Money is power – MindArk business model based on (lack of) trust.

boring_player

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FYI

MINDARK'S LIABILITY TOWARDS YOU SHALL, IF ACKNOWLEDGED, IN EACH INCIDENCE BE LIMITED TO NO MORE THAN THE TOTAL AMOUNT TRANSFERRED INTO THE INVOLVED ACCOUNT BY SAID PARTICIPANT UNDER SIX MONTHS PERIOD PRIOR TO THE INCIDENT.

Thank you for this, it has just caused 180 degrees turn in my way of thinking about new player experience and advertisement.

It seems that there is huge difference between advertising you game as a "Real Cash Economy" and "Real Cash Economy Experience"

Well, this one simple sentence brings up tons of questions to me. I hope that I will have some time soon to ask them.
 
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Orion

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FYI

MINDARK'S LIABILITY TOWARDS YOU SHALL, IF ACKNOWLEDGED, IN EACH INCIDENCE BE LIMITED TO NO MORE THAN THE TOTAL AMOUNT TRANSFERRED INTO THE INVOLVED ACCOUNT BY SAID PARTICIPANT UNDER SIX MONTHS PERIOD PRIOR TO THE INCIDENT.



MA did not account the TT value of players as a liability before at all. They just 'forgot' (neglected) it. i know legal systems where this would be called falsification of balancing sheets.

finally MA realized they wouldnt get away with it anymore, which caused the entire liability trouble to them. their solution was the maneuver trick with the six months deposit limit, which you have to 'accept' every time you want to get past the EULA screen.

this way MA cut off most of their liabilities, because they just 'redistributed' it to their asset.
i know legal systems where this form of value redistribution would be called theft.

it is a fairly clever move:
who wants to withdraw? disappointed and bored players.
who doesnt deposit anymore but still loiters a while or waits for the fun to return before deciding to finally withdraw? disappointed and bored players.
but your time already started to run.
you try to liquidate your assets, accumulated over the years, which takes weeks and months.
when you are done you may have 10.000 or 100.000 or in very rare occasions 1.000.000 peds to withdraw.
your last deposit in the past six months might have been only 100US$ because of your boredom? f*ck your 1.000.000peds then...

but well, we accept it everytime we agree to the EULA.
since this move i dont expect to see a single buck from them.
and i cut my 'investment' into items by 90%. too bad, MA, you could have gotten so much more money from me...

i am curious, if this cut of liabilities would pass a court trial...
 
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boring_player

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MA did not account the TT value of players as a liability before at all. They just 'forgot' (neglected) it. i know legal systems where this would be called falsification of balancing sheets.

finally MA realized they wouldnt get away with it anymore, which caused the entire liability trouble to them. the result was the maneuver trick with the six months deposit limit, which you have to 'accept' every time you want to get past the EULA screen.

this way MA cut off most of their liabilities, because they just 'redistributed' it to their asset.
i know legal systems where this form of value redistribution would be called theft.


but well, we accept it everytime we agree to the EULA.
since this move i dont expect to see a single buck from them.

i am curious, if this cut of liabilities would pass a court trial...


Partially right, but be aware that Lex retro non agit. Of course ToU and EULA might not be treated as official law - but still this is something you sign before you use the product. Important especially for depositors who were active before this 'EULA 6 months rule' was implemented. I need some time, it is of course as you claim, first, possible breach of most Accounting Acts (but very unlikely since probably they undergo some book audit from tax authorities when they pay) of many countries and second possible advertisement law breach as the main title say that EU is Real Cash Economy (Experience) - it's clearly not. This 'Experience' stuff added may change a lot here and makes it tricky. Is it then real cash economy? 100% no. Do you experience real cash economy in the game? Well, for the first 6 months you do.
Does any of you know what was the official advertising title on their website before that 6-months rule?

Sweden has some twisted accounting policies but it is an EU member so all the stuff is more or less universal. Funny how they report their liabilities, I'm gonna have to check previous way of reflecting this in their statements.
 
