Notice regarding inquiries referring to selling of avatars:

KijkkiJikki

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Really this is only about convenience to the seller. If a player wants to buy skills for their avatar, it's easy to do and the market sets the costs.

But for someone to sell all their skills is actually a bit painful. And then they have to get the peds out of the game. But they can do it. It's not impossible to achieve.

So is MA interested in making it easier for a player who is planning on exiting the game? I guess not. There's no upside for MA in heading that direction.
 

Guarana

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I still would like to kno how I can transfer items / get my ped back for all the account bound items that's been been introduced last couple of years.

Everything is sellable / tradable / tt"able" yes ? =)

Or do I have to sell the whole account to get my money worth ? =D
 

San

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Maybe people who are so thrifty that they feel the need to monetize every hour of their free time as well should consider pursuing something other than a game.
 

Dan59

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Maybe people who are so thrifty that they feel the need to monetize every hour of their free time as well should consider pursuing something other than a game.

I agree, but this statement was valid in past in another game called PE before MA invented chipping and before MA inserted skill value in loot equation and in reward equation.
I left game for an year and half or so when that happened.
Some ppl were happy because they got rich over night by newly introduced possibility to sell skills.
Other ppl were pissed with new loot and reward formula witch contain reduced loot or reward plus something (skills) what is hard to cycle.
Also ppl were pissed because some rich kids could get suddenly uber over night by chipping.
Its not that ppl need to monetize every hour of their free time but its MA who introduced it as normal behavior for players.
Today excuse to loose several hundreds of dollars is not that you grinded month or two and paid this expensive fun.
No, because you finished iron mission and got 20 ped of skills as reward or even an point of stamina lol.
So gee you almost profited - so you won lol!
That give you incentive to grind more for some bound armor and bound weapon and don't forget two years of daily grinds for dropship witch will have big MU -ops cant monetize two years of our free time, not even an hour.
 

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I don't think that current situation, where MA try to make impossible for players to sell out produce any benefits for the game.
A pissed off customer doesn't bring more customers, it's exactly the opposite, it takes more with him, eventually all of them try to move together to another game, I experienced this in Entropia, once that feeling is installing more and more people get pissed off because their old friends don't play and stop playing.
Allowing to chip out would help creating another wave off players that would theoretically take over the skills and start playing to another level.
A player could sell skills ONLY if another ONE or MORE than one player will buy them, so MA doesn't lose any players, not to mention that this player that was able to sell out will help the game providing good advertisement.
When you tell someone that you sold out your avatar/skills and bought a new car they will definitely be interested to try the game, but when you tell them that you try for years to do it will give next to zero interest, the game is close to be dead they would think.

We will probably have to agree to disagree on this. Consider yourself as a prime example. You tried and could not sell your skills and you are still here actively playing ( as seen from your tracker) and even participating in discussions on the game ( via forum). Had it been easy to get rid of the skills, you would have not really looked back, would u?

Most people decide on leaving EU when things have not gone right for them (those looking to chip out). A small faction alone leaves cause of something like lack of time. At that point the annoyance because of loot or otherwise is too hard for them to recommend EU to anyone anyways. So the chip out might add to the annoyance in its current form but will not factor in as a good part if it was allowed to do so at lower cost. Add to that the second part of my argument where you wouldn't get much after selling skill anyways, i don't see how it will improve the current scenario.

Secondly, the rate at which skills are given these days with bonus's etc, that if it was cheap to chip out the market would be flooded with skills and then we would complain that the skill is useless anyways. It is the high cost of chipping out in the first place which is preventing the flooding of the chip (lots of people dont bother to chip out since it will cost them upfront a lot). This is my personal opinion and i have no data to back it up but if it was cheap enough to chip out the amount of people chipping out would be way more then those chipping in and which would lead to a similar situation where the skills would be worth nothing anyways ( supply vs demand).

Personally, i feel there are a lot of economic issues which MA need to cater to, this not being one of them. Yes, people wanting to quit right now can complain but then they will complain about skills being useless because of flooding of skills in the market later on as well. No company in the world can please all, just saying.

