One Sad Story

[ContainerConrad]

Sad to see this happen to such a nice guy as Cuba, i remember few years back, not even knowing him that well, just from our random meetings at the oil rig mining, i asked if i could use he's improved ml-45 i think it is, from what i know its a unique weapon only one of them, and he just let me use it, and more than one time for weeks at the time

things happen sadly not first time i hear of this exact thing happening where healer forgot to remove tool when getting the peds

 

[flipflap]

I asked the victim to see if the two players involved belonged to a company and to post his name here.
Apart from that possibility, I'd like the ubber players who shine so brightly in the ATH rankings, who show off their mountain of HP, who own the most expensive items; to play their part that goes with their weight.
We want them to be examples for us, using their weight to resolve this situation.
As Coluche said, when a 130kg man talks to a 60kg man, the 60kg man listens.

So I thank you for at least trying to be as big in soul as you are in skills and reputation.

 

[Kubanec]

Sad to see this happen to such a nice guy as Cuba, i remember few years back, not even knowing him that well, just from our random meetings at the oil rig mining, i asked if i could use he's improved ml-45 i think it is, from what i know its a unique weapon only one of them, and he just let me use it, and more than one time for weeks at the time

things happen sadly not first time i hear of this exact thing happening where healer forgot to remove tool when getting the peds

I must give BIG THUMB UP to this guy, lot of fun with him in game, never let me down. And now helping me in game to gain some extra pedies. Be like Conrad !

 

[germ]

Anyone that treats my friend Cuba well, and receives such accolade from, is okay in my book. Not that my book is very large, or known by many.

 

[flipflap]

I'm grateful for the administrator's intervention and we understand that this is a delicate subject for you to decide on, the regulations etc etc.
However, it is essential that you are a judge of the peace and a policeman.

I would remind you that there was a time when many of us made and repeated mistakes when trading with the TT; I lost a dante in the tt; that was the time when we had to unsequip accessories, weapons, finders and armour.

You know that we're big players and that fatigue and inattention can be responsible for errors; so you put in place this protection system and the possibility of repairing without equipping.
It was necessary because, at the time, we were getting more items in loots instead of shrapnel, the inventory was saturated and it was easy to make mistakes.
Thank you once again.


we just ask you to do your best, because whether it's me, whether it's Cuba, whether it's the majority of players, we want to be protected from bad behavior and abuse.I live in France, 'the feeling' of insecurity and that of injustice; this strong conviction that the state does not protect us; upsets our way of life and our vitality.do your best to show that you are on the side of those who need to be protected, whether they have been victims through weakness or abuse; just do your best.

 

[Pi-]

.

 

[TheDauntlessOne]

It is allowed by RL law in almost any country that you can back out of any purchase which is not a consumeable if you mention it in time. Involve police and u get your item back in the end. MA will need so much time to deal with your case that they probably will react before police starts doing anything.

Ingame rules of MA dont aplly since this is virtual. Anything you write down which is against real law have no value if it comes to court. (example, a lot of the text in real estate lease contracts is illegal by the owner of the property. In case something goes to court. Its illegal as it would not be written down.) This applies also to anything MA writes down.

In the end you should get back what is yours. Since the law of sweden is probably pretty similar to middle europes law.

Just keep going. You tie there workers to the case. Which cost them money to deal with it. So if u keep going they will do something about it to save working cost. At some point.

This is not at all how the legal system works, please understand that.

 

[JJO]

I asked the victim to see if the two players involved belonged to a company and to post his name here.
Apart from that possibility, I'd like the ubber players who shine so brightly in the ATH rankings, who show off their mountain of HP, who own the most expensive items; to play their part that goes with their weight.
We want them to be examples for us, using their weight to resolve this situation.
As Coluche said, when a 130kg man talks to a 60kg man, the 60kg man listens.

So I thank you for at least trying to be as big in soul as you are in skills and reputation.

Wait, what, now players who have NOTHING to do with this incident are being fingered as somehow being responsible to act 'the right way' regarding this matter?!

Look at yourselves! Everyone's to blame except the guy who threw his own FAP away...

"This is madness!" - 300 Sparta

 

[Kubanec]

Wait, what, now players who have NOTHING to do with this incident are being fingered as somehow being responsible to act 'the right way' regarding this matter?!