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Spawn

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Detritus

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You haven't uncovered anything special. This has been brought up plenty of times. AFAIK, MA hasn't been able to cover player holdings for a long time, pretty sure that's why they added the 6mo clause.
 

GoNi

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Change your point of view!

WE players are the bank, who give credits to MA/EU.

If MA fails we get nothing back, but if MA starts using the money we give them as we would like to see it used (develop the damn game, instead doing stupid sideprojects), then we surely will give them more money.

Its not all black and white, there is many grey areas in between.

Many players still trust in MA and the concept of EU, those that don´t do it, are already gone and that in fact is the withdrawls that already happend.

Sure there is some businessmen in EU that do regular withdrawls, and it works for them.
Many others don´t even intend to withdraw any time, although they hold a big value in items in EU.
Those players just enjoy the game as game, and don´t see it as an investment.

MA survived many years now, and there have been worse years for MA than 2017.

That they don´t have the cash to pay out all ingame assets, is really nothing new.
Do they really need it?
NO!

MA has some serious problems, they made this problems themselves.
If they advertise content, they simply should deliver it in a reasonable timeframe.

There is to many things still not delivered, thats why even the fanboys (for example me), lowered their deposits.
If they start to deliver the things promised years ago, this will change.
Its all up to MA.
Focus on the game, thats all what MA needs to do.
Bring on the things we are waiting for many years now.

If this starts to happen, there will see more positve threads in this forum and at other plattforms aswell.
With positv press you gain new players, and some of them (even if its a very small % rate of them) will become regular depositors and fanboys.
 

WoenK

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Thank you for this, it has just caused 180 degrees turn in my way of thinking about new player experience and advertisement.

It seems that there is huge difference between advertising you game as a "Real Cash Economy" and "Real Cash Economy Experience"

Well, this one simple sentence brings up tons of questions to me. I hope that I will have some time soon to ask them.

One could also simply read it like " if somebody transfers 100k USD to our account and after 7 months somebody else says, it's his, we keep it". For me it's just a clause to prevent them from fraud and money laundering issues.

Why ?

...because they still pay out! Even if you have not deposited as much as you a taking out (and even if some bitch it takes 3 months....if you really earned it it and got it, don't bitch)
 

Corwin

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Well, this is not unfortunately the case Jehereg. I do not care about your deeds returns – that is not the subject of my article. In fact, you could have even 10k % ROI on them, you could double your PED balance daily and hit 10 figures ATH tomorrow. It is all meaningless as long as MindArk don’t have your money and what is worse don’t have any source of new income because New Player Experience system fails and new players do not deposit enough (they admit it directly in their statement) and Deeptoken sales failed (recently announced - again, check the Note 18 of their Financial Statement - they considered this project to be a source of growth).

dude, i dont believe ur a new player. So i dont believe u dont have stakes on it.
Its all in the way u talk, you talk like a veteran.
 

yeeck

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.....

Sweden has some twisted accounting policies but it is an EU member so all the stuff is more or less universal. Funny how they report their liabilities, I'm gonna have to check previous way of reflecting this in their statements.


Can give an example ? I am just curious...
I thought FRS is common practice in Europe ?
 

yeeck

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dude, i don't believe ur a new player. So i don't believe u don't have stakes on it.
Its all in the way u talk, you talk like a veteran.


Corwin..... just let him post, there is no one ever post such details in the past 5 years here. Am I right?

We are in RCE. Any plan to grow this RCE should be reflected in their Financial Statements. And any method of accounting practice they choose, is a critical signal on how they see this RCE. Their financial statements are audited by PWC and it's not a joke. Not something you can just edit and hide.
 

Corwin

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Corwin..... just let him post, there is no one ever post such details in the past 5 years here. Am I right?

We are in RCE. Any plan to grow this RCE should be reflected in their Financial Statements. And any method of accounting practice they choose, is a critical signal on how they see this RCE. Their financial statements are audited by PWC and it's not a joke. Not something you can just edit and hide.

