Normandie Radio goes silent

[sbi]

Sorry, you are way to new to the game as you pointed out and just do not understand the problem here. It is theft due to the fact that one can withdraw the money from game and make this into a business of only stealing from others for real world currency. The only way this wouldn't be a problem or theft is if this was a monthly fee based game with no deposit/withdraw.

Well, I am not new to the game and I agree with Profit. It is not theft in a RL sense of the word. It is part of the planned game mechanics we all abide to. And no, I am no pirate either.

 

[KijkkiJikki]

You accept the risk when you enter PVP. The game warns you before entering, you accept the risk.
PVP lootable is not theft in the sense that you try to perceive it to be.
And yes; I've fallen victim to pirates before. It was my choice to enter space and take the risk, just as it is yours. You clicked "OK" when the pop-up warned you of the risks.
So don't QQ when you lose.

ps: I'm not a pirate and couldn't be if I wanted to - I'm too nub at PVP.

I have never been pkd or looted. But I don't have to be a victim to recognise unethical behaviour when I see it.

It's my responsibily to manage my risks (and I do). That doesnt change the nature of what is happening here.

 

[Spawn]

I will repeat my image.. apart from the loose women.. When I enter this bar, do I ask to be pickpocketed?
I did get warned didn't I? Is pickpocketing in this bar not a crime, because I got warned it could happen?

I'll tell you if you're wondering: Pickpocketing is a crime, no matter how much you get warned that it can happen.

Another example was a friend of mine who got arrested by the police for not locking his bicycle. He was giving thieves a reason to steal his bike ("aanleiding geven tot diefstal" in dutch). He took it to court and he won.. simply because the crime is the crime.

 

[sbi]

I will repeat my image.. apart from the loose women.. When I enter this bar, do I ask to be pickpocketed?
I did get warned didn't I? Is pickpocketing in this bar not a crime, because I got warned it could happen?

I'll tell you if you're wondering: Pickpocketing is a crime, no matter how much you get warned that it can happen.

Another example was a friend of mine who got arrested by the police for not locking his bicycle. He was giving thieves a reason to steal his bike ("aanleiding geven tot diefstal" in dutch). He took it to court and he won.. simply because the crime is the crime.

Difference is though that the LAW in the game is that you are ALLOWED do it. And it is a LAW you agree to follow each time you log in. MA designed the universe in such a way... made it specifically possible to loot other players. And you accept this when logging in/entering space.

Cannot compare to RL. In RL other persons do not agree to you taking their items. And in RL the law does NOT allow it.

 

[Aeris_is_back]

I will repeat my image.. apart from the loose women.. When I enter this bar, do I ask to be pickpocketed?
I did get warned didn't I? Is pickpocketing in this bar not a crime, because I got warned it could happen?

I'll tell you if you're wondering: Pickpocketing is a crime, no matter how much you get warned that it can happen.

Another example was a friend of mine who got arrested by the police for not locking his bicycle. He was giving thieves a reason to steal his bike ("aanleiding geven tot diefstal" in dutch). He took it to court and he won.. simply because the crime is the crime.

you can't compare such things, pirating in EU is a legal activity in game and within the laws of the countries people play in. the warning is just that a warning, take it for what it is and stop trying to argue something that's not going to change. Mindark has made it clear they wont have their hand forced by the community. If you go in to space somebody might shoot at you and take your stuff so don't go.

Right now I can get two shot in space with out damage to my quad, as much as I think this is unfair I'm not crying over it I just landed on caly and will do other things until this problem is resolved or I find a way to mitigate it. bitching and complaining wont do a damn thing.

 

[John B Knight]

Thanks to the pirates testing our security level we have one more impoved to make the ToS Normanide even more the strongest ship roaming the universe. Our new total SI is 79930.4 !!!

 

[~CHOPPER~]

Thanks to the pirates testing our security level we have one more impoved to make the ToS Normanide even more the strongest ship roaming the universe. Our new total SI is 79930.4 !!!

Very impressive

Stagger will have to pay 4K peds for his next attempt on the Normandie!!

