More crits is less loot? loot 2.0 bug?

Shamshe

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Shamshe Shamshe Shamadarak
Hi all,
I have noticed there is a significant difference in the loot on a mob if you crit multiple times on that mob. its even more noticable when u kill mobs that you can 2-shot if you crit 2 times. Everytime that happens the loot is under 1 ped on mobs that give an average of 2.5 ped on a kill. It happens every single time so I don't think it's just bad luck.
Is it possible this is a bug tied into loot 2.0? It feel kinda rigged. Why would a go for extra crit on rings and pills if the loot is less anyway? feels kinda stupid in my opinion...

thoughts on this?
 

If he want more crit, than crit is good, i think its enough proof.
 
not a bug - the extra crit damage is not counted as an event. you gain more dpp as a result of the crit because you've now dealt more damage for the same amount of ped input, but because you didn't put extra peds into the system so you can't claim more loot for the same amount of effort.
 
not a bug - the extra crit damage is not counted as an event. you gain more dpp as a result of the crit because you've now dealt more damage for the same amount of ped input, but because you didn't put extra peds into the system so you can't claim more loot for the same amount of effort.

Yes. Loot 2.0 means you are payed for a kill according to your input. Before loot 2.0 you were payed based on an average input that was 3.15 dpp. So if you had 4 dpp, you would tt profit.

What many don't understand is that dpp is still extremely important, it means you spend less for the markup gained.
Stop looking at irrelevant numbers (what you get per mob) and look at the important numbers (efi, dpp).
 
If he want more crit, than crit is good, i think its enough proof.

so because he is Messi he cant be mistaken?

not a bug - the extra crit damage is not counted as an event. you gain more dpp as a result of the crit because you've now dealt more damage for the same amount of ped input, but because you didn't put extra peds into the system so you can't claim more loot for the same amount of effort.

How does this make a crit more preferable if you get back less then a normal hit, like how do you get more dpp from a crit if the loot is an equation to when u dont crit? doesnt that make the dpp the smae on a normal hit as on a cit. Yeh you spend less ped to do the inital hit but the loot is less in equation to the loot you would get when you dont crit. Thats what I thought was the bug.

lets say I crit 150 and get 1 ped back or i hit 3 times with no crit and get 3 ped back. the dpp is higher when U crit agreed, but it means nothing if the loot gets scaled down according to the ped you spend.
 
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lets say I crit 150 and get 1 ped back or i hit 3 times with no crit and get 3 ped back. the dpp is higher when U crit agreed, but it means nothing if the loot gets scaled down according to the ped you spend.

That is true for TT in -> TT out. But with DPP what matters is TT in -> markup out. The less you pay for the markup you get out, the more PED you get from converting your (hopefully) TT-costs to loot. This is what matters.

EDIT:

Stop looking at irrelevant numbers (what you get per mob) and look at the important numbers (efi, dpp).

^This right here says it all:
1. Get efficiency, Get looter skills. To improve TT-returns (Tests available on forum to "prove" it makes a difference)
2. Improve DPP. To reduce your costs, which effectively makes the markup you get out cheaper (Over time)
3. Cycle.
4. Sell
 
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so because he is Messi he cant be mistaken?



How does this make a crit more preferable if you get back less then a normal hit, like how do you get more dpp from a crit if the loot is an equation to when u dont crit? doesnt that make the dpp the smae on a normal hit as on a cit. Yeh you spend less ped to do the inital hit but the loot is less in equation to the loot you would get when you dont crit. Thats what I thought was the bug.

lets say I crit 150 and get 1 ped back or i hit 3 times with no crit and get 3 ped back. the dpp is higher when U crit agreed, but it means nothing if the loot gets scaled down according to the ped you spend.
Look at the answer right above. Markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup ...
 
Yes. Loot 2.0 means you are payed for a kill according to your input. Before loot 2.0 you were payed based on an average input that was 3.15 dpp. So if you had 4 dpp, you would tt profit.

What many don't understand is that dpp is still extremely important, it means you spend less for the markup gained.
Stop looking at irrelevant numbers (what you get per mob) and look at the important numbers (efi, dpp).