You are not getting the point, hes not trying to improve rce, hes probably a known trader that finished his stock and as long as he cant probably buy back his cld/aud stock hes trying to create panic so idiot will deprice theyre goods in order to sell fast and do the donkey run to withdrawal wich wont affect anything but his pockets.

This thing happened b4 in past, create panic when deed price are at his top, the fact hes doin it this plateal way means that people are just not buying it or that hes not seeing the usual yearly trends he used to, like cld always gets very low in february after mayhem, this year the trend is goin differently despite akoz selling out his 650 left wich are a lot all in one in the market, his purpose is obviously to make those deprice badly by scaring some noobs away and then contact a big liquidator in order to get a bulk.

dont get me wrong, im okay with depricing of stuff, ill throw myself in as well as i love it, tho i dont like this posts that spread malice around and contribute to a goin back of system and development of this diamond "we" have.
You can feel by they way he writes, he start calmly and then while his writing out u can feel he becomes more and more aggressive, like hes somehow holding grudge or more probably he cares more than he should.
And btw, i have a company, i keep it with the maximun debt and liabilites i can, as long those will keep you alive.
You owe them 100, its ur problem, u owe then a million, the problems is theyre, someone stated this b4, it does not applyes just to banks, but also to goverments and investors.

Wat he does not understand, is that in this game, if money are not already on witdrawal process, the 90% of it is in assets, people dont need to withdraw it, as long as for the people who plays this game those money have more value inside the game than outside of it. And its community who takes decision, the failure of deeptokens for example was dictated only and only by the community who due to scareness for theyre own money killed the project already in its early phase by just not supporting it, a big mistake we all did in my opinion, but with the sense of after the graves are fill.
 
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jetsina

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Their financial statements are audited by PWC and it's not a joke. Not something you can just edit and hide.
Well, it's perfectly possible to hide stuff, just look at cum ex or libor, for example. In the case of MA, there is unlikely to be an auditor anywhere who can really get to grips with what truly lies behind the figures which get presented. An auditor can only go on their own knowledge and what information to audit.

As the OP stated, not having known about the 6-month issue changed his opinion dramatically. If he's an expert in the field, then I'd not be surprised in his taking an interest in this unique example of a hobby of his (MMOs).
 

KokaBurra

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The game is too damn expensive for new players. 100$ are ok for a start, but 5k-10k$ to be a mid/high lvl player is wayyy too much
 
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The game is too damn expensive for new players. 100$ are ok for a start, but 5k-10k$ to be a mid/high lvl player is wayyy too much

10k bucks for a noob to be high level? id say thats not even close. for high level you need more like 20k to 30k bucks just for the equipment and then buying the skills will maybe cost another 50k if you buy em or maybe a little cheaper in losses for skilling which will take 2 years if doing it hardcore.
 

Detritus

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You are not getting the point, hes not trying to improve rce, hes probably a known trader that finished his stock and as long as he cant probably buy back his cld/aud stock hes trying to create panic so idiot will deprice theyre goods in order to sell fast and do the donkey run to withdrawal wich wont affect anything but his pockets.
(.......)

You can feel by they way he writes, he start calmly and then while his writing out u can feel he becomes more and more aggressive, like hes somehow holding grudge or more probably he cares more than he should.

Going with Corwin on this. There's something off about this whole thing. What would motivate a new player with presumably little invested to write like this? What's the reason for hiding his in-game identity? A new player who was genuinely excited/passionate/concerned about the new game he just discovered would have no reason to post these elaborate essays anonymously. And if he has a clearly negative early impression of the game, why bother at all? When I try a new game and I don't care for it, I just move on... I don't go read the company's fiscal reports and write a bunch of crap in the game's forums.

