Notice regarding inquiries referring to selling of avatars:

KullXP

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Aloisius

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They are getting more and more shady all the time. If you put thousands of dollars in you should be able to walk off and come back 5 years from now and log on with nothing to worry about. If you want to get the most return possible when it comes time to quit after thousands of dollars invested you should be able to optimize that return as well...

This whole thing is total bs

Ya MA is a Thing! This is why I think the founders must have been at burning man: it's the hotel california. Also by way of deception thou shalt do war - can't remember where I heard that motto though.
 

valentin

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nice try, but lets break down this support request.



Firstly, you dont mention to buy an entire avatar. Just ped, inventory and skills.
So your support quote has nothing to do with selling a complete avatar.






And the answer from support only talks about items. Again they dont give you a card blanche to sell an entire avatar.


So what exactly is the point of this post?



The support says ok to the sale of ped/inventroy/skills but support say also that they cant take any responsiblety because there is no way for us to know what the arrangements in real life.
Support says also that if something goes wrong in this real life arrangements that they can only take recorded your accepting his items without paying anything.

So to sell all is ok. but if anything goes wrong in the sale MA can only record what happends in the game and not real life.
 

wizz

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The support says ok to the sale of ped/inventroy/skills but support say also that they cant take any responsiblety because there is no way for us to know what the arrangements in real life.
Support says also that if something goes wrong in this real life arrangements that they can only take recorded your accepting his items without paying anything.

So to sell all is ok. but if anything goes wrong in the sale MA can only record what happends in the game and not real life.

indeed, support says its ok to sell stuff outside the game for real money. But they add to that statement, that they cannot and will not take any responsibility when it goes wrong. At least, thats how I read it. And I think we both read it that way/

So, to sell all "ped, items and skills" and skills is ok.
But, like I said above, they dont say it's ok to sell an AVATAR. At least, I cant read it in their reaction.
 

messi91

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I know only one thing, I have twice tried to sell my avat seriously both times have MA rewritten on or added elements in its EULA within a few days concerning questions about the sale of avatars.

:eyecrazy::eyecrazy::eyecrazy:

Just one letter from a avatar to MA support ( have more).


Avatars Namne
Hi
I have been offered to buy the ped/inventroy/skills from a friend (with gold card)
Since he lives very close to me he would simply come home to me and we start eu on 2 different computers.
We then trade his posessions and I pay him irl.
Is there any problem with that? I dont want to get bannes so I thought I better ask first.

Answer:

Hi,
Since there is no way for us to know what the arrangements in real life are we can not be responsible if anything goes wrong.
If later on this person accuses you of not fullfilling your part of the trade, since our records will have only recorded your accepting his items without paying anything we would have to lock your account while we investigate.
It is entirely up to you how you want to conduct this acquisiton of items.

Kind regards,
Myriam | Planet Calypso Support

This letter says its ok but MA dont take the responsiblety. :)


It doesn't say anywhere you are OK to do this.Just because you read it this way its your problem.
They told you they are not responsible for your actions but it doesn't mean ITS OK.
 

KullXP

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MIND

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jesus christ what is this shitshow :eyecrazy:
 

wizz

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We can make this very easy then.

Ask a lawyer or send it in to college law students
If what they said doesnt comply with US laws we do this

Sell our avatar's based on our laws,
If the account gets suspended refund the buyers
Then Go to:
Federal Bureau of Investigation Internet Crime Complaint Center
https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

And tell them what happened and that Entropia Universe ToS is not in compliance with United States law
That will mean that they cannot operate in the US

After that hire one of those "We dont get paid unless you get paid lawyers"
Show up to court a few times, and get paid for our time.

We have this entire thread and everyone in it that they do not comply with US laws. Easy Pezzy

Well good luck.
Keep us updated about the proces.
 

ALEXANDER

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We can make this very easy then.

Ask a lawyer or send it in to college law students
If what they said doesnt comply with US laws we do this

Sell our avatar's based on our laws,
If the account gets suspended refund the buyers
Then Go to:
Federal Bureau of Investigation Internet Crime Complaint Center
https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

And tell them what happened and that Entropia Universe ToS is not in compliance with United States law
That will mean that they cannot operate in the US

After that hire one of those "We dont get paid unless you get paid lawyers"
Show up to court a few times, and get paid for our time.

