Perspective of a month old noob

[Fizzgig]

Welcome, have a seat while I tell you of my magical month long journey through Planet Calypso!

It all started when I read a Yahoo! article about Neverdie and his interstellar night club, and how he made a million dollars off of it. That sounded pretty cool. So I looked the game up and gave it a download.

At that point in time I thought the game was pretty new, maybe 1-2 years old (which might explain why I had never heard of it). But no, I found out later that it was over 5 years old which was pretty shocking. But anyway back to the download. I had figured that a lot of new players were downloading the game because there was a notice on the website that they were having issues with users downloading patches. Okay no problem, new game, new press, lots of new users (so I thought) and so I waited, starting up the launcher a few times a day to see if it worked, never did. A week passed before I decided to look into this further. I manually downloaded the patches and applied them in order to finally get the game to work. Then I remember a few days after that a new patch came up and the loader wouldn't automatically load it, AND trying to go to the website to download it wouldn't work either until I did some tricky stuff to get it to work. As a computer science major I know my way around a pc but I strongly feel that less knowledgeable users would have quit when the loader did not work.

So MindArk, making it as difficult as possible to simply log into the game as a new player is probably not the best business model... but I digress.

Hooray! A week has passed and I am now in the game! Hmm interesting, everyone is white, oh well I'm not bothered, I don't care about graphics much at all when it comes to games, I want content. A week later I find out that it is because my graphics are on safe mode, which was kinda funny. The Entropia world really is beautiful when the settings are up.

A few times I have traveled the world and I'm really amazed with it's beauty and scope, MindArk has done a great job with it I think. Well, that is until I read a post about a landowner who invested heavily in flat land which was sent in upheaval after the v10 update.

For the last month I have been sweating, exploring (a bit), and absorbing as much information about this game as I can. After a month my account is worth about 220 PED (approx. 45k sweat gathered).

So here's what I'm trying to get at: If I deposit it will be for an amount necessary to buy something I deem is a worthy investment, which I would estimate to be $15,000-30,000. However, a number of things concern me which is why I most likely will never invest in this game, some of those include:

1. MindArk placing graphics above game play in the following areas:
a. Changing landscape which affected the value of investors negatively.
b. Disabling the use of Hangars (I don't care what kind of compensation program is going to happen, that is just unprofessional).
c. Disabling taming and mindforce.
2. Instantiating "banks" which are little more than pawnshops.
3. Never following through with the stock market. Which leads to (4).
4. Keeping the scope of the game very narrow. For this game to truly be a virtual universe Calypso needs more than hunting, mining, and a few professions. I'm sure you guys at MindArk have some great ideas but invest in some talent and pump out some updates which fix some very basic issues fast.
5. Put a cap on deposit and withdraw fees. I can understand squeezing the nickles and dimes out of regular depositors, but I'm not going to deposit 20k in a game with the above mentioned issues only to get 19k back on the initial investment when I cash out.

Maybe you want to cater to the more casual player who deposits $20-100 on ammo and blows it all hoping for an uber hof, which is fine, I can certainly understand that. However, if you want large investors (which I'm sure you do), you guys really gotta get your stuff together!

I'll be casually sweating until I feel like this is game is a reasonable place to put some cash.

Peace, John Marshall Raleigh.

 

[mastermesh]

So here's what I'm trying to get at: If I deposit it will be for an amount necessary to buy something I deem is a worthy investment, which I would estimate to be $15,000-30,000. However, a number of things concern me which is why I most likely will never invest in this game, some of those include:

If you've only been playing a month, that's a heck of a lot of cash to put in. My advice would be to think smaller for a while before you do something like that. Stick around the forums and learn more. Study other aspects of the various professions. There is a high learning curve. Why not try 15-30k ped before doing 15-30k usd. That's a heck of a lot of money, especially if you consider how much the banks will take before it ever gets on your pedcard.

 

[Cea]

Well written, You're making some interesting points there.

To invest seriously in this, I too would like some more guarantees of the longevity of the LA / mall / whatnot. They seem to think they are free to change anything in the name of upgrading the game.

Would you buy real estare IRL if there is a risk they will resesign the landscape after a month?

So it's small scale mining for now... While hoping they will learn how to attract and take care of investors.

