No player ever comes out ahead.

[MistyDawn]

100ped of ammo costs 100peds, no more, no less, it's the same every day

loot is dynamic, some days you get more loot per 100peds of ammo and other days you get less.

now, to put that into your milk analagy:

you buy a $1 bottle of milk and pour it into a bowl in your garden...

some days you get 2 cats coming in your garden to drink it and on other days you might get six cats, a hedgehog and a fox...

 

[Brooklyn]

Need to know your cow
​

 

[DRDoom]

What drugs are you taken?
What interests me the entire nett profit, turnover, tax from MA, cost for their serverparks, supermarket stuff etc. They can make billions of money, thats ok for me.

The only thing is
I'm interested about "my" fee with activities (hunting, mining, crafting). Decay ?, Part of loot ? is it dynamic ?, is it for every player with same doing the same etc. Where can i read these fee infos ?

If they take a part from decay, why dont they post on their Homepage => We take 3% from your decay !!!
What is so difficult ? Every Service RL or Online you know your fee's, except here.

Falke

No, not atm.

If you don't open your eyes and keep yelling: "where's the light?", you'll never see it.




What you wanne know?
How much return you'll have on 100 ped?
Go hunt for 100 ped , TT everything and see what you have left.
Maybe this answer satifies you, since you are blind or unable to comprehend the answers and the effort I took to give them to you.

I'll stop discussing now with you since it obviously has no use.
But be my guest, if you say that so easy and normal, next time your in the supermarket ask someone there how much profit they take on their goods. And how much of the money you spend to refill the racks. Since you want to know and it's so important to you that you know what they do with your money...

Or maybe this will help: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Business+economics+for+dummies
[YOUTUBE]ZHFH8m2qw_U[/YOUTUBE]

 

[falkao]

If they dont post facts about this, in my eyes they change it just as it is necessary.

There are many reasons why they don't reveal it. This is one of them.

If they need more money they take more, reverse the same.

It's not serious.

We have discussed similar matters years ago. Sure you'll need trust, from reading their balance sheet you can't get it, at least they state now PED retained by users. It is however the country that makes me confident or at least as an Italian I would say that.

 

[MistyDawn]

Every Service RL or Online you know your fee's, except here.

ah, ok, I knows the answer to that one:

Business Model
Revenue is generated through micro-payments for products and services on a virtual planet(s). This model results in an average income of $1 per hour of activity, per user, which is shared between Mindark and the Planet Partner.

http://www.mindark.com/partners/entropia-universe-platfor/business-model/

The normal service fee for an active user lies between 0.5 and 1.5 USD per hour.

http://www.mindark.com/entropia-universe/

It's no secret, it's been like that since forever...

 

[valentin]

MA made a statement once that "Their income comes from decay." I'm sure they allready very sorry by making such a statement.
Since allthough it might be like that in the past , it's certainly not like that now.

MA now makes it's money from the fee on deposits and withdraw. + they charge a fee for providing the planet platform and the financial platform.

FPC makes it's money with the cycling of peds ingame. they take off a % of the global ped cycling for their operational costs + profit. The rest is cycled back as loot. They make a monthly evaluation about income and cost and adjust the return% if needed.

So the more players and the more ped cycling FPC need to take less % to cover their operational costs and their forecasted profit.

Just stop looking for loot theories and how the company is makes it's money, try to enjoy planet calypso instead.
We're here to have fun, not to analyse the financial structure of MA or FPC.

Just stop looking for loot theories and how the company is makes it's money, try to enjoy planet calypso instead.
We're here to have fun, not to analyse the financial structure of MA or FPC.

There you have 100% right.



MA made a statement once that "Their income comes from decay." I'm sure they allready very sorry by making such a statement.
Since allthough it might be like that in the past , it's certainly not like that now.

MA has been lying there for the players or ??.

 

[Antronius]

...

And it's wrong to use the statement "that a certain % of the deposits goes back to the players".
It's a certain % of the player spendings ingame that is cycled back to teh players, not a certain% of the deposits.
It's not because you deposited (Converting your currency to peds) money on your peds card, that MA can cycle it in the game. They can only do that if you spend it and it's not on your ped card anymore.

And in my opinion your 90% of the spendings to MA is totally wrong. that would mean that on an average hunt you would have a 10% return.

DR - My post supposes that MA has built the RCE portion of the game so that there is no cross-over or "mixing" of the part that is what some call the "loot pool" with the part that is MA's take -- the decay. What I'm suggesting is a more simple solution to MA's original design of the RCE portion.

So I think if MA tied the loots to decay then there would be this intermingling of the RCE with the Micro-Transaction portion of the game.

You could very well be correct. But for the purpose of this thread I don't think that re-introducing that intermingling of RCE and Micro-Transaction (let's call it MT for ease) would retain the simplicity upon which my post is offered.

