Question: PEAuction - No longer being updated ?

[THANATOS]

Fine. Not sure at all how you correlate the responses here to anything to do with updating the site. Please tell me what question you saw as perfectly reasonable. Here is what I see/saw:

Someone noticed that the auction data had stopped updating. They then pretend to be a party to the understanding of the conditions it was transfered. Why they even include this irrelevant fact , who knows. They then go on to saying that this affects some other sites. Then they ask if anyone can shed some light on this. So they assume this had to do with the transfer, they make unwarranted aspirations on the intent and instead of asking the people who could most directly answer feel the need to make a public post. This was/is not a polite way to do it.


Had they posted/reported that the site had an issue, my response would have been a simple thank you and also asking them to report it more directly.

Next post alludes to it being all messed up, says R.I.P. and yet gives no specifics anything could be looked into from.

Then it is said it would be helpful to know when to expect fresh data to be recorded.

I then respond back with information.... where I do try to 'shed some light' and say it would be helpful if they reported things directly. How is that impolite or unreasonable?

Now, the response I got to this was basically, I can't be bothered and you should do more.




As for 'following procedures' they are not aware of, is it not common sense that the best way to get something fixed is to contact people that are able to fix? I simple was saying this common sense fact, that if someone wants an issue resolved more quickly, the best way is to make sure we know about it. The best way to do that is to contact us more directly on the site. How is this a bad attitude? First reply was an attempt to encourage them to do just that. They reply I got back indicated this was not going to work. Your replies indicate that this is not worth the effort as well.

As for politeness, I am polite to those who are polite to me, and have been polite to all but a couple of people in game and on the forums. This thread though was not a polite way to report the issue.


I still stand by what I said after reviewing things.

Then I think maybe I misinterpreted your responces to be harsher than they were intended. However, given I was not the only one to do so, maybe you might want to monitor how you respond to your customers in the future... maybe you dont, but then I wish you good luck with the site either way.

 

[Serica]

Responding to this as it seems you posted about the same time as I did this morning...

Someone noticed that the auction data had stopped updating. They then pretend to be a party to the understanding of the conditions it was transfered. Why they even include this irrelevant fact , who knows.

Because, although I did a search here, and found a post by smoothee saying the site had been sold, there was nothing I could find to indicate when the transfer of ownership would take place - ie who the 'responsible party' was to report things to RIGHT NOW.

They then go on to saying that this affects some other sites.

That's because I only found out about the issue because I was using one of those 'other sites' that relies on PEAuction for data. Personally I just think this highlights the importance of the PEAuction data to the greater community - not just those who use the site directly.

Then they ask if anyone can shed some light on this.

Well, I hoped someone else here might know, cos I sure didnt. (I dont do mindreading. )

So they assume this had to do with the transfer, they make unwarranted aspirations on the intent ...

No, I said that it was possible it was something to do with the transition between. That was in response to someone suggesting that site might have died.

For all I or anyone who was not personally involved might have been aware, there may have been (for example) delays in the financial arrangements, or need to stop data collection between the move to a different server, ... or any number of other technical reasons why data collection might have stopped for a few days.

I made no judgement one way or another, nor did I cast any aspersions on your intentions.

... instead of asking the people who could most directly answer feel the need to make a public post. This was/is not a polite way to do it.

Now I wonder if we come to the reason you're so defensive, and attack me for posting here on EF.

Could it be that you're angry (and maybe a little embarrassed) that someone noticed that the site wasnt working as it should, and said so publicly, rather than sending you a private message on your own site where noone but you would know about it ?

If so, suck it up and get over it.

Maybe you could even respond next time (and there's always a next time ) with a 'thanks for noticing, I'll check it out and get back to you' instead of flaming the OP.

....

Try to look at it this way ... now there's probably a lot more people who realise that MA have made changes to the Expiring Auctions page, and can make representations to MA about it.

Perhaps you could even start a petition/poll here on EF:

• show us what it used to look like, compared to what it has now,
  (dunno about anyone else, but I cant recall exactly )
• explain what's changed,
• how that affects PEAuction data collection
• why that's a bad thing,
• and ask for statements of support by users

- and so be able to show MA how much the community appreciates/wants/needs the Expiring Auctions page to continue to include the opening bid price on no-bid auctions.
(yep i've read this, but it's not exactly a call to action, is it ?)

 

[Rotrap]

Perhaps I should point out here, that the only reason I looked into the data on PEAuction was that I use Entropedia to record my skills, and noticed the skill prices hadn't changed for several days.