Look at yourselves! Everyone's to blame except the guy who threw his own FAP away...

"This is madness!" - 300 Sparta

Well this guy Dauntless contacted me after he sell the FAP and "trying to help" me with the case. After while he turned around and start saying things like - Its not good to pm to hunter too much, otherwise i will be banned etc. And JJO u r right, its only my stupidity, im not blaming anyone, as u can see. Just pointing out characters of some people in game. Is it good answer for your?

 

[flipflap]

I thank you for trying to fix the situation and I will thank you even more for keeping the threats of this sad individual.

I can only invite you to flee this individual, not to turn your back on him, not to tell him personal stories, to protect yourself from him.In France, we also have the right to this accusatory inversion and if he has pain in his little wounded heart; he only has to place 'his harassers' in his ignore list'; hoping that he quickly finds himself alone, talking into the void, no longer able to sell anything to anyone, except to the tt, because this kind of human being only deserves social eviction.

This is not an example for anyone, because the worst is that he has the possibility of taking a step back, of finding an arrangement, of regaining his reputation and self-esteem and I encourage him to do so by having offered to pay him a sum to repair this damage.

in my situation, I find myself with a mod 2600 that I bought, I am not wrong, yet I have a deep unease knowing that it was previously acquired in a bad way.it is not about law but about morality and it is like all those who at the moment when you take out your sleipnir, your quad; come to knock on your door to ask you to be added to the list, hoping that by mistake, you give them the possibility of being a driver; in order to leave with your machine.

nothing wrong in the law, but it is the same toxicity.

if I had this individual in my company, he would be banned; if my company decided to keep it, I would leave.

 

[flipflap]

JJoit's quite strange to understand that in a society, those who have weight, can use it to repair a wrong?

it's not about accusing them of doing or not doing.i sincerely think that it's a good thing, like defending a woman in the street who would be bothered.

we can criticize Mindark's mistakes, but we can also take a look at the way in which we, players, through our interactions, make this gaming environment pleasant or not.

 

[TheDauntlessOne]

Well this guy Dauntless contacted me after he sell the FAP and "trying to help" me with the case. After while he turned around and start saying things like - Its not good to pm to hunter too much, otherwise i will be banned etc. And JJO u r right, its only my stupidity, im not blaming anyone, as u can see. Just pointing out characters of some people in game. Is it good answer for your?

Refer to my previous posts regarding this.

 

[TheOneOmega]

I'm grateful for the administrator's intervention and we understand that this is a delicate subject for you to decide on, the regulations etc etc.
However, it is essential that you are a judge of the peace and a policeman.

I would remind you that there was a time when many of us made and repeated mistakes when trading with the TT; I lost a dante in the tt; that was the time when we had to unsequip accessories, weapons, finders and armour.

You know that we're big players and that fatigue and inattention can be responsible for errors; so you put in place this protection system and the possibility of repairing without equipping.
It was necessary because, at the time, we were getting more items in loots instead of shrapnel, the inventory was saturated and it was easy to make mistakes.
Thank you once again.


we just ask you to do your best, because whether it's me, whether it's Cuba, whether it's the majority of players, we want to be protected from bad behavior and abuse.I live in France, 'the feeling' of insecurity and that of injustice; this strong conviction that the state does not protect us; upsets our way of life and our vitality.do your best to show that you are on the side of those who need to be protected, whether they have been victims through weakness or abuse; just do your best.

The problem is that MindArk seems to recognize that their best as a judge of the peace and a policeman is less good than their best as a neutral platform and protocol enforcer, which is likely correct given that discarding the do no harm principle and starting to manually classify the legitimacy of trades would be expected to create many more edge cases than we currently have and at much higher levels of sophistication, as players would seek extra value out of trade reversals.