 

[Svenn]

4. Keeping the scope of the game very narrow. For this game to truly be a virtual universe Calypso needs more than hunting, mining, and a few professions. I'm sure you guys at MindArk have some great ideas but invest in some talent and pump out some updates which fix some very basic issues fast.

I was kind of with you until here... what do you expect them to do as far as scope goes? This game has a larger scope than almost any game on the market. Not to mention with planets coming it's going to be pretty ridiculous...

 

[Cea]

I have a partial answer: no MMO is a proper MMO without ... fishing!

 

[billairboy]

In my opinion the fee on withdrawals should not be to low. People investing money in the game is of course good, but at the same time i don't like investors who just invest to earn money and take them out from the game. The fee should be high enough to make players think twice before takeing the money out of the game and to encourge them to keep the money in the EU world.

 

[Fizzgig]

... what do you expect them to do as far as scope goes?

As Cea said, fishing would be cool. What I had in mind were things avatars could do to socialize. By the way I think foraging for dung/fruits/stones is a great idea and I like how they did it, and sweating is brilliant, more stuff like that.

1. Games with ranking systems that could be played in cities, like chess.
2. Camera blueprints - Avatars could build cameras, use them to take pictures and trade them, frame and hang them, hook them up to battery chargers etc.
3. Jewelry (profession).
4. Carpentry (not sure how buying furniture works, but carpenters could build their own). Logging, go chop down some trees, then haul them!
5. Food. Keep food and water on you to keep your stats maxed, starvation lowers stats based on a percentage, rare foods increase your stats based on a percentage.
6. Gardening (good incentive to own property and pay rent on it).
7. Gardening and Taming could have a breeding sub-profession, whereby risks could be taken to increase rewards.
8. Fall damage and underwater suffocation, then put a few more item spawns in the sea or on mountains.

I'm sure there are many more things that could be added to make the world feel more immersive, but that's what I came up with in a few minutes (but most of it is stuff I had been thinking the game needed for a while now).

I realize most of it would take an unbelievable amount of work to implement, but this game took an unbelievable amount of work to create. Entropia it's an amazing game, and it deserves more, imo.

 

[Trina Xenophage]

Its hard enough to get skills past a certain level and you want them to implement something that takes them away?

Im pretty sure I would not be the only one wanting / willing to put foot to ass for that one.

Breathe every other breath for 15 minutes and your head will clear THEN come back with more rational thoughts.

 

[Wed]

Its hard enough to get skills past a certain level and you want them to implement something that takes them away?

Im pretty sure I would not be the only one wanting / willing to put foot to ass for that one.

Breathe every other breath for 15 minutes and your head will clear THEN come back with more rational thoughts.

Have to agree with Trina.

You say you dont want to invest big becouse u dont trust that MA wont change things so it have a negative affect on your investment. Then u turn around and tells us u want them to nerf skills, underwater hunting ect (screw over the ppl invested in skills and hunting gear).
Clearly its a good choice for u not to invest that large amount of money when u obvisley dont know the game yet

Just my 2 pecs.

And ofcorse, Welcome to Calypso

 

[Alice]

5. Food. Keep food and water on you to keep your stats maxed, starvation lowers stats based on a percentage, rare foods increase your stats based on a percentage.

we really need more cost per day just to keep walking around ^.-

not enough that armor decays 1 pec when put on, clothes 2 pec (which used to be free by the way) or that you have to repair your clothes to make them look the best as they could (although logical, the repair state didnt matter in terms of look, which made ppl buy more clothes, in terms of amount, now its way less clothes for the same amount of peds, which are even less often changed due to the fees, what effectively nerfed tailoring-and ppl who invested in skills and bps there)

much more of those unnecessary and ppl won't play anymore i guess, it is already pretty ridiculous to see those "pec nibbling" updates where you are forced to pay pec for getting nothing of use

some stay voluntarily at least
speaking of pec nibbling for no real use:

that taming itself isn't back yet, is nothing to be that sorry about
taming was basically like hunting, just with 3 "health bars", standing for different stuff (2 had to be low, one had to be full), which moved when a tamable mob (there were just 4) were hit by a whip
so basically hunting with 3 health bars and a whip