If he want more crit, than crit is good, i think its enough proof.
Look at the answer right above. Markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup markup ...

well if you get less loot the mu is also less no? clearly I am missing something here :D
 
well if you get less loot the mu is also less no? clearly I am missing something here :D

Sounds to me like you need to do some DPP-testing, or find the results of someone else who has done it :)
 
well if you get less loot the mu is also less no? clearly I am missing something here :D
Yes you are missing something. It's just a matter of perspective. The key is that you egt the same amount of MU but with less cost. Hence the loot composition is better, in a way that the shrapnel is less.
For example, in a very very high regen mob, a highly efficient hunter can put in 300 ped while a super low efficient avatar, low dpp, can put in 450 ped. The mob will give the same components/oils, but 150 ped extra to the low efficient mob. So the efficient hunter can do 3 mobs in 900 ped and the low efficient hunter will do only 2. The efficient hunter got an extra mob for the same buck, but also got extra MU from the 3rd mob.
 
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I dont understand your confusion... More crits = less spent. Less spent = less loot.

But i asure you that criting a lot will give you better returns long run since your DPP rose because of crits.
 
well if you get less loot the mu is also less no? clearly I am missing something here :D
Not in relation to what you actually spent. Sorry for the rather plump attempt to draw your attention to it, again our friend above has put it accurately.

As a sidenote, markup of course is only realized when you find buyers. Hence a significant part of the game happens on the market. And the market is rarely consuming things as fast as we're producing them. This is surely not telling anyhing new, but I'm currently in doubt whether striving for highest possible loot quality is always the best thing to do if you want to keep playing "in the flow". A good measure of shrapnel makes this much easier, as long as the cost is manageable. Finding that sweet spot is a challenge since there are no generic rules you can apply. Specific items to pursue with maximum dpp do exist, but if everybody played the same niche, any value in it would evaporate.
 
Yes. Loot 2.0 means you are payed for a kill according to your input. Before loot 2.0 you were payed based on an average input that was 3.15 dpp. So if you had 4 dpp, you would tt profit.

What many don't understand is that dpp is still extremely important, it means you spend less for the markup gained.
Stop looking at irrelevant numbers (what you get per mob) and look at the important numbers (efi, dpp).
Does this mean I get less loot for the same animal if I spend less to kill it? I am punished for good management/cost saving? That´s insane!

Minimaxing/being economical is the whole point of the game (if there is any point) and the quintessence of good play. Instead, they are making it useless.
 
Well, let's do some fake test math to see a theoretical higher DPP via crits
Caveat: These are fake numbers just to show basic math concept. Don't get caught up in the specifics.

-----------------------------------
Start ped = 100
mob hp = 100
cost/shot = 1 ped
dmg = 34
shots needed = 3
Cost/mob = 3 ped
avg loot = 3 x 0.9 = 2.70

after 30 kills
cost = 3 x 30 = 90 ped
ped left = 10
loot = 90 x 0.9 = 81
81 loot + 10 ped left = 91
-----------------------------------
Now imagine all shots are crits
Start ped = 100
mob hp = 100
cost/shot = 1 ped
dmg = 34 x 1.5 = 51
shots needed = 2
Cost/mob = 2 ped
avg loot = 2 x 0.9 =1.80 (less loot per mob than above)

after 30 kills
cost = 2 x 30 = 60 ped
ped left = 40
loot = 60 x 0.9 =54
54 loot + 40 ped left = 94
-----------------------------------

More overall ped and can still kill more



However, this line causes me to pause
its even more noticable when u kill mobs that you can 2-shot if you crit 2 times.
It appears to say that in your runs, this is happening

1 mob
2 shots to kill
2 ped cost
loot = 2 x 0.9 = 1.8

1 mob
2 shots to kill
both shots crit
2 ped cost
loot = 2 x 0.6 = 1.2

Does that concept match the general idea of what you are saying?
 
Does this mean I get less loot for the same animal if I spend less to kill it? I am punished for good management/cost saving? That´s insane!

Minimaxing/being economical is the whole point of the game (if there is any point) and the quintessence of good play. Instead, they are making it useless.

you're being rewarded with better loot composition...

instead of 33% shrapnell/66% MU loot you may get 1% shrapnell/99% MU loot....
Also you get more loot events for the ped spend, which increases your chance for good tt-return...
 
This is my p.o.v of it: Every interaction you do with a target and using same set up it will have a linear cost
per interaction.
Damage and non-damage interactions are just a part of the tool to controll amount of interactions.
If you reduce the amount of interactions with e.g a crit you will get less interactions with target, and
if you have a set up that fits the target really good a crit will scew the value for loot build up.
Btw, DPP is not a mechanism, its a statistic.
 
Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors. This system is intended to reward game knowledge, which has traditionally been an important and unique aspect of success in Entropia Universe, and to provide opportunities for participants to improve their loot returns via experimentation, optimization and specialization.

