Opinion Poll Please all read This....

[Hurrikane]

Hi, a mistake has been made by me, that affects a team progressing. A typo caused me to inform Team Norway they needed 185 points or more to progress, not 285. They eventually scored 243. They tell me they slowed down once they knew they had the 185 they thought they needed and didn't go all out for further points or the Sweep bonus. I believe them.

Norways' total was 472. Greece were the next in the Group to them, with a Total of 517, a difference of 45. Greece at the moment go through.

It's a sticky situation, and I apologise big-time for the slip-up.

I'd like your opinons as WoF participants on what to do.

I can either:

1. Allow Norway to replay a 3-hour hunt alone against the Stage 3 Moblist (to ask Czech Republic to play again would be unfair, so as long as Norway's score still beat Czech Republics the bonuses would be the same).
This would have to take place Sunday or Monday at the latest, as the extra spawns are due to dissappear.

2. Allow Norway to play the first Stage 4 match alongside Greece and their Opponents, and allow the highest-scoring of them go through.

3. Other (post to explain)


Other solutions I went though involved handing out of points in some way, which did not work, it's specualting on what globals might have been scored.

Your opinions please.

Hurrikane

 

[Johned]

Tough mistake Q, but mistakes happen. I understood that Norway did not go for the sweep because they knew they were in and I imagine it the team I was on hit the points we needed we probably would have slowed down as well.

If it were me I would like option 2.

Good luck to everyone that made it to round 4.

 

[Skam]

I think option 2 is the best.

To explain a little what happened for those who read this but didnt know anything about the situation:

We (Norway) were told we needed 185 points to progress to the next round.
During the match we managed to get variety bonus and ~185 points about 2 hours in. So we had 1 hour to go when we thought we were 'safe' and the only thing we needed to do was keep ahead of Czech.

After that point the main team gathered up again on malc. Hey its the most fun (we had tons of fun!) and we had what we needed so no point in stressing and going for sweep -or so we thought.

We had two very valueable and high dps supportmembers fap us during this time, and support was also given the message that we had passed the milestone that we had set -so basically they could just hunt whatever mob they felt for.

If I (I was put in lead this round) had known it was 285 not 185, I would of course have put the whole main team on the last mainteam-mob and sent the support back to take the remains of the Support mobs. I think that during 1 hour this would be possible.

Im very happy to see that Hurrikane is going out of a limb here to fix things right. Even if the next round knocks us out or not, its very appreciated. +Rep!

Edit: The only negative is of course the fact that First round stage 4 is on the weekend of 16-17th of May. 17th of May is Norway's national day, and 16th is usually celebrated with some heavy drinking while 17th is family and parade day.. DOH! Hopefully 'early' 16th will work?

Edit 2: Dammit it would be nice if Chopper could verify it, but all our discussion in the team chat was in Norwegian >.<

 

[Chopper]

Doh. and Bugger.

As Zar rightly says, mistakes happen, but Doh.

I judged for Norway during the match in question, and I can confirm that they were informed that 185 was the total required and that they played specifically to that total... I have no doubt that things would have been different had they known otherwise.

As for solutions... The twp options Hurri presented are both reasonable. Norway should be given the choice of the two, and Greece should be given an oportunity to object if they choose the latter...

OR... Norway and Greece could fight it out in a Ring. That's always fun

So, what do You want, Norway?


And btw Skam, have you punished Stoik yet for nicking that malc..?

 

[Skam]

And btw Skam, have you punished Stoik yet for nicking that malc..?

I will, when he least expect it...

 

[Chopper]

I will, when he least expect it...

Yikes. Cute, And Bad... Fatal combination...

 

[Eron²]

i dont know if im allowed to vote or to have a voice here *not being involved with Wof* but....


1. you the leader of WoF gave the amounts.
2. that amount was achieved.
3. that amount was broken and more.


as i see it you told them you make 185 points you move on.

they made 243

their score is 58 points above what you told them

therefore they move on.

simple.

it sucks but it is the honorable thing to do.

think of the peanuts cartoons ... if you dont let them advance you are lucy to charlie brown, just pulling that football away.


i must also say i would respect you (Hurrikane) and all players of the WoF a lot more if this error is owned up to and the fight continues with Norway in it.

all that said i have no preference to any team winning, i honestly do not know what teams are even still playing.

 

[Hurrikane]

i dont know if im allowed to vote or to have a voice here *not being involved with Wof* but....


1. you the leader of WoF gave the amounts.
2. that amount was achieved.
3. that amount was broken and more.


as i see it you told them you make 185 points you move on.

they made 243

their score is 58 points above what you told them

therefore they move on.

simple.

it sucks but it is the honorable thing to do.

think of the peanuts cartoons ... if you dont let them advance you are lucy to charlie brown, just pulling that football away.


i must also say i would respect you (Hurrikane) and all players of the WoF a lot more if this error is owned up to and the fight continues with Norway in it.

all that said i have no preference to any team winning, i honestly do not know what teams are even still playing.

