Suggestion: Open letter to MindArk: Fix Entropia Universe

[Deleted member 74680]

Agree with everything.

Those who are against the improvments or fixes are part of the problem.

Cut the rotting limb and save yourself and the game MA.

Pretty please!

 

[Mr. C. Chase]

The MU on items can be solved quickly. Replace 95% of items drops which are not shrapnel with nanocubes. So items are more rare at the factor 20. Muscle oil will be 110% in 3 days.

 

[Mr. C. Chase]

EDIT: For MindArk the money in the game has nothing to do with the MU on items. There balance and the withdrawal possibility stay the same. Since someone needs to give existing money or tt value or needs a depo to buy an item from someone who withdraw than. The Money supply itself stays the same. So MindArk has no benefit from zero value items. MU is just between players to keep them going.

So last thing from the original post was not correct. But agree with the rest.

 

[Deleted member 74680]

We all know what response this will get.

Zero fucks given or classic fowarded to the "team" reaponsible yada yada.

 

[sachi.mk2]

- DECISION #2: Introduction of one deed after the other;

Ever since Calypso Land Deeds were introduced more than a decade ago, we have seen more and more deeds enter the game. These were nothing but a quick cash grab for MindArk. Just another lazy way to make some quick cash instead of trying to improve their game and as a result of that improvement, increase the playerbase.

And from the available data the revenue has decreased on Planet Calypso from its release. CLD yearly payout, adjusted for inflation.

2012 - 341 peds
2013 - 297 peds
2014 - 248 peds

2024 - 198.00 peds

Looks to be a shortsighted policy as it decreases ped cycling and promotes ‘investing’.

 

[Msturlese]

The MU on items can be solved quickly. Replace 95% of items drops which are not shrapnel with nanocubes. So items are more rare at the factor 20. Muscle oil will be 110% in 3 days.

explain what items are worth to craft with muscle at 110 pls

 

[Mr. C. Chase]

explain what items are worth to craft with muscle at 110 pls

Depending on market situation items will find new MU´s when existing stocks are depleted. In any case its up to developers to fix the drop rate so it makes sense. 110% was just an example. Can be 103% can be 120% depending on drop rate adjustments.

 

[James Jimbo Linehan]

Excellent excellent post. It's so dam easy to fix and understand for anyone who actually plays this game.

Before attacking the bots so MA won't even lose in the short term, they can increase MU first with the steps perfectly laid out. A crapload of players waiting on the sidelines will play because of MU. THEN with increase in cycle and more players and new player retention from higher MU opportunities, MA can tackle botting. After botting is being punished even 3 or 7 days first offense in the beginning whatever, then MU will go to the moon and every1 and their mother will want to play.

It's so easy a cave man could do it.

 

[atomicstorm]

I think botting wont work if:
-> remove Operate action (next target), you have to manually target the mob ( click and
-> replace Auto Loot buff with other buff to compensate

Have to remove interact and the loot texts, if you're after the bots (by definitions).

Macroers are a different story. They are two distinct folks though I'm sure they are being discussed together.

 

[Msturlese]

i think there is a bottom line that is hard to see if not into markets...

many gamers are just stock holders in RL... a company stock price rise, no one seems to loose, MU is free money....
WRONG
we are in austrian perfect economic school..... FIXED AMOUNT OF MONEY (PEDs) in circulation.

let me explain better...
SENIORAGE is reserved to MA... ea NO ONE can "produce peds", all peds are from MA sales to PAYING Customers.
Activity tax is nto still clear to me in what measure impacts (some money is into global jackpot (second shrap loot, large globals and so).
gambling commission commands some strict rules, let's say it is 1% (i think that TT Value of skills is acconted for gambling commission rules)

we have two players
both deposit 100 ped
player 1 kills monsters, manufactures "useless oil", loose 1% of activity tax. total ped into circulation are 199 (100+99+activity tax depletion)
player 2 buy for 101% (it is less than loss, who understands percentages knows, other can skip to the end)
player 2 crafts and loose 1%
now total money into circulation is 198 (roughly)
so game is DEFLATIONARY, not inflationary. PROOF: Fall of item price is just RISE OF PED UTILITY VALUE because lesser and lesser are around.

MU is utility value... in deflationary environments there is preference for liquidity... ea PED CARD, AMMO.....

so MU can not be created if not people perceive they can pay more to get more... ECONOMIC PVP...
MU rise in 2 conditions
1. excess of PED ( increase in ped depositing)
2. expectation of utility value (RM Mayhem or pursuit for mining spaceships)

anyone that wants MORE MU is just calling for "we need fresh depositors"

why? Because MU is GAMERS' WAY to transfer activity tax losses to someone else.

so... we need more fresh players to transfer our losses to.... EU does not create richness... EU DESTROY money and let item value fall structurally.

the only way to have items rise in value is to have a drop ratio over unit ... ea i spend 100 ped i collect 100.10 TT
THIS creates value (if i kill for 100 and collect 105 we are in severe inflationary environment like diablo3 where ppl has 10b after 2 weeks and nothing to buy.

how to let ppl loot more than they spend? IMPOSSIBLE... if not via advertising... remove global scrolling text, add a banner like websites ?
let monster drop "KFC Tokens?" "Cola tokens?" "prime video free 1 week access tokens?" yes it is extreme view but that can fill the gap

no other way to rise MU than to create MORE USE FOR AN ITEM THAN PED ON CARD.