 

[uni_corn]

, pirating in EU is a legal activity in game and within the laws of the countries people play in.

that make me interesting. was there a clear statement of MA about it being legal?

who had a look over that?

who acknowledged that it really is legal?

for me is still a little bit foggy activity.

 

[Profit]

Sorry, you are way to new to the game as you pointed out and just do not understand the problem here. It is theft due to the fact that one can withdraw the money from game and make this into a business of only stealing from others for real world currency. The only way this wouldn't be a problem or theft is if this was a monthly fee based game with no deposit/withdraw.

First - new? I've been in EU going on 5 years. You assume too much.
Second - you can't win the argument. YOU CHOSE TO ENTER LOOTABLE PVP - YOU ALREADY LOST ANY ARGUMENT ABOUT THEFT.

Are you people really that far into denial? QQ more.

 

[Profit]

It's my responsibily to manage my risks (and I do).

THIS QUOTE EPITOMIZES ALL THAT MATTERS, NOTHING ELSE IS OF ANY IMPORTANCE TO THE ARGUMENT.

Why do you people not understand this?

 

[sakuraqueen]

wow, this thread is too long....

 

[jaywalker]

you can't compare such things, pirating in EU is a legal activity in game and within the laws of the countries people play in.

Hold on. Not only can people compare such things , they do, and who are you to tell them they can't?

Please don't tell me you have such respect for the Law, and for MindArk, that you allow them both to dictate to you what's right and what's wrong? Or rather, do tell me, if that's the case, but I'm gonna have a hard time believing it.

There is no law against playground bullying, so I guess that's OK? and no-one has a right to complain about it, or call the bullies nasty names (umm, unless they are bullies, ofc, in which case its all part of the legitimate act of playground bullying)

There is a Law against smoking cannabis, so i guess that's evil. Unless you live in certain States or countries where it's legal, in which case it's not evil, ofc.

Really, I'm not altogether convinvced that in-game piracy in an RCE would stand up to the scrutiny of Law. But we all know that the Law won't take an interest, so we can say what we like, without fear of contradiction.

But, really, whether it's legal or not, or whether MA coded it that way or not, is completely irrelevant to the moral argument isn't it? Unless you happen to have the moral maturity of a five-year old, and still think that Daddy is God.

You don't do you? Nah, you're just using this "perfectly legal" argument as a straw man.


jay

 

[Profit]

There is a Law against smoking cannabis, so i guess that's evil. Unless you live in certain States or countries where it's legal, in which case it's not evil, ofc.

This.
Replace "smoking cannabis" with "pirating" and you have your answers.
EU is a "state or country" (platform) where "smoking cannabis" (lootable PVP/pirating) is legal as deemed by the "law makers" (Mindark).

DEAL WITH IT OR STOP GOING TO LOOTABLE PVP.
Alternatively - lawyer up and make a case, but you won't (you'd lose anyway), so I guess all you can do is QQ more.

 

[jaywalker]

This.
Replace "smoking cannabis" with "pirating" and you have your answers.
EU is a "state or country" (platform) where "smoking cannabis" (lootable PVP/pirating) is legal as deemed by the "law makers" (Mindark).

DEAL WITH IT OR STOP GOING TO LOOTABLE PVP.
Alternatively - lawyer up and make a case, but you won't (you'd lose anyway), so I guess all you can do is QQ more.

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this

Let's try to put my points so simply that even you can understand them:
My point is:
A) there are two sides to legal argument
B) there are two sides to the moral argument
c) the legal argument does not invalidate the moral argument. It is totally irelevant in that context.

Now, which of these points is "DEAL WITH IT" meant to address?

And are you really as stupid as your post suggests? Or do you think that if you respond with "DEAL WITH IT" , then your reader will assume that what I really said was "Piracy is evil. Please don't shoot me. waaaaaah" ?

jay

 

[uni_corn]

This.
Replace "smoking cannabis" with "pirating" and you have your answers.
EU is a "state or country" (platform) where "smoking cannabis" (lootable PVP/pirating) is legal as deemed by the "law makers" (Mindark).