Interesting take on it, but I don't want ot be Lucy pulling the ball from Greece either.

This all boils down to whether Norway could beat Greece or not, so to let them play a joint Round 1 of Stage 4 as a decider seems fairest so far; I wouldn't mind some Greek opinion on this.

Hurrikane

 

[WoenK]

This is a joke, right ?!
Ok, mistakes can happen, but normally a team checks the scores before a match.
And a serious team does not rely an hour before a match has finished on a score which it believes it has already won. Did the other teams relax and take it easier even though they were sure they won a match ?
Or did they try to get the most they could get?
A lot of things can happen in one hour.

I am against an elimination in stage 4 or a replay.
Greece won fair against them in round one and they did not give the best they could when they had their chance!


And on a sidenote...a judge observes and does not announce the winner of a match before it has ended.

 

[Hurrikane]

This is a joke, right ?!
Ok, mistakes can happen, but normally a team checks the scores before a match.
And a serious team does not rely an hour before a match has finished on a score which it believes it has already won. Did the other teams relax and take it easier even though they were sure they won a match ?
Or did they try to get the most they could get?
A lot of things can happen in one hour.

I am against an elimination in stage 4 or a replay.
Greece won fair against them in round one and they did not give the best they could when they had their chance!


And on a sidenote...a judge observes and does not announce the winner of a match before it has ended.

I think it's fair to say a team told by the arranger of the tournament that they only need 185 points might slow down and save some PED once that total is reached.

Hurrikane

 

[jod]

Hmm a messy situation indeed

Hard to say exactly which way to go but if i was norway i may be inclined to want to go into the next round and hunt when others are hunting rather than be the only team out there contributing to the lootpool.

On the other hand the last round was to see who could perform best on those mobs.

Perhaps Norway is better suited to the new mob list than greece is in which case it wouldnt seem fair on greece.

If Greece were to to have qualified over Norway in the earlier rounds and yet fall at the next step due to the mob difficulty then that is the luck of the Mob draw.
To say "Well yeah you may well have beat them on these mobs but we are going to play these mobs instead" somehow doesn't sit right with me.

So for me i say Norway replays round 3.

Either way though Goodluck to both teams

 

[WoenK]

I think it's fair to say a team told by the arranger of the tournament that they only need 185 points might slow down and save some PED once that total is reached.

Hurrikane

Sorry, but it is already quite shitty that they had their round 2 replay after the rest had their round 3 played.
Your intentions to have them save some PEDs might have been good, but right now this feels more like you are arranging that they are in stage 4.
A judge should remain always objective and not favour any team.

 

[Basilias]

Come on guys,if u dont want Greece in the next round just tell us u dont want us...What joke is this now?A poll for what???
We r in the next round as the second team in the group and we dont really care if a judge made such a big mistake,it is not our fault guys,if Hurricane want to apologize for his fault and he wants to pass Norway too in the next round Team Greece has not any problem about that...
But We dont want to listen jokes such Norway to replay again the third round.
Greece is second and has passed in the fourth round.
Thats it.

 

[Skam]

This is a joke, right ?!
Ok, mistakes can happen, but normally a team checks the scores before a match.

When Hurrikane posts in our thread, that we check before the match, that those were our scores we didnt really feel the need to check up on Hurrikane's work, tbh.
When that again is repeated when we start the match, and throughout the match, then no -I didnt think Id have to check if the judges were wrong

And a serious team does not rely an hour before a match has finished on a score which it believes it has already won. Did the other teams relax and take it easier even though they were sure they won a match ?
Or did they try to get the most they could get?
A lot of things can happen in one hour.

Maybe you dont think we're serious then. Okay? Thats your opinion.

Its not like we dropped our weapons and sat down to have cookies and tea. We kept on hunting, but we didnt stress with the sweep bonus because we thought we weren't going to need it.

I am against an elimination in stage 4 or a replay.
Greece won fair against them in round one and they did not give the best they could when they had their chance!

Im not sure if you play WoF, or participate in other point-system events (such as CL for example) but here it goes.
There is a Round Scoreboard (all the scores put together) which determines weather you pull through or not.
And just like in Champions League, one day might be your prime and one day might be your downfall. Loot is, like its said so many times before, dynamic.
So maybe you have 2 weeks that is horrible for you, and maybe 2 weeks its better. So the end result is the one that matters, imo.

Greece did a great job and I think they deserve it too. I dont want to rob them out of anything. Thats why I think option 2 is the best one. I certainly do not want to cause any ill feelings between Norway, Greece or the judges because of this!

