NEXT YEARS WoF (input)

Hurrikane

Slayer
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Posts
8,358
Location
Bristol
Society
GloryHound Irregulars
Avatar Name
Oscar Hurrikane SkyQuake
Hi, this thread is here for good and it's a sticky one: it's for all of you who have had ideas for how the Tournament would better be run next time round.

Obviously changes will be made, this was the virgin run after all; no-one could have expected it's rise in status to become the top hunting event ever held in EU.

I have my own ideas, and already have a list of suggestions for yourselves and even MA, but i would appreciate any and all non-stupid input into making next year's Tournament an event that puts EU on the map.


Please think through your suggestions before posting, taking all opinions into account. Lets have this a valid research thread for future improvement, yeah?

Thanks in advance,

Hurrikane
 

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
I've suggested to Hurrikane already that next year's event should have entry requirements. There must be limitations on the participants who can enter. For instance;

1 Avatar over 100 Agility
2 over 90 Agility and under 100 Agility
3 over 80 Agility and under 90 Agility
4 over 70 Agility and under 80 Agility
2 under 70 Agility

Or something along those lines perhaps with shown (un-hidden) pro. standing ranks (or taking the Combat Profession average)
 

Dusk

Elite
Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Posts
2,715
Location
In the Auction House, selling my shit.
Avatar Name
Trinity Dusk Trinity
I think the size of the current team hunts (4 members) works perfectly. I would suggest a larger squad of players - perhaps 15/16 - although I suspect Hurrikane may not be so keen due to the additional work it will generate. I'd also like to see 2007 team members get first refusal for places for 2008, more so if Hurrikane likes the larger squad idea. :)

I read somewhere that more than one team per country could be entered. I feel that this is a bad idea, personally. Look at any real world sporting event - I'm certain it never happens. And what would happen if you have a final of both teams being from the same nation? It wouldn't feel like an international final, IMO.

Only other thing I would suggest is that the groups are mixed up between rounds. Not re-drawn, but with a planned route to the final. My own country (England) played Ireland at stage two (the first round after qualifying) and will play them again in the following round. It should be set so that the only way two teams from the same group stage can meet again is in the final of the tournament.

Hope these thoughts help.
 

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
Only other thing I would suggest is that the groups are mixed up between rounds. Not re-drawn, but with a planned route to the final. My own country (England) played Ireland at stage two (the first round after qualifying) and will play them again in the following round. It should be set so that the only way two teams from the same group stage can meet again is in the final of the tournament.

I agree with that. :wise:
 

Oracle

Elite
Joined
Apr 29, 2005
Posts
4,505
Location
Sheffield, Yorkshire, UK
Society
Scorpio
Avatar Name
Oracle Kev FountofWisdom
I'd be OK with either Hurrikane's or Akiran's suggestions.

Pretty sure that in some major sporting events there are, eg, 'A' and 'B' teams...I think, eg., Olympic Bobsleigh have more than one team per nation...or is this just qualifying?

And not uncommon for teams to play each other more than once either, eg. football European Cup in group stage then later in knockout and in Olympic events, eg. qualifying stages.

Main thing I'd vote to change next year is the 'pk allowed' ruling.
 

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
And not uncommon for teams to play each other more than once either, eg. football European Cup in group stage then later in knockout and in Olympic events, eg. qualifying stages.

Yes, but the way it was done in the WoF we could end up playing Ireland 3 times.

Main thing I'd vote to change next year is the 'pk allowed' ruling.

Yeah, well, you can't always know who the pKer is working for. However, just avoid mobs in PvP zones would be easier and keep the sense of fair fun.
 

Mags

Alpha
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Posts
541
Location
Australia
Society
The Dung Kickers
Avatar Name
Madge Mags Moran
There should be some kind of handicap built in
Like in yacht racing .... or some other sports.
Not sure if agility is the one to go by. People may have 110 agi and chipped out all other skills or someone may have 57 agi and fully chipped up.......
Then you have equipment etc etc. do you eliminate all adj, imp and mod equipment and all use equipment whithin a specified range.....

Will be all be hard to do somehow.

and yes, we should not have to play same country, unless you reach the finals.......
 