That could have been caused by several things, either on Entropedia or as it happened, on PEAuction itself, and I wanted to be sure who should be informed.

Not at all what you say in your OP.

Frankly, I was quite surprised that I was the first (and apparently only) person who noticed there was any problem with the data being recorded at all.

Yep, or at least the first known to notice.

It only took 2hrs for you to respond to this thread, and could have been even less if someone happened to have you on FL ingame, and pm'd you there after seeing the thread.

So, posting here was probably at least as timely as registering on PEAuction, and then sending you a pm there ... after which, I'd probably never check that forum again. (You only have to compare the longevity and activity on my OP to see I dont spend a lot of time posting stuff on forums)

This sounds very Machiavellian to me. Had had no one pointed out the thread it would in all likely hood still be broken. If they had done so about five minutes later then they did it would have taken at least another day before it would have been looked into. From the way this is written you still seem to think you did things the right way since it had quick results.

 

[Rotrap]

Then I think maybe I misinterpreted your responces to be harsher than they were intended. However, given I was not the only one to do so, maybe you might want to monitor how you respond to your customers in the future... maybe you dont, but then I wish you good luck with the site either way.

No, after that then the replies where harsh as you say. After the reply to that was basically, I can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes to do so, and you instead should do more work to make sure you always see things here.

If you had read my other posts you would know that customers are not a factor here.

 

[Rotrap]

Responding to this as it seems you posted about the same time as I did this morning...



Because, although I did a search here, and found a post by smoothee saying the site had been sold, there was nothing I could find to indicate when the transfer of ownership would take place - ie who the 'responsible party' was to report things to RIGHT NOW.

So, by reporting it on the site itself, you would have no need to know who had that role. It could change at any time, it could be differerent people on shifts, it is is an advantage to not have to know in most cases.

That's because I only found out about the issue because I was using one of those 'other sites' that relies on PEAuction for data. Personally I just think this highlights the importance of the PEAuction data to the greater community - not just those who use the site directly.

Oh, I agree, but it still does not put the resposibilty on me to monitor all ef releated sites on the off chance someone may make a general post about it.

Well, I hoped someone else here might know, cos I sure didnt. (I dont do mindreading. )

Ditto

No, I said that it was possible it was something to do with the tansition between. That was in response to someone suggesting that site might have died.

Yes, you did in your second post. Also that is would be helpful if you were informed when it could be expected to work again.

For all I or anyone who was not personally involved might have been aware, there may have been (for example) delays in the financial arrangements, or need to stop data collection between the move to a different server, ... or any number of other technical reasons why data collection might have stopped for a few days.

The beuaty of reporting it on the site itself, is you also don't need to know, or try and figure it out.

I made no judgement one way or another, nor did I cast any aspersions on your intentions.

You said you 'understood the it would be continued to be maintained'. Which implies that it would not be, and that some obligations made in the transfer were not being met.

Now I wonder if we come to the reason you're so defensive, and attack me for posting here on EF.

Could it be that you're angry (and maybe a little embarrassed) that someone noticed that the site wasnt working as it should, and said so publicly, rather than sending you a private message on your own site where noone but you would know about it ?

If so, suck it up and get over it.

Nope, are you really going to pretend to be that dense? You still have no clue why I responded as I did? If that was the case I would be wanting to let the thread die and bury itself asap. I noticed last time MA changed up things, the site was down for over a month... so fixing it in a few hours , while learning someone elses code, what is to be embarrassed about. I kept a close watch on the site the first week. This week I have been playing another game and not EU while waiting for the quests so had no need to check prices. I was a bit suprised the site itself did not 'notice' and notify me, though if MA again changes up the feed it now shoudl at least for that.

Maybe you could even respond next time (and there's always a next time ) with a 'thanks for noticing, I'll check it out and get back to you' instead of flaming the OP.

If you had read through my repsonses fully, I had said I was glad at least that it did wind up getting the issue known. Where I changed tone, was when I suggested that next time it would probably be best to report it directly to the site. The reply basically said that was too much trouble for you, and instead I should monitor stuff here.

....

Try to look at it this way ... now there's probably a lot more people who realise that MA have made changes to the Expiring Auctions page, and can make representations to MA about it.

Perhaps you could even start a petition/poll here on EF:

• show us what it used to look like, compared to what it has now,
  (dunno about anyone else, but I cant recall exactly )
• explain what's changed,
• how that affects PEAuction data collection
• why that's a bad thing,
• and ask for statements of support by users

- and so be able to show MA how much the community appreciates/wants/needs the Expiring Auctions page to continue to include the opening bid price on no-bid auctions.
(yep i've read this, but it's not exactly a call to action, is it ?)

