.

Yes, absolutely. I'd say in general the main thing is to get the exact form for maybe two maturities of each mob and then move onto the next mob. The rough percentages are more important than the exact numbers for all. We can fill in the gaps later when we've got indicative percentages for all mobs.

I think it's correct to assume that in most cases the variation between maturities will be small, and that all maturities will do the same damage types, but it's already been proved here that this isn't always the case (Attacker Generation 1s do different damage types to higher generations). I think we can consider this to be an exceptional case, but there may be others so we shouldn't rule out the possibility.

Great work on the testing and discussion so far.

Interesting, what's the story with the Attackers?

What I can do is add damagetype columns to the maturity chart, and fill them with the currect damage times percentage data. Only drawback is when certain percentages are found to be false, each maturity needs te be edited.

I'd say leave em blank until filled in.

The only difficulty I see that causing is in the way parts of wiki calculate things like the effect of armor on how hard a certain mob will hit you. But presumably that can be done using the old method, perhaps with an override if the damage distribution for a given mob maturity isn't blank?
 
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