Improving dpp, dps means better opportunities for finding interesting loot and items. But you want to be careful with overkill damage at the same time in loot 2.0 as it will also negatively affect loot composition.
 
you're being rewarded with better loot composition...

instead of 33% shrapnell/66% MU loot you may get 1% shrapnell/99% MU loot....
Also you get more loot events for the ped spend, which increases your chance for good tt-return...
I think what he says is in 2.0 tt return/ped will be always about the same, no matter how eco efficient you are....

That is MA wants to win not against the majority of players (which would be fine with me), but against every single f***ing player. No chance to win against the house; nada.
 
Use a calculator and check the difference from Barbarella compared to a normal Bukin + A101.
This small difference grows with each passing hour.
By default, the loot is shrapnel.. there are zero-efficiency weapons that prove this. So i accept that Efficiency replaces shrapnel with another items, which is our goal.

With critical you make more kills for a certain period.. With higher efficiency you take more markup.. markup.. markup.. items ..
So by reducing costs to kill and increasing markup.. markup.. markup.. items.. by efficiency, you increase your chances of winning. This includes the critical ones.

Entropia has two main dynamic components, Dynamic Rate and Dynamic Cycle. If you hunt for a longer period of time, you will notice that every 20-40-60 .. or 140 minutes there is a difference in the return of the prey.. then comes the Globals and depending on the rate they are large, normal or smaller than desired. After which a new cycle begins, better or worse.

If you kill creatures that are too weak for their weapons, you will be at a loss for the most part in a long hunt. This also applies to larger creatures because you will have fewer kills.

So the practice shows that Bukin + A101 is good for Cornundacuda, but not for Caudarteshits. Becouse you will take more markup items and because the biger mobs gives big values(GLOBALS), your next global can be much better than Caudarergus one. And in the end you will spend the same ammo for the same time.

You make a mistake because you calculate each of the above components for a kill, but the system calculates it at the end of each circle, depends of your gun and its dynamic rate. Take on focus HP mob biger than 80-100, but for your wallet a month and just shoot.

More Crit.Hit/DMG/DPP/Eff = success. Everithing else is gambling.
 
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MUs are irrelevant for my argument. In the case of MUs, you win purely at the expense of other players. There would be still zero chance to win against the house.
 
MUs are irrelevant for my argument. In the case of MUs, you win purely at the expense of other players. There would be still zero chance to win against the house.


Each of your losses goes to a pool that can be won by each participant ... but so can you. And practice shows that the more participants there are, the smaller your losses are and the pool also increase.

Markup is the only element you can rely on if you want to make a profit.

Like it or not, this is Entropia.
 
Each of your losses goes to a pool that can be won by each participant ... but so can you. And practice shows that the more participants there are, the smaller your losses are and the pool also increase.

Markup is the only element you can rely on if you want to make a profit.

Like it or not, this is Entropia.
No, this is faulty thinking.

My losses do not go to any "pool"; they go directly to MA, period.

With MU, I do not profit from any "pool". I am profiting from the specific person who buys the item from me.
 
No, this is faulty thinking.

My losses do not go to any "pool"; they go directly to MA, period.

With MU, I do not profit from any "pool". I am profiting from the specific person who buys the item from me.


I see, the people like you fucking my gameplay every single day. You dont wanna use your brain, you want to want.. so..
This is not LOL, WAW or Ho HO ho.. and you will never can exchange your gold for real money =)


ps. im ready for LAL party, do you want a team?
 
I see, the people like you fucking my gameplay every single day. You dont wanna use your brain, you want to want.. so..
This is not LOL, WAW or Ho HO ho.. and you will never can exchange your gold for real money =)


ps. im ready for LAL party, do you want a team?
I don´t know what you are talking about.
How could I fuck your gameplay? I have been in the game for 3 sessions and not interacted with anybody so far. Mostly been observing.
I am just telling you my conclusions, and I am pretty sure they are correct.
MU is paid for by other players; that´s mathematical fact. And it´s hope-based; they will not get it back, unless they sell at even higher MU to a third player.
What I pay for ammo and stuff goes directly to MA, not to your loot potential, another fact.
 
My losses do not go to any "pool"; they go directly to MA, period.

That is where you are wrong.
Not all of your losses go to MA.
It’s actually only about 5%~
However, there is a portion of your losses that do go into a loot pool that is available to all participants.

A special hunting bonus pool will be implemented that will distribute funds from various sources, including skill misses, PVP, marketing and special events, which will improve overall loot returns for all participants.
But not limited to..

Being able to kill more mobs, in a shorter amount of time, for the same amount of ped, creates more potential loot events and better opportunity for interesting loot or items.
Wave events are still a thing, but less predictable than before.
 
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