Other rewards besides skills in the Codex

Legends

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Inherent Marxus Legends
Was just thinking 'what if I don't want any more skills?' Most of them are not profitable to sell anyway. What good is the Codex to me if I don't want my skills to increase any further? Yeah I could take skills like Botany that won't raise my hunting level beyond my Mayhem Category but that would just be wasting the reward really, so why should I care about the Codex?

I know some are going to say "Take the Alertness, Anatomy and Perception skills, those raise your Looter professions and you want that..." Yeah, Perception also raises my (Hit) professions, Anatomy also raises my (Dmg) professions and Alertness is only in one of the Reward sets...

Maybe instead of this:

1.25 PED Analysis
1.25 PED Animal Lore
1.25 PED Biology
1.25 PED Botany
1.25 PED Computer
1.25 PED Explosives
1.25 PED Heavy Weapons
1.25 PED Support Weapon Systems
1.25 PED Zoology

We could have a Reward list that looked something like this:

1.25 PED Analysis
1.25 PED Animal Lore
1.25 PED Biology
1.25 PED Botany
1.25 PED Computer
1.25 PED Explosives
1.25 PED Heavy Weapons
1.25 PED Support Weapon Systems
1.25 PED Zoology
Increased Critical Damage by 20% for 1 hour
Increased Critical Chance by 2% for 30 minutes
Increased Health Regeneration by 75% for 1 hour
Increased Health by 20% for 1 hour
Increased Health by 15 points for 1 hour
Increased Reload speed by 5% for 1 hour
Increased Run speed by 5% for 1 hour
20% skill boost for 1 hour

The buffs here are meant to be around half of the buffs on the 10mg pills.

The reason I added the skill boost even though it seems to contradict the whole argument for even adding the buffs, was in case someone wanted to skill up something else like mining or crafting, or beautician, even coloring...

The buff would start when you choose the reward so you can save it for the opportune time. Theoretically, a hunter could save a bunch of rewards for a hunting run he/she wants to do on a mob that is too big for him/her to hunt otherwise. So it's just a shortcut to get to that bigger mob sooner in that case, as opposed to the long grind required to actually raise the skills to that level.

Just a thought.

Legends

PS: of course there is a bigger problem here, which is that the Mayhem doesn't have prizes that seem to be proportionate to the cost of participating for the different categories (cost to participate in Cat 10 is not equal to the cost to participate in Cat 1, yet the winner gets 1 Placement token in either one). The other problem being that players are not in complete control of their skills, which only rise. Cost to reduce your skills is too high, which I think is the opposite of what was originally intended in the early beginnings of the game, and it's sad that MA still hasn't gotten around to doing something about this.
 
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I wonder if your trying to solve the wrong problem here.

The codex is supposed to solve the issues with team hunting, massive iron missions, be a more engaging and show progress in smaller steps, all these things are to keep people hunting and levelling and so the prizes are valid. I think it's too early to have it do more than that.

I think perhaps mayhem is at the point where it should be scrapped and have something else put in place, something that is more inclusive to other professions and more cost relative prize categories and more prizes in general, but lets not mix the two things together they should be kept separate IMO.
 
Codex mission rewards are rubbish. Those rewards to me are no incentive to grind.
Gimme back the attribute token rewards!
 
I hate codex and what it will do to the game. Some of us have been playing games over 40 years and have seen bad ideas happen over and over....this is one of them. Dilution of one of the key components of the game, skills, lacks foresight and creativity, especially considering the structure of mayhems.

If anything add attributes back, otherwise I WILL become bored of this game and leave in time if codex is the master plan. But these buffs are cool ideas... I know I certainly dont want skills as rewards 600k + is way too many anyhow.
 
I like Legends idea of instant buff, but I'd like to see the reward as 30min pills. Also needed is sorting stacking out. Right now it's bingo what stacks and what doesn't.

Attribute tokens would be nice too.

L26 reward could be an item used together with armor or gun in refiner (only L stuff!) to add crit/evade/hp buff. Or used as crafting ingredient to add buffs on L items when crafted.
 
hell just make em permanent buffs, not this limited time crap... but make it worth it... so like don't allow this until you get to the repeatable stage, and then only let avatar get the buff one time, so buff part would not be repeatable... or it could be a repeatable type mission but you'd only get to choose any one of the permabuffs once... then have to do the repeatable part 5 times before you get to choose second buff but when you there you could not choose the same buff you chose previously, etc.
 