 

[JanOaki]

Just make mobs drop mostly shrapnel and make oils rare. That will fix MU issue. Or make new BPS /Quests to get items which require tons of resources.

 

[Raixander Raix Leecan]

Get rid of skill and buff pills from everywhere. Mission rewards, Mayhem vendor, strongboxes, everywhere. Replace them with limited pill crafting blueprints using unused components and rares from tailings. New huge niche in crafting and a lot of problems solved.

And, f-s sake, end the long agony of Mayhem vendor UL items. Mayhem vendor should be for longer lasting L items only. Move the UL items into strongboxes as extremly rare drops. Adds some value to strongboxes.

 

[Azgarot]

What I do and what I know are different things, and this goes for everyone. Non are their work, it's all about capacity of understanding
things that matter.
If we turn it around, everyone doing mistakes in code, graphics and so on are all working professionaly, for me it just shows one
should never make conclusions just based on what people do at their work.

Before I say anything else, I want to make one thing very clear, in case it wasn't clear in my initial reply to you. I meant absolutely no offense with that statement, my intention was not to belittle you, insult you in any way, put you in an awkward position or any number of other things. I was just stating, that I have no knowledge of what your professional background is and whether or not you have had experience in software development but I personally have. I own a company which does software development and data analysis. This is why I know that this is something that is technically doable. When I said, it's not up for debate, I said that because this is something I know. If I know anything in life, it's my work, what I do. I am not saying this because I don't want to hear the other side or dismiss someone else's opinion, I am just saying that a technical solution can be created and will solve the problem of bots if that is MindArk's desire. Hell, let them hire my my company for the task if they can't do it themselves and I will show you firsthand that it can be done. With all do respect, you as an enthusiast in the field and me as a professional have a different level of understanding of this matter, Joat.

Speaking of mistakes in code and other areas of work, that is absolutely correct. There is a saying in my language that says: "He who works, makes mistakes." This is a God given truth. I just don't understand what this has to do with any of what I was saying.

When I talk about punishments in solutions its about things like limit time to play, limit skillgain and so on.
Solutions should be to have a game play that forces you to be active, where bots will have it really hard time to do the job.
Sadly when there is a potential to get RL money from something same type of individuals shows up, only looking
for personal gains and low insterest in the product itself.

We had a misunderstanding here, it was my understanding that you wanted to say that there should be no punishments for those that break the rules. My stance in this regard is that if someone breaks the rules, there must be consequences. What those consequences are should be up to the authority (in this case MindArk). I am not advocating for limiting time to play, some people have busy weekdays and then go crazy on the weekends, more power to them.

Please don't use that narcissistic bullshit tactic to try give more power in your answer, thats just an illusion that works in your head.
For me that have study narcissism enough that just made me red flag you as person that might have these traits when using rapists
and murderers as an analogy.
You used another tactic earlier also, when you said its not debatable, that is a tactic they use when they don't like
what they see or hear and just want their opinion and no one elses. I really hope though that you are not a narcissistic individual.

Wow, a narcissist, really, Joat? A narcissist?

Give me a break, mate. If you have really studied psychology (I don't know how else you could have studied narcissism if not through psychology), you should be more careful throwing diagnoses around on a public forum. Just consider for a moment how big of an insult that is. I am not a narcissist, I am just frustrated beyond words, hence my poor choice of words (eg. murderer) in my analogy but let's leave the worst of the worst of human beings aside and let's use thieves and bullies instead, the result is the same. I am frustrated with this constant back and forth in the game with no clear vision or path for the game. It keeps deteriorating over time because of the the lack of direction and ignoring some fundamental issues.

This may seem like a ridiculous reason to snap so much at MindArk but space mining was the last straw for me. It had such great promise and look at the way it was implemented. We have rare planetside ores and gems in Tailings, just look at the impact on the economy. I unknowingly supported this by winning one of the Prospector ships in the event.

Back in 2023rd, I was competing in the mining Gold Rush on Arkadia. Agg beat me hands down. This person is one hell of a miner. I gave it my all back then. I 100% neglected everything in my life, family, business, all social interactions, gym, just to grind like a machine. By the time it was finished, I caught a nasty cold/flu because my immune system was extremely weakened by the exhaustion. Agg won the amp. We are not friends, we barely had any communication but I respect them. A few days ago, they opened a sales thread in which they're selling all of their mining gear. Our number one miner in Entropia is selling out because mining was obliterated.