We have this entire thread and everyone in it that they do not comply with US laws. Easy Pezzy

You know nothing about law, do ya?
 

San

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And tell them what happened and that Entropia Universe ToS is not in compliance with United States law
That will mean that they cannot operate in the US

Are they operating within the US? That's not the same as merely accepting US customers over the net. If the US government bars its own citizens from doing certain things on the web, that's a different story. I still don't understand what you're trying to do. Sounds potentially damaging though.
 

KullXP

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Darth Revan

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you will not be allowed to withdrawal

This part here sounds really damaging, not only to the game but to the many of US players that have already invested thousands into this game.

So get a lawyer, get MA banned from transactions with US players and those players then say goodbye to anything they have put into the game....what could possibly go wrong??
 

GoNi

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Just like many Poker games that you used to could play in the US now you cant.
Many off that poker games still available in europe :D

Thats exactly what you can achieve with such actions, once you could play EU in USA, after your BS you can´t anymore.

First: MA sticks to swedish law, as it is a swedish company.
Second: If you want to fight MA with your lawyer you have to do that in sweden not in the US
Third: Even if you win, only reaction MA will do is shut down EU for US players, and you will lose all.
Fourth: You may fight them again in court to get a refund, many other US players will do that, too
Sixth: If all this US players whin at court and get their refund, MA will be bankrup
Eight: MA bankrup = EU dead, we all lost everything

Well continue with your BS, you will see where that leads to.

Beside that many other "GAMES" have same TOU and many many many accounts get deleted, perma banned and whatever for not following this rules, you accapt every day when loggin in to that game.
Be happy that MA is not that fast in deleting accounts.
Many accounts that are todays UBERs could have been deleted long time ago for different violations of that rules.
So better those be happy that they are still allowed to be here, instead crying all the time.

You want to sell skills, then use the existing game mechanics.
You don´t want that, do whatever you want: ON YOUR OWN RISK, as you may lose everything if something goes wrong.

I have seen several gaming accounts sold in other games, that got deleted by the company very fast, as soon they noticed what happened. Well known companys like: CCCP, Blizzard just to name two, you surely know which games :D
 

KullXP

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valentin

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But if i want to give my avatar to a other player in the game it has to be ok., nothing about it in EULA.
 

Norbert

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But if i want to give my avatar to a other player in the game it has to be ok., nothing about it in EULA.

I've known over the years for a few avatars to get passed over for skill sales over time for payment straight away by a 3rd party. I guess nothing that MA can theoretically do about that or is "overlooked" as we can be sure they are aware of rl issues that can occur divorce/death/job loss etc etc.

I think they more talking about when people sell an avatar to use by the purchaser, which ofc creates many issues withdraw/ownership of account "on paper".


As for complaining about system of chipping out, to get to a point it is worth doing you should be fully aware of how it works. The cost tt wise isn't so much but is player market driven mark up that makes it the esi is much more % than skill value often. I guess we could grumble about esi drop rate, but if dropped a lot; more people would bitch about mark up loss..... :rolleyes:

Leave it as is, after all is MA's call at end of day.
 
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Hijacker27

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My real issue is some people are acting like selling your avatar is like selling an item. To me its more like selling yourself, you trust there is a person behind that avatar and each time it is the same person. It is an identity, one that builds trust and friendships. It is illegal to sell your identity in real life, giving someone your state ID is illegal in most countries and can end up with massive jail time.

If you want to sell your skills, petition MA to increase ESI drop rate or improve the viability of the chipping system. We should never be unsure of who is playing what avatar as that only decreases the trust we have in the system.
 

xian

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My real issue is some people are acting like selling your avatar is like selling an item. To me its more like selling yourself, you trust there is a person behind that avatar and each time it is the same person. It is an identity, one that builds trust and friendships. It is illegal to sell your identity in real life, giving someone your state ID is illegal in most countries and can end up with massive jail time.

If you want to sell your skills, petition MA to increase ESI drop rate or improve the viability of the chipping system. We should never be unsure of who is playing what avatar as that only decreases the trust we have in the system.

