Money is power – MindArk business model based on (lack of) trust.

yeeck

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If you agree with everything the rookie says, who seems specialized in the games owned by the MA competitors, why do you torture yourself staying here? You should take your money and leave the game. It is the most logical, is not it? Why do you spend your time trying to convince others? :scratch2: what is your interest or motivation? :scratch2: (4 me, sky is NOT falling)



BINGO! Finally one said it here in Page 12. Please take note!
 

yeeck

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i think there's alot more to add on topic, instead of attacking the people who still feel to state their opinions here, whoever they are. quite a ton on EU players don't even post here anymore, because of people alike those everyone can clearly notice here himself...


Just let the whole thread active, run till the end and see those comments.
In somehow, you will see the similarity on how same people comment, the same style and the same way.

Doesn't matter if the person is defending or attacking MA/EU thingy. The EU world map is getting smaller. Let see who is who from now.

Doesn't matter he/she is traders, trollers, whiners, white knights, expert in this or expert in that, it will all goes down to the end. Money money money RCE rce rce... matters.

Some smart can even tell people off, spend less time in writing, concentrating more in game playing. WOW!
and don't forget it, someone quoted it, " MINDARK only provide the sandbox. It's up to the players run the show".

When you said, this is game for rich people. There are tons of comments to defend that comment.

When you said, expensive to buy, poor loots, expensive to get. Some one will said, this game is not for you.
 

GoNi

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To be fair, if u are not familiar with Sweden it might seem high, for quite a few other western european countries it would be high far exceeding average income, and even for sweden its definately not low altough Sweden has high average wages even for europe and high social premiums.

I dont know Sweden aswell, but I know what IT specialists earn in germany, and I know what costs beside the pure salery employees cause.
In germany the sidecosts can double the personals cost compared to the pure salery, caused by tax, social insurance, bonuses regulated by law (holiday money, christmas money).

In fact in germany an IT specialist for just 6k€/month (personal costs, not salery) would be more likely a cheap one than a real pro!
 

GoNi

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Funny, that if a regular player gives an opinion, first reactions are references to his/her entropia life page.
If this isnt 100k+ in globals then you should just stfu because you dont turn over enough to have an opinion.

Although my EL tracker says I am above your estimated total needed to have an opionin this statement is complete BS.

There is unlucky players who simply never hit big.
There is low level grinders, that rarly get a real global, and with 10 PED lowish globals 100k global count is hard to reach.
There is teamhunters and shared mob hunters, that don´t create EL tracked personal globals.
There is investors that operate a business in EU without going for globals at all, but surely provide a service for others.
There is some planets where globals are simply not tracked into EL, as there is not enough EL clients running.

So this BS calling someone who don´t hit globals has no rights to state his opinions about EU here in the forums should stop!
 

GoNi

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Which game hasnt?
Tell me a game where there are players sticking around for 15+ years?
EVE online
WoW
OGame
Just 3 that come to my mind.

My problem lies with his advice he glued to that post.
"NO", dont ped your money in.
That triggered my reaction.

Get some game experience first to make such advice.

Well, from financial standpoint (bankers view), this advice isn´t totally wrong, as it is "VERY HIGH RISK" investment.
Would a serious banker give an advise to invest into greece, or would he give a warning about this "VERY HIGH RISK" ?
You don´t need game experience to analyse financial reports and calculate the risk of an investment, you need financial skills, thats it!

What should MA do when you don't log in anymore. Send you flowers?
Isnt the welcome back hof enough? :rolleyes:

Maybe just ask WHY, some haven´t logged in for several month.
I played another game for a while, and when I got bored and deinstalled it, I received a mail from the developer with exactly that question: Why did I deinstall the game!
Its not rocketscience to generate a routine to ask this question and autoreport the answer to the support/developer team.

The welcome back HoF is myst, really don´t think there is any game mechanics behind that.
 

wizz

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Just 3 that come to my mind.