DEAL WITH IT OR STOP GOING TO LOOTABLE PVP.
Alternatively - lawyer up and make a case, but you won't (you'd lose anyway), so I guess all you can do is QQ more.

nah eu is no state. sweden is the state mindark has to obbey swedish law and european.

noone can create a own state and set federal laws invalid ; )
eula and tos can be written like someone want but is no matter. the countries law matters in the end when it comes hard on hard.

and to the "pvp is pvp you know when you enter" sure that is some right but:

a women was robbed in new york on the streets lately - "womens fault why does she go to work" lol

theft is theft. robbery is robbery. pvp leads to that.

but more interesting is why do some people need to do such things. whats the problem beeing nice and a social part in community?
what leads the pirates to attend to criminal behaviour?

as soon i got sponsors i buy all appartments in the city of culture. everyone can live in my clinic =)

pirates and normandie and mindark and ubers and no ubers =)

it be a place for all to understand and help each other.

who wants to sponsor me the bilton towers? =)

 

[Infinity01]

In the context of EU (RCE):

Piracy is an immoral act

It's legal to do piracy in EU .......so anybody can be a pirate.


Personally I want piracy in EU.... but I myself will never engage in it..

 

[Profit]

I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this

Let's try to put my points so simply that even you can understand them:
My point is:
A) there are two sides to legal argument
B) there are two sides to the moral argument
c) the legal argument does not invalidate the moral argument. It is totally irelevant in that context.

Now, which of these points is "DEAL WITH IT" meant to address?

And are you really as stupid as your post suggests? Or do you think that if you respond with "DEAL WITH IT" , then your reader will assume that what I really said was "Piracy is evil. Please don't shoot me. waaaaaah" ?

jay

Are you as stupid as your post suggests?
That was rhetorical. The fact you belittle anyone who disagrees with your overtly complex way of looking at a simple situation, would suggest you are.

It's black and white.
You agreed to be robbed if someone has the ability to do so, so why complain when you're robbed? It was your choice and trying to apply real world bs to this, is just that... bs. The game allows lootable PVP, if you think real world law applies then take MA to court or stfu and deal with it.

The choice is simple. Deal with the consequence of that decision or QQ more.

 

[Aeris_is_back]

In the end it dose not matter whats said here, I am still going to kill you and take stuff. From time to time ill feel kinda bad when I see I have looted a newbie but I am going to spend the ped just the same. Ill continue to deposit just the same, hunt, craft, mine, mentor, pirate, just the same, sometimes with your ped and more often with mine.

The best part there is something you can do to stop me... don't bring anything with you that you can loose if killed, Or learn the really basic steps on how to avoid pirates and pvp combat in space I have already laid out on the forums, Or Man/Woman up and fight back. "forth option is to bitch and moan on the forums and nobody likes a bitch or a moa.... no wait But nobody likes a bitch!"

I will continue to have respect for random people, local laws, friends, I remain a honest person who keeps to my word and dose right by others.

but this is just a pvp area of a game and I am playing a intended role, most large games have areas like this outside of the once played mostly by children like WoW.

(Generic Trolling)
But Aeris you are looting people you fucking douchebag!
(/Generic Trolling)

yes in a area of the game where this is allowed, real money or not space is a choice, to bring loot is a choice, to play EU is a choice, you have chosen to do something that comes with risk of loss, what gives you the right to complain when you do loose. Do you think you have any right to buy a lotto ticket and complain when you loose? oh, hell, no, you choose to buy the ticket knowing you may loose.

 

[KijkkiJikki]

It's not a legal issue at all. Right and wrong are separate from legal and illegal.

I think you are misunderstanding the position of myself and others. MA have chosen to enable this activity, its a valid part of EU. Ok, well that's their right to do so and I don't expect any change to this policy. Some players have chosen to embrace the opportunities it offers to take other peoples stuff. System working as designed. They have every right to do so. Go for it.

However I have every right to assess that behaviour against my own ethical framework and then act accordingly. I try to avoid doing business with people who I regard as acting unethically and I am not the only person in EU who does this. Some pirates are starting to discover there are consequences back on the planets when they try to sell stuff. I am sure there are many other players that are quite happy to do business with pirates. That's their right and it's not my mission in life to enforce my beliefs. But I am quite prepared to stand up and say when I think something is wrong. And I have no problem accepting when people disagree with me.