Indeed, and while you can't change your avatar name, it would be silly to mindark to allow the bulk sale of avatar.
As to Kull who think MA didn't care of the law issue, when you purchase PEDs, it's a purchase like any other game. EU is unique to other game as it was the first who allow to sell skills via ingame process (ESI) and convert to $ by withdrawal. If you don't want to play by the rules, thats fine, but don't complain afterward.
Many high skilled avatar are already borderline as to how they acquired their skills, helping them would be same as promoting cheating.
 

KijkkiJikki

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My real issue is some people are acting like selling your avatar is like selling an item. To me its more like selling yourself, you trust there is a person behind that avatar and each time it is the same person. It is an identity, one that builds trust and friendships. It is illegal to sell your identity in real life, giving someone your state ID is illegal in most countries and can end up with massive jail time.

I hadn't really considered this aspect but I agree. To me, reputation has value, more value than skills. It's a key aspect of conducting business within EU. If I can't depend on the person behind the avatar staying consistent then reputation has no meaning. If there were to be supported avatar sales, I would want three to be a mandatory change to the avatar name.
 

atomicstorm

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My real issue is some people are acting like selling your avatar is like selling an item. To me its more like selling yourself, you trust there is a person behind that avatar and each time it is the same person. It is an identity, one that builds trust and friendships. It is illegal to sell your identity in real life, giving someone your state ID is illegal in most countries and can end up with massive jail time.

If you want to sell your skills, petition MA to increase ESI drop rate or improve the viability of the chipping system. We should never be unsure of who is playing what avatar as that only decreases the trust we have in the system.

I agree. X gets the square.
 

wizz

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Ive already got all my money out all I need to do now is sell my ava. Even with over 200,000 skills the best I could get is $500 USD by the time you take ESI's into account. But I could get 3 times that to sell the ava.

They want to shit all over there customers and make bs shady as hell rules just to make there bottom-line a little better then the customers have the right to fight back against such *screw our players over* actions.

They just keep getting worse and worse its getting out of hand... Its about time they found out there are consequences for conducting unethical business practices with no regard for there customer.
So youre not happy with the amount you get for your skills so all is terrible and you would like to see the game destroyed? How freaking egocentric is that?!?!
 

r0ound

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MA do not support selling avatar, but cut ESI drop rates, so we cant sell skills too... HERE you can see how much MA decreased ESI drop during last years.
 

valentin

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MA do not support selling avatar, but cut ESI drop rates, so we cant sell skills too... HERE you can see how much MA decreased ESI drop during last years.



All in here should read this at least 10 times.:wise::wise::wise::wise::wise:
 
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MA do not support selling avatar, but cut ESI drop rates, so we cant sell skills too... HERE you can see how much MA decreased ESI drop during last years.

I may be wrong, but I think you'll find this is not an MA Issue.
The ESI Drop rate slows due to them sitting in peoples Storage.
 

atomicstorm

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I may be wrong, but I think you'll find this is not an MA Issue.
The ESI Drop rate slows due to them sitting in peoples Storage.

Correct....
 

r0ound

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I may be wrong, but I think you'll find this is not an MA Issue.
The ESI Drop rate slows due to them sitting in peoples Storage.


So its MA bad balancing issue. Same like with pyrite and some other things. If MA see problem of selling avatars, they should see a problem with ESI too, same like with other things. However, writing post in forum is way more easy then adjusting few drop rates.
 

JD RACING

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if they see this they should drop alot more then poeple whould stop hording and increasing the mu if they buy what drop and still do the same keep on droping
 

wizz

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if they see this they should drop alot more then poeple whould stop hording and increasing the mu if they buy what drop and still do the same keep on droping

:scratch:

is this a riddle perhaps?

...but let me continue from the part I still understood, "if they see this they should drop alot more" and if they drop a lot more the price will go down because supply will rise.
This would result in hoarders seeing their self inflated capital melt away as soon as it becomes tt food.
And it will stay tt food untill people start to whine about it being tt-food, so MA caps it again.
And the circle is round again.

Btw, isn't that the job of the balancing manager? :scratch2:
 

Darth Revan

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if they see this they should drop alot more then poeple whould stop hording and increasing the mu if they buy what drop and still do the same keep on droping

So you want MA to destroy the MU on ESI for hunters???
 
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