AkiranBlade

Slayer
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Posts
9,392
Location
UK
Society
Shaolin
Avatar Name
Akira AkiranBlade Kurusowa
There should be some kind of handicap built in
Like in yacht racing .... or some other sports.
Not sure if agility is the one to go by. People may have 110 agi and chipped out all other skills or someone may have 57 agi and fully chipped up.......
Then you have equipment etc etc. do you eliminate all adj, imp and mod equipment and all use equipment whithin a specified range.....

Will be all be hard to do somehow.

and yes, we should not have to play same country, unless you reach the finals.......

...

Or something along those lines perhaps with shown (un-hidden) pro. standing ranks (or taking the Combat Profession average)


;)
 

MrWizard

Prowler
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Posts
1,086
Location
PA, USA
Avatar Name
Benjamin "MrWizard" Slider
I don't think there should be any entry requirements, simply because its designed to be an event for everyone. Now that its known, I imagine there will be ALOT more teams next year. And creating multiple teams from different countries will allow more people to participate, but I'd say put a limit to how many teams from a country, say 3 at most.

I'd say PKing by team members shouldn't be allowed. There is no way to know who's playing support though, so support teams can Pk all they want. As it is now, kill stealing should not be allowed and a definite penalty should be set out beforehand so people know what they're getting into.

Maybe since many lower level people dropped out, we could create 2 brackets...a Junior and Senior bracket to allow more of the lesser skilled people to participate. Your highest Pro Standing would determine which bracket you could join.

And highest priority....Hurrikane, you've done an amazing job, but you've gotta delegate some stuff. Form a committee to run it so you don't have to be online for every single hunt. Jboy helped a bit with the graphics and such, but this last hunt and the fact that alot of it was re-scheduled around Hurrikane's vacation schedule proves that we need more than one person at the top. Nobody wants to diminish what Hurrikane has done, but he needs help especially with the expansion that the event will obviously undergo next year.
 

Stryker

Elite
Joined
May 1, 2005
Posts
4,020
Location
VA, USA
Society
Warants
Avatar Name
James Jimmy Stryker
With the eventual feature of the drop/add of members, it wasnt so much of an issue, but when I signed up as the last member of the original team, I was a bit worried. It was first come first serve, but I realized there were many other well equipped Americans that could better represent our Country.

Now, the members of the original team USA were more than enthusiastic towards the team as a whole, and gladly gave up their spots after competing. But it would be nice if there was a "Junior Varsity" team event so to speak, perhaps only a round or two so more people from each Country can be involved, but overall I firmly believe that as we are fighting for our respective Countries, we should send out the best possible team we can muster.

For next years WoF, Im not exactly sure how it would work, but I believe 1 person from each team should be chosen to select players to be on the main team, and once their desired personnel are on the team, others sign up; as stated I feel that the best of the best should represent their Countries. It may sit well with the other potential sign-ups to play a supporting role as these strike teams have risen in popularity over the last couple of rounds.

Basically, I feel our team has the best Americans EU has to offer thanks to a very understanding original core, for which I am proud. Im just hoping next year we can skip the hoops we had to jump through to get to that point ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: jak

Joser

Stalker
Joined
May 30, 2006
Posts
2,294
Location
New Mexico
Society
Church of Lootius
Avatar Name
Octavius Joser Rex
With the eventual feature of the drop/add of members, it wasnt so much of an issue, but when I signed up as the last member of the original team, I was a bit worried. It was first come first serve, but I realized there were many other well equipped Americans that could better represent our Country.

Now, the members of the original team USA were more than enthusiastic towards the team as a whole, and gladly gave up their spots after competing. But it would be nice if there was a "Junior Varsity" team event so to speak, perhaps only a round or two so more people from each Country can be involved, but overall I firmly believe that as we are fighting for our respective Countries, we should send out the best possible team we can muster.

For next years WoF, Im not exactly sure how it would work, but I believe 1 person from each team should be chosen to select players to be on the main team, and once their desired personnel are on the team, others sign up; as stated I feel that the best of the best should represent their Countries. It may sit well with the other potential sign-ups to play a supporting role as these strike teams have risen in popularity over the last couple of rounds.

Basically, I feel our team has the best Americans EU has to offer thanks to a very understanding original core, for which I am proud. Im just hoping next year we can skip the hoops we had to jump through to get to that point ;)


I'd like to add that I would be proud to be a 3 year "JV" letterman. :laugh: I guess what I'm really getting at is that I also feel a Sr. and Jr. bracket would be more fun in allowing for more participation. The thing about it that makes me worry is the logistics.
 