Secondly, I grant that the percentages are just there to help discussion and are not accurate. However, I think you have missed the point that I am talking in aggregate terms. In that vein, some players might receive 90% and some players might receive 10%... it all averages out to what the actual figure would be.

This thread is supposing that loots are paid from a portion of our deposits that go into that RCE pool. Not from a percentage of your total deposits or of your total decay. Those are, in this thread, part of the MT portion of the game.

Read what 3-J suggested about decay -- my suggestion is that he is talking about my MT game suggestion and not about what I am calling the RCE part of the game.



/\

 

[Antronius]

Are we reinventing the wheel here

That's pretty basic old comon knowledge theory ey

I'm glad you think my post has merit as far as stating something that has already been posted elsewhere - but I'm not trying to get a theory out there. The purpose of the post is to draw comments about what the devs might have used as guidelines for the game algorithms if there was no need for MA to take profits from the RCE portion of the game.

For instance, I would say that based upon the assumptions given the devs wouldn't care about what the players historical deposits were from a revenue (or Micro-Transactional - MT) perspective.

They possibly would be considering historical deposits applied to the RCE portion of the game as a way to make the use of the RCE pool equitable across the whole player base.

But I suggest that anything to do with the MT portion; which is the company revenue and bottom-line, would not be considered at all when dropping loots.

Finally, I'm not saying that any of this is accurate -- I'm just inviting discussion based upon the constraints given in the OP.



/\

 

[Antronius]

I got bored reading all the post, Bu I do recall a website from MA I will have to look for it latter tonight and repost it. Bottom line I agree with most of what the 1st post is about.

I understand, but I was trying to write it as simply as possible so it was perhaps a slow read.

My question from that post though is: What were the devs keying their algorithms on if it was not company profitability?? (Because the basic premise is that MA has already made their money on the MT* part of the game.



/\
* Micro-Transactional

Perhaps if a mod is reading this the supermarket discussion could be moved to the Off-Topic folder.

 

[Antronius]

Algorithm anyone? That's what this thread is about - not supermarkets, not decay - but how a completely separated RCE component of the game from MA's bottom line might shape the games algorithms.

I'm sorry I can't be here all day long to mind the thread because I work and I have medical issues I must deal with.

I would be grateful if someone would take up the actual topic of the thread and get it back on track.

Is my question at the end of the OP so mundane or uninteresting? I would like to talk about the game algorithms based upon the hypothetical constraints given. Not to maybe make any Calypso-shattering breakthroughs but simply for the intellectual discussion value.

Please don't hijack my thread.


/\ntronius

 

[Mr Trayles]

MA made a statement once that "Their income comes from decay." I'm sure they allready very sorry by making such a statement.
Since allthough it might be like that in the past , it's certainly not like that now.

This is not the first time I have seen people make this statement. Yet, I have never seen anyone offer any proof. How can people be so certain without any evidence?

 

[falkao]

This is not the first time I have seen people make this statement. Yet, I have never seen anyone offer any proof. How can people be so certain without any evidence?

I second this. We don't have any clue about decay. Sure, MA's decision to not reveal it leads to speculation, but we should be carefully when claiming something.

 

[Karmic]

Anyone who thinks that Neverdie or Deathifier makes their profits from MindArk are fooling themselves. They make their profits directly and solely from other players. My opinion and assertion is that not a penny comes out of MindArk's coffers.

Your opinion and assertion is wrong, but that doesn't matter since you've started a thread with a misleading title and your first posts tries to control the discussion by limiting any argument against you. Forgetting ad revenue or any other sort of outside revenue that exists, you might as well tell me I don' t make any money from the company I work for since all that money comes from other companies. They don't pay me from their mystical "coffers" either.

Maybe I'm just tired from reading the misinformation in the financials thread, but I just don't understand your point and "No player ever comes out ahead" is obviously false. WTF are mindark's "coffers" if it isn't the money people have put into it?

 

[Golden Atrox]

People's expectations (earn money by playing instead of paying to play) backfired on MA.

Ofc we could make money but in the process may not get to play as much as others who depo (also subject to individual's def. of play?)

And the problem escalates when it becomes more expensive to play as time goes by (lack of consistent loot + higher decay and ammo use)

Back to eco-skilling and remind myself to play at my own pace

 

[Aly]

The only thing is
I'm interested about "my" fee with activities (hunting, mining, crafting). Decay ?, Part of loot ? is it dynamic ?, is it for every player with same doing the same etc. Where can i read these fee infos ?

If they take a part from decay, why dont they post on their Homepage => We take 3% from your decay !!!
What is so difficult ? Every Service RL or Online you know your fee's, except here.

