Nerfed mobs cause Radar imbalance

[dbelinfante]

I have found the following and am interested to hear other opinions.
It would seem that the range at which mobs appear on radar is tied (at least in large part) to mob HP. Why do I think this?
When hunting far West of Hadesheim, the Neconu's and big Troxes used to show much further away than small Troxes and Armaxes. So it was a fair assumption that if it showed at the edge of your radar, it was dangerous.

Now it's all screwed up. Atrox Matures show almost at the edge, but Neconu Guardians still show where they always did, which is about halfways between the edge and the inner circle. A Neconu Guardian can still crit me to death, whereas any Trox I'll meet there is mere fodder.

The way it currently works is plain stupid. The radar/mob analysis system needs an overhaul, and it needs to display mobs according to threat level. The bigger the danger, the further away it should be shown on radar.

Your thoughts please.

 

[Harmony.]

I disagree, a neconu is small so should be less visable. I think the range of where you can see a mob should be determined by the actual size of the mob.
Not the threat level, that is just a way to make it more easier for lazy players.

 

[Baradur]

My thoughts exactly!

Troxes, feffs, ambu (to a certain maturity), molisks... they all show up at the edge of the radar wich can be quite confusing when you enter an area with mixed mobs and poss. dangerous mobs...

For example south-west of Zeus: there are harmless feffs... but there are also annoying and more dangerous Tezlapods....(old and provider can be a pain in the a** when not wearing the correct armour) ... the Tezlapods show up way closer on yr radar then a feff bandit...

Another example:

Molisk guardian (wich is fairly easy) shows up at the same distance as a molisk leader (wich can kick your butt unless you have 250 HP, and a big fat armour - fap)

..

So yes, an overhaul might be needed..

Cheerio
BB

 

[NastyCenturion]

I think i'ts ok how it is now

 

[byubi]

I disagree, a neconu is small so should be less visable. I think the range of where you can see a mob should be determined by the actual size of the mob.
Not the threat level, that is just a way to make it more easier for lazy players.

I agree on the size, and I would add aggro.

 

[dbelinfante]

I disagree, a neconu is small so should be less visable. I think the range of where you can see a mob should be determined by the actual size of the mob.
Not the threat level, that is just a way to make it more easier for lazy players.

It's not just Neconu though. A Feffoid Warlord shows at the edge, and a Scaboreas Guardian less than that.
You guess which is harder to kill, and has less trouble killing you.

I don't regard the radar as analoguous to a RL radar. I think it has (or should have, and used to have) some form of threat assessment system inside it. And now it's all hung up on HP.

If people think it's ok now, how did they work it before the HP nerfs?

 

[Mega]

I agree about Neconu certainly, been insta-killed by those on a few occasions, not even realising they are close by.

Trouble is, if you suggest this, Mindark would probably 'rebalance' by increasing Neconu's and similar mobs HP significantly so that they show up further away.

So be careful.

 

[Executor]

I disagree with the idea that radar should figure size of mobs. We have eyes and we can see a Spider more easily than a Gibnic. If radar was related to size we would not need it.

I agree with the idea that the radar should figure the threat. I consider the threat is a combination of several factors from the mob: HP, regeneration, aggro, speed, damage and crits frequency.

This combination is unfortunately subjective and impossible to satisfy everyone. According to the hunter equipement (weapon / armor) and skill, some of these factors are more or less significant.

Probably MA had this issue because of more mobs with high regen. Maybe the easy solution was to use only the HP factor?



Another related topic is, when we have 20 red dots in our 50m circle, we should be able to identify danger. Maybe small dots for Gibnics and larger dots for the Spider just behind?

(And I do not estimate I think as a lazy hunter. IRL we could hear the creatues approcahing, or smell them etc... We do not have our 5 senses in EU, so a little help is ok.)

 

[Mega]

Another related topic is, when we have 20 red dots in your 50m circle, we should be able to identify danger. Maybe small dots for Gibnics and larger dots for the Spier just behind?