Bogette

Alpha
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Posts
570
Avatar Name
Shaz Bogette Monaro
I think the group scoring needs refining a bit.

In certain groups for example lets look at Group 1 in the Stage 3.

Currently we have in order:
Eudoria - won one match
Sweden - won two matches
Scotland - won one match
Denmark - haven't won.

Now because of points Eudoria is at the top. Since the matches are against a single oposition I would like to see that wining of a match to rate higher than a massive loot fest in one match.

Some competitions look at the outcome of the match first and then consider a net point rate.

So in your group you would get 2 points for a win, 1 for a draw and 0 for a loss. If there is a draw on points you can then look back at comparitive points.

This stops a single huge hunt dominating the group ladder results. This removes some of the other variables such as "heavy global times" as a factor to the group ladder.

Cheers
Shaz Monaro
 

majorputty

Old Alpha
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Posts
852
Location
South Africa
Society
RNW
Avatar Name
Major Fluffy Putty
A Junior and a senior team is a good idea(but only this 2 per country), but the matches should not take place at the same time, to avoid confusion for the judges and if they are needed for the support team. (It could be on the same day).
The points for the junior and senior team should be separate, so if might be 2 different countries winning the junior/senior round.

I feel that each country should pick a leader and the leader pick the team.
The leader could have qualifying rounds internally, but it should be up to him, how he pick his team.
I am going with Stryker on this, you want your best players doing the hunting.
The others can help with the support. The support is just as important as the hunting team, just think of all those globals that was not on the list, they could have been the actual mobs and added more points.

-Reality is that everybody wants to represent their country, but to be one of the 4 players hunting, you need the peds to hunt 3 hours no stop.
-You need people that will follow the chain of command, does not help some player decides he knows better and run of on his own.
-Avoid people saying they are from your country just to fill up the spots and does not show up.
-There are many other reasons for having a leader pick the team.

4 players hunting is a good number.

I would say make the team as big as 20 – 25 players, to allow the support to be part of the team. And from those players you can choose 4 to do the hunting. (You do not really want to drop people out of the team. )

There will always but unhappiness within countries, like any other sport, but that has to be sorted out within the country team, discreetly. You represent your country, keep the problems internal.

I think one of the reason Hurrikane is on line for all the matches is to have the same 'Judging' for all the teams. The Judges run decisions past Hurrikane so that we do not make different calls on issues. This helps keeping the event professional and we get a feel for things to take into consideration for the future.
I am sure for next year all the issues will be in the rules, so that the Judges can make a call easier.
Yes there has been a couple of issues so far, and it has been handled well.

:beerchug:
 

miky

Dominant
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Posts
411
Location
France
Society
Via Dolorosa
Avatar Name
Miky mik Oban
First, great job for WoF 2007 Hurricane ;)

My suggestion for 2008 :

- Locked team before the beginning of the event so things will be more clear for everybody (ubber hiring we saw in WoF 2007 is a bit confusing)

- Have some restriction about entry in a team (perhaps sort ppl on agility or so on) but make that in a way, all kind of ppl (noob, mid-level & ubber) could enter in the event and not just best ubber of each country. I have no precise idea of how to doing that but I think this kind of event have to include the maximum of ppl

- Avoid (as far as possible) that team which fight in earlier stage, fight again in another stage (I dislike the way you do that this time ;) )

But, dont change too many things as the spirit of WoF as you are running it this years is the best event I ever see in EU :)
 

Viking

Stalker
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Posts
1,594
Location
Sweden
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Balder Viking Vikingsson
I think the group scoring needs refining a bit.

In certain groups for example lets look at Group 1 in the Stage 3.

Currently we have in order:
Eudoria - won one match
Sweden - won two matches
Scotland - won one match
Denmark - haven't won.

Now because of points Eudoria is at the top. Since the matches are against a single oposition I would like to see that wining of a match to rate higher than a massive loot fest in one match.

Some competitions look at the outcome of the match first and then consider a net point rate.

So in your group you would get 2 points for a win, 1 for a draw and 0 for a loss. If there is a draw on points you can then look back at comparitive points.

This stops a single huge hunt dominating the group ladder results. This removes some of the other variables such as "heavy global times" as a factor to the group ladder.

