Petition: Fix Wave-Based Loot

Rocket192

Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,833
Location
Michigan
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
Make Entropia Great Again!


So I decided to try some marcimex for the first time yesterday to confirm some data given to me by another player who had spent significant time on them. Big mistake.

I'll just start with some major points as we all know that item drops are wave-based and it ruins the game for many.


1) wave-based loot encourages botting, Alts, and other ToU violations.. if MA won't ban abusers then take the abusers' source of income away.

2)the wave based system is easily exploitable and results in markup crashes from over-farming from said abusers.

3) the abusers are not at fault for exploiting a flawed system to gain advantage and a RCE game... this is just the way it is and everyone has a right to gain an edge. However, gaining that edge typically involves ToU violations. MA provides a gateway for those ToU violations.

4) exploiting wave loots leads to lower turnover. This harms both MA revenue and CLD revenue. -Aio


I don't really care what replaces the system, but it needs to be less exploitable.
You can add further suggestions, comments, etc. and I'll update this post to contain them.
 
Last edited:

Rocket192

Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,833
Location
Michigan
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
Reserved for Avatar Signatures

Gaina Messi91 Cristi
Mg Joda VVV VVV
Sir Matt Copping
Sean Rocket Connors
Tor Ted Hovi
Mr. Droops Rob
MeLoveYou LongTime FiveDollar
Quell Que Star
Randy Hypnotyk Bafia
sir lance lancelot
Paul Jetman Masters
General of the sidxx Forsaken Fallen
The "Fifth" Entity
Sub-Zero The Killer
Aurora Linzey Zamperath
Fort Tress
hijacker Hijacker27 inferno
Fox FM superb
Darth Reven Reborn
hypnotica TRANCE blain
Avon AJ Jerrix
Andreas Bubba Mayhem
George Ace Skywalker
Ark Cybe Nor
Daisy Cold Finger
Kull KullXP Holland
Kerawan Kerham Maddahy
MegaVolt
HaKuRa HaKuRa 53i
KyrismaStarsong
Maximus Cashicus Profitus
Linas LGer Ger
Tony SandMan Jurca
Gloria GoNi Nicestyle
the-unknown
Zyloc Zyloc Mist
Jimmy Xpl0jd Volten
Thomas Miska Laky
Nighty Skorp Shadow
sss shaun27 deathray
Alfadur Alfadur Speed
Slinkii Butterknife Thundersauce
Thomas LMTR14 Reisinger
Toni Chiee Lahderinne
 
Last edited:

The Jetman

Prowler
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Posts
1,409
Location
Sheffield UK
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Paul Jetman Masters
i've always had issues with wave loot, playing a large amount of my time on cyrene is very noticeable, but better than it use to be. but i'm not sure what effect removing the waves would make.

it could make loot very common or extremely rare if the drop rate is slight % off or there is a sudden increase or decrease in hunting a mob.

a better system is needed and maybe it should be tested on a mob or planet first
 

Rocket192

Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,833
Location
Michigan
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
i've always had issues with wave loot, playing a large amount of my time on cyrene is very noticeable, but better than it use to be. but i'm not sure what effect removing the waves would make.

it could make loot very common or extremely rare if the drop rate is slight % off or there is a sudden increase or decrease in hunting a mob.

a better system is needed and maybe it should be tested on a mob or planet first

Agreed. MA is more than capable of using RNG to make rare loot less consistent and predictable without flooding markets. The wave-based system is grossly outdated
 

messi91

Elite
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Posts
3,395
Location
Medusa Bazaar floor2, shop3
Society
House of Gamers
Avatar Name
Gaina "Messi91" Cristi
I do not support wave hunting system.
Hire someone competent and change this.
 

Aio

Elite
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Posts
3,836
Location
Under Your Bed.
Society
Veterans
Avatar Name
Aio Dakina
There is a significant issue with wave items, for two main reasons - it is completely exploitable by those who know the wave timings (promoting both botting and a reduction in overall turnover) and for those who do not know the timings, they get relatively less than the other hunters as they hunt during both hot and cold periods.

Now, the issue of chance based dropping is oversupply of materials - as TT value of materials does not matter due to the cost to play charged by MA, it is essential that markup is maintained.

So, before petitioning to remove waves, MA must first come up with an alternative. As much as I hate waves, it is not constructive to say "anything else is better" because there are many alternatives which are far, far worse.
 

ImUp2Mischief

Guardian
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Posts
256
I believe loot waves exist for a reason even though they suck and get exploited.
Entropia is a skill game, not gambling, good observation and techniques allow you to pull more markup hence improving your returns through skilled actions.
 

matthew

Elite
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Posts
2,764
Location
England
Society
freelancer
Avatar Name
Sir Matt Copping
I noticed wave based loot for the first time recently while doing the puny iron mission. I was hunting for about 1 hour a day, on some days I would loot 5-7 L items (the amps and the little L guns) in the space of about 10 minutes, on other days I could go the entire hour without getting a single L item. I am about 7000 kills into the chain and have experienced this wave nature on 3 or 4 occasions now.