An important step multiple people seem to be skipping before they post is asking whether their arguments and stated principles actually hold in other contexts. This applies most strongly to the legal side of things, but also applies here if, as you seem to argue, the merit for MindArk intervening is supposed to derive from objective principles, as opposed to Entropia-specific policy MindArk is free to arbitrarily construct. The argument is that MindArk is objectively obligated to take an interventionist approach to trades because players make errors and mistakes. A natural next step would be to consider whether a Poker tournament dealer or tournament organizer is objectively obligated to take an interventionist approach to bets because players make errors and mistakes. Proceeding assuming not until we find someone adventurous enough to defend this view, we seem to have a counterexample to the inference from error-potential to necessitation of policing player choices in games. Perhaps it is possible to make a weaker argument of the form that MindArk is objectively obligated to take an interventionist approach to trades because players make errors and mistakes AND [some other condition which applies to Entropia trades but not Poker bets]. It is, of course, not merely a matter of finding a distinction between Entropia trades and Poker bets, but of finding one which seems morally relevant to MindArk in the sense of obligating intervention. And, of course, it must not itself be subject to counterexample.

In general, we do not expect authorities to interfere with all forms of bad behavior, for reasons not the least of which is that what constitutes bad behavior is controversial and difficult to build consensus around. Instead, we expect authorities to defend specific rights, the violations of which may imperfectly overlap with moral duty violations by others. The right to reverse errors or mistakes in gaming or to be shielded from their consequences is generally not one of them.

My solution has always been to give players as much control as possible via Options settings over their trading protections. Have parameters for players to set as many or as few warning windows on the auction as they want, for players to item lock while putting an item in the trade window, prevent the item from even going in the trade window, etc. Do everything you can to let the individual customize and perpetually recustomize to tailor a security system they'll pay attention to. We can even have conversations about optimal defaults if we want. But then, we have to acknowledge that a few players will ignore every opportunity to protect themselves and the personal responsibility kicks in. Players sometimes need to be allowed to make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

 

[JJO]

Well this guy Dauntless contacted me after he sell the FAP and "trying to help" me with the case. After while he turned around and start saying things like - Its not good to pm to hunter too much, otherwise i will be banned etc. And JJO u r right, its only my stupidity, im not blaming anyone, as u can see. Just pointing out characters of some people in game. Is it good answer for your?

Yes, yes, Kubanec, you keep saying that, "It is my mistake" ... then, please, act like it. You could have relayed this entire incident for others to learn from without soft-doxing this guy's avatar on the forum (and from what some posters here seem to say, now in PM).

The guy's a proper shithouse for keeping your fap, which he likely knew you didn't intend to leave in the trade window. We all agree on this. But that's a dick move, not theft and not a scam. I have been scammed, twice, and for more than a mod 2600's market price. Back then MA didn't own this forum and people's avatars were doxed. I, however, knew it was my stupidity and I never doxed the guy's avatar. I just happened to find a thread dedicated to him by many others he had scammed, and I added my story to the heap. If that thread didn't exist, I would not have mentioned his avatar name at all.

In trying to point out who the dick is, be careful you don't become one in the process. He kept your fap, you doxed his avatar. From personal experience, I can tell you now, some people already have his address, email and name. It happened to me. There are moles who are friends with players and they DO share account details of players.

And you see how easily some people are riled up here, as if they were the ones who 'got robbed' and they just want revenge.

This is what you likely did not know about or take into account when you revealed his avatar's name...

 

[Terminator]

We have been asking for a "Protect" option during years and now we have it.

Showing a FAP in a trade is just stupid. I've been healing since 2010 and never had to do it.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

In trying to point out who the dick is, be careful you don't become one in the process. He kept your fap, you doxed his avatar. From personal experience, I can tell you now, some people already have his address, email and name. It happened to me. There are moles who are friends with players and they DO share account details on players.

Careful with using the word dox here. You should not have your avatar name, username, society name, etc. shared with an online community. Nor should you be sharing these details with others unless you know the potential repercussions of doing so.

 

[JJO]

Careful with using the word dox here. You should not have your avatar name, username, society name, etc. shared with an online community. Nor should you be sharing these details with others unless you know the potential repercussions of doing so.

Which is exactly what I'm trying to warn people against?

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

Which is exactly what I'm trying to warn people against?

Yeah,I'm agreeing with you. Be careful on what is shared, but stating an avatars name is NOT doxxing, nor is it considered sensitive/private information.

 

[JJO]

We have been asking for a "Protect" option during years and now we have it.

Showing a FAP in a trade is just stupid. I've been healing since 2010 and never had to do it.

Since this thread seems to have run its course, this just gave me an idea for a REAL scam! Hear me out...