IMO it doesn't even read like something a real financial analyst would write. A lot of his stuff is just copy-paste from investopedia. To me it feels like he just researched these topics online and doesn't fully understand them. Even I caught the mistake about personnel costs, and I'm an engineer who doesn't know jack about business finance.
 

boring_player

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You are not getting the point, hes not trying to improve rce, hes probably a known trader that finished his stock and as long as he cant probably buy back his cld/aud stock hes trying to create panic so idiot will deprice theyre goods in order to sell fast and do the donkey run to withdrawal wich wont affect anything but his pockets.

Enough of this. As I said before I know we are talking real cash here and some emotions may be involved but I will not tolerate such speculative bullshit. In November, when I was setting up my account I did not even know what CLD is and how it works.

I'm getting busy at work my workplace since an end of previous year summary is staring. But to be honest, I started to feel that this forum has become very hostile. I do not know if it's worth to talk to people like you. Some of you behave like an alcoholic on a forced rehab or a Gollum chasing his ring.

In-game kindness and maturity of people made me think that people on the forum seem to be similar. Apparently, I was wrong.

A lot of his stuff is just copy-paste from investopedia.

Ask yourself, from which sources is Investopedia doing their "copy-paste" and maybe you will reach the real source I have used.

Even I caught the mistake about personnel costs, and I'm an engineer who doesn't know jack about business finance.

This makes you childish. Saying that you found something without actually indicating the mistake is making you look like a child who claims that unicorn lives under his bed but he won't show it to anyone.

Indicate the error and back it with reasonable source or business example, then we can talk like man, not like children.

A priori - I said I consider Personell spending as salaries and salary-related expenses. Mindark FS does not provide more data. They don't have to. Companies this size usually report all personell spending in one or two rows but this category is wide and can include all from: business trip vaccinations to coffee & fruit in the office, taxi services, team parties & gifts et cetera or external perosnell spending like office cleaning or legal advices.

It depends entirely on construction of Profit&Loss and company internal needs. I don't have access to MindArk accounting system - that is why I had to make an assumption.

All what is important from perspective of a Financial Statement external receiver is the total cost and average of employees.
Internal controls focus on the amount generated per particular personell cost centers but this information mainly reaches only internal board of directors who then basing on the received data make all presonell related decisions.

Try to find source of this information by yourself. Good Luck.
 
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Detritus

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This makes you childish. Saying that you found something without actually indicating the mistake is making you look like a child who claims that unicorn lives under his bed but he won't show it to anyone.

Indicate the error and back it with reasonable source or business example, then we can talk like man, not like children.

A priori - I said I consider Personell spending as salaries and salary-related expenses. Mindark FS does not provide more data. They don't have to. Companies this size usually report all personell spending in one or two rows but this category is wide and can include all from: business trip vaccinations to coffee & fruit in the office or external perosnell spending like office cleaning or legal advices.


Lol triggered much? You're the one getting petulant about this stuff in the same breath you are calling me a child. I already pointed it out, but I will again. In fact, what you say above even contradicts what you original said below:


According to MA Income Statement, Personnel costs (I expect this position to include Salaries, salary-related spending) in 2017 were equal to 27 599 451 SEK (3,216,719 USD). Statement claim that currently they hire 44 employees on average. It means that on average, one MindArk employee cost you 73,107 USD yearly, 6,092 USD monthly. That seems to be nice salary, isn’t it?

I tried to politely explain to you that personnel costs are not just salaries (which I guess you now know). Even if it were, an employee costs a company (in the US) on average 1.5x their salary, so your crude math would be wrong in any case, and I would think someone in business finance would know that... I suspect there's probably a lot wrong with your inane drivel, that someone who actually knows this shit could point out. Since I'm not in finance I can't. I'm going to stick with my gut, which is the reasons I posted previously, none of your story adds up or makes any sense.
 

mg Joda VVV

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Good read.

I hope, now the side projects have failed, to see a decrease in employees at mindark as obviously the larger part of their workforce was busy with those.

Either reduce personell spending or increase in developing the game.