Why break something which works and i have yet to see proof of it not working.
 

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At this point I think you are here only to troll the others.

Retention rate in this game is very low, we have pretty much same number of players in the last years, because most of the players deposit few $, blow them all in a matter of hours/days and then forget about it.
When you buy something for a more consistent amount you don't give up so easy, you try more, deposit more, give it more tries.
As others said none want to play a game that traps you in, invest in your avatar, get skills and sell them for money... yeah right.


And that is what MA has done this last years to trap avatars.
1. Trying to make TT to 100% = Makes loot more worthless.
2. All (L) items. = Makes all items and skills more worthless.
3. Make a inbalance skills <-> ESI:s. = complicates the sales of skills.
 

mai isma apari

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:proof::proof:. :scared:......I'm here for the show
 
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atomicstorm

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And that is what MA has done this last years to trap avatars.
1. Trying to make TT to 100% = Makes loot more worthless.
2. All (L) items. = Makes all items and skills more worthless.
3. Make a inbalance skills <-> ESI:s. = complicates the sales of skills.

One problem here valentin. You can't blame mindark.

This is what the players asked for. Now players would like to have those big loots again (which someone has to pay for).. which the current theory is that is how Calypso is currently set up now... and yet players complain about the TT returns there too.

#2 - hunters wanted more loot to sell to make up for the MU differences, crafters wanted more stuff to craft.

#3 - see divinity's comments.

Players in this game are their worst enemies.

there was only some example , you people are so dumb , if someone make an example and say 200 k $ , you say omfg you crazy is to much , if you say 20 k$ omfg your stupid is too less ,
try to understand the equation that Valentin wrote it
Person A dont want to play anymore and wants to stop in the game, Person B wants to buy the avatar and play this game.

Who brings more money to MA avatar A or B.
I am Person A ---- lets just say you are Person B , you buy the Avatar with 10k$ (example) who brings more money in game ? ME NOT , YOU YES , and maybe you will bring even more players in game that put more money than you or same as you ingame . where is the problem ?


This game isn't about making mindark money. This is simply a byproduct. Mindark makes money from turnover (NOT deposits). Mindark's responsibility is to provide a platform that allows planet partners to build content (without very punitive consequences against another PP) that encourages said turnover. Some planet partners have decided to introduce content that allows you to exchange TT and some various rare items for another item (upgrade quests). This was something the players asked for but more so in the form of tiering. The response has been huge and so that has moved on to other areas such as the new modified viceroy, adjusted mk2, and various new armors. Those funds move peds from the player along with markup that went to other players (for those rare items) to the planet partner to fund further development and people's salaries because people's babies need food yo. For as long as the economy and professions are involved, this is a really good thing! Development staff IS NOT CHEAP by any means. So really.. let's cut the crap. Your perspective is flawed and your threats against other players only shows your colors.

You can't demand bug fixes and content without understanding how that content/bug fixes get paid for. Boycotts, circumventing the economy does not get you that. Making mindark more money by circumventing the game won't get you to that goal because that's not how they get the funding. Giving them a small cut (because few will use it) but in turn increasing arbitration and support costs to get you there is a negative value feature.

As Divinity says, there are far more things Mindark and all the planet partners need to focus their attention on (resource demand being #1).. not this nonsense.
 
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aia

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2. All (L) items. = Makes all items and skills more worthless.

There was a problem for a while, say between years 2006 and 2011, Before the (L) items, when useful items practically stopped dropping. What then happened ingame was that the prices for the items needed to progress ingame, for instance FAPs with heal above 42 HP/clicks were pretty nonexistant unless you were one of the happy few who had one (ie mod fap that was duped by some other player a generation ago). I guess that MA saw the solution to create the concept of (L) items, probably to have Control over that new item type.