So, a healer buys 2 identical faps. One he shows at full TT in the window before hunt ... the other one that's decayed down to the last pec he shows in the window after the hunt ... and the poor hunter has to foot full TT repair bill

But ... it get's better. Hear me out again...

Some dipshit still manages to put BOTH faps in the window, loses them in the trade, and adds another gem to the forum

I'll see myself out...

 

[Kubanec]

Popcorn anyone?

 

[Kubanec]

Since this thread seems to have run its course, this just gave me an idea for a REAL scam! Hear me out...

So, a healer buys 2 identical faps. One he shows at full TT in the window before hunt ... the other one that's decayed down to the last pec he shows in the window after the hunt ... and the poor hunter has to foot full TT repair bill

But ... it get's better. Hear me out again...

Some dipshit still manages to put BOTH faps in the window, loses them, and adds another gem to the forum

I'll see myself out.

Also good one XD

 

[Kubanec]

We all see, hunter is not giving the fap back, as dauntless stated. I know what i wanted to know. I can move on, valuable lesson learned.
Btw if u see me selling sweat - gimme fair price .). GL all and keep your eyes open

 

[ContainerConrad]

Shit happens, hopefully few other people u been nice to will help out in getting a new fap,

 

[Tei]

I made a suggestion regarding this and similar situations:

Solution to STOP accidental trades

We saw similar stories many times. 1. Someone was excited by newly purchased item and wanted to show it to a 'friend'. Accidentally traded it. 2. Other guy wanted to test decay on an item. Accidentally TTed it. 3. Or very recently helaer shows FAP's decay after healing job and accidentally...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

 

[Svako]

... it's challenging to definitely discern a genuine mistake from manipulation; anyone can easily claim an error on their part to revert unfavorable trades they a day later regret.

What if the other side or the trade confirms that he is aware that it was not a trade, but a simple mistake and that he is keeping the item out of spite and using "all trades are final" rule only as an excuse? Because is exactly happened and of course when I pointed it out, the post was conveniently deleted, along with mine, since I was quoting deleted post. What more is needed to start a formal investigation? Why is it so hard to check the chat logs of the culprit? Maybe they didn't use in game chat/email for such confession and therefore you would have no ground and case can be closed, but what if they did? What if there is a chat where he admits, that he is aware of the fact that it was a steal and not a trade?

These are more of a general questions now, since this can happen to anyone. I'm just curious how final are the trades when ill intention confession is part of the equation?

 

[Thorns Rose]

-How to lose 7k in 1hr-

Hi all, i just want to share my sad story, that happened this weekend to me. With broken hearth i must accept lose of my lovely mod 2600.

I was mining on thursday night, well was almost 4 a.m (friday). to be fair . The results were +- ok. Then i saw this calling for heal at CP [Moderated]. I said to myself...ok, lets change a bit. Maybe my mining need some rest.

So i went to CP.

I showed him start tt of my fap, because i try to be fair to my hunters. Hunt went not really good for him and as we chat, he said this is all the time. Well after 1hr i was really tired. 5a.m. is 5a.m. so i called it night. after showing the decay i forgot to take my fap out of the trade window and accepted trade for the few peds earned by heal. So...i went to caly - realised what i did and tried to reach that guy. He is not responding and thats the problem. I just want to know how it is and move on.

P.S. Valuable lesson - dont be idiot like me

Darling..How much did you lose? I will compensate you and pay you. Thank You for your service.

add me

 

[JJO]

Rose, don't reward stupidity (at least not publicly). Tomorrow there's another thread like this and then it's a scam between 2 friends taking the piss.

Good intentions are the road to hell.

 

[Thorns Rose]

Rose, don't reward stupidity (at least not publicly). Tomorrow there's another thread like this and then it's a scam between 2 friends taking the piss.

Good intentions are the road to hell.

True.....JJO...................Well said!

 

[Kubanec]

Darling..How much did you lose? I will compensate you and pay you. Thank You for your service.

add me

Thanks for your first intensions, but i dont need charity, i play long enough to cover that loss. Just be cool i game. GL

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

Good intentions are the road to hell.

Only if you make it personal In Buddhism it's called "Dana" ... not my path ... just saying.