[/quote]

Thats another interesting thing, no one really seemed to notice the MA changes...actually I put a call to action in an earlier part of this thread. Dr.DC said he was contacting someone as well, and I contacted MA support.

I doubt I would get much of a response to any call to action here, unless I managed to get a well known community member to go to bat on it.

 

[jdegre]

i think i can add my 2 pecs here, since i'm running a site which is quite similar to peauction, in the sense taht it is not a paid service; it is a best-effort initiative, in which the (minimal) income comes from donations, advertisement, etc... as Rotrap points out this usually doesn't cover even the hosting fees, and by no means, makes up for the development effort (hours spent coding, debugging, etc..)

i've got reports of errors via every conceivable channel: PMs here, posts in the chipping tool's own threads, new threads created on purpose, PMs/chat ingame, PMs in other forum, via personal email... i think i'm only missing getting phone calls... lol

the point is that i really don't care how, or how fast errors are reported. this is a "best-effort" community service, and people should know that, the faster errors are reported, the faster they get fixed. as simple as that.

if someone opens a thread in EF pointing out to errors in my site, and i'm not directly told about it, well, the errors might be there for months. it's your own choice.

 

[Mulga]

i've got reports of errors via every conceivable channel: PMs here, posts in the chipping tool's own threads, new threads created on purpose, PMs/chat ingame, PMs in other forum, via personal email... i think i'm only missing getting phone calls... lol

the point is that i really don't care how, or how fast errors are reported. this is a "best-effort" community service, and people should know that, the faster errors are reported, the faster they get fixed. as simple as that.

Something you might want to take note of, Rotrap

2 pages of "I said, you said", and what we have is that MA changed something. A simple "Thanks, I'll look into it, please register on the site to get my attention quicker" would have been sufficient to get the ball rolling and keep everyone on side.

Try not to be so thin-skinned in the future mate.

 

[Rotrap]

Something you might want to take note of, Rotrap

2 pages of "I said, you said", and what we have is that MA changed something. A simple "Thanks, I'll look into it, please register on the site to get my attention quicker" would have been sufficient to get the ball rolling and keep everyone on side.

Try not to be so thin-skinned in the future mate.

Seems yet another person misses the point completly... ah well..

I started with that type of response, it was not till later responses I had to try and make the point in stronger terms....
and if I don't stay thick skinned, I would have given up trying to explain it way before this, however at this point I would be better off being thin skined I think.

 

[Mulga]

No, I'm pretty sure nothing was missed.

I certainly didn't miss your condescending attitude.

You seem to want to be informed, yet failed to inform us, which would have gotten the issue corrected much more quickly.

If someone cares enough about it, I imagine they won't find it too hard to register. If they don't they probably don't really care that much I guess.

Nope, are you really going to pretend to be that dense? You still have no clue why I responded as I did?

One thing about customer (futue? possible?) service, you treat the customers politely and with respect. Then when they have gone, you can say what you like.

So once again, a simple "Thanks, I'll look into it etc" would have sufficed. You hit enter after typing this, then tell your cat how useless such people are to you, as they cost money by visiting your site.

The viewers of the web site are not my customers. I view the site as a community site.... and as such giving good feedback and bug reports is the 'price' of the site. Most visitors just cost a little cpu power and bandwidth, effectively nothing, and also give pretty much nothing

Take it as you wll, but visitors to the site like that, cost more then they are worth for a free site. So I can not only afford to lose them, I am better off without them.

I may have quoted you a little out of context in some of these, but your attitude shines through.

Please come down off your high horse. You may find some future customers/helpers from EF, so it's in your interest to treat people with respect.

 

[Rotrap]

No, I'm pretty sure nothing was missed.

One thing about customer (futue? possible?) service, you treat the customers politely and with respect. Then when they have gone, you can say what you like.

So once again, a simple "Thanks, I'll look into it etc" would have sufficed. You hit enter after typing this, then tell your cat how useless such people are to you, as they cost money by visiting your site.

And I am 100% sure a lot was missed, shall I try to spell it out yet again?

I may have quoted you a little out of context in some of these, but your attitude shines through.

Please come down off your high horse. You may find some future customers/helpers from EF, so it's in your interest to treat people with respect.

Just the fact that you use the word customers means you missed the main points.

 

[Rotrap]

One more try....

The latest data I can see on PEAuction is nearly a week old now (Feb 9).

I noticed Smoothee sold the site to Rotrap, but understood it would continue to be maintained.