a tamed mob had up to 4 health bars again, of which one was still health, other its trust, "food level" and experience
the actual tamed mob had couldn't do much either, basically it could:

walk around
"greet" (which never worked on an instant, maybe for very high skilled tamers, but for the average player, so it could be minutes til you your pet finally greeted), which was one "special" animation per tamed animal
"impress", see "greet", just another animation
"follow", explains itself
and the most important:
eat nutrios, when the food bar went lower

of course the food bar got lower by itself, but also when you used "greet" and "impress" (pec nibbling)

to actually be able to use "impress" and "follow" (ah yes, you could name it too, which is why peds got used as advertising platform mostly)
you had to increase its trust, which needed you to use an animal brush on it
(ped nibbling)

i hope that gets improved, seriously ^^

but the "fun for $" spent seems to get lower often enough, food would definitely not help it ^^

 

[Fizzgig]

What I wasn't looking for was reasons why my ideas wouldn't work (as they were jotted down in 10 minutes, upon request). Rather, that ideas which made the game richer were a good thing. Maybe I should have put up a poll.

Are you happy with the structure and execution of this game? Do you find this game lacking in any way? Why?

 

[Hugh Willose]

You seem to know an awful lot after only a month, how do you know about hangers? Nobody has used one in the time you've been playing

 

[Svenn]

As Cea said, fishing would be cool. What I had in mind were things avatars could do to socialize. By the way I think foraging for dung/fruits/stones is a great idea and I like how they did it, and sweating is brilliant, more stuff like that.

1. Games with ranking systems that could be played in cities, like chess.
2. Camera blueprints - Avatars could build cameras, use them to take pictures and trade them, frame and hang them, hook them up to battery chargers etc.
3. Jewelry (profession).
4. Carpentry (not sure how buying furniture works, but carpenters could build their own). Logging, go chop down some trees, then haul them!
5. Food. Keep food and water on you to keep your stats maxed, starvation lowers stats based on a percentage, rare foods increase your stats based on a percentage.
6. Gardening (good incentive to own property and pay rent on it).
7. Gardening and Taming could have a breeding sub-profession, whereby risks could be taken to increase rewards.
8. Fall damage and underwater suffocation, then put a few more item spawns in the sea or on mountains.

I'm sure there are many more things that could be added to make the world feel more immersive, but that's what I came up with in a few minutes (but most of it is stuff I had been thinking the game needed for a while now).

I realize most of it would take an unbelievable amount of work to implement, but this game took an unbelievable amount of work to create. Entropia it's an amazing game, and it deserves more, imo.

Here's the problem... how many people would actually use those? My guess is a very very small percentage of the population. It's not worth the time and effort to implement these things that just aren't going to get used much. Hell, they'd probably spend more time on implementation than people would in actually using most of them.

At this point, they have a lot of things to keep different people around. There's hunting for people who just like to kill stuff. There's mining for people who want to do that. There's crafting for people who want to be merchants. There's beauty for people that want to be social... That's already far more than just about any other MMO.

Are you happy with the structure and execution of this game? Do you find this game lacking in any way? Why?

My only issue is that hunting is boring. You have 1 attack... shoot (or swing melee weapon). Whereas other games consist of tons of skills with varying damages/effects... hunting in this game is just target creature, press auto-tool (or repeatedly press the use tool button) and hope for the best. You might switch to a fap and heal a couple times, but that's about it.

 

[iancampbell]

Regarding hunting; it might be an interesting idea to make mobs more or less resistant to various forms of damage -thus making it worthwhile to diversify your weapon skills. This has been done in another game (although one with only four forms of damage) and it seems to work well.

I'd also like to see particle beamers in game. After all, the skill is there!

Also, mining in particular is pretty unrealistic. WTB pit prop BP.

 

[billairboy]

{deleted}

Players that have played the game some time can have a better understanding of what will work and what will not work in the game.

I have also though of things like food in the game, maybe farming as a proffession. But we must have some good effect from the need of food, not only just an other fee. Maybe we could find "basic food" for free with no tt value like fragments and buy other food stuff that give us better regenaration of HP than today.

I agree we need more "stuff" in the game to give the game more content and life. I have often sad that we need more rpg feautures in the game, like the missions that are comming. I would like to see more "mircro events" like finding space craft in the game.