Well, from financial standpoint (bankers view), this advice isn´t totally wrong, as it is "VERY HIGH RISK" investment.
Would a serious banker give an advise to invest into greece, or would he give a warning about this "VERY HIGH RISK" ?
You don´t need game experience to analyse financial reports and calculate the risk of an investment, you need financial skills, thats it!



Maybe just ask WHY, some haven´t logged in for several month.
I played another game for a while, and when I got bored and deinstalled it, I received a mail from the developer with exactly that question: Why did I deinstall the game!
Its not rocketscience to generate a routine to ask this question and autoreport the answer to the support/developer team.

The welcome back HoF is myst, really don´t think there is any game mechanics behind that.

Why are you still here?
 

GoNi

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I usually never agree with Messi, but he also stated it many times, people fail and leave due to their expectations.

The ones that left mostly left because they didnt get what they expected to get.

Or they simply did not get what they PAID for:
Landplot / 9 CLDs
Voting rights for CLDs
Avatar Statues

The ones that stuck around learned to manage these expectations and accept the short commings of MA.

So if MA advertises that there will be a SPACE TRANSPORT MISSION, that pay back the fees collected for interplanetary auction transports (or at least a part of it), its my fail to expect this to come within a reasonable timeframe (somewhere less than 5 years?)

If they advertise a sideproject (Compet) that is directly linked to EU and then you see there is no link at all, its wrong expectations from the investors.

Sorry mate, MA has to delvier easy as that, but they to often don´t deliver at all.

Telling me that my expectaions are wrong if I simply expect that MA delivers what they advertise, then you are completely wrong here.

In germany we have a law:
If a company advertises a service/price and you find out that they don´t offer that service/price, you can force them by law to deliver that service/price.

Thats where MA fails big!
In germany MA could have serious legal issues with their advertisements and what they really deliver.
I don´t know about sweden laws about that, and I am to lazy to read it up.

Expectations how the games work for myself is one thing, and I know that my expectations could be wrong there.
I agree, many players expect way to much, and they will be very disappointed if they notice it.
Thats not MAs fault here, as the game is designed how it is, and a lot very experienced players share knowledge and give you a hint what expectations could be real or what expectations are pure dreams.

That has nothing to do with the expectations of investors, who make investment decissions based on MA advertisments.

To be honest, the bad reputation MA earned over the last couple of years are simply caused by themselves, simply by not delivering what has been advertised.

Some of my old friends cashed out and quit especially because of that, and not because they had a couple of bad runs and lost money. This players have been used to have losses on their activitys and there was nothing wrong with it.
Its because they trusted into MA advertisements and MA never delivered.
 

boring_player

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Good to see some posts actually discussing the subject itself. I hope that the conversation we have here will bring some conclusion which can lead developers the way for 2019 and beyond.

Let me swiftly refer to some of your claims:

Now, this guy comes telling us all we should not put a penny in, and we all act surprised and take him so serious.
My problem lies with his advice he glued to that post.
"NO", dont ped your money in.
That triggered my reaction.

Well, I know that the article is a subject for interpretation but all I wanted to do here is to comment the drop in the sales. I only said that the drop in the sales happened because many of you simply do not use Webshop anymore or reduced the money you spend there. I only commented simple facts.

My intention was never to tell you what you should do with your money. I clearly said in this thread was:

I do not want you to quit or join the game. I do not want to take away your pleasure you have while playing the game. I am a liberal – I believe you should do whatever you want to do and spend your money in whatever way you like as long as it does not hurt innocent people. I do not judge anyone.

And in terms of economics I back traditional Adam Smith's classic attitude, I consider all people Homo œconomicus. If it triggers you, I will rephrase my words from the article:

Sales are dropping, there is no new source of revenue for MindArk now so if you believe in the project and you want to back the people who stands behind it, follow those two steps:

1. Do not request significant withdrawals for now - it may hurt MindArk further.
2. Throw some money at them if you are willing to - buy some stuff from the Webshop whatever they sell there so it will bring some money directly to MA corporate bank account and will keep them more stable.