Or, pretty much, there was a generation ingame who had with them their mod merc, modfap etc that they had looted Before 2005. When prices Went up for their oldschool items they could afford to keep using the best gear, and they were in top level societies for years, where they could trust eachother, so they didn't have any problem findin the gear they needed.
On the other hand, ther was the mid level players, who saw the prices of useful items go up, up and up in auction. I'd guess that a lot of mid level players would eventually give up, if there would just be a small number of players (the oldtime ubers and their friends) who would be able to progress in hunting, and hunt the relatively few mobs that had the potential to drop useful items (the few that still could drop).

The SIB system (maxable weapons) was a way to get average players to use (L) items. If (L) items had the same eco as the normal oldschool items then mid-level players might had kept on using Justifier mk2, EWE-40 (the normal ones) and FAP-80 (possibly EK-2600) (remember that FAP-90 used to be like 2500 PED), and would be stuck at that level.

In a competetive World/balancing perspective, I guess the choice would be to keep the top players happy, or the rest of the players (ie mid level players that didn't have access to mod merc+mod fap).

As for skills, I've often found myself in the situation that I didn't find any item I could afford (or afford to use in the long run) with the skills I have. It was just until last year I was able to buy a fitting plasma weapon with a useful dmg/sec. Waiting to get it, ubers had gotten there eredicator that they were running around most likely skill faster than I was able to. So though I might have had more skills in beginning, from oldschool plasma rifles, I guess the ubers with the eredicators just rushed past me with a gun that actually was useful.
 

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There was a problem for a while, say between years 2006 and 2011, Before the (L) items, when useful items practically stopped dropping. What then happened ingame was that the prices for the items needed to progress ingame, for instance FAPs with heal above 42 HP/clicks were pretty nonexistant unless you were one of the happy few who had one (ie mod fap that was duped by some other player a generation ago). I guess that MA saw the solution to create the concept of (L) items, probably to have Control over that new item type.

Or, pretty much, there was a generation ingame who had with them their mod merc, modfap etc that they had looted Before 2005. When prices Went up for their oldschool items they could afford to keep using the best gear, and they were in top level societies for years, where they could trust eachother, so they didn't have any problem findin the gear they needed.
On the other hand, ther was the mid level players, who saw the prices of useful items go up, up and up in auction. I'd guess that a lot of mid level players would eventually give up, if there would just be a small number of players (the oldtime ubers and their friends) who would be able to progress in hunting, and hunt the relatively few mobs that had the potential to drop useful items (the few that still could drop).

The SIB system (maxable weapons) was a way to get average players to use (L) items. If (L) items had the same eco as the normal oldschool items then mid-level players might had kept on using Justifier mk2, EWE-40 (the normal ones) and FAP-80 (possibly EK-2600) (remember that FAP-90 used to be like 2500 PED), and would be stuck at that level.

In a competetive World/balancing perspective, I guess the choice would be to keep the top players happy, or the rest of the players (ie mid level players that didn't have access to mod merc+mod fap).

As for skills, I've often found myself in the situation that I didn't find any item I could afford (or afford to use in the long run) with the skills I have. It was just until last year I was able to buy a fitting plasma weapon with a useful dmg/sec. Waiting to get it, ubers had gotten there eredicator that they were running around most likely skill faster than I was able to. So though I might have had more skills in beginning, from oldschool plasma rifles, I guess the ubers with the eredicators just rushed past me with a gun that actually was useful.


When L was introduced it was a nice time for crafters, as the crafted P5, P1, Aspis, Rutics, Kesmeks have had a market, and could be sold ---- but then MA started to drop tons of UL sib that made all those crafted obsolete additionally removed the needed components from loot, so crafters that paid 1000+ PED for the BPs, now sit on it and can´t even use it for skilling.

When L was introduced it was a nice time for crafters, as the crafted L armors actually have had market, and crafted L armors could be sold --- but thne MA started to let drop much better eco L armors L from hunting loot, that made all crafted armor (lower durability) obsolete, now nobody craft those mid levels, only a few high levels like Lich have market left, although its a lot harder due to shadow/angel L and stuff like that.

When L was introduced it was a nice time for crafters, as crafted FAPs, like the Vivo series (pokeballs), have had a market --- but then MA introduced S10 from gauntlet making all low level crafted obsolete and introduced upgrade mission for EK2350/2600, which made all higher mid level crafted FAPs obsolete.