Side note:
In these last two days, since I created this thread, I had a lot of communication with different friends in EU and it is amazing how many people actually believe that botting in Entropia is a good thing. So many people believe that MindArk wouldn't be able to keep the game afloat without it that it's scary. What I find scary in this is the effect it has on the economy. We are going towards Unreal Engine 5. Unlike some people, I actually do believe that MindArk will deliver on that promise. But even when we do get Unreal Engine 5 and Entropia gets on the Epic Games (I think this was the plan), the bot problem will persist and I am not sure how many new players we can hope to bring to Entropia given the underlying issue.

Another thing is that I have no doubt that MindArk is more than capable of making the right decisions, just look at the new immersive AI NPCs, they are definitely a step in the right direction. However, here is the problem with the two updates in two weeks:

- first one obliterates mining and turns it into an obsolete profession altogether;
- second one brings these new NPCs which are a great thing.

So while one does something good, the other deals another devastating blow to the game. This should stop, we desperately need someone to be in charge of balancing the game. If the botting is here to stay, help people skill or whatever but we need to gate endgame behind things such as RDI, Spina etc. so that manual play is rewarded. Otherwise, we are in a downward spiral.

 

[theProphet]

if MA were able to fix it, then the clientloader wouldn't still start internet exploder

 

[Joat]

Before I say anything else, I want to make one thing very clear, in case it wasn't clear in my initial reply to you. I meant absolutely no offense with that statement, my intention was not to belittle you, insult you in any way, put you in an awkward position or any number of other things. I was just stating, that I have no knowledge of what your professional background is and whether or not you have had experience in software development but I personally have. I own a company which does software development and data analysis. This is why I know that this is something that is technically doable. When I said, it's not up for debate, I said that because this is something I know. If I know anything in life, it's my work, what I do. I am not saying this because I don't want to hear the other side or dismiss someone else's opinion, I am just saying that a technical solution can be created and will solve the problem of bots if that is MindArk's desire. Hell, let them hire my my company for the task if they can't do it themselves and I will show you firsthand that it can be done. With all do respect, you as an enthusiast in the field and me as a professional have a different level of understanding of this matter, Joat.

Speaking of mistakes in code and other areas of work, that is absolutely correct. There is a saying in my language that says: "He who works, makes mistakes." This is a God given truth. I just don't understand what this has to do with any of what I was saying.



We had a misunderstanding here, it was my understanding that you wanted to say that there should be no punishments for those that break the rules. My stance in this regard is that if someone breaks the rules, there must be consequences. What those consequences are should be up to the authority (in this case MindArk). I am not advocating for limiting time to play, some people have busy weekdays and then go crazy on the weekends, more power to them.



Wow, a narcissist, really, Joat? A narcissist?

Give me a break, mate. If you have really studied psychology (I don't know how else you could have studied narcissism if not through psychology), you should be more careful throwing diagnoses around on a public forum. Just consider for a moment how big of an insult that is. I am not a narcissist, I am just frustrated beyond words, hence my poor choice of words (eg. murderer) in my analogy but let's leave the worst of the worst of human beings aside and let's use thieves and bullies instead, the result is the same. I am frustrated with this constant back and forth in the game with no clear vision or path for the game. It keeps deteriorating over time because of the the lack of direction and ignoring some fundamental issues.

This may seem like a ridiculous reason to snap so much at MindArk but space mining was the last straw for me. It had such great promise and look at the way it was implemented. We have rare planetside ores and gems in Tailings, just look at the impact on the economy. I unknowingly supported this by winning one of the Prospector ships in the event.

Back in 2023rd, I was competing in the mining Gold Rush on Arkadia. Agg beat me hands down. This person is one hell of a miner. I gave it my all back then. I 100% neglected everything in my life, family, business, all social interactions, gym, just to grind like a machine. By the time it was finished, I caught a nasty cold/flu because my immune system was extremely weakened by the exhaustion. Agg won the amp. We are not friends, we barely had any communication but I respect them. A few days ago, they opened a sales thread in which they're selling all of their mining gear. Our number one miner in Entropia is selling out because mining was obliterated.

Side note:
In these last two days, since I created this thread, I had a lot of communication with different friends in EU and it is amazing how many people actually believe that botting in Entropia is a good thing. So many people believe that MindArk wouldn't be able to keep the game afloat without it that it's scary. What I find scary in this is the effect it has on the economy. We are going towards Unreal Engine 5. Unlike some people, I actually do believe that MindArk will deliver on that promise. But even when we do get Unreal Engine 5 and Entropia gets on the Epic Games (I think this was the plan), the bot problem will persist and I am not sure how many new players we can hope to bring to Entropia given the underlying issue.

Another thing is that I have no doubt that MindArk is more than capable of making the right decisions, just look at the new immersive AI NPCs, they are definitely a step in the right direction. However, here is the problem with the two updates in two weeks:

- first one obliterates mining and turns it into an obsolete profession altogether;
- second one brings these new NPCs which are a great thing.