Other than that I dont stress about piracy. If I need to get something from one planet to another then I work out the best way to achieve that and just get on with playing. No doubt I will be pissed off when I am eventually pkd and looted but who wouldn't be. I'll get pissed off and then get on with playing.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

 

[Profit]

Well if it's a moral issue for you, there's nothing to discuss.
That's where the "deal with it" part comes in to my post. Morals are personal, I don't approach game mechanics on a personal level, it's pointless.

 

[Profit]

In the end it dose not matter whats said here, I am still going to kill you and take stuff. From time to time ill feel kinda bad when I see I have looted a newbie but I am going to spend the ped just the same. Ill continue to deposit just the same, hunt, craft, mine, mentor, pirate, just the same, sometimes with your ped and more often with mine.

More power to you! And thank goodness (evilness?) for players like you.
I just hope I'm not on the hurting end of those lasers one day haha

 

[Aeris_is_back]

More power to you! And thank goodness (evilness?) for players like you.
I just hope I'm not on the hurting end of those lasers one day haha

its not my lasers you need be concerned with its when I stare really hard in to my mon glaring at you as you feel a burning sensation overwhelm you from head to toe!

 

[jaywalker]

Are you as stupid as your post suggests?
That was rhetorical. The fact you belittle anyone who disagrees with your overtly complex way of looking at a simple situation, would suggest you are.

It's black and white.
You agreed to be robbed if someone has the ability to do so, so why complain when you're robbed? It was your choice and trying to apply real world bs to this, is just that... bs. The game allows lootable PVP, if you think real world law applies then take MA to court or stfu and deal with it.

The choice is simple. Deal with the consequence of that decision or QQ more.

Again, I did NOT complain that I was robbed. I didn't express my personal POV at all , in fact, but your replies condsistently put words in my mouth by negating things that I never said.

If all you want to do is spout rhetoric with no reference at all to what I'm saying , then you shouldn't begin by quoting me, should you? That's downright misleading.

Btw, since you regognise "Are you as stupid as your post suggests? " as a purely rhetorical question, in what sense is it belittling? Don't answer that. That's another rhetorical question, for you* On the other hand, I think "DEAL WITH IT" , as an answer to my point, or any other, comes across as highly belittling, so i would make no apology for responding in like fashion. even if I had.

Re, your previous post: if you don't want to engage in a moral argument, then quite simply, don't.

It was your choice and trying to apply real world bs to this, is just that... bs.

That is a moral argument, You are taking a moral stance on this issue (or you might prefer to call it an amoral stance, but you know what I mean). And, really, if you really don't intend to personally offend people by that kind of statement, then you;d better cosider saying "People" (or similar) not "you", and avoid beginning with a quote. Otherwise, of course it will appear like a personal attack.

jay

PS. will resist reponding to any further posts of yours, because I'm beginning to suspect you're just trolling, and it's becoming increasingly pointless in any case.

* belated clarification: In my case, the implicit answer to the rhetorical question was "No, you can't really be that stupid..." ofc, which is why it isn't belittling (though you could surely take offense on some other ground if you really wanted to) THat prolly really doesn't need explaining, but I've stayed up too late and I'm tired enough to think that maybe it does.

 

[jaywalker]

Hey, guys!

THere are some interesting questions raised on this thread.

A)Should real life value (eg "stealing is wrong") apply within a game? ( and how do tell the difference beween applying/trashing real-life values and role-playing? )

B)Should a Real Cash Economy make a difference to the answer above ?

Why can't we seem to discuss these questions without trashing each other? wrong thread, maybe. Too much role-playing going on?

For the record, I'm personally uneasy with RCE robbery, think it was a big mistake to make it such a central part of the game (given that space is central) and would definitely not engage in it; but I can appreciate the other POV, and I really don't think that all those who espouse it are criminally-minded, or anything like that (exceptions made for Stagger and Caly ofc )

That's what I actually think. Go on, now trash me. But if anyone wants to start a grown-up discussion in another threasd, you can prolly count me in

jay

 

[STYRM]

Hey, guys!