Developing the game is show by releasing changelog's every update and when i read back the updates last year these have been extremely meager considering there are supposedly 44 people working on it.

And if u do more then u write, start tracking what u actually do and release that information. Instead of Ninja changes.
 

boring_player

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Even if it were, an employee costs a company (in the US) on average 1.5x their salary, so your crude math would be wrong in any case, and I would think someone in business finance would know that...

In Nordic countries it may be higher due to excessive taxation, additional salary befits, social benefits. Nordics law and their wealth distribution model combined makes those values high. Every company in their financial state would outsource part of the processes or reduce the amount of employees. They hired more instead.

Do you really want to go so deep in details? If so, I would have to start writing books here, not articles. When you write article sometimes you must make assumptions to make the reading understandable. Too much details will drive the readers away. Especially if those details are related to some areas like finance or accounting, which, maybe it's surprising to you, not everyone finds interesting. The core of the article is about business model based on trust, not about accounting principles.


Am I triggered? When someone clearly lies about me, what am I suppose to do? Today I was called a CLD speculator, you previously lied that I have some stake in this (what stake you think about?) or even said I must be some former pissed-off player. It's ridiculous. What will happen tomorrow? Will you accuse me that I potentially want to assassinate MindArk CEO or bomb their headquarters? Get sober.


Btw. Why administrator of this forum cancels my posts because I use external photos but does nothing when I am being harassed with false accusations and humiliating speculations? How are we suppose to discuss in such environment? Why do administrators allow this place to be like this - where you discriminate other instead of focusing on main topic?
 
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mg Joda VVV

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I tried to politely explain to you that personnel costs are not just salaries (which I guess you now know). Even if it were, an employee costs a company (in the US) on average 1.5x their salary, so your crude math would be wrong in any case, and I would think someone in business finance would know that... I suspect there's probably a lot wrong with your inane drivel, that someone who actually knows this shit could point out. Since I'm not in finance I can't. I'm going to stick with my gut, which is the reasons I posted previously, none of your story adds up or makes any sense.



To be fair, if u are not familiar with Sweden it might seem high, for quite a few other western european countries it would be high far exceeding average income, and even for sweden its definately not low altough Sweden has high average wages even for europe and high social premiums.
 

Detritus

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In Nordic countries it may be higher due to excessive taxation, additional salary befits, social benefits. Nordics law and their wealth distribution model combined makes those values high. Every company in their financial state would outsource part of the processes or reduce the amount of employees. They hired more instead.

FFS, that's literally what I said:

One point about salary data; personnel costs are not pure salary. I'm not positive about Sweden, but at least for most US companies each employee costs usually around 1.5x their base salary due to taxes and benefits - it's probably higher in a socialist country.

And it's still a contradiction to your original statement, you are just trying to brush it aside as "I didn't want to go into details and bore people".


Am I triggered? When someone clearly lies about me, what am I suppose to do? Today I was called a CLD speculator, you previously lied that I have some stake in this (what stake you think about?) or even said I must be some former pissed-off player. It's ridiculous. What will happen tomorrow? Will you accuse me that I potentially want to assassinate MindArk CEO or bomb their headquarters? Get sober.

This is just garbage, I'm not going to bother (and it wasn't me that said you were a former pissed-off player, btw). You sound like a 15-year-old Internet troll. I'm done, good luck with whatever your real motivation for all this is. :wtg:
 

Detritus

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To be fair, if u are not familiar with Sweden it might seem high, for quite a few other western european countries it would be high far exceeding average income, and even for sweden its definately not low altough Sweden has high average wages even for europe and high social premiums.

You missed the entire conversation, but ok. I actually said the wages were probably very low, under market rate. My point was he took the total personnel costs and divided by the number of employees to determine the average wage, which is certainly incorrect. Anyway I didn't want to focus on that, it was just a minor point that I noticed.
 

BackBone

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OP brought some interesting points to light. Doesn't matter his motivations, so long as the facts he says are true.
Instead of atacking the person, you could've just carry on discussing the topic. We could all learn something from this discussion.
 