So while one does something good, the other deals another devastating blow to the game. This should stop, we desperately need someone to be in charge of balancing the game. If the botting is here to stay, help people skill or whatever but we need to gate endgame behind things such as RDI, Spina etc. so that manual play is rewarded. Otherwise, we are in a downward spiral.

Then you do know what happens around some tech labs, and a better understanding of what can and can't be done.
Way too often we see people state its so easy to fix but base that only on their thoughts and emotions.
When it comes to MA and what they used to do long time ago e.g hyping things that aren't realistic just to get some attention, poor
development of features, spending time and money on things that wasn't needed and neglecting things that was most definitly needed
I lost my respect for them then. Today I have a different view on them, it has improved a lot but still get that odd feeling they are
developing EU as a side project rather than the main project.
Looking at some of their mistakes they have done I get the feeling their routines around e.g checking everything is ok before releasing
a new item isn't so good. This should be possible to improve a lot.

When it comes to punishment of breasking the rules, I guess it has to do per situation. There could for sure be a ladder
where they don't perma ban someone instantly, but if it happens more than two three times they are out.
Other situations might need a perma ban directly.
One thing is for sure, they need to do something about it.

No I don't diagnose you as a narcissist, just that you used their tactic there. Everyone have narcissistic traits, I have it, you have it, everyone,
its when someone have a certain amount of them and as behaviour they are seen as a possible narcissistic individual.
For most people that are not seen as a narcissitic individual they have them per occasion or situation, and not so often as a behaviour.
Just as you are really fed up with situation in EU, I'm that with narcissistic behaviours. Overreacting too often I guess.
Its a very interesting subject though since the understanding of it continously evolve.
As with everything in life, we need to have a scientist mind set.

What I forgot to mention in last reply was the reason why I wrote as I did. I concentrated too much on reply to me instead of the thread OP.
When we do a open letter to e.g MA we should drop all these tactics, making the post more on point of the problems, no name calling
or belittle them and so on.
Yes it might look more boring and dull that way but there is a good reason for this.
Since we don't know who from MA are reading these threads we don't know how they operate as individuals.
If "right" type of people reading it then it doesn't matter they will go through the post and looking for ideas, suggestions, improvements
but also for critics, no matter how the post is written.
If "wrong" people reading it they leave at the first name calling or other negative things written about MA or the staff.

Would be a real waste of time if they miss out what was written in OP due to this, since they will miss out on a lot of good ideas then.

 

[Pettson&Findus]

GREED,
Two years ago they got rid of 40% of the staff, how can we expect good game design and development from Mindark when they do this and expect Ai to replace them, ridiculous and all driven by greed.
Everything they have done since then is to try and suck more money from us and into their own pockets. With the 100% focus on calypso and space, it’s obvious Mindark is squeezing out their planet partners, disgusting behaviour, especially after all the hype and promises the new planet owners and us the players got from Mindark. If I owned a planet I would be extremely pissed off, and I will not be surprised if we see Mindark back in court trying to defend their actions.

I will be selling out(if I can find anyone to buy my shit).

I will keep my avatar and play low level and socialise, my large deposits have stopped a while back, and at this rate I really can’t see anyone wanting to “invest” in their avatar with the state of EU and MindArk.

 

[Theocles]

I 100% agree, if things at mindark are so bad that they need people to be afk cycling 24hrs a day, maybe they should sell the game to someone who cares. Every decision they make is simply for personal gain, never considering how their actions affect the players who still play.

Killing hunting markup with fff hunting, remember when seasonal boxes were more than 30 pec? Hunting for nanocubes at 100.6% is literally a joke.

Moved pyrite to a zone where no skill required to mine there, just roll an alt and keep your main hunting afk elsewhere.

Lets make mining in space, but wait, lets just put all the planetside ores in space so we can screw the markup even more, things that are capped planetside from waves dont seem to have that issue with tailings refinement.

I think the addition of space mining is awesome, but ffs dont ruin all the markup planetside for this, put the work in and new ores and stuff rather than just bring all the markup in game to 0.

Mindark, im sure some of us are quite sick of repeating ourselves on these subjects, listen to your players. For once

 

[afreeti]

To fix this game you need to look at crafting
mu doesnt come from thin air crafters need to want to buy your mats because they think they can make something more valuable with it

vixen gears have stayed nearly stable for a decade at high mu even with bots on them 24/7
because even with people hunting them non stop they barely meet the demand, a single mob drops them and they are used in d-class one of the most sold amps in the game

tie a semi rare item to one and only one mob and make it be used in attachment crafting and you'd have a stable mu regardless of bots
is what i would say if ma would stop shooting themselves in the foot

arkadia had a system like this with their amps until armatrix was introduced to be leagues better and only use generic ingredients which killed it
pyrite was largely pvp only until now with space mining the list goes on

hell they could have easily introduced space weapon amps and tied it to a unique space mob and mu would have naturally been there but instead they killed pyrite and redulite