But as I said, the choice is fully up to you. I will never force you to do anything with your money. I respect you and the way you spend you money. Some people support financially church some don't, some buy beer and some buy juice, some loose all in casinos and some save up for children's future, some support orphanages and some spend all in go-go clubs et cetera.

Moreover, below words are interesting to me:

MA has always been deaf and blind to us.
And still we play in their sandbox.
Yes, MA has the reputation to do that.
Many times.
And many times the sky fell.
Many times everybody rage quited because of this.
And still, we here.

In my first article my conclusion was that community accept buggy MMO because it brings nice casino-thrill and some dopamine shot with it. Thing was clear to me as long as one guy on the forum told me that actually MindArk guarantees only the deposits from past 6 months to be withdrawn. Only deposited amount. Not the money you 'win', 'loot' or whatever. So you can basically tell that there cannot be any casino-thrill experience because, as we know, regular casinos always guarantee you to pay you all you win.

So my conclusion was practically wrong, it's not the casino thrill for sure what makes people play. What then? What you find interesting, what keeps you going. I am very curious about it.

Let's go further:

I can look back at a fantastic period I had here and would mourn more over the loss of the universe than the loss of my PED. And that's exactly what the OP doesnt understand

I understand believe me. I understand because I know how it is to care about something/someone and how it is to be afraid to loose it. The difference is just that you care about Entropia and you are afraid to loose it and I don't care about it because it is another game in my 'Gaming CV'. I simply have other things to care about. We all care about something don't we? We just care about different things - that's life.

See ? You are ignoring my question and ignoring my advice to you... don't do too much stories-link and assumptions.

What am I missing exactly? To which post are you referring to, I'm a bit lost I guess. Without assumptions I would have to write a book here, not an article - I said it already.

And also, what is this acronym 'EL' you are referring to and why is it so important when you are talking about right to speech and value of the comments.

And last but not least -you have asked so many times about my motivation that I had to actually sit and think again why have I exactly done what I've done. For sure, MindArk's finances are nice case-study for me as their business profile is very interesting. At that time I thought you could freely withdraw all the money, that kept me asking so many financial-related questions and check their actual financial situation. Since I know now that they do not guarantee all withdrawals, most of my financial-related questions are answered.

Truth is that MA can live this way forever, it's a gold-rush for them. Make people think they play real world economy and convince them to 'invest' in this 3D world real money. In fact you just 'Experience' the real cash economy - that, I think, why they call the game Real Cash Economy Experience, not directly Real Cash Economy. I accept this as an answer to my question how they manage to be still alive with 10,54 million player debt.

I also wrote all those articles during my work-time (don't tell my boss :)) when the workload was not so big and I had to make the time pass somehow. And I just also like to write.

Still the most important to me is: What makes you play? What keeps you going then if it is not the casino thrill?

regards,

boring_player

and btw.

Tell me a game where there are players sticking around for 15+ years?

WoW, Tibia, Ultima Online, Anarchy Online, Second Life...
 
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I dont know Sweden aswell, but I know what IT specialists earn in germany, and I know what costs beside the pure salery employees cause.
In germany the sidecosts can double the personals cost compared to the pure salery, caused by tax, social insurance, bonuses regulated by law (holiday money, christmas money).

In fact in germany an IT specialist for just 6k€/month (personal costs, not salery) would be more likely a cheap one than a real pro!

tbh a real pro it specialst wouldnt work in germany. he could earn easily tripple of what he would get paid in germany in another country
 

wizz

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Because I am a dreamer and fanboy!

Hope is the last thing that will die!

Now, that's just exactly what I meant!
Exactly this is what the OP did not factor in!

:thumbup:
 

I need $

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We are just bunch of ppl with stockholm syndrome :wtg:
 

wizz

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wizz

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...

And also, what is this acronym 'EL' you are referring to and why is it so important when you are talking about right to speech and value of the comments.