Corwin

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Enough of this. As I said before I know we are talking real cash here and some emotions may be involved but I will not tolerate such speculative bullshit. In November, when I was setting up my account I did not even know what CLD is and how it works.

I'm getting busy at work my workplace since an end of previous year summary is staring. But to be honest, I started to feel that this forum has become very hostile. I do not know if it's worth to talk to people like you. Some of you behave like an alcoholic on a forced rehab or a Gollum chasing his ring.

.........

Try to find source of this information by yourself. Good Luck.

im an alcoholic but not on rehab sorry dude, still drinking proudly as long as my liver allows(for now).

But seriously, get the $/£( out of this game, thats pretty much wat community is telling you.

if you were a newbie then...
First u wrote a post where u state you dont like the game, ofc u missing about saying that this game is over 15years old and failed to compare it to one of that age, and i can understand that, we all want it to improve, and it will as it always happened. Second u wrote this post with malice or with a little knowledge and you expect community to support you? Most of us dedicate a lot of time in this game, we all have friends an enemies ingame we are ready to be competitive and fight against eachother but if you try maliciously to put our game at risk (not money, but game) we are pretty much all united ready to bite.

I would be more worried knowing i cant play and id lost all my skills then that id lost my assets value wich is nothing compared to the value of the time i spent ingame.

This game faced so many crysis u wont ever believe and if tomorrow mindark makes an ipo we are all ready to buy it back, as it happened in past.

That said if u consider that having 15 years old this game is like a tree, u only see it grow if u stay a while out of it and come back later but if u watch it day by day u dont see much difference

So in conclusion, i read and understand your topic and my answer is please cash out ur 1500ped and fly away as long as you dont feel "economically" confortable.

and yes i defnally think u are just trying to speculate, i can put my hand on fire when i guess that ur forum login ip have not any related game login ip.
 
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forgo

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I am not sure I got the point. But then again I have trust with Mindark. They pay every time, without issue. I know this because I have made many large withdrawals.

This is the hardest game you will play. Most people will retreat with losses, very few actually get the game. It is confusing on purpose. Most people choose a path that is against them, hunting mobs too big, clicking crafts that are too much, mining in areas they have never been, speculating where they know nothing.

I suppose it is a lot easier to write up a post about why the company is at fault...but really, it just seems you don't understand the game.

I played for 2 years, and walked away with 200k ped. I came back a couple years later and restarted again as a noob, and now am one of the top players. It can be done, and no you do not have to be rich. The only way I can afford to play is off the investments that Entropia provided cash for. My base income doesn't even cover the mortgage.

So If I can make it happen...maybe you can see why I don't get the point of this thread, I just see a more capable person giving up to confusion.

Step one would be to read the EULA for a change. A lot of your answers are in there. Primarily, the fact that all these liabilities you are afraid Mindark cannot pay...Mindark is legally not responsible for in the first place.

RCE does not mean, I deposit money and it still has value.
RCE means that in the game the economy allows the potential to make more, and then maybe I can withdraw it, but its not mine until then. Assume that everything you put toward the game is wasted. If you are clever, you will make sure to get it back. But for certain do not expect to get it done without a lot of research.


The opportunity that Entropia has opened for me is invaluable to have access to cash from time to time for things or investments that come up in life. I literally could lose the entirety of my account and still be very very happy with my success here. This game will make me a millionaire in the end (more than half way), because of those windows of opportunity and the ability to withdraw assets when they came up. This is what sets Entropia apart, there is no other game that allows real world financial opportunity to be realized on a whim. It is a tool and a useful one if you know what you are doing. Some people park money in accounts and let it sit, I just cycle it every day and try to actively grow it, until it is needed again. For example, all of my wealth is in real estate, I am very cash poor. If a tenant needs new carpet, I can ..and have.. said, "no problem, just give me three months." I don't have cash to cover it but I always have armor, or a ring, or something I don't really want to sell that I can, and I can be assured it will come in time to pay it all in cash with no interest.