 

[John B Knight]

economies usually fail due to mismanagement, corruption, overtaxation, overregulation and unbalanced spending - the way to fix one does not come from more regulations, punishments,taxes the way to fix things is to identify the issues and solve them with opportunities, variety, choice and giving the right incentives.
this game has a small community, policing it will shrink it further not grow it
this games economy has lost half its marketvalue in a single year, any meassures that accelaerate that process are only gonna make things worse
the value of goods within the game comes from the need for them, to fix things there needs to be more choice, more need, more opportunities
bots, automated hunting as controversial as it may be is not what kills our economy - if the game was larger and had more players the same flood of goods would happen - the reason the markups go down is because the produced goods are not in demand as much as they should be - to increase that demand we need more products, choices, ways to grow our economy
the choice to 'work' 24/7 a lowpaying ,job' for goods/services of low markup at high operating costs - or to work smart and focus on high rewarding activities with only a few hours should be that of the players at all times - in an rce time is money in both directions depending if one makes smart of stupid decisions - the decisions itself however need to be free

 

[I need $]

To fix this game you need to look at crafting
mu doesnt come from thin air crafters need to want to buy your mats because they think they can make something more valuable with it

vixen gears have stayed nearly stable for a decade at high mu even with bots on them 24/7
because even with people hunting them non stop they barely meet the demand, a single mob drops them and they are used in d-class one of the most sold amps in the game

tie a semi rare item to one and only one mob and make it be used in attachment crafting and you'd have a stable mu regardless of bots
is what i would say if ma would stop shooting themselves in the foot

arkadia had a system like this with their amps until armatrix was introduced to be leagues better and only use generic ingredients which killed it
pyrite was largely pvp only until now with space mining the list goes on

hell they could have easily introduced space weapon amps and tied it to a unique space mob and mu would have naturally been there but instead they killed pyrite and redulite

Actually pyrite was hurt long time ago when they moved it from pvp4 to Argus. That's like four years ago?
But at those times there was bunch of players crying about dmg enh prices being too high. So MA did this, since then enhancers go down all the time.
Maybe it's better be careful about what you wish because this wasn't best solution at all

Edit.
Problem is that everything is UL, mostly superior to L and MA keep flooding us with more and more UL stuff. I never bought L gun during my 10 years here. Maybe few for pvp or something, but that's next to nothing. Good for me, but terrible for economy. Also amps, rings, pills, all this stuff need to be crafted. This needs to be changed imho. Game can't work as intended with this UL for everyone model. But we are knees deep already.

 

[James Jimbo Linehan]

Actually pyrite was hurt long time ago when they moved it from pvp4 to Argus. That's like four years ago?
But at those times there was bunch of players crying about dmg enh prices being too high. So MA did this, since then enhancers go down all the time.
Maybe it's better be careful about what you wish because this wasn't best solution at all

It's not even that it was entirely a bad decision either it's just that the balancing act is real bad. This is 1 example that they should be checking constantly. Check pyrite price, oh it tanked 10% or in this case 70%, now lower drop rate (in argus only) from 2000p/hr to 1200p/hr since less is being consumed. Main job above new updates or anything else in game should be first and foremost maintaining MU for us and find new ways to increase it. Instead they CHOOSE to lower it so no one wants to play anymore.

Why don't they just sell the company instead of intentionally killing it if they don't like their jobs?
Could Greed really be the answer where they just focus on new ways to cycle more forgetting entirely that only reason people cycle is for chance at MU?

Anyone know how to get in touch with one of the main shareholders or board people? They might not know the people in charge is intentionally killing the game and their words would carry more weight for sure.

 

[Msturlese]

happen - the reason the markups go down is because the produced goods are not in demand as much as they should be - to increase that demand we need more products, choices, ways to grow our economy

ANY gamer that cycle over 100k per month has some UL gears, possibily 100% to reduce MU consumption
as i said ATM we just have Enhancers market but due to the fact that all ppl knows it, they kill for output and mine in PVP3
so... output fell to 120% and so did Pyrite....
we have a market for tiering up weapons, and for socket components as a second level of supply chain
RDI supply unlimited amoutns of emerald, opal, duamonds... again we need fresh money into game or prices and mu level will go flat to 101%

 

[John B Knight]

ANY gamer that cycle over 100k per month has some UL gears, possibily 100% to reduce MU consumption
as i said ATM we just have Enhancers market but due to the fact that all ppl knows it, they kill for output and mine in PVP3
so... output fell to 120% and so did Pyrite....
we have a market for tiering up weapons, and for socket components as a second level of supply chain
RDI supply unlimited amoutns of emerald, opal, duamonds... again we need fresh money into game or prices and mu level will go flat to 101%

for 20 years that system worked not because unlimited gear was bad for the economy but because there was always something else to improve on, levels to gain, gear to upgrade, new gear to tier, old gear to turn in for something else - mindark could easily come up with new chains that consume old unlimited gear but they have allowed players to outlevel and outgear their game content and insteal of advancing the level and gear range for further progress to 1000+ and slowing down the skilling they instead dropped more and more gear for the very same levelrange making it pointless for players to do anything but farming without the need to get anything new.
the biggest issue of the economy isnt unlimited its having a grown playerbase that has surpassed game content - nothing wrong with fast progression as long as the devs are able to stay ahead of the players