Nice idea, but would likely just mean your radar would be just a red circle in thick spawns of Ambu for example.

 

[Fat Fock Frank]

some thought

One option might be to have the more "dangerous mobs" blinking on the radar.. can't be that hard to have a feature like this. U see red dots as a rather easy mob and u see one red dot blinking indicating this is a tough sob..
. Just a thought
I think it would be fairly easy to spot the blinking one on radar..

 

[dbelinfante]

As far as I know, it used to be pretty simple: Dangerous mobs were visible on radar from further away.
I want that situation back.

 

[McCormick]

It was this way before...should be an old bug that returned...quiete common in PE...

 

[Tree-doctor]

Mabe all of that is linked with ur PERCEPTION skill

oups !

 

[NastyCenturion]

If people think it's ok now, how did they work it before the HP nerfs?

i dont get it ... all mobs appear on radar before they can agro u so the distance is ok ...


When u hunt something u know what to expect of mob maturity and threat so i dont know how it would help u if u see a neconu guardian at the edge of the radar or at half distance ... it wont agro u untill it enters the central circle.
Instead of that if they make atrox provider and old, that agro from much higher range but have less damage threat, appear from less farther i think it would be more annoing

 

[jdegre]

totally agree with the OP.
the whole purpose of that feature is to figure out the threat potential of a mob (before you actually see what it is), so you can decide what to do.

when dmg and HP was more related to each other, it made sense that the radar shows the mob's HP, but now it does not make sense at all (at least in the current status when only half of the mobs are "adjusted").

 

[Pretender]

i think mindark will overhaul the radar stuff with CE anyway. altho i'd like to suggest (and hope Marco or Frank reads it) to make it like it was intended to. meaning: last time the overhaul happened, a spider would show up at the edge, and you could almost trip over a fugabarba before you would see it. which was fair (altho i used some extreme examples) b/c of the thread assesment. however, mindark should code it in a way that also the enhanced (shall we name it that way?) mobs are done like that, meaning they will show up later. however, they should still show up on your screen no matter the distance, so that people with good perception (not the skill ingame, but IRL) should spot creatures farther away. meaning that view range should not be limited to 200 orso meters, but rather to ~1000 meters, and the radar should just be an helpfull asset to determine if something dangerous is coming (like an avatar in pvp, or an spider) so we get a "notice" of sorts. this would also allow for guns with longer range to be implemented in further updates, and good sniping could help out in pvp.


hmm, i think i should put up a wishthread in the wishlist section with this information, should i not?

 

[dbelinfante]

Mabe all of that is linked with ur PERCEPTION skill

oups !

Hope not. I now perceive Merps from further away than Hispidus.

 

[McCormick]

i dont get it ... all mobs appear on radar before they can agro u so the distance is ok ...


When u hunt something u know what to expect of mob maturity and threat so i dont know how it would help u if u see a neconu guardian at the edge of the radar or at half distance ... it wont agro u untill it enters the central circle.
Instead of that if they make atrox provider and old, that agro from much higher range but have less damage threat, appear from less farther i think it would be more annoing

In the old times even a combibo was visible at the end of the radar. Now a red dot should be something big at that range and you wont get dissapointed finding a combibo young behind the hill.

 

[Usurper]

Yes, something IS definitly up with the radar.
Mobs showing at the edge was Instant-death mobs only before like Spiders and Falxangius and stuff of that magnitude.
Now a Atrox Guardian shows all the way out to the edge but that's
not a mob i'm pariculary concerned about.

It seems that MA forgot to adjust the radar to match tne new HP's on the mobs.

 

[dbelinfante]

i dont get it ... all mobs appear on radar before they can agro u so the distance is ok ...

It's not that simple. If I saw dots at the edge of radar before, I knew they were dangerous. Now it doesn't mean anything anymore.
Vice versa, a mob that only appears halfway my radar could be more dangerous than one at the edge. I want to know which ones to go around, and which ones I am after. I can no longer tell this from radar.