I didnt ask Hurrikane for this, nor did any of the other in team norway. I certainly didnt expect it, but I think its cool that he does it still.

Sorry, but it is already quite shitty that they had their round 2 replay after the rest had their round 3 played.

What? Round 2 was supposed to go on when the Entropia Server was booted. It was never "replayed", it was just delayed because of the serverfailure.

It wasnt just us playing today. Finland and Eudoria played aswell (1/2 event). This has nothing to do with favorism like you imply it is. It has to do with timeslots and what was most practical for both teams, judges and so on..

 

[BlackHawk]

Is a bad situation. But the fairest way to solve is to allow both to go in the next round. They will be considered as one team, but only one of them can go in semifinals. So if one will end up in first place and one second, in semifinal will go first and third place in that group.

Also, the matches will be always at the same time with another opponent in the group. It will be a bit more crowded in that slot if you have 1 more team in the same group, but at least is fair.


To have one match that will eliminate one of them on the next stage seems unfair, because luck will play a more important role in a single match than in 3 matches, and also the 2 teams will be forced into more expenses for the competition that the rest of the teams from a fault that is not their own.

Norway slowdown is understandable. Anyone would try to limit the costs when we all know how much you can lose in a round at full power if you know you already won. The only fault I see to Norway team is that they did not played for the first place.

 

[WoenK]

@skam : Don't get me wrong, but Greece is also a small team and we tried to score till the very last moment. WE did not "slow down" just because we won a match.
It's already a joke, if a judge tells you that you have enough points to pass, that's favourism for me. It's like telling the other team "Hey you can forget it already, you got no chance anyway".

Ok, my emotions might be a bit heated right now, but definately feels like it's trying to get a score right the way it is supposed to be.

 

[Joser]

I think I may just take this competition a little too seriously for my own good, but I can't imagine Team USA not knowing how many points we need to post to go through to the next round.

That being said, I think the fairest solution given the circumstances is for both teams to pass through to the next round as BlackHawk stated. Only one of the two can pass through to the semifinals from there though (if either one does... not counting either out at this point). Good luck to both teams. I hope an amicable solution can be reached.

 

[Basilias]

wof stage 3 round 1
GREECE :200 vs Norway:65
England:238 vs Czech Republic:75


wof stage 3 round 2
England:328 vs GREECE:132
Norway 243 vs Czech Republic:111


wof stage 3 round 3
GREECE:182 vs Czech Republic:92
Norway:160 vs England:301


Final standings of the group:
England 867
Greece 514
Norway 468 (and not 472...another mistake!!!)
Czech Republic 283

 

[Skam]

@skam : Don't get me wrong, but Greece is also a small team and we tried to score till the very last moment. WE did not "slow down" just because we won a match.
It's already a joke, if a judge tells you that you have enough points to pass, that's favourism for me. It's like telling the other team "Hey you can forget it already, you got no chance anyway".

Im not quite sure what you mean?

Before the match, in our thread here on EF, we were told we needed 185 points if we wanted to go on to the next round. Hows that telling Czech they have no chance?

Whats the point of greece being a large team and how your tactics function? So we dont work the same way as you do, or have the same tactics -that doesnt make us less of a team, it just makes the blooper from the judges side so unfortunate.

You and your teammates want to go to the next round and I understand that.
Im pretty sure my teammates also want to go on to the next round.
I really hate if this would turn to a "we're more deserving then you" argument Hurri is trying to make a compromise, thats all.

 

[WoenK]

I think I may just take this competition a little too seriously for my own good, but I can't imagine Team USA not knowing how many points we need to post to go through to the next round.

That being said, I think the fairest solution given the circumstances is for both teams to pass through to the next round as BlackHawk stated. Only one of the two can pass through to the semifinals from there though (if either one does... not counting either out at this point). Good luck to both teams. I hope an amicable solution can be reached.

Knowing the greek mentality, I doubt that that will happen.
Team leader will decide, but if this "bending some rules as we go" goes through, I am quite sure which team will not be in WoF 2010.
And it is also not assuring for those that did not take part this year to maybe try next year.

 

[WoenK]

You and your teammates want to go to the next round and I understand that.
Im pretty sure my teammates also want to go on to the next round.
I really hate if this would turn to a "we're more deserving then you" argument Hurri is trying to make a compromise, thats all.

Wrong, you don't get the "greek" point of view.
We fought, we won and now that fought should be reconsidered?
Because of a misinformation?
Can not speak for the rest of the team, but the pride I obtained in Greece would say, "rather forfeit than give in to something that is not my believe".
We will see how the team will react when they wake up or come back from church, but somebody should put on some fireproof undies already.

 

[LeeYap]

I thought there was a Leadership Stucture and Judges to decide these kinds of things, why are you asking for a vote?

 

[Basilias]

Im not quite sure what you mean?