 

[James Jimbo Linehan]

ANY gamer that cycle over 100k per month has some UL gears, possibily 100% to reduce MU consumption
as i said ATM we just have Enhancers market but due to the fact that all ppl knows it, they kill for output and mine in PVP3
so... output fell to 120% and so did Pyrite....
we have a market for tiering up weapons, and for socket components as a second level of supply chain
RDI supply unlimited amoutns of emerald, opal, duamonds... again we need fresh money into game or prices and mu level will go flat to 101%

We do need fresh money into the game at all times but there is already money in the game that we each have in our accounts and the whole point and reason people play is try and get more money which comes from other players. The main problem is that MA has now made it impossible there is no more perpetual system in place like there used to be. You're right the UL guns that every player now has did the most damage probably. It was supposed to be and meant to be a slow trickle and take years. Which is why azgarot is saying how bad botting is for the game. Imagine if instead of 1 person running 5 Alts geared to the max on mayhem 24/7 pulling guns left and right that instead it took 1 person playing 2-10 hours a day for it then game would be fine for another decade+. Hunting normal amount of time on regular loot then MU on oils etc would be fine.

Mining was still running mostly fine from just the crafting of amps . But it was awesome when it was guns and amps. And he's also right about space mining it could have been incredible and was an awesome chance to boost game instead it turned into the last straw for basically everyone by killing the rest of the MU.

Space mining problems:

1. TT lasers are way too big. Compare with a TT sword, gun or finder etc. Fresh accounts can cycle 1000p in tailings pretty quick never needing to use MU.
Fix: make TT lasers smaller.

2. Added unlimited planet ores except 1 space ore. (Most obvious problem)
Fix: Do extremely low hourly cap on resources including the now easy space ones like lanorium/morpheus so planet/space miners aren't chasing 101%.

3. tailings drop comes 100% of loot and even comes back in the turn in for more chances
Fix: make tailings come as 10-20% of loot rest shrap/lyst/iron (no belkar)with a max cap of 50p tailings for globals/hofs

4. Blueprints.
Fix: The blueprints to make the lasers need to include components that use all of the above and some hunting and on planet only mats(like henren, magerian etc since the goal should be steering away from UL items so need to use up the tiering mats more). The blueprints should be mostly only from using Astral frags to keep that MU and a very small amount from crafting per hour as a drop.

5. Gems.
They just need to be flat out removed. Gems should only be from big crafting hits. This game needs players crafting going for an ATH and the Gems being a "carrot". We need small amount of gems to maintain MU because we should be steering away from UL more and more.

6. Explosive projectiles
This was the only smart move that i didnt even think of so credit there is due for sure.
Fix: for some reason only half the lasers need EPs while half can use UA and weapon cells still. They all including TT ones should be EPs only which will boost MU on nanos and therefore everything else.

We all love this game and want it to succeed but for the first time I'm actually thinking the sky is falling for real and for good this time. The direction MA is going and not doing these simple things to make it so we keep cycling is the kind of thing that makes me think we are going to have accounts we just leave behind with 100ks of ped in gear we can't sell and call it a day. Hopefully it's not too late already for space/planet mining and they race to put in the Fixes and announce they will be working on the other problems or no one will have faith or trust enough to buy anything valuable knowing our investment is a garenteed 100% loss. Please do the right things MA.

Thanks for fixing the backpack speed and nice job on the new dailies. Let's fix these problems and get the game back on track.

 

[Creo]

A lot of valid points.

1.
One important point we cannot ignore; Mayhem tokens are basically the efforts and investments of players.
You could re-name Mayhem tokens to "The efforts and Investments of Players". Some players have been grinding these for years. Some spent 10K $. Some much more.

Whatever changes you do to the Mayhem format/vendor, you need to take into account that Tokens are essentially a loan. A loan from the players, to Mindark. For that reason, you cannot simply "deplete" Mayhem tokens. Offering Token-owners a handful of (L) guns and a bunch of pills is going to make half of the remaining player-base quit the game.

There is an expression: A card laid, is a card played.
MA offered people those tokens. And people have cycled and paid to acquire said tokens.

I agree - Re-structure Mayhems, offer a larger variety of items, introduce new vendors, introduce new Resource Mayhem Vendors, or Space Vendors.
But - Let people pull. Its their efforts, and their tokens.

2.

Having exclusive hunting-gear as rewards in mining events is not a bad idea. It will stimulate players to engage in several
professions, rather than segmenting the game.