Control over items, cool. Where ?
MA lost its formerly working ingame economy completely by making everything crafted obsolete!

Weapons L dropping like rain from hunting, which all are better than anything crafted
Armors L dropping like rain form hunting, which all are better durabulity than comparable crafted
FAPs could be upgraded or given for free (gauntlet) that are repairable, making L obsolete.

And people in the comunity still think its the Explo BP that killed the economy --- LOL


And now look at the facts, those old time UBERs that looted MMs, IMKIIs, Mod/Imp FAPs over 10 years ago, are still the UBERs from today.
They still use the old gear and still win every event and manage to drop all the nice new UL Sib items.
We already have to much UL Sib items, making it very hard to sell anything L no matter if crafted or looted, and there is no end in sight, more and more UL Sib floods the market, what actually drops the MU of all existing gear.

I wouldn´t mind if there would be a visible progress to better eco, making old style items like the MMs, IMKIIs, Terminator, Mod/Imp FAPs, all kind of armors, less valuable, as it would slowly be replaced with the better gear.
There is no such a progress, the 10+ year old porsches and ferraries ingame are still the f...ing best porsches and ferraris available. No new inventions, nothing that makes that old things outdated.

I have said that many years ago already:
Slowly move to pure L economy to have working economy for looted stackables
Make old style UL obsolete over time (not to fast, it must be a slow process), stop introducing new UL gear.

But there is no economy knowledge at MA office, sad but true.
Other developers like Blizzard hired some economists who take care that their ingame economy is not dying. They always do balancing, so that there is always demand for nearly everything you can loot. Well thats another company!

Sorry for the offtopic
 

combo22

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We will probably have to agree to disagree on this. Consider yourself as a prime example. You tried and could not sell your skills and you are still here actively playing ( as seen from your tracker) and even participating in discussions on the game ( via forum). Had it been easy to get rid of the skills, you would have not really looked back, would u?

Most people decide on leaving EU when things have not gone right for them (those looking to chip out). A small faction alone leaves cause of something like lack of time. At that point the annoyance because of loot or otherwise is too hard for them to recommend EU to anyone anyways. So the chip out might add to the annoyance in its current form but will not factor in as a good part if it was allowed to do so at lower cost. Add to that the second part of my argument where you wouldn't get much after selling skill anyways, i don't see how it will improve the current scenario.

Secondly, the rate at which skills are given these days with bonus's etc, that if it was cheap to chip out the market would be flooded with skills and then we would complain that the skill is useless anyways. It is the high cost of chipping out in the first place which is preventing the flooding of the chip (lots of people dont bother to chip out since it will cost them upfront a lot). This is my personal opinion and i have no data to back it up but if it was cheap enough to chip out the amount of people chipping out would be way more then those chipping in and which would lead to a similar situation where the skills would be worth nothing anyways ( supply vs demand).

Personally, i feel there are a lot of economic issues which MA need to cater to, this not being one of them. Yes, people wanting to quit right now can complain but then they will complain about skills being useless because of flooding of skills in the market later on as well. No company in the world can please all, just saying.

Why break something which works and i have yet to see proof of it not working.

The fact that you log in from time to time to check things doesn't really count as playing, as an active player I probably cycled more peds in one week comparing to my activity in last year, if someone would take over the skills I think that person could cycle the same amount as I did in the past.

I'm aware that even if ESI would be at TT value the skill value would not be so high, but the profit would definitely be more. The main issue is that there is no skill decay, so the skills only increase, the only way to decay skills is to chip out and at this moment this is as nonexistent.

Just try to imagine how skill market would look if you could buy a 1000 ped TT of Rifle skill for 2000 ped instead of 10000?ped today. There would be definitely more people wiling to chip in, then chip out and so on, skill will decay.
MA could also implement some kind of demand for skills, entering to some instances could require 4 ped of X skill instead of peds and so on.
Some time ago when you were down on PEDs you could sell some skills and quickly got some PED to continue doing your things.