Several other sites (Entropedia, Chipping Optimiser, Bobthebuilder etc) rely on PEAuction for pricing data, and this tends to make their information less reliable also.

Can anyone shed some light on what is now happening with PEAuction ?

This is not really a bug report, but asking for information and seeming to claim a requirement for maintenance.

Seems that data dies @ February 09th 2010

R.I.P

Geez, kinda nice site and all, and seems to be messed up...

Again, zero in the way of a helpful bug report, just a off handed RIP.

It's possible its just a technical hiccup, with transfer of servers etc, but it would be helpful if we knew when to expect fresh data to be recorded.

Here is the asking for news when it will be back up, as if we were somehow supposed to supply that even before anyone reported an issue.

Need more details then 'seems to be messed up' to look into anything.




It was transfed at the start of the month and seemed to be working fine at the time.

It would be helpful if people report glitches on the forums over there. I would not have known to look into anything till VanBuren alerted me to this thread. You seem to want to be informed, yet failed to inform us, which would have gotten the issue corrected much more quickly.



Yeah, looks to be a change on the MA end. Also all errors are set to goto /dev/nul it seems. Adding to todo list, more robust error checking to this part of site.

Here is an attempt to say what is going on, and the problem was even identified at this my first post. So work was already under way to fix it. I also suggested a better way to make sure we knew faster. If that is a bad attitude I will stick with having one, over the attitude that things should be fixed solely by one sides effort on a community site.

I'm not registered on the forum there, I am registered here.

I figured SOMEONE here would have a way to contact you, if you failed to see this thread yourself.
(And my thanks to VanBuren for doing so)

Til now, Smoothee maintained a thread here on EF for reporting of issues concerning PEAuction, however naturally that thread is now closed.

You may wish to create and monitor your own thread here, as most other people who own EU info sites seem to do.

Now I am basically told, no, I am too lazy to spend five minutes to do that. I want to be able to throw it out to the wind and you should have to find it. In fact you should work harder to find it next time.

If someone cares enough about it, I imagine they won't find it too hard to register. If they don't they probably don't really care that much I guess.

So, I reply with the statement that if someone does not care enough to report it, they don't care enough to expect a timely fix. This is the statement that things then went off on based on peoples different world views. This to me and most involved in FOS projects is an expected and standard reply to someone that has said they are not willing to put in their part of the effort.

At least you posted in addition to the rep comments, unlike most people giving rep comments so far.

The jist of your comment, is that this is bad customer support. I think this is the root of the differing viewpoints. The viewers of the web site are not my customers. I view the site as a community site.... and as such giving good feedback and bug reports is the 'price' of the site. Most visitors just cost a little cpu power and bandwidth, effectively nothing, and also give pretty much nothing. Thats fine. A few give very good feedback and help, these are what make running community sites worthwhile. They are gold. That is the 'pay' so to speak. Then you have a few that think you owe them something for visiting a free site, and cost a lot more time then they are worth really.

Here we have someone in effect report an issue caused by a change by MA. (Which MA who we do pay, did not document in their release notes, and did in a way that is bugged, in a way that seems to think they have an understanding the agreements between Smoothie and I and seems to be complains that they have not gotten updates on the status of the site... yet they can not even be bothered to spend five minutes to join the site?

So.. yeah, I don't care about the viewers of the site that feel a sense of entitlement only.

I actually am glad for the report, and despite being on my way out the door for a holiday dinner, did get it fixed within a few hours of being referred to this thread. So, I do care about the site.

I also do like Serica from the conversation I have had with her. I am glad this did let the data feed get fixed. This is probably a result of different world views, but after many years of working on FOS, I have learned to be defensive very quickly of people that are not willing to meet you a tiny part of the way.

Here I do say I am glad for the report, and write it off to different world views and not bad intentions..... however the fact that many do not even seem to have read or acknowledged or understood that and still use false terms for the situation like customer, show me clearly they are either missing something still, or not able to grasp the other world view for community projects.

Responding to this as it seems you posted about the same time as I did this morning...



Because, although I did a search here, and found a post by smoothee saying the site had been sold, there was nothing I could find to indicate when the transfer of ownership would take place - ie who the 'responsible party' was to report things to RIGHT NOW.



That's because I only found out about the issue because I was using one of those 'other sites' that relies on PEAuction for data. Personally I just think this highlights the importance of the PEAuction data to the greater community - not just those who use the site directly.



Well, I hoped someone else here might know, cos I sure didnt. (I dont do mindreading. )



No, I said that it was possible it was something to do with the transition between. That was in response to someone suggesting that site might have died.