1.
One important point we cannot ignore; Mayhem tokens are basically the efforts and investments of players.
You could re-name Mayhem tokens to "The efforts and Investments of Players". ManySome players have been grinding Botting/Macroing these for years. Some spent 10K $. Some much more.
‐-------------
There. Fixed that for you.

My condolences to those who took the risk, investment, whatever you want to call it.

Not everyone can win.

 

[Creo]

 

[Aloisius]

I always said MA should farm out the creative talent! Perfect example - all this energy in this post is similar to past players postings. We know what this game is and we know what the world needs in the line of games. The best games always have mod editors - and MA always misses the boat for some strange reason.

 

[SoberPhil]

Some good points there, and yes, botting is an issue, yet the developer did everything to facilitate its spread. In other MMOs there are bots as well of course, but they also have tons of active players so it might not be that noticeable, in EU it's a different picture. Of course we need new players but with too few opportunities left for them they're gonna be hard to recruit, and people do see the bots, so that's a deterrent as well for an MMO. The guys doing it aren't necessarily bad, they just go with what's allowed and eventually kill the MU for themselves as well, so they bot themselves in the foot. And don't get me started on lootable space... that needs to be fixed somehow, at least mark the lootable zones on the map, or maybe remove it altogether, keep planetside lootable tho for those who like it.

But look at the bright side, space mining is kinda different and requires manual input, loot tables need a bit of balancing sure but all in all this could be a step in the right direction. The new hunting dailies on Calypso as well - no point in botting those, have to constantly move around the map looking for different spawns, so active gameplay is required here as well. I think they're trying to compensate the general drop in MU with rewards like that giving the players a reason to hunt. Also a step in the right direction I say, great addition to the game those missions and the more the better. Maybe even make some interplanetary ones, that would be cool.

 

[James Jimbo Linehan]

Some good points there, and yes, botting is an issue, yet the developer did everything to facilitate its spread. In other MMOs there are bots as well of course, but they also have tons of active players so it might not be that noticeable, in EU it's a different picture. Of course we need new players but with too few opportunities left for them they're gonna be hard to recruit, and people do see the bots, so that's a deterrent as well for an MMO. The guys doing it aren't necessarily bad, they just go with what's allowed and eventually kill the MU for themselves as well, so they bot themselves in the foot. And don't get me started on lootable space... that needs to be fixed somehow, at least mark the lootable zones on the map, or maybe remove it altogether, keep planetside lootable tho for those who like it.

But look at the bright side, space mining is kinda different and requires manual input, loot tables need a bit of balancing sure but all in all this could be a step in the right direction. The new hunting dailies on Calypso as well - no point in botting those, have to constantly move around the map looking for different spawns, so active gameplay is required here as well. I think they're trying to compensate the general drop in MU with rewards like that giving the players a reason to hunt. Also a step in the right direction I say, great addition to the game those missions and the more the better. Maybe even make some interplanetary ones, that would be cool.

MA does introduce some great ideas and things good for the game then at time of implementation slips in a new type of cancer for some reason even tho the bringing game back to life way was either just as easy or easier. The new AI dailies are pretty good rewarding active gameplay. Although I'm kind of worried about where the money is coming from to pay for that. I doubt it's coming out of MAs pocket, and if they lower all returns even slightly to pay for it it'll be a net negative for the game long term (it doesn't seem like anyone cares or even wants to know). Hopefully you're wrong about this being MAs answer to lower MU these days. If instead of creating more MU opportunities (bps for useful limited items), they go the route of taking from 1 hunter and giving to another because they did a daily then that won't end well being stuck hunting the same boring mobs over and over (depending on how they are funding it).

The space update could be a great addition if they fix the loot table like you said + bp mats, and few other problems. But since they didn't do an immediate hot fix on it within the first hour seeing their devastating mistake with UL loot table especially, MA is signaling everyone to sell their gear and quit and that they are too out of touch with the game to know how the complex economy works. So now we got everyone trying to leave because of MA continuously going the opposite direction of where this game needs to go. Maybe we are the suckers for sticking around and holding out hope they wake up.. guess time will tell.


As of 1:31 pm EST 2/16/25
Planet ores/rares UL in space bug still not fixed.

 

[Azgarot]

Since we don't know who from MA are reading these threads we don't know how they operate as individuals.
If "right" type of people reading it then it doesn't matter they will go through the post and looking for ideas, suggestions, improvements
but also for critics, no matter how the post is written.
If "wrong" people reading it they leave at the first name calling or other negative things written about MA or the staff.

Would be a real waste of time if they miss out what was written in OP due to this, since they will miss out on a lot of good ideas then.