When codex first arrived I pointed out how boring and pointless it would all feel as soon as the initial gloss wore off. Increasingly people are saying it is boring.. that we have lost the personal targets and kudos of the larger less frequent rewards.
A compromise would perhaps be codex similar to now with intermittent bonus points. for instance tokens for attributes at say every 10 levels or 20 levels of a particular mob
or perhaps a choice of attribute token or a buff token that can be used in various quantities for purchase of buffs, both (L) and (UL) could be offered for the appropriate number of tokens. I would however suggest that such buffs be player bound to prevent use of farming by bots
 
...Increasingly people are saying it is boring.. that we have lost the personal targets and kudos of the larger less frequent rewards.

This.

As the codex rewards are ALL THE SAME, it doesnt matter anymore what you hunt (in regards to mission rewards).
With the iron you could search the mission chain for the rewards that you liked.

I was after missions that rewarded Psyche tokens. So I searched and searched for all those missions.
That was part of the fun. Having a goal.

The codex missions are goalless, useless and all the same.
No more searching for stuff. no more personal goals.

we will all die of boredom.
 
I see mostly higher lvl players complaining here and I can somehow understand them. But for low- to mid-lvl players this gives the opportunity to continue progressing without having to go to the really big mobs right away.
Even noobs can progress as all mobs are in it.
 
I agree that there should be more than skills in reward choices.

But I'd go with items, like CDF weapons, for example.

Parts of armor, weapons, heal tools, or others (L) items that would have very good stats, and why not buffs.

Not at all stages for sure, but would be nice to see that, for example, at rank 10, 15, 21, 26.
Highest is the rank, better are the items.
 
As the codex rewards are ALL THE SAME, it doesnt matter anymore what you hunt (in regards to mission rewards).
With the iron you could search the mission chain for the rewards that you liked.

Why is this a bad thing, though? One of the things I like about it is that now I can go for skills that maybe previously were linked to a shit mob that I didn't want to grind.
 
Hazmat suit thing gives ua... ua as alternative to skills for each level could work.... also esi as alternative could work too...
 
Why is this a bad thing, though?

well, if you read my post you know why I find that's a bad thing.

One of the things I like about it is that now I can go for skills that maybe previously were linked to a shit mob that I didn't want to grind.

Sure now you can grind the same mob ENDLESSLY. Really cool.
For skill rewards. That don't mean shit anymore. Really cool.
Now it doesnt matter what you hunt anymore since it all rewards the same. Really exciting.

We'll all die of boredom now for sure!
 
Most Ubers will be asking for Attribute tokens and well, that's understandable because you get to a point where you just don't care about these other skills anymore, but the Attributes are hard, impossible even to raise...

I agree that there should be more than skills in reward choices.

But I'd go with items, like CDF weapons, for example.

Parts of armor, weapons, heal tools, or others (L) items that would have very good stats, and why not buffs.

The Daily Tokens is how you get the CDF weapons. If items are added to Codex I'm afraid other missions will lose their relevance. The Codex I think is intended to be a replacement strictly for Iron Missions.

Hazmat suit thing gives ua... ua as alternative to skills for each level could work.... also esi as alternative could work too...

I like the Universal Ammo idea, I did not think of that. Should be very easy for MA to give out Uni Ammo. The ESI might not be so easy, I think they are afraid to destroy the one thing that has been a reliable source of markup for hunters since the beginning of this game.

Requested Rewards so far:
- Buffs
- Attribute Tokens
- Items
- Uni Ammo
- ESI
...
 
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Sure now you can grind the same mob ENDLESSLY. Really cool.
For skill rewards. That don't mean shit anymore. Really cool.
Now it doesnt matter what you hunt anymore since it all rewards the same. Really exciting.

Sure, I understand where you're coming from, I was just providing a different perspective. I don't grind the same mob endlessly, I go for whatever is providing the best MU at the time (that fits with my gear), and now I can pick the skill rewards that I want from that as a bonus.

I understand why people think it's uninspired, because it is; but most development in this game is iterative, so I'm hoping that they will continue to improve the system for the peeps who aren't into it.
 
Most Ubers will be asking for Attribute tokens and well, that's understandable because you get to a point where you just don't care about these other skills anymore, but the Attributes are hard, impossible even to raise...

not just Ubers. Many mid levelers as well, including myself.
The difference between attributes and skills have stayed the same for me for 15 years.

Skills are meaningless since they can be bought. Highly skilled avatars can either mean they're extremely dedicated or just rich and having bought them all.
Attributes are a true measure of an entropian.
They're all EARNED!!
Either by natural improvement or by hunting for rewards. Either way, it takes commitment...unlike skills.

That's why I fancy attributes over skills ANY day!
 