For all I or anyone who was not personally involved might have been aware, there may have been (for example) delays in the financial arrangements, or need to stop data collection between the move to a different server, ... or any number of other technical reasons why data collection might have stopped for a few days.

I made no judgement one way or another, nor did I cast any aspersions on your intentions.



Now I wonder if we come to the reason you're so defensive, and attack me for posting here on EF.

Could it be that you're angry (and maybe a little embarrassed) that someone noticed that the site wasnt working as it should, and said so publicly, rather than sending you a private message on your own site where noone but you would know about it ?

If so, suck it up and get over it.

Maybe you could even respond next time (and there's always a next time ) with a 'thanks for noticing, I'll check it out and get back to you' instead of flaming the OP.

....

Try to look at it this way ... now there's probably a lot more people who realise that MA have made changes to the Expiring Auctions page, and can make representations to MA about it.

Perhaps you could even start a petition/poll here on EF:

• show us what it used to look like, compared to what it has now,
  (dunno about anyone else, but I cant recall exactly )
• explain what's changed,
• how that affects PEAuction data collection
• why that's a bad thing,
• and ask for statements of support by users

- and so be able to show MA how much the community appreciates/wants/needs the Expiring Auctions page to continue to include the opening bid price on no-bid auctions.
(yep i've read this, but it's not exactly a call to action, is it ?)

More nonsense that seems to once again want to task me for doing free work in the FOS world the proper response here would have been to offer to take on this task not delegate more work.


At the point where my suggestion how to get an issue like this resolved was flat out rejected as being too much effort for them, my response that if they dont' care , they should not expect results fit, and should have been the end of it, as it was the acknowledgement that I can't force them to help us fix things more quickly in the future. That fact this simple statement has made others feel fit to think that is not the proper solution is when I then.

Now people like you, that did not want to let it lie by bringing it back up a few days after jdegre made his post, that tried to also reconcile the world views. That then post in a way that completely misses the fact that the advice they now give, was what I was posting in my first reply, when I was answering some of the question and suggestion how to get it fixed more quickly next time. Just what point and value did/do your posts add?

 

[Mulga]

Ok fine. You are obviously a mighty IT warrior in your FOS world, and everyone else is simply a leech on your time/resources.

Just to be clear, I spent the weekend with Serica (not like that, you perverts!! It was a RL meetup). She didn't mention this, nor in soc chat, I stumbled across the thread. She's probably hoping I shutup, but unfortunately I can't stand uppity smartasses.

Hopefully, you will never need any community help in the future. Help from someone like Serica, who spends alot of time ingame, and keeps detailed spreadsheets that would shame a firm of Chartered Accountants.

Some people donate cash to keep Community sites like PEAuction up and running. I've donated to Jdegre before, and again just recently as I appreciate his efforts, and admire the manner in which he conducts himself.

With your current attitude, I wouldn't give you the steam off my shit.

 

[Rotrap]

Ok fine. You are obviously a mighty IT warrior in your FOS world, and everyone else is simply a leech on your time/resources.

Not everyone just people like you. I am not an IT person, more a systems person. Too bad you can not even grasp it being a case of world view difference and instead seem to like to remain in your ignorance.

Just to be clear, I spent the weekend with Serica (not like that, you perverts!! It was a RL meetup). She didn't mention this, nor in soc chat, I stumbled across the thread. She's probably hoping I shutup, but unfortunately I can't stand uppity smartasses.

Hope you don't look in the mirror much then... as you had no other reason to join into this thead then to try and be an uppity smartass.

Hopefully, you will never need any community help in the future. Help from someone like Serica, who spends alot of time ingame, and keeps detailed spreadsheets that would shame a firm of Chartered Accountants.

Hopefully, especially if they think this is a help.

Some people donate cash to keep Community sites like PEAuction up and running. I've donated to Jdegre before, and again just recently as I appreciate his efforts, and admire the manner in which he conducts himself.

With your current attitude, I wouldn't give you the steam off my shit.

Good... though that proves you do have the ass part down the best of being an attempted smartass... keep your dung to yourself, and everything else to yourself. Like I said above, we are better off that way.

If you truly admired jdegre you would have left his post trying to bridge the world views and make peace lie and kept even this shit to yourself.

 

[Derid]

So, Who is up for a big group hug??



Anyone??

Cmon!!!

*cuts the tension with his loving presence*

 

[Rayne Jade]

Seems the original issue is resolved and from what I can see the site is up and functioning properly.

The rest can be handled via PM