The system definitely seems unbalanced, if not unfair, in many ways.

Please sign me up,

Sir Matt Copping
 

Ted

Alpha
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Posts
688
Location
Norway
Avatar Name
Tor Ted Hovi
I agree wholeheartedly.

The BEST way to get rid of this is to COME FORWARD WITH THE INFORMATION.
That will force MA to do something about this.

I personally dont have any timing information other that one event-wave on Cyrene (a long time ago) had about 45 min between each drop with a +/- 5 min random. (This is all from memory and might be off)
 

atomicstorm

Slayer
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Posts
8,019
Location
Blockchain
Avatar Name
MeLoveYou LongTime FiveDolla
This ruined the game for me. I'm not sure they can get away from such a loot system. Loot waves ultimately says to me that loot can be earned during times there is consumption and by the time us folks log in, it's already been farmed out.
 

Aio

Elite
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Posts
3,836
Location
Under Your Bed.
Society
Veterans
Avatar Name
Aio Dakina
This ruined the game for me. I'm not sure they can get away from such a loot system. Loot waves ultimately says to me that loot can be earned during times there is consumption and by the time us folks log in, it's already been farmed out.

Well, two different things happening there.

Loot waves are the timings of the drops. The consumption issue is due to the item caps, made clear first by the amp upgrades and subsequently by the robot upgrades / fap upgrades.

The loot waves are a fundamental logic flaw in that they are predictable and therefore biased.

Item caps have a fundamental logic flaw in that the base item (say, EP41) should have a linked cap to the upgraded version (in this case, Adj EP41). There does need to be item caps (otherwise eventually, everyone would have the same gear) but the way to raise them is simply get more people playing. So the item cap issue is low down on my list of problems (fix the others first, larger player base, larger dynamic item caps, less noticeable).
 

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
2,172
This ruined the game for me. I'm not sure they can get away from such a loot system.

I think they could probably get away from it by tweaking the black box randomiser.
We basically need the loot pool to update more often, which means more server interactivity, yes, but could bring down the next potential drop time dramatically.

As I don't like the way the system works, I try not to pay really high attention to it (to my disadvantage), but it can't be in MA's interest to have people go afk whenever they catch wind of a drop, because they know the next drop CANNOT come for a certain period.

The flipside is that if a rare drop CAN come twice in quick succession, then the AVERAGE wait for the next drop after that will increase (if you count the two quick events as being like one event). What I mean is the lengths of time people can hunt continuously with ZERO drops of the desired loot from the lootpool will increase in practise, even if the actual 'average' stays the same after the changes.

However, I believe this is the way MA must change things.
It is possible, however, that MA uses some kind of algorithm similar to the printing of scratchcards, where the highest concentration of winning cards in a batch may be limited. Unfortunately, it is difficult to have an open discussion about the inner workings, I accept that....
 

Droops

Elite
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Posts
3,519
Location
The Netherlands
Society
The Gladiators
Avatar Name
Mr.Droops Rob
So I decided to try some marcimex for the first time yesterday. Big mistake.


Marcimex might be on my list, care to explain why it was a big mistake besides loot wave ?


I do not support wave hunting system.
 

Rocket192

Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,833
Location
Michigan
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
Marcimex might be on my list, care to explain why it was a big mistake besides loot wave ?


I do not support wave hunting system.

go down there and wait for an hour.. want a tip? record your gameplay :laugh:

Without accusing avatars of botting, which can be hard to confirm at times.. it's something to see the cave go from 1-2 players to 8-10 when the shroom waves start.

i'd prefer not to turn this into a botting debate thread though... we've had enough of those.
 

sir lancelot

Alpha
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Posts
571
Location
Michigan US
Avatar Name
sir lance lancelot
Sign me up as well. sir lance lancelot

It's sad that a few bad apples makes the whole orchard bad though cause many people track everything they do in order to find these waves just to make a decent return without huge investments and don't abuse the system. Now all that work will go for not if they fix it. All goes back to not having enough MU spread out though. Still amazes me that the have pretty much eliminated weapons II bp book by stopping the drops of basic scanners and all the other generic components. They need to re-balance that book and the weapons within it. And that is only one example I'm sure others can point to other things as well.
 
Last edited:

Hypnotyk

Elite
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Posts
3,834
Location
Chicago, IL
Society
discord.gg/bdDeqtn
Avatar Name
Randy Hypnotyk Bafia
signed Randy Hypnotyk Bafia
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Posts
516
Location
Oregon USA
Society
Gunslingers
Avatar Name
Quell Que Star
Loot is ok for me but I can see how Loot Waves are bad for the game, especially when others are botting. Put me on the list in support of change here please.
 