Cheers
Shaz Monaro

What are we? chopped liver? *proud member of team eudoria*
;)

Since points is the way to go, than there's no problem who won more matches or not. You can in theory lose all three matches, and still go on to the next stage i reckon?. Does it matter tho? It's points for global that counts anyway. And in case of a draw, one can look at won matches. I think that's why it's there right?

A massive loot fest is no guarantee to win anyway. One team can get 1-2 uber hofs for let's say 2x2500 ped and still lose, since points counts.

Better to play through this WoF first, and discuss what to change after imho.
 

kygon

Slayer
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Posts
8,970
Society
...Asylum...
Avatar Name
Kygon Shr00m Infraction
recruiting a larget team of 'helpers' to ensure standard times thruout... THE only thing I'd change,

and maybe open up the mobs choice for each round.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Posts
80
Society
Freelancer
1. I think it isnt so good to set a sr. and a jr. team,it still should be mixed.
There are countrys with 2-3 good skilled players and alot low-midlvl players.
So it wouldnt allow the Highskilled player to join the Event:scratch2:
The Timeslots make it also impossible for the sr.'s to do any Stage at the same time-some ppl Work IRL

My Opinion : keep it mixed

2. Another thing is the Pk thing......
if u choose to add Amathera mob's,they should be at LA's where is no pvp zone,
i think MA would set also Mob's to a unclaimed LA on Amethera

It is a International Event wich should show Fairness and Respect to everyone,and Pk'ing isnt a part of Fairness and Respect.
I know it it a Part of the Game -but no reason to add this as Part of this Event:rolleyes:


3. The diffrent Points from Mob's per stage-for exsample Stage 4.....
smal Feffo 3 points and Chomper 8 Points?:scratch2:

It is a big Mistake to give less Points to a low lvl Mob:wise:
U all should know that it is harder to get a global from a Feffo Outcast as from any Chomper or from a Snable as from Falx.




The currently situation with the Part of PK'ing is made only for Ubers with with highend gear because most Points go to a pvp Mob:duh:
 

Fairy

Dominant
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Posts
391
Location
Sweden
Society
¤ Home ¤
Avatar Name
Fairy Cat McCoy
I like the idea of "first come first served" really, since it allowes anyone to take a place in this fun tournament, yes its serious too, I know that, but if we forget to have fun on the way, what have we won then, an item? :scratch:

If one "captain" would choose the team, he would most likely fill it with ppl he alredy know, or already wellknown ppl. The power of new friendships would get lost.

I mean look at Eudoria, we arent ubers, well some are, but not all of us, and we have manage to come quite far in this event. And we have done that with teamwork, pooled our strengh together and become friends and working together towards the same goal. Thats the real prize in this event. :hug:

That the team is set at 12 ppl i think is very well balanced.
12 ppl can go into one team for hunting / talking or whatever they want to do in preparation. Also by adding more there are more ppl that shall cooperate, agree on times, and generally get along.
Less than 12 would make it too hard to field a 4 ppl scoringsquad.

If the team got unactive members or ppl that arent fitted for / devoted to this, we have got the tool to handle that too, since the team can kick ppl.
And as alredy been said, the teamspirit itself made ppl leave to make room for more skilled representants for their country.

The thing i would like to change would be the setup for the stages so one dont meet the same opponent so often.
And maybe to have a weekend "free" between the stadges would be good to calm the family, not everyone have them in the same competition ;)
 

falkao

Stalker
Joined
Oct 25, 2005
Posts
1,993
Location
Italy
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Marc falkao Falk
I hope that till the next WOF the communication interface permits to chat also with non team or non soc members, like a chat with selected entries from FL.

Moreover, what I appreciated most in WOF in the beginning was that every team had the same chances and this can be seen form the results. It was not aimed to skills or equipment. With stage 3 however things did change and when I see to the end I’m rather sure that only skills and equipment will count.
 

Hurrikane

Slayer
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Posts
8,358
Location
Bristol
Society
GloryHound Irregulars
Avatar Name
Oscar Hurrikane SkyQuake
I hope that till the next WOF the communication interface permits to chat also with non team or non soc members, like a chat with selected entries from FL.