 

[DoubleWolf]

I think the community is more than willing to listen to people and what they have to say. But there is a lot of experience with the game here as well, and people are very familiar with it. If something is out of place or a reason an idea wouldn't work, the people will let you know. You can't go on to a forum about brain surgery, with no experience in the subject, and start spouting off to doctors about how to operate on a brain. You will get challenged by everyone there. Now I'm not saying this game is brain surgery, but if there are experts on the matter, you've come to the right place...

It also goes along way to try to learn and become PART of the community instead of trying to battle every person that challenges one of your ideas.

{deleted}

 

[Fizzgig]

{deleted}

Hugh Willose: Do you realize how boring sweating is? I've been doing it a month while reading the forums most of that time. I've been obsessively reading forums trying to soak up information precisely because I was planning on investing in a LA, and I've come to my conclusion that it's not a wise investment. I just thought that instead of fading away, I'd give my feedback on what the game would need for an investor like me to take part. I only do this because of the immense potential I see in this game.

Here's the problem... how many people would actually use those? My guess is a very very small percentage of the population. It's not worth the time and effort to implement these things that just aren't going to get used much. Hell, they'd probably spend more time on implementation than people would in actually using most of them.

With the server population speculated at maybe 10k, and with 800,000 Entropia accounts, these activities would mainly be designed to hook the new players. From what I have read, Entropia seems to have a really bad retention rate.

In other words, all those things would be used by new players who would continue to play the game and actually be a part of the player base. Sure right now maybe no one would use them because all the newbs can't get past the login screen. Or if they do, they feel that wonderful empty feeling after they use up $20 on hunting and wonder where to go from there. Quit, perhaps.

This is all speculation, MindArk has the data so they would know better, it is quite possible that the best business model is what they have now.

 

[jjmatrix]

{deleted}

Would you like better if everyone would've said: "Yeah man, go ahead and buy a LA, you'll triple your money in no time!!!", when in fact you'll be contributing to the loot pool (and that's it)?

 

[DoubleWolf]

I've been obsessively reading forums trying to soak up information precisely because I was planning on investing in a LA, and I've come to my conclusion that it's not a wise investment. I just thought that instead of fading away, I'd give my feedback on what the game would need for an investor like me to take part. I only do this because of the immense potential I see in this game.

Yeah this probably isn't the greatest time to invest heavily into, well, anything really. Everyone is really cautious right now as we don't know what these new planets will bring, and what kind of effect it's going to have on the economy. A land area on Calypso may not be the wisest decision if suddenly everyone finds one of the new planets to be better for whatever reason.

If you're talking about investing in equipment, we've also been told that some weapons might not work on other planets, which could effect their current value as well.

The problem with this situation, which doesn't make much sense is that we all know that Mindark would LOVE to have your money. They would love to have you invest in their game. But they've been talking about these new planets for a couple years now, and for those couple years, a lot of people have been really cautious as far as investing in the game. There are a few nuts that'll throw money at anything, but I guarantee there would be a lot more people that would feel comfortable investing in EU if the universe's economic future wasn't SO left to be determined.

But I'd say if you've been reading up on the forums for the last month or so and have a good enough grasp of what's going on at this point (which it seems you do) you'll be well on your way to carving your niche here.

Only thing I can say is be open to criticism and advice. There is a lot of knowledge to be gained from people here. Everything from people that have been in the game for the better part of a decade, to people making a living off the game, to big spenders and investors, to people that closely study the intricate workings of the system. Do your best to learn from what they have to say. I always say the best way to be successful is to learn from successful people.

Everyone kind of goes through a little initiation here with the community. I certainly had mine. You start to think you have the game figured out, so you make a few posts trying to share your knowledge or some new idea you came up with. Chances are it's been thought of, or due to the nature of the game, would not be possible. How you deal with the evaluation of your comments goes a long way to determine your reputation with the community. Just try not to take it personal, like "Zhivago" obviously has...

 

[KyrismaStarsong]

{deleted}

To the OP, you only need accept the kindness, goodwill, generosity and friendship that you'll find here. I've been a part of it on both sides and can assure you the community and friendships you'll find in EU are un-paralleled anywhere. Congruently, if you want to fight, spit, argue and protest then you'll also find a community that is stronger than any other and with infinitely more resources in and out of game then you can imagine and you will certainly get squashed.