Falke

From a business point of view, if i was in MAs shoes, i think it makes more sense to keep these details private. I wouldn't be publically stating if there is any fixed fee on any ‘action’ within EU. Reasons being; Say they set and announced a 10% transaction fee on every item purchased from the trade terminal. Some would avoid using the trade terminal, some would use it more etc. Etc.
Now what if i need to increase that fee or want to alter my profit structure to incorporate other income sources/fees/charges? (Personally i think this fluidity is necessary/advantageous with the stage EU/MA is currently in.. for the company running it anyway )
I would then have to announce the new structure which would inevitably result in a royal pain in the ass response from the consumers of my product.
(there are are many more reasons here, and they're not the best examples.. just trying to keep it simple )

So.. again, why would they announce any fixed fee they may decide to apply to something in game? (if that were even the case, which i'm not sure it is.. no one on the outside of the company structure can know for sure)

MA/FPC is NOT a government , tax agency, reserve bank etc. They are company running a business.
You are entitled to no more than their financial reports (and in some cases, not even those ).
It would make no sense for them to disclose the intricacies of their exact income sources/game design (ie. these ‘taxes’/’fees’ you speak of.. should they even exist)


I’m not sure the supermarket analogy is all that effective here so to give another example;

Let’s say I am running a trading company.
The government employs me to sell some of their assets.
You decide to buy those assets through me.
You may want to know what ‘cut’ i take/’fee’ I take out of the purchase price.
But i am certainly not obliged to tell you, and would most likely have a policy in place that encourages me NOT to tell you (to avoid causing issues with the completion of the deal etc.)

Now,
you don’t know that I even take a fee from that particular transaction.
Perhaps I take a overall company stake percentage for it.
Perhaps I get myself a years supply of beer.
Perhaps that transaction was just a necessary (but profitless) transaction in an overall company structure and I take my 'cut' from an entrirely different type of transaction.
You have no idea whether I even take a cut from that particular transaction.
Should I reveal a private internal payment structure/design of my company to you?
It does not effect you either way, as you will pay the same price regardless.
I am under no obligation to tell you and would only cause issues for myself if i did.
So why would I?

Yes... i understand, you ask about MA’s ‘cuts’ (ie. if there is a ‘tax’ for certain actions in game and if there is, what is it exactly and which actions is it applied to) as you would like to know.
I think many here would love to know the in depth details of MAs income sources and the structure of the economic system design within EU.
But.. you have no right to know, and most likely never will.

Hopefully that is a bit clearer now?


Personally, I would love to know these details from MA, but would think it unwise for them to tell me. From a business point of view, I certainly wouldn’t. So, I hope for hints and read through the many many threads like this

Most of which, just make me laugh.. but this one is actually interesting.

Now before the OP chants this at me
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In response to the OP:
Although I disagree with the validity of some of your post, am not a fan of the thread title and some of it is a little irrelevent (to me providing a 'discussion post' on the topic you suggested anyway)..

I agree your suggested structure makes more sense on an efficiency level.. but perhaps not in the overall scheme of things.
And unfortunately I, like everyone else not privy to the company that runs this game’s structures and intimate details, have no clue whether MA adopts any form of this type of structure (or plans to adopt it).

As to your question, I started to think through the impact on algorithms with your suggested structure and decided there’s just too many unknown factors for me to come to any real conclusion.. sorry..
But thanks for my afternoon reading material

(and for finally giving me something I can post a reply on I need some new efd icons )

Cheers,

Aly

 

[Antronius]

Aly - At least you read the OP. That counts for a LOT! Actually, the variables are what I wanted to talk about. :shrugs: Thanks to the others who got it also.

because most of the responses are just mindlessly dredged from other threads anyway.



/\ntronius

 

[711]

3.9 - Addressing Mindark
Addressing MindArk directly in thread topics or titles is NOT permitted. EntropiaForum is a privately owned website that has the honor of periodic visits and announcements from MindArk representatives. However, EntropiaForum is NOT an official MindArk or Entropia Universe website, so please do NOT address MindArk directly. MindArk representatives are under no obligation to respond to any threads, posts or private messages. Similarly, please do NOT send support questions to any of the MindArk representatives who visit EntropiaForum. Please use the support section of the official EntropiaUniverse.com website for support requests.

Thread title edited.

 

[Falke]

Thread title edited.

hy,
where is the problem, I can not see it !
Rules are OK but it's a little bit overboard.

Falke

PS:
On MA Website It looks like the MA Entropia Forum.
On the First Site no Comment about, only a Big link.

It's Clever, no own Forum for MA, then they must not respond on a "PRIVAT COMMUNITY FORUM". And they don't have to explain why negativ postings are not desired. "It's not MA, it's a privat Forum Rule" harharhar

 

[711]

hy,
where is the problem, I can not see it !
Rules are OK but it's a little bit overboard.

Falke

PS:
On MA Website It looks like the MA Entropia Forum.
On the First Site no Comment about, only a Big link.

It's Clever, no own Forum for MA, then they must not respond on a "PRIVAT COMMUNITY FORUM". And they don't have to explain why negativ postings are not desired. "It's not MA, it's a privat Forum Rule" harharhar

If you have a question about the purpose or meaning of one of the forum rules, then send a private message to me and we can discuss.