As the codex rewards are ALL THE SAME,

Quick qustion if I may :)

When you say thay are all the same are you saying that the codex skill rewards are the same for every level?

ie, Level 3 has 0.3 peds of Rifle no matter what type of mob it is
And level 14 has 5.23 of Perception no matter what the mob?

And the mnakeup of the choices are the same for every mob / level?

ie, Level 3 has Rifle available, but no Preception - and Level 14 has Perception bu no Rifle - amongst the other options etc?

Is there a chart of what each level gets?

Sorry - 3 questions....
 
Quick qustion if I may :)

When you say thay are all the same are you saying that the codex skill rewards are the same for every level?

ie, Level 3 has 0.3 peds of Rifle no matter what type of mob it is
And level 14 has 5.23 of Perception no matter what the mob?

And the mnakeup of the choices are the same for every mob / level?

ie, Level 3 has Rifle available, but no Preception - and Level 14 has Perception bu no Rifle - amongst the other options etc?

Is there a chart of what each level gets?

Sorry - 3 questions....

No, they are the same skill sets for all mobs, i.e. :

Reserved for collating stuff...

Skill selections
These seems to be the "standard" ones - please report if you find any variations


Skill set 1 (Stages 1, 2, 6, 7, 11, 12, 16, 17, 21, 22)
Aim, Anatomy, Athletics, BLP Weaponry Technology, Combat Reflexes, Dexterity, Handgun, Heavy Melee Weapons, Laser Weaponry Technology, Light Melee Weapons, Longblades, Power Fist, Rifle, Shortblades, Weapons Handling

Skill set 2 (Stages 3, 4, 8, 9, 13, 14, 18, 19, 23, 24)
Clubs, Courage, Cryogenics, Diagnosis, Electrokinesis, Inflict Melee Damage, Inflict Ranged Damage, Melee Combat, Perception, Plasma Weaponry Technology, Pyrokinesis

Skill set 3 (Stages 5, 10, 15, 20, 25)
Alertness, Bioregenesis, Bravado, Concentration, Dodge, Evade, First Aid, Telepathy, Translocation, Vehicle Repairing

Skill set 4 (Stages 5, 15, 25 on some mobs)
Analysis, Animal Lore, Biology, Botany, Computer, Explosive Weaponry Technology, Heavy Weapons, Support Weapon Systems, Zoology

Google sheet with collated data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18qzG_7AaCoq9Yudo3YVbmT2fkOVjiBPn8TXvpQ5CZGE/edit?usp=sharing

All-stages calculator created by LavaSparks: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/128XGIG5eMPnTl0tF5R1fl6vYqQ6q_SeH5c1uAakHAlI/edit?usp=sharing

This thread by Oleg has pretty much all the info you could care to have about the Codex rewards.
 
The Daily Tokens is how you get the CDF weapons. If items are added to Codex I'm afraid other missions will lose their relevance. The Codex I think is intended to be a replacement strictly for Iron Missions.

I know that.
I was just using CDF as an example.

The CDFs are good because they have the same stats as their normal equivalents, but they require 5 levels less.

However I was thinking more about parts of armor for example, which could have very good stat, and a buff, and a very small TT.

Or a heal tool, or whatever items with very good stats, buff, but limited use.

And if they are tradable, it would be even better. :)
 
I know that.
I was just using CDF as an example.

The CDFs are good because they have the same stats as their normal equivalents, but they require 5 levels less.

However I was thinking more about parts of armor for example, which could have very good stat, and a buff, and a very small TT.

Or a heal tool, or whatever items with very good stats, buff, but limited use.

And if they are tradable, it would be even better. :)

Welll, kind of repeating myself I know but other missions are better for that sort of stuff. Codex is just a skilling booster, to give people hope that they have a chance to catch up although they are late to the party. My whole thought process about the buffs is that it acts as a sort of shortcut (as in: give me the ability to do that DPS right now as opposed to having to grind for weeks to get there), and gives the ubers something else they can take since they already have too much skill anyway.

I agree with more cool items, but I'd like those to be in mission NPCs. It has to have been earned deliberately, as opposed to by default. Similar to how you upgrade your armor or plates to adjusted, you don't just all of a sudden have a window pop up because you've now killed 50k mobs or something, no, it needs planning, foresight, time or money allocated and execution, then you get the item/result you sought out to obtain.

If you put all the items and everything in the Codex, now you make the hunting profession progression the same for everyone, and the game more generic. You might argue by saying "Not if there is a large number of options". Maybe, but we know what always happens, people come to this forum or ask other players "what's the best reward I should take?", and then you really just end up with the majority all taking the same path.