That's part of the charm of this game, everything is that much closer to real here. It's not just some fantasy world where forum flames are nothing more than entertainment, though they are entertaining.

 

[Fizzgig]

{deleted}

Of course people will show you the door when you come off as a know it all. 30 days in EU is like a few hours in any other game and when a new avatar comes around with all the answers and refuses to listen to the players that have been around and actually know something about what they say, what else do you expect?

Even though you quoted the Dr. I assume you are referring to me as the Dr. likely has more than 30 days of play time. If I'm wrong ignore the following paragraph.

As a month old noob, I have a unique perspective which veterans who have played this game for 5 years do not. This thread is here to express my ideas on what I think it would take to attract large investors and new players alike. I never said I know it all, or know a lot, or know more than people who have played this game a long time. I only say that this is my perspective.

To the OP, you only need accept the kindness, goodwill, generosity and friendship that you'll find here. I've been a part of it on both sides and can assure you the community and friendships you'll find in EU are un-paralleled anywhere. Congruently, if you want to fight, spit, argue and protest then you'll also find a community that is stronger than any other and with infinitely more resources in and out of game then you can imagine and you will certainly get squashed.

I'm not sure why you would bring up the community, which is a very strong point about Entropia (What other game would have a user generated 174 page guide). I am not fighting, spitting, or arguing, your post is irrelevant.

DoubleWolf: I'm open to criticism, I totally with your 5th paragraph, knowledge is power. All of these ideas have been thought of before, true, this is just one noobs opinion on what kinds of things should be implemented. Thanks for your posts.

 

[Profit]

Don't talk bad about EU/MA or you will be ganked by fanboys.

gank - Destroying another player's vessel in a very short time, ideally before they realize what is going on

 

[Norbert]

The OP has just presented his view of things as a potential investor, and nothing wrong with that imo. I can understand some of the points you raised being of concern (download issues being the main one i see), and also respect you deciding that now might not be the best time to invest in the area you are looking into.

I agree that investments here can be somewhat risky, and sometimes changes made impact investments. However as you get to know EU better, you start to see possiblities, and also to interpret what is happening within the economy. I also agree that some LA's got a rough deal at the start of VU 10, but i believe MA have been sorting things out. I guess what i am trying to say is, as with the real world you must research and even then you may lose; also high reward almost always comes with high risk.

I sincerely hope that you find your niche in EU, whether as a non depositer, low depositer, whatever you wish to persue.

 

[Profit]

In a nutshell, if you want to play a game for fun - don't need a chatroom? Don't feel like clicking your mouse1 button billions of times per 1millimeter of movement? - that won't leave you penniless and disappointed... play something else.
If you want a job that pays worse than cornfield slave labor with the potential to invest in ever-changing high-risk/low-return non-existant items, then EU is for you!

*waits to be ganked*

ps: I love and hate EU simaltaneously... it's just that the hate combined with the outrageous cost to play, outweighs the love lately.

 

[kcjeeper]

As someone who has been around a while I can't recommend investing any serious $$'s in this game. But I hope the OP sticks around and learns to enjoy the game as so many of us do. As entertainment, not an investment.

MA doesn't have a problem with nerfing existing conditions and making something worthless that was valuable just hours earlier. On the good side of that I had a small stash of A101 laser amps which have been selling nicely lately.

As for the acrimony on EF, I don't post much anymore after having my membership threatened for openly talking about a scammer who stole a very expensive gun but was friends of the management.

 

[DoubleWolf]

{deleted}

But back on track, one other thing I'd add is perhaps consider depositing a smaller amount to just try some more things out. It is possible to turn a profit here, even with small amounts of money if you play it right. Maybe deposit a small amount. Not sure what is small to you, but if 30k is an option, maybe a few hundred dollars? Something that if you lost, it's not going to break the bank. But then track your spending closely and see how that money does. This gives you an opportunity to try things out, see what works, see what doesn't. This is all of course is if you're bored with sweating. Gathering that much is quite impressive, and it's a good start if you really wanted to go the non deposit route.

I've deposited in the past, but it's been almost a year since my last deposit. I figured if I couldn't get by with the amount I had in there and break even fairly consistently so I can at least continue at that same level, then this really isn't a game I should be playing with my money.