The Jetman

Prowler
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Posts
1,409
Location
Sheffield UK
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Paul Jetman Masters
might have been a little vague, but yeah i'd like my name adding ;)
 

sidxx

Prowler
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Posts
1,316
Location
"/pos"
Avatar Name
General of the sidxx Forsaken Fallen
Sign me up.

Really stupid that items are on a timer. It really discourages ped cycling, which imo is not in MAs best interests. Im tired of people coming into my hole to steal my shroomies. But marcimex have the same issue as caperon and eomon. I also have issues with what 5$ mentioned about the rare items MA inserts into loot that always seems to drop all at once to the same person or group. Perhaps in an effort for more fairness, a hidden temp cap system MA can construct that once a player loots an item of higher rarity and value that person is barred from getting another for a few hours. That and spread out the drops through out an event.
 

Fifth

Elite
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Posts
2,721
Avatar Name
The "Fifth" Entity
Usually I don't join petitions
But when I do I'll sign the loot wave ones! :cool:

Yeah, sign me up!
 

Sub-Zero

Elite
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Posts
3,551
Location
Sweden
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sub-Zero The Killer
You guys think only the wave system is at play?

I'm OK with botters not being banned. Since they keep feeding MA, and don't really take from the players.
I'm NOT OK with wave hunting botters being allowed to exist.
I'm NOT OK with market manipulators, should be punished.
I'm NOT OK with the stupid monopoly that due to not only this wave system but the limit system allows. There's a CAP for every item in the game. When that limit is reached, it will not drop until it has been consumed or until they raise the cap. Rich players can hoard items with higher MU and reach that cap, then sell when the price inevitably goes higher.

Just make it so grinding (the main core of this game) actually matters.
Just increase the freaking limit of stackables at least. Pyrite is a fine example of monopoly at play.
Even so removing the loot wave system is better than nothing I suppose.

So hereby Sub-Zero The Killer signs this petition.
 
Last edited:

krogfan

Stalker
Joined
Jun 17, 2013
Posts
1,546
Society
Endgame
Avatar Name
Aurora Linzey Zamperath
Sign me up, Id love a more modern and "dynamic" lootsystem. Change is good :)
 

atomicstorm

Slayer
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Posts
8,019
Location
Blockchain
Avatar Name
MeLoveYou LongTime FiveDolla
Well the joke on us is that it really isn't dynamic loot. Just mindark can do dynamic things.

But I'm against playing now because everyone should have a fair shake regardless of time zones, etc. I shouldn't have to play 24/7 or have a crystal ball. And since I've seen how arkadia loot works first hand, I've seen enough about the loot system as a whole.
 

Fort

Old Alpha
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
975
Location
Maine
Society
Jurai Blood
Avatar Name
Fort Tress
Make Entropia Great Again!

Signed, Fort
 

Hijacker27

Marauder
Joined
May 14, 2007
Posts
5,288
Location
Mississauaga Ontario, Canada
Society
Crimson Devils
Avatar Name
hijacker Hijacker27 inferno
Add my name to the list, so I can get more than lyst!
 

Rocket192

Elite
Joined
Nov 16, 2012
Posts
2,833
Location
Michigan
Society
Classified
Avatar Name
Sean Rocket Connors
I'm OK with botters not being banned. Since they keep feeding MA, and don't really take from the players.
I'm NOT OK with wave hunting botters being allowed to exist.


Just make it so grinding (the main core of this game) actually matters.

This is the problem in itself

MA has an interest to increase decay and turnover as much as possible... Botters are great at increasing turnover, when actually decaying constantly. That's why MA will not ban botters......

So... change loot waves = less botting.... or at least less "loot-wave botting" which is the core of the issue here..

I don't think anyone cares that botters exist if they're shooting 24/7... they become a problem when their used to exploit a poorly-designed loot distribution algorithm
 

[FM]

Alpha
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Posts
669
Location
Sweden
Society
♥Baby Joda♥
Avatar Name
Fox FM superb
Sign me..

Fox FM superb
 

Darth Revan

Prowler
Joined
May 10, 2016
Posts
1,150
Location
Canada
Society
Love Craft Academy
Avatar Name
Darth Reven Reborn
Sign me up for this....Most of the time the loot wave happens when i'm not online...so I get to be one of those ones that just gets bad loot for an hour before having to log off....doesn't stop me from playing...just means I have to stand around sweating for skills more each month (when my monthly deposit has been used up).
 

trance

Elite
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Posts
4,284
Location
Old Switzerland
Society
Natural Born Killers
Avatar Name
hypnotica TRANCE blain
I sign too. I don't like this system too. Loot waves help no one at the end, if ppl lost the fun to play and depo about this issue. May this is the problem, why i lost so fast, i just don't hit the waves.

An other idea could be, that we make the waves publique in chats, all around, if they happen, so everyone have the same chance. But are ppl ready to do so? I mean this ppl knowing, when the WAVEs happen. Are they ready to share this infos, to make the game better, or force MA to make a better system?
 
Top