Just my opinion


Legends

PS: the other thing is that if everyone just gets all the items they need from the Codex, that's gonna hurt crafters and shops a lot, make them irrelevant even...
 
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Welll, kind of repeating myself I know but other missions are better for that sort of stuff. Codex is just a skilling booster, to give people hope that they have a chance to catch up although they are late to the party. My whole thought process about the buffs is that it acts as a sort of shortcut (as in: give me the ability to do that DPS right now as opposed to having to grind for weeks to get there), and gives the ubers something else they can take since they already have too much skill anyway.

It would be exactly the same whith an item.
If you have choice between actual skills reward OR an item, then you choose.

I agree with more cool items, but I'd like those to be in mission NPCs. It has to have been earned deliberately, as opposed to by default. Similar to how you upgrade your armor or plates to adjusted, you don't just all of a sudden have a window pop up because you've now killed 50k mobs or something, no, it needs planning, foresight, time or money allocated and execution, then you get the item/result you sought out to obtain.

Who talk about "by default" ?
Again it would be in "choices" skills OR item OR even buff, if you like buffs more.. :)

And if there is an item as a reward choice let say at stage 15 first, I think it seems like a pretty "deliberate" thing to do whith some work.

If you put all the items and everything in the Codex, now you make the hunting profession progression the same for everyone, and the game more generic. You might argue by saying "Not if there is a large number of options". Maybe, but we know what always happens, people come to this forum or ask other players "what's the best reward I should take?", and then you really just end up with the majority all taking the same path.

Again who talk about "put all items and everything in the codex" ? :rolleyes:

First if you have to kill 10K mob to get an item I don't see any problem to that.
Especially since it would be a (L) item with a very limited durability of use.

This is exactly what CDF items are already, and probably even easier since you have to do about 20 daily to get a nice weapon, that's pretty low amount of mob.
I don't even mention the daily bonus.. You can do 4, so kill 40 Gibnib and get a nice gun.. :)
And it don't hurt weapon market as far as I know.

Also even Longtooth iron at one stage was rewarding whith a (L) gun, I don't see any problem to that.
 
So, do you see any particular reason why it would be better to add these in the Codex as opposed to just adding items in other mission NPCs?

Cause I have the 3k Longtooth still un-finished that gives the Chikara (Ithink that's what it is), and I'm not excited about it or anything, but maybe it's just me, maybe there's something about these items that I don't know? I know they do last a little while though they have a low TT, and I can also sell it for a few PEDs if I don't wanna use it myself, so yeah, that's fine, just not sure why you insist on having them in Codex specifically.
 
So, do you see any particular reason why it would be better to add these in the Codex as opposed to just adding items in other mission NPCs?

Cause I have the 3k Longtooth still un-finished that gives the Chikara (Ithink that's what it is), and I'm not excited about it or anything, but maybe it's just me, maybe there's something about these items that I don't know? I know they do last a little while though they have a low TT, and I can also sell it for a few PEDs if I don't wanna use it myself, so yeah, that's fine, just not sure why you insist on having them in Codex specifically.

What other missions are you talking about ?

The codex will soon contain almost the only Hunt missions.
Since all Iron/Bronze/etc.. missions are about to disappear, and we can't activate new ones yet.
That's why.

And I don't think MA is planning to create new missions in addition to the codex.
Which would mean a double reward for some missions mob.


Also, if I had to choose between skills or the Chikara you're talking about, I would choose the skills as well...
Because I don't think this weapon is particularly excellent, or anything special.
But Longtooth stage rewards whith skills AND gun if I remember correctly.

And I didn't just talk about weapons only, but about items in general, so weapons/armor/heal/ and I think there are plenty more.

Or a heal tool, or whatever items with very good stats, buff, but limited use.

And if they are tradable, it would be even better. :)

The stats of these items and their effectiveness would of course be adjusted according to the mob and the rank of the mission.
 
What other missions are you talking about ?

The codex will soon contain almost the only Hunt missions.
Since all Iron/Bronze/etc.. missions are about to disappear, and we can't activate new ones yet.
That's why.

And I don't think MA is planning to create new missions in addition to the codex.
Which would mean a double reward for some missions mob.


Also, if I had to choose between skills or the Chikara you're talking about, I would choose the skills as well...
Because I don't think this weapon is particularly excellent, or anything special.
But Longtooth stage rewards whith skills AND gun if I remember correctly.

And I didn't just talk about weapons only, but about items in general, so weapons/armor/heal/ and I think there are plenty more.

The stats of these items and their effectiveness would of course be adjusted according to the mob and the rank of the mission.