... At that time I thought you could freely withdraw all the money, ..
.

EL stands for Entropia life
http://www.entropialife.com/
This tracks most the globals/hofs in the universe (but isnt always accurate due to mentioned reasons)

You CAN freely withdraw your money. At any time.
Sure, if we would all do that, MA would go bankrupt.
As will ANY bank in this world when a bankrun happens.
 

GoNi

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In my first article my conclusion was that community accept buggy MMO because it brings nice casino-thrill and some dopamine shot with it. Thing was clear to me as long as one guy on the forum told me that actually MindArk guarantees only the deposits from past 6 months to be withdrawn. Only deposited amount. Not the money you 'win', 'loot' or whatever. So you can basically tell that there cannot be any casino-thrill experience because, as we know, regular casinos always guarantee you to pay you all you win.

So my conclusion was practically wrong, it's not the casino thrill for sure what makes people play. What then? What you find interesting, what keeps you going. I am very curious about it.

Well for some it definately is the casino thrill, you are not completely wrong here.

For others its a business, and actually they do regular withdraws.

For me it is the challange.
I am an MMO RPG experienced player aswell.

So why I stick with EU and not with EVE or Anarchy online?

Its fairly easy to explain. This other games are way to easy. With a little dedication you can reach top end without any problem.
Example:
EVE online, I owned a low Sec POS, was in business to build titans and was Mrds ISK heavy, the day I quit!
Anarchy Online, I was Level 210 PvP Trader, the day I quit!

There was nothing more to achieve in this games.
Many other subscription based games have the same issue, its to easy. There is no challange at all once you reached the high end content.
Even in free to play games like Maestia (RIP), it was not very challanging to get to top end, without depositing.

EU is completely different.
1. Open skill system, theoretically there is no end, it just gets harder with every level you gain.
2. Risk of bankrupt, you never ever will end up with many millions PED no matter what you do in EU.

This 2 aspects are a real challange for the player in EU.
Thinking is completely different: choices what you do or not do are much more important than in any other game.

A player in EU is limited to his PED balance, to manage that is not easy.
Sure you can deposit insane amounts of PED (pay to win, or pay to skill, no matter how you want to name it), but thats not my way. The challange is break even, very hard to achieve even with best gear and high skill, you need real brain and game knowledge to achieve this.

How much someone spent is up to each one himself.
Just dont invest more than what you are willing to lose, as the risk of loss is more than real.

Although the game mechanics and the total game design is weak compared to other games, its much more challanging, and therefor for more fun than other games.

Sure I liked EVE and Anarchy online and a lot other games very much the time I played it, but without a challange the games become boring. In EU the challange never ends.

With some serious game development EU could become the best MMO on the planet, sadly MA seems to be blind to see it.

The whishlist thread in this forum is full of many nice ideas, brought in by different players.

ND once said: You have to believe and never give up!

Think that sentence is one of the best statements about EU ever made.
Its a game for true believers and fanboys.

The RCE concept makes this game challanging, and thats why so many love it and hate it the same time!
 

KokaBurra

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10k bucks for a noob to be high level? id say thats not even close. for high level you need more like 20k to 30k bucks just for the equipment and then buying the skills will maybe cost another 50k if you buy em or maybe a little cheaper in losses for skilling which will take 2 years if doing it hardcore.

5k-10k$ i referred to eco skilling up to atleast 80lvl(hit) , skill exchange should be changed to skill transfering mechanism and end GSI/ESI era. There is just too much skills in the game, 900% (esi) makes most skills totaly worthless
 

Robotek

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That's pretty much some work for someone who don't care... :computer:

Indeed. There is a chance that the op loves to write walls of text and do analysis etc., but there is even a bigger chance that he got some other agenda, rather than just enthusiasm and lecturing other ppl.