Moreover, what I appreciated most in WOF in the beginning was that every team had the same chances and this can be seen from the results. It was not aimed to skills or equipment. With stage 3 however things did change and when I see to the end I’m rather sure that only skills and equipment will count.

I hesitate to say this because I'm not totally sure of the actual figures, but I think if the scores were based on skills and equipment alone, some teams would be in a better position? A close look at the old match reports see "good" teams scoring low and the other way round... I think the scores have now increased not only because of the filling of teams (with Ubers and "regular" players) but because the Tournament is sinking in, Teams are figuring tactics that best work within the Rules, and scoring more than they could before when the Tournament was an unknown quantity.

There's still room for surprises before the Final:)

Hurrikane
 

Zapforker

Alpha
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Posts
651
Location
Austria
Society
cK Coat Killers
Avatar Name
Zap Zapforker Forker
my wish for next year would be that every team has to use the same weapon and armor setup.
for example: korss 400(L) + Rascal (L)

plates and fap and such everyone can use what he wants.

That would be the most fair imho... ;)
 

Hurrikane

Slayer
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Posts
8,358
Location
Bristol
Society
GloryHound Irregulars
Avatar Name
Oscar Hurrikane SkyQuake
my wish for next year would be that every team has to use the same weapon and armor setup.
for example: korss 400(L) + Rascal (L)

plates and fap and such everyone can use what he wants.

That would be the most fair imho... ;)

LOL if it were my vote to decide, it would be Bravo + finisher only:)
 

safara

Mutated
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Posts
14,683
Location
Chair
Society
The Disturbed Ones
Avatar Name
Angel Spike Sunny
Musing over a sunny Saturday post hangover beer...

I like the points others have already made :-

1. Changing the group teams around in between stages. And if enough countries have teams next year etc, having quater finals etc. So winner group A plays Runner-up Group C, Winner Group C plays runner up Group A etc etc

2. I really like the idea of having graduated teams, as AB detailed. Each team is allowed 2 x 100 agility plus, 2 x 80 agility plus, 4 x 70 etc etc. Not sure on what the criteria should be, but it would give those that have the will and the desire to fight for their country a chance of making it in the team. Instead of having a team made up entirely of Ubers etc.

3. 2 teams for a country would also be an expansion of this. Not really an A team and a B team (A made up of ubers and B made up of the regulars) But 2 teams made up with the same graduated criteria.

This beer is nice and cold :beerchug:
 

Jimmy B

Indioni Jones
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Posts
12,256
Location
UK
Society
Skillin' Villains
Avatar Name
Oni
I think next year all of the competition should take place in OLA-32.
 

Serica

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Posts
5,356
Location
Australia
Society
Antipodean Army
Avatar Name
Harena Serica Turbinis
Hurrikane,

I loved being able to participate in WoF this year. I've made new friends, hunted waaaay above my usual level, and seen places that I would never normally dare to go.

As the least skilled player on our team (about 2.5k rifile when we started), it would have been so easy for Mags to dump me in favour of an uber player. Instead she has encouraged me (and the other 'junior' members) to stay on the team and participate, even if only in a support level.

For next year, the only changes I could suggest would be:

1. Some different way of choosing the team groups ... it would have been nice to have competed against one of the other teams instead of a re-match against USA.

2. The introduction of a 'best and fairest' award - for a player and/or team. For those not familiar with this sort of award, please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_and_fairest

Thanks for the opportunity to be part of this great event,

Serica
 

BlackHawk

Elite
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Posts
3,929
Location
Bucharest
Society
ROUA
Avatar Name
Black Hawk Hawk
This event should be open to all people. Now you have a reason to whant to become uber. Now you can invest for fun. When all people could kill most mobs with opalo+amp is what they did. Nothing else. Uber was a noob gun+big amp. We have to move away from that point. We have to have a purpose in skilling and gearing.
From the begining it was expected that a uber team would win. And is normal in a way to be like that. I think is almost imposible to beat USA for example, but loot is not just in skill and gear, so we all have a small chance.
May the best team win!
I think that in future there should be more than 4 mobs on each run. That will expand the event on both continents or space and it would make room for alot more strategies... And pvp easue would not be so much of a problem.
 

majorputty

Old Alpha
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Posts
852
Location
South Africa
Society
RNW
Avatar Name
Major Fluffy Putty
How about keeping the mob list the same for each year.
 
Top