A very good example of what I'm talking about is the NPC at Fort Sisyphus that gives you the CDF armor pieces. You are required to kill robots, 40, 50, 60 or whatever, then you come back and choose the part of CDF armor you want as your reward.

That mission still works, I just recently did a few stages of it. Another example is the 3 NPCs (at the Research outpost, part of Odysseus landing chain) that require you to go mine, hunt and find stuff for them, then they give you a reward for completing the task requested (haven't done it so not sure what the rewards are).

I'm pretty sure MA is not planning on removing these, they are still relevant and if anything, they will probably add more of them. Codex just replaces the whole Iron mission system which was a system devised to award bonus skills for grinding.
 
A very good example of what I'm talking about is the NPC at Fort Sisyphus that gives you the CDF armor pieces. You are required to kill robots, 40, 50, 60 or whatever, then you come back and choose the part of CDF armor you want as your reward.

This is actually a very bad example, since these are kind of introductory missions, which are there to help newbies get started.
Also most mob you have to kill to get Scout Armor are Puny..

Another example is the 3 NPCs (at the Research outpost, part of Odysseus landing chain) that require you to go mine, hunt and find stuff for them, then they give you a reward for completing the task requested (haven't done it so not sure what the rewards are).

This is a bad example too, since rewards are combat tokens.

I'm pretty sure MA is not planning on removing these, they are still relevant and if anything, they will probably add more of them. Codex just replaces the whole Iron mission system which was a system devised to award bonus skills for grinding.

No, I highly doubt that, as I don't see what would be the point.
And again, it would be a double reward for some of the mobs, since ALL the mobs will already be in the codex.

I can't understand why the idea of a few items as Codex reward would bother you so much. :confused:
 
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lol and I'm just trying to find out why you insist so much that these have to be in the Codex!

The examples I provided were meant to just show you the TYPE of mission I'm talking about. This TYPE of mission can and should exist, not just for noobs, but for players of all levels.

So what if there's double rewards? What's the problem with that? :scratch2:

MindArk is always saying that 'knowledge of the universe is key in the pursuit of better returns' (not an exact quote, just para-phrasing), so if you take the time and do your research, you can find out about all these double rewards and take advantage of them. Afaik, double rewards have existed in the game for a long time, this wouldn't be anything new, good example being Iron and Dailys.
 
lol and I'm just trying to find out why you insist so much that these have to be in the Codex!

I already answered to that.
But it seems like you don't want to understand.. :rolleyes:

I currently have 719 completed missions for Calypso alone, so I know a little bit what I'm talking about..

Seems like the idea of an item as a reward is bothering you.
Do you fear for it to impact your business ?

The general idea of these items is that they would be extremely effective, but in relation to that, would have a very limited amount of use.

For example, being able to choose, as a reward, a buffed Shadow (L) with a total TT of 10PED (so an average of 2PED per part), at stage 25 of a mission on a pretty big mob, would make it quite rare and hard to obtain, so that one would choose carefully where, when and how to use it.

It wouldn't impact your (or any) armor business at all, and it would benefit the game in general in many ways.

A very effective (L) heal tool whith only 500/1000 uses wouldn't impact healer's business too.

This are just examples.
I would let MA do the maths for stats, amount of uses, TT, etc.. They would do it better than me.
 
It would be nice to have missions like "Reach rank 12 in the Codex for mob XY to get these attribute tokens." I could live with that after they took away our only means of getting attribute tokens.
 
I already answered to that.
But it seems like you don't want to understand.. :rolleyes:

I currently have 719 completed missions for Calypso alone, so I know a little bit what I'm talking about..

Seems like the idea of an item as a reward is bothering you.
Do you fear for it to impact your business ?

I don't understand why you always have to make this personal and take shots at the other person with facetious (sometimes hurtful) remarks. I think that's detrimental to any constructive dialogue and only opens the door to a battle of egos.

You did the same thing in a recent thread about PvP and the one called 'Expectation' where we had a heated debate.

I'm not interested in a battle of egos about who knows more and who is right and who is wrong, I was just trying to think out of the box is all and offer up something that should be doable and should also fit with the long-term vision or long-term plan that MindArk has for this Codex system.

I don't think that items as rewards in the Codex actually 'fits' with what MindArk has in mind for the Codex, I didn't think that when I wrote the thread, and you haven't managed to convince me either. Make all the assumptions you want as to the reason, doesn't really bother me, cause I know what the real reason is, I just think that's not what the Codex was intended to be for. But other missions that can be done in parallel with and in addition to the Codex, sure. Items as rewards won't hurt my business at all cause it's built on knowledge and time and not reliant on a fixed markup for specific things.

Cheers o/

Legends
 
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