Now days this game looks more like a hot potato game.

PS: There are a lot of good ideas in this thread to make it "great again", and it mostly require a good balancing manager, almost no software change.
 

~CHOPPER~

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As stated in the EULA 2.2 Restricted Use, a participant, may not sell, lease, sublicense or otherwise transfer any rights to the Entropia Universe System to third parties.

Which means that we do not support the selling of avatars, doing so will lead to an account suspension.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support


Originally Posted Here

Funny how some old school players were exempt from this...:handjob:
 

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San

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If MA doesnt support selling ava's then why does it have a system where you have to lose a shit ton on being able to transfer skills. Wonder what the actual law says about a Real Cash Game locking the ability of players to turn items they payed into real cash such as selling the Ava they payed to create.

Think ill push this along to a lawyer and see what they say. Also this game is soooooo close to the border line when it comes to being legal in the US. Shady stuff like this doesnt help its case im sure.

If you do sell your ava and the account gets locked heres a link to file a complaint


Federal Bureau of Investigation Internet Crime Complaint Center
https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

essentially even tho the ToS says your ava is Mind Arks property, when you depo and invest real money that builds a avatar's value you have rights to reclaim that value esp since there current system to reclaim that value is a player controlled market.

Also I am pretty sure if the US law really looked into how Hof's and Globals and certain mechanics are esp that new EP BP they would really take another look at if EU is operating under all US laws.

And what exactly are you hoping to achieve? If this backfires and you get EU the legal status of Online Poker in the US, you'll have a lot of new friends I'm sure. While the new administration may look differently at the nonsense that was decided back then, you never know if the wrong people catch wind and set themselves on the trail first. I.m.o. if you want to do something good, why not launch a petition and campaign for getting that out of the way first. Or we may not even get to say goodbye as happened with our American poker friends who were shut out overnight without warning.
 

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Think ill push this along to a lawyer and see what they say. Also this game is soooooo close to the border line when it comes to being legal in the US. Shady stuff like this doesnt help its case im sure.

So fucking sad, this is.

MA makes game. Sets up rules. Facilitates all kinds of stuff.
Now YOU and maybe a few others dont like it because you feel you have been wronged (for no good reasons because you knew the rules beforehand).

And now you want to drag the game and everyone in it down?

Why on earth should MA facilitate people who dont care about the game anymore and just want to take a quick exit out??

I'd rather that MA focusses its time on people who intend to stay.
 

~CHOPPER~

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I'd rather that MA focusses its time on people who intend to stay.

Do you really believe that MA ever did that or intends to?
You're a cash cow to them, period.
 

~CHOPPER~

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So fucking sad, this is.

No, its not sad whatsoever.
MA has a responsibility to follow laws. If they refuse to, they deserve to be forced to follow law.
 

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And now look at the facts, those old time UBERs that looted MMs, IMKIIs, Mod/Imp FAPs over 10 years ago, are still the UBERs from today.
They still use the old gear and still win every event and manage to drop all the nice new UL Sib items.
We already have to much UL Sib items, making it very hard to sell anything L no matter if crafted or looted, and there is no end in sight, more and more UL Sib floods the market, what actually drops the MU of all existing gear.

I wouldn´t mind if there would be a visible progress to better eco, making old style items like the MMs, IMKIIs, Terminator, Mod/Imp FAPs, all kind of armors, less valuable, as it would slowly be replaced with the better gear.
There is no such a progress, the 10+ year old porsches and ferraries ingame are still the f...ing best porsches and ferraris available. No new inventions, nothing that makes that old things outdated.

I have said that many years ago already:
Slowly move to pure L economy to have working economy for looted stackables
Make old style UL obsolete over time (not to fast, it must be a slow process), stop introducing new UL gear.

This ^^ Although i do see ma slowly crawling towards those dmg to pec areas but as you said the people who got those guns tends to loot the better ones anyways.
 

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No, its not sad whatsoever.
MA has a responsibility to follow laws. If they refuse to, they deserve to be forced to follow law.

You as a player have the responsibility to follow the game rules as you agreed upon before you started playing.