When u hunt something u know what to expect of mob maturity and threat so i dont know how it would help u if u see a neconu guardian at the edge of the radar or at half distance

I basically am able tell what mob it is... Or I used to be. I was able to tell them all apart just from where they appeared on radar (knowing of course which type of mob was in the area).

 

[Tree-doctor]

Its mabe a robot attack. they distrub our radars.

 

[Etopia]

The new radar is total crap anyway...
I prefer the old one , more circle , no shit blur effect , and more precise...

 

[NastyCenturion]

maybe .....



i just dont use the radar that much i trust only what i see through my scope

 

[dbelinfante]

i just dont use the radar that much i trust only what i see through my scope

Hehe. Nothing beats visual confirmation.
But I do use radar a lot, or used to. Atm, it's pretty useless for the way I hunt.

 

[Sloe]

I agree in general, except that i think u underestimate feff, trox and other regen mobs cause of ur lvl and equipment. Yes, for u and me they are a piece of cake, but for someone with an opalo or any weapon that isn't quite decent dmg/sec, they are UNKILLABLE. CANNOT be killed, no matter the number of revives or how persistant u are, whereas neconu for example can b by anyone with enuff patience and money i guess. So i do agree that some mobs should show a bit further, neconu being a perfect example, but i think the regen mobs' place there is deserved too. We gotta think that not everyone can take one out, some simply can't no matter how much they want to, so it IS a hard mob. Hell even i avoid trox cause they cost to much to kill often and i'm about to unlock wounding and combat sense lol.

 

[Lugzan]

what I hate the most so far is the freaking ambu young, from the very edge of the radar... give me a break - it dies before reaching me! >(


J.

 

[Executor]

I agree that having bigger dots for "bigger" mobs would not be perfect in some area over populated. Having a radar 95% red would not help. (Although it could be amazingly scaring... )

The idea of blinkings dots is better but not perfect because, if we assume the danger level is represented by the blink frequency, our eye will need to look several milliseconds on the radar in order to estimate the overall area. Now, we can look 1 millisecond, the image is copied into memory and eye can go back to the screen.

To fix the isse of "what factor is to be represented" on radar (HP and or agro etc) the ideal would be to have several buttons like for the chat. You enable them and the radar consider the chosen factors. (Clearly for the wishlist, right?) But this would work for the 3 types of radar possibilities (Range / Dot size / Blink)

 

[Sloe]

Lugzan, sure for u, but some ppl CANNOT kill one PERIOD, even if they pump 200 ped ammo into it. So have consideration for the others it's not quite as easy as u say unless u buy a gun that has roughly 200% markup. Yes u can do one with a korss, but talk about uneco lol.

 

[Lugzan]

Lugzan, sure for u, but some ppl CANNOT kill one PERIOD, even if they pump 200 ped ammo into it. So have consideration for the others it's not quite as easy as u say unless u buy a gun that has roughly 200% markup. Yes u can do one with a korss, but talk about uneco lol.

oh come on, some people can not handle daiki young aswell

I simply say, it is not balanced, how the dots are shown on lower maturity nerfed mobs.

carry on!


J.

 

[dbelinfante]

I agree in general, except that i think u underestimate feff, trox and other regen mobs cause of ur lvl and equipment. Yes, for u and me they are a piece of cake, but for someone with an opalo or any weapon that isn't quite decent dmg/sec, they are UNKILLABLE. CANNOT be killed, no matter the number of revives or how persistant u are, whereas neconu for example can b by anyone with enuff patience and money i guess. So i do agree that some mobs should show a bit further, neconu being a perfect example, but i think the regen mobs' place there is deserved too. We gotta think that not everyone can take one out, some simply can't no matter how much they want to, so it IS a hard mob. Hell even i avoid trox cause they cost to much to kill often and i'm about to unlock wounding and combat sense lol.

Very good point, hadn't thought of that. +rep.