Thus far, I've been fairly successful at that. I've been able to play about as much as I like (an hour or two a day on average) and have been able to turn a small profit since my last deposit. Seeing results like that make me feel a lot more comfortable about investing more money into the game (once the platform becomes more stable of course )

However, my results are apparently not typical. While I believe that the system generally gives back about 90% over time to everyone, not everyone is able to turn a profit. It all comes down to markup and how you deal with it. Buy low, sell high, hunt and mine for things with good markup and look for possible trading opportunities on occasion. I haven't made much at all from the little trading I've done but it certainly hasn't hurt.

It really just comes down to making wise decisions with your money and not being afraid of doing a little number crunching to see if something is indeed profitable or at the least, sustainable.

 

[Profit]

Agreed... John, perhaps deleting the posts pertaining to our little side track there might be a good idea?

But back on track, one other thing I'd add is perhaps consider depositing a smaller amount to just try some more things out. It is possible to turn a profit here, even with small amounts of money if you play it right. Maybe deposit a small amount. Not sure what is small to you, but if 30k is an option, maybe a few hundred dollars? Something that if you lost, it's not going to break the bank. But then track your spending closely and see how that money does. This gives you an opportunity to try things out, see what works, see what doesn't. This is all of course is if you're bored with sweating. Gathering that much is quite impressive, and it's a good start if you really wanted to go the non deposit route.

I've deposited in the past, but it's been almost a year since my last deposit. I figured if I couldn't get by with the amount I had in there and break even fairly consistently so I can at least continue at that same level, then this really isn't a game I should be playing with my money.

Thus far, I've been fairly successful at that. I've been able to play about as much as I like (an hour or two a day on average) and have been able to turn a small profit since my last deposit. Seeing results like that make me feel a lot more comfortable about investing more money into the game (once the platform becomes more stable of course )

However, my results are apparently not typical. While I believe that the system generally gives back about 90% over time to everyone, not everyone is able to turn a profit. It all comes down to markup and how you deal with it. Buy low, sell high, hunt and mine for things with good markup and look for possible trading opportunities on occasion. I haven't made much at all from the little trading I've done but it certainly hasn't hurt.

It really just comes down to making wise decisions with your money and not being afraid of doing a little number crunching to see if something is indeed profitable or at the least, sustainable.

Very valid points, but my issue with this outlook has always been;
Why encourage others to spend their spare time, essentially working, just so they can barely enjoy pinching pennies and working more?
When did fun and monotony become synonomous?

I love EU too... but I wouldn't/don't encourage my friends to work... err, I mean play.

 

[kosmos]

Very valid points, but my issue with this outlook has always been;
Why encourage others to spend their spare time, essentially working, just so they can barely enjoy pinching pennies and working more?
When did fun and monotony become synonomous?

I love EU too... but I wouldn't/don't encourage my friends to work... err, I mean play.

completely off topic but if you hof again will you have negative posts or positive ones. I could dig up some uber loots you had some weeks ago when you were happy with glee. a few weeks past by nothing but negative posts again

 

[JohnCapital]

completely off topic but if you hof again will you have negative posts or positive ones. I could dig up some uber loots you had some weeks ago when you were happy with glee. a few weeks past by nothing but negative posts again

Nothing wrong with being bi-polar.

I've both praised and bashed MA for the things they've done right and wrong.

 

[DoubleWolf]

Very valid points, but my issue with this outlook has always been;
Why encourage others to spend their spare time, essentially working, just so they can barely enjoy pinching pennies and working more?
When did fun and monotony become synonomous?

I love EU too... but I wouldn't/don't encourage my friends to work... err, I mean play.

Good point. The "penny pinching" type of play isn't for everyone. A lot of people say they just want to play the game, and that's fine. For me, the ACTUAL game play blows. It gets very repetitive, very fast. If all I want to do is play a game for strictly entertainment, I'll find something with way more action, storyline, better controls and an overall better experience.

I find my fun in this game FROM dealing with the money. The enjoyment comes from totaling my balance at the end of the month and seeing a + instead of a - and knowing that my actions caused that. That my actions generated real worth inside of a video game. I don't mind the "work" because that's fun to me.