+rep but I can`t atm, gotta spread It blablabla:)

Cheers,
Robo
 

WizKidWord

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Some SUPER paranoid people in this thread lol
 

BackBone

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Im sick and tired of all these paranoid people. OP brought interesting subjects to light and uses valid arguments. All you guys use to counter argument is talk about his motivations!

Keep on topic! Bring some valid arguments to the table!

I find it extremely interesting the fact that MA has only 10% of all the money ingame and that it added in the EULA that only assures the last 6 months of deposit. This thread already taught me something interesting and i would love to learn more.
 

morey

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I find it extremely interesting the fact that MA has only 10% of all the money ingame and that it added in the EULA that only assures the last 6 months of deposit. This thread already taught me something interesting and i would love to learn more.


10% is pretty normal. Fractional Reserve Banking. % can change based on country's laws.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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Im sick and tired of all these paranoid people. OP brought interesting subjects to light and uses valid arguments. All you guys use to counter argument is talk about his motivations!

Keep on topic! Bring some valid arguments to the table!

OP didn't brought anything new here..

His post is a nice shiny package, but an empty one. :deal:

I find it extremely interesting the fact that MA has only 10% of all the money ingame and that it added in the EULA that only assures the last 6 months of deposit. This thread already taught me something interesting and i would love to learn more.

It seems that you play this game for 12/13 years, and so I feel sorry for you that you learn this only today..

As for the 10% thing, you should worry more about your bank accout cause it's the same there.. :yup:
 

Detritus

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Some SUPER paranoid people in this thread lol

Im sick and tired of all these paranoid people. OP brought interesting subjects to light and uses valid arguments. All you guys use to counter argument is talk about his motivations!

Keep on topic! Bring some valid arguments to the table!


I don't think that people are paranoid so much, it's just that OP isn't stating anything that wasn't already brought up plenty of times before and well known by most. Sure, not everyone reads every thread, so maybe this is news to some people, great. There's no counter-arguments because there's no argument to begin with. I think for some it's more interesting to try and figure out why an allegedly new player who supposedly doesn't care about the game and won't give his identity is going through all this effort, than to discuss his relatively uninteresting "facts" that were already public knowledge. It's like one of those mystery shows on tele. :smoke:
 

BackBone

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It may be, but for sure there is more SUPER naive people.. :rolleyes:

Everyone praised him on his previous thread, where he reviewed the game. Now all of a sudden he is a bad person, with hidden motives and trying to hurt MA. You guys are really paranoid...

His last sentence on his review was: "Hope this article will help devs to make this gaming experience better because the whole project is unique and has huge potential."

You seem to have missed it.
 

BackBone

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OP didn't brought anything new here..

His post is a nice shiny package, but an empty one. :deal:



It seems that you play this game for 12/13 years, and so I feel sorry for you that you learn this only today..

As for the 10% thing, you should worry more about your bank accout cause it's the same there.. :yup:

Maybe you are an expert in economics and can understand the MA's annual financial report. We normal people aren't... So i thank OP for explaining it in a simple and understandable fashion (even though he might have simplified stuff and made some assumptions).

I play this game for the thrill and fun, not for the money. So i dont delve into the financial report.
 

WizKidWord

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It may be, but for sure there is more SUPER naive people..

What are his motives?
Who is he in game?
Is he really a new player?
Does he work for a competitor????
Hes a disgruntled, grumpy, old player who lost money!!!

I may not be the most intellectual person on this planet but this comes off as paranoia to me

Who cares? This is a forum....meant for discussion...meant for peoples thoughts

He merely posted some facts he stumbled on that made his think box spark up

He stated he loves to write and had down time at work, not everyone functions on the same frequency

He didn't say dont play the game, MA is a scam company, blah blah blah

Also, being a new player, he has not derailed my goal in enjoying the game

Make money, lose money, makes no difference IMO, you are paying for entertainment, period

If you don't enjoy your time, withdraw and move on in life....quite simple

Maybe it's just me, I don't know

Anyways, off to Caly to kill more berycleds lol (on mission III for those who care :) )
 
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