Why shoving it off to MA? Trying to ruin it all for the rest?'


Do you really believe that MA ever did that or intends to?
You're a cash cow to them, period.

So for all the other game creating companies your not a cash cow?
 

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JD RACING

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what kull above said they dont want us to sell acoount but force us now to log in ever 90 days wile they were happy taking our money

there should be 0 poeple account terminated from no being active ingame we paid if we dont want to play leave are stuff alone

that why some poeple want to sell just because they are force to log on there afraid to loose all

they can terminate account whit a blink of a eye after a year but you cant sell it
 

~CHOPPER~

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You as a player have the responsibility to follow the game rules as you agreed upon before you started playing.

Why shoving it off to MA? Trying to ruin it all for the rest?'




So for all the other game creating companies your not a cash cow?

I'm sure there's plenty of corporations that would love to "TOU" their way out of legal responsibilities.

But you know that's not how it works.
 

wizz

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So your saying if someone decideds to start playing EU it should be a life long thing?

No, I'm not saying this at all. Please point me where I said that.

You can already quite entropia. You can sell all your stuff, easy as that. And if you also want to sell your skills, well, then take some extra effort. Its perfectly possible, but not easy.

So I fail to see the problem to begin with.

You've spend years collecting those skills, well, just spend some more years to sell them. Or leave them as is.

Why facilitate quitters even more then it already is?
 

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I know only one thing, I have twice tried to sell my avat seriously both times have MA rewritten on or added elements in its EULA within a few days concerning questions about the sale of avatars.

:eyecrazy::eyecrazy::eyecrazy:

Just one letter from a avatar to MA support ( have more).


Avatars Namne
Hi
I have been offered to buy the ped/inventroy/skills from a friend (with gold card)
Since he lives very close to me he would simply come home to me and we start eu on 2 different computers.
We then trade his posessions and I pay him irl.
Is there any problem with that? I dont want to get bannes so I thought I better ask first.

Answer:

Hi,
Since there is no way for us to know what the arrangements in real life are we can not be responsible if anything goes wrong.
If later on this person accuses you of not fullfilling your part of the trade, since our records will have only recorded your accepting his items without paying anything we would have to lock your account while we investigate.
It is entirely up to you how you want to conduct this acquisiton of items.

Kind regards,
Myriam | Planet Calypso Support

This letter says its ok but MA dont take the responsiblety. :)
 
Last edited:

wizz

Elite
Joined
May 29, 2005
Posts
4,139
Location
Brabant
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
Wizzina Wizz Pale Moon
I know only one thing, I have twice tried to sell my avat seriously both times have MA rewritten on or added elements in its EULA within a few days concerning questions about the sale of avatars.

:eyecrazy::eyecrazy::eyecrazy:

Just one letter from a avatar to MA support ( have more).


Avatars Namne
Hi
I have been offered to buy the ped/inventroy/skills from a friend (with gold card)
Since he lives very close to me he would simply come home to me and we start eu on 2 different computers.
We then trade his posessions and I pay him irl.
Is there any problem with that? I dont want to get bannes so I thought I better ask first.

Answer:

Hi,
Since there is no way for us to know what the arrangements in real life are we can not be responsible if anything goes wrong.
If later on this person accuses you of not fullfilling your part of the trade, since our records will have only recorded your accepting his items without paying anything we would have to lock your account while we investigate.
It is entirely up to you how you want to conduct this acquisiton of items.

Kind regards,
Myriam | Planet Calypso Support

This letter says its ok but MA dont take the responsiblety. :)

nice try, but lets break down this support request.

I have been offered to buy the ped/inventroy/skills from a friend (with gold card)

Firstly, you dont mention to buy an entire avatar. Just ped, inventory and skills.
So your support quote has nothing to do with selling a complete avatar.




... your accepting his items ...
... this acquisiton of items.

Kind regards,
Myriam | Planet Calypso Support

And the answer from support only talks about items. Again they dont give you a card blanche to sell an entire avatar.


So what exactly is the point of this post?
 
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