THere are some interesting questions raised on this thread.

A)Should real life value (eg "stealing is wrong") apply within a game? ( and how do tell the difference beween applying/trashing real-life values and role-playing? )

B)Should a Real Cash Economy make a difference to the answer above ?

Why can't we seem to discuss these questions without trashing each other? wrong thread, maybe. Too much role-playing going on?

For the record, I'm personally uneasy with RCE robbery, think it was a big mistake to make it such a central part of the game (given that space is central) and would definitely not engage in it; but I can appreciate the other POV, and I really don't think that all those who espouse it are criminally-minded, or anything like that (exceptions made for Stagger and Caly ofc )

That's what I actually think. Go on, now trash me. But if anyone wants to start a grown-up discussion in another threasd, you can prolly count me in

jay

a grown up discussion about space and pirates would be great.. and probably very needed

 

[Thorns Rose]

Hey, guys!

THere are some interesting questions raised on this thread.

A)Should real life value (eg "stealing is wrong") apply within a game? ( and how do tell the difference beween applying/trashing real-life values and role-playing? )

B)Should a Real Cash Economy make a difference to the answer above ?

Why can't we seem to discuss these questions without trashing each other? wrong thread, maybe. Too much role-playing going on?

For the record, I'm personally uneasy with RCE robbery, think it was a big mistake to make it such a central part of the game (given that space is central) and would definitely not engage in it; but I can appreciate the other POV, and I really don't think that all those who espouse it are criminally-minded, or anything like that (exceptions made for Stagger and Caly ofc )

That's what I actually think. Go on, now trash me. But if anyone wants to start a grown-up discussion in another threasd, you can prolly count me in

jay

Jaywalker you are always on Normandie...But you know as well as I do this is just a game..correct?...If there was no competion or adversary ther would be boring sweating of punys?!..also lets not discount the economy of other planets..hmmm no problem?...think..think..it would be too easy>prices on auction would dive!!..Be a chess player and think ahead... You are so right..

 

[Aeris_is_back]

Jaywalker you are always on Normandie...But you know as well as I do this is just a game..correct?...If there was no competion or adversary ther would be boring sweating of punys?!..also lets not discount the economy of other planets..hmmm no problem?...think..think..it would be too easy>prices on auction would dive!!..Be a chess player and think ahead... You are so right..

When are you going to come pirate with me! we can have a night of only pKing other pirates, that wont get you in trouble will it =)

 

[Matho]

When are you going to come pirate with me! we can have a night of only pKing other pirates, that wont get you in trouble will it =)

So, some players got together and they shot down Normandie.
Aeris did good to his ego by showing it to anyone through this thread, Normandie crew learnt they can be shoot down
30 pages about what ? lol

My message to Aeris : OOOhhh what a Strong and clever mighty one you are .... (is it enough?)
To Normandie: never underestimate anything


ende

 

[John B Knight]

So, some players got together and they shot down Normandie.
Aeris did good to his ego by showing it to anyone through this thread, Normandie crew learnt they can be shoot down
30 pages about what ? lol

My message to Aeris : OOOhhh what a Strong and clever mighty one you are .... (is it enough?)
To Normandie: never underestimate anything


ende

There was nothing underestimated Matho, given enough peds and willing helpers at hand you can kill just any valid target in space. However this is not something that can be sustained as you might have seen from this thread that the expenses to accomplish this have been 2k peds while yielding only a few pirate gifts of nearly zero value in return from the crew as passengers logged out into safety.
This will remain a once in a month or once in a year occassion depending on how many sponsors throw their money in to fund pirate attacks.
The Normandie has delt with the attack range issue for future attacks on its own way and has been upgraded ontop of this.

 

[darkmatter2222]

More power to you! And thank goodness (evilness?) for players like you.
I just hope I'm not on the hurting end of those lasers one day haha

its not his lasers you need worry about >: )
~Anti-Piracy Force