Whatever you do, I wish you luck and success.
 
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yeeck

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You are not getting the point, hes not trying to improve rce, hes probably a known trader that finished his stock and as long as he cant probably buy back his cld/aud stock hes trying to create panic so idiot will deprice theyre goods in order to sell fast and do the donkey run to withdrawal wich wont affect anything but his pockets.....


I totally understand your comment and I am not going to disagree with it... Anyway, post like this is rare to be allowed. Let it be and let readers decide. Let it roll till the end.

Creating panic situation is common. Some players worried about their assets. Some owners/traders worrying about players leaving, and can't sell their items, no players to participate in their events. You can list all possibilities good/bad, at the end, everyone has their own purposes.

Should thanks God for the whistle-blower for the fall of ENRON, right? Before it getting worst.....

If you can comment on OP this way, I am very sure you have tons to comment about MA/EU too BUT to improve MA/EU/RCE ? Definitely not going happen at this moment. Look at what they been doing...
 

Orion

Old Alpha
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Apr 19, 2005
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762
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Germany
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Crimson Devils
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Eleria 'Orion' Starwind
i liked reading the thread, when it was about the financial details.

since it turned into territorial pissings it lost its meaning.

can we concentrate on the initial question again?
please return to facts only.
 

yeeck

Dominant
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Posts
418
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yee yeeck ck
Well, it's perfectly possible to hide stuff, just look at cum ex or libor, for example. In the case of MA, there is unlikely to be an auditor anywhere who can really get to grips with what truly lies behind the figures which get presented. An auditor can only go on their own knowledge and what information to audit.

As the OP stated, not having known about the 6-month issue changed his opinion dramatically. If he's an expert in the field, then I'd not be surprised in his taking an interest in this unique example of a hobby of his (MMOs).


Come on... u are telling me, Sweden's laws are not strict ? easily to be broken / get away or people easily being corrupted and get away with it ? You are saying Auditor just check the sign off the Audited Accounts?

I am not going into details, and I assumed that you understand Auditors, their works and code of conducts. Finding a truth and fair view is not 100% achievable BUT there are more than just analysis, findings, documentation & controls to be evaluated.

If you think answering an audit queries is piece of cake? For 1st 2nd 3rd, maybe is easy to convince... let see the 4th.

Anyway, Auditors wont take this forum article as findings. Why so serious?
 

WizKidWord

Young
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Jan 2, 2019
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Jacob WizKidWord Rockwell
i liked reading the thread, when it was about the financial details.

since it turned into territorial pissings it lost its meaning.

can we concentrate on the initial question again?
please return to facts only.

Exactly this...was a great read till things got derailed

A bunch of conspiracy theorists it seems idk lol

Regardless, it hasn't deterred me from playing

On Berycled III now btw ;) gotta get that anatomy!
 

mg Joda VVV

Prowler
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Posts
1,239
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mg Joda VVV VVV
Step one would be to read the EULA for a change. A lot of your answers are in there. Primarily, the fact that all these liabilities you are afraid Mindark cannot pay...Mindark is legally not responsible for in the first place.

RCE does not mean, I deposit money and it still has value.
RCE means that in the game the economy allows the potential to make more, and then maybe I can withdraw it, but its not mine until then. Assume that everything you put toward the game is wasted. If you are clever, you will make sure to get it back. But for certain do not expect to get it done without a lot of research.

Sweden has freedom of contract which is the freedom of private or public individuals and groups (of any legal entity) to form nonviolent contracts without government restrictions.


The EULA is a contract, and just like any contract it can be tested in court, and it can fail such test and can be nullified completely or partially if it does not comply with local and EU consumer law, or fails to comply with regulations imposed on the instituation or its instruments.

What complicates the matter is that EU does/did have a banking license (to lazy to find out wether this is still accurate) and might be subject additional regulation on a national and european level.
 
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