Before the match, in our thread here on EF, we were told we needed 185 points if we wanted to go on to the next round. Hows that telling Czech they have no chance?

Whats the point of greece being a large team and how your tactics function? So we dont work the same way as you do, or have the same tactics -that doesnt make us less of a team, it just makes the blooper from the judges side so unfortunate.

You and your teammates want to go to the next round and I understand that.
Im pretty sure my teammates also want to go on to the next round.
I really hate if this would turn to a "we're more deserving then you" argument Hurri is trying to make a compromise, thats all.

Skam pls try to understand that we dont have any problem with your team.
But u have to accept that u lost the chance to proceed to next round.
A Judge(in that case the man who organises the whole tournament)did a mistake with a simple plus calcalution.
It is ok with that mistakes are for humans but judges shouldnt be very carefull with such as simple calculations???
Ok he said to u that u have to reach 185 points to go in to the next round...but he did a mistake u had to reach 289 points....
So what???You count till to 185 points and then u turn off your pc???
Come on lets finish the jokes pls.
Greece has nothing to do with all that situation...pls leave us out off all of this as I have posted in this thread we beat Norway with a big difference in our game:GREECE :200 vs Norway:65
and in the final standings we r above 46 points...
England 867
Greece 514
Norway 468
Czech Republic 283

 

[Tsag]

As I see it this is a double fault.
Ok Hurri you did an error but we are all humans and we make errors, very good for you to come clear with it, but in practice its not your fault solely. From my eyes Norway should have made their math and correct you. I mean we had made our math and knew what Norway needed to pass and practically we had no problem at all if they managed to go through.

So in a nutshell, mistakes happen we live with them - not your fault but the fault of ill preparation.

Just my thoughs,
Nick

 

[LeeYap]

EU is becomeing so much like RL , People say " I have an idea lets all do this", whatever that maybe.

And then something happens which may make them unpopular with so and so.

they say: "Yes I mucked this up" Now lets all vote on it "! How shall we correct my muck up?

How about this instead... you mucked it up, now FIX IT and take the consequences, they may be good or they may be bad. But please dont send people off on a course, and then bail out and leave it to them when things go ary.

Suck it up and move on.

 

[Warpath]

what a terrible situation.

firstly i think that any animosity towards thejudges is miss placed and should stop. they are volunteers that judge match after match often in timezones different to their own so we can play. with the immense amount of scores and lack of sleep mistakes are inevitable.

secondly i really feel for norway but ithink that their score should stand as is. otherwise it may just set a precident for other teams to demand re matches or special treatment when mistakes occur in future rounds.

srry guys, but that's my opinion on the matter

 

[LeeYap]

what a terrible situation.

firstly i think that any animosity towards thejudges is miss placed and should stop. they are volunteers that judge match after match often in timezones different to their own so we can play. with the immense amount of scores and lack of sleep mistakes are inevitable.

secondly i really feel for norway but ithink that their score should stand as is. otherwise it may just set a precident for other teams to demand re matches or special treatment when mistakes occur in future rounds.

srry guys, but that's my opinion on the matter

Volunteers or not, they took the job for a reason, be it selfworth, prestige or any number of other reasons, including a selfless desire to help.

It shouldn't be up for a vote.

 

[BlackHawk]

Volunteers or not, they took the job for a reason, be it selfworth, prestige or any number of other reasons, including a selfless desire to help.

It shouldn't be up for a vote.

I did not voted in here. Or did I?

I also think that the common sense should be used and a decision should be taken by Hurry.

This thread is good because people know what will happen next.

Also, as a rule for future, it should be added that the score one team gets is final for whatever the reasons that may be. However, since this rule was implied but not stated, and Hury misinformed that team, then Norway should go in the next stage as I said in privious post. That ofcourse, is only my oppinion and it can be ignored.

But if something similar will happen in future, the rule is that your score is final and all should push as hard as they can to be safe.

 

[LeeYap]

I did not voted in here. Or did I?

I also think that the common sense should be used and a decision should be taken by Hurry.

This thread is good because people know what will happen next.

Also, as a rule for future, it should be added that the score one team gets is final for whatever the reasons that may be. However, since this rule was implied but not stated, and Hury misinformed that team, then Norway should go in the next stage as I said in privious post. That ofcourse, is only my oppinion and it can be ignored.

But if something similar will happen in future, the rule is that your score is final and all should push as hard as they can to be safe.

So what will happen NOW as you say, and what is the point of ths thread? tell me the outcome NOW

 

[SsteLiosS]

hi all

some questions
is it so hard to find how much is the difference of 2 teams?
does huricane have to inform how much you have to get?
i think that there is no fair and unfair
do what you believe as the boss of the wof
also i want to tell tha wof=world of firepower.....next time noone slowdown