Actually, this was already on my mind. Not even as much because of who's reading it but more so because it should be phrased properly and respectfully. The fact is, I am frustrated by these issues and I was going through a hardship irl at the time of writing, but the reality is that these issues are really not based on emotions, they are genuine issues. Ultimately, we should all try and hold ourselves to a higher standard so I have to admit that I crossed the line with the way I wrote the OP. Quite honestly, the way it was written is very much out of character for me and I just didn't have the time to sit down and redact / edit the OP. This last week was spent with all three of my kids having constant high fever, one of them a newborn, as well as my wife and myself. This was all happening on top of my wife's spine surgery from the week before. To say that we were going through a nightmare would be an understatement and if I am being honest, being on edge irl has taken its toll on me this week, if nothing else, then simply because of extreme lack of sleep.

bots, automated hunting as controversial as it may be is not what kills our economy - if the game was larger and had more players the same flood of goods would happen - the reason the markups go down is because the produced goods are not in demand as much as they should be - to increase that demand we need more products, choices, ways to grow our economy
the choice to 'work' 24/7 a lowpaying ,job' for goods/services of low markup at high operating costs - or to work smart and focus on high rewarding activities with only a few hours should be that of the players at all times - in an rce time is money in both directions depending if one makes smart of stupid decisions - the decisions itself however need to be free

JBK, I find it hard to believe that a player of your level can't see something as obvious as the fact that no amount of newcomers or new uses for existing materials will ever be able to use up the materials that can be grinded and accumulated within 24 hours by a handful of people. Foe example, right now, if we only take a look at the daily amounts of all oils combined sold on the AH (which in today's market is where the majority of these materials are sold, a much smaller fraction is sold in P2P trades), we can see that 4-5 ubers can farm more than enough to cover the daily demand of all of Entropia Universe. And there isn't 4-5 of us playing at a high level, there is about a hundred of us.

The other problem is, if the playerbase was to increase by ten times or even a hundred times, it would be no more than a proportional increase. It would still be the same proportion between people using macros and those not using them meaning that the markup of materials would continue to be at the ground level. Without adding new UL items, the prices would possibly rebound some in this scenario but this is not at all my point. I have no problems with my items losing value, my problem is that nothing has value in the game right now. Stackables are all worthless due to oevrsupply.

Besides, allowing botting is, in fact, blatantly mismanaging the Entropia Universe's economy. Bots can never be healthy for a game's economy, they always end up oversupplying the materials.

This is not to say that there should be no new uses for the materials that exist in the game but to say that any amount of new uses would change the situation in terms of material oversupply due to botting is just invalid, mate. I was rocking a Mod Nano until a few weeks ago, I know how much I could cycle with it per hour, it's scary amount of PED turnover. Imagine if 15 of us do it 24/7 and this is just the Mod Nanos...

for 20 years that system worked not because unlimited gear was bad for the economy but because there was always something else to improve on, levels to gain, gear to upgrade, new gear to tier, old gear to turn in for something else - mindark could easily come up with new chains that consume old unlimited gear but they have allowed players to outlevel and outgear their game content and insteal of advancing the level and gear range for further progress to 1000+ and slowing down the skilling they instead dropped more and more gear for the very same levelrange making it pointless for players to do anything but farming without the need to get anything new.
the biggest issue of the economy isnt unlimited its having a grown playerbase that has surpassed game content - nothing wrong with fast progression as long as the devs are able to stay ahead of the players

And again, a huge majority of the playerbase that greatly surpassed the level requirements for the weaponry that we have in the game, did so through the use of bots. How many people would ever even reach lv1000 without bots and would anyone ever even reach it? It's highly unlikely in a the span of a lifetime.

New items could be introduced and the bar could be risen but this is another reason why I believe MindArk allowed Entropia to rot to its core for far too long. Now we have people with such obscenely high levels that it makes no sense to ever even try to reach those levels for a regular player.

This is why I even said in my OP that if what's needed to fix this is to reset the levels of every macro user retroactively, even that is an option but it must be MindArk that makes the decision. Even that would be better than the alternative which is leaving the bots in the game. This may sound unfair at first, but in reality it would be no different than confiscating illegally obtained property from criminals.

5. Gems.
They just need to be flat out removed. Gems should only be from big crafting hits. This game needs players crafting going for an ATH and the Gems being a "carrot". We need small amount of gems to maintain MU because we should be steering away from UL more and more.

I truly agree with everything you said in your post, I am happy to see that there are more people who believe that the main reason of low average markups is indeed the oversupply caused by botting because frankly, it is. That is the main reason, of course that having more uses for the materials would increase the markups on those but the effect is negligible in comparison to the damage inflicted by botting.

I just wanted to add one more thing which I didn't think of when I was writing the OP on the subject of gems. I also believe that gems have no business being in Tailings at all and not only because of screwing crafters but also because this thing has now made RDI completely redundant. One of if not the best instance / content in the entire game was made completely redundant. I truly hope @Ludvig|MindArk can see this and take it to the higher ups. Just look at the following images (taken earlier today) and ask yourself if this looks even remotely right:

With that said, botting is a huge issue and has been a lasting one for a very long period of time now, it has gone rampant and unchecked but imho, the priority should be to first fix the acute damage that was done by the space mining. One of the first things that needs to be done is to remove the gems from Tailings.


Edit: Adjusted the screenshot sizes.