Petition to remove Explosive BPs (or change them) - Part 2

[Me Really Never]

the amps are selling good? 7 sales in the past on the armatrix l-amplifier 6B, 15 sales for 10b, 12 sales for 13b, ... but why would you spend MU on those armatrix amps over and over again, when you can have a 14 damage UL amp (omegaton a-104) for only about 200 PED...

and now explain again how those UL amps and so on aren't killing crafting and economy...

why didnt you respond to the rest of my post? why the cherrypicking?

and yes, each amp doesnt have that many sales but dont forget that there are like 4 dozen of different amps. when you combine the sales its not too bad. and if you want to sell more you are going to need more players. but how do you wanne get new players when all they see is that broken ep4 bullshit that makes all their shit worthless?

 

[Post_History]

the amps are selling good? 7 sales in the past on the armatrix l-amplifier 6B, 15 sales for 10b, 12 sales for 13b, ... but why would you spend MU on those armatrix amps over and over again, when you can have a 14 damage UL amp (omegaton a-104) for only about 200 PED...

and now explain again how those UL amps and so on aren't killing crafting and economy...

Simple Efficiency is king now and those amps your are referring to are not much use....

I can say I do not own any unl amp... not worth the peds….

 

[Alukat123]

why didnt you respond to the rest of my post? why the cherrypicking?

and yes, each amp doesnt have that many sales but dont forget that there are like 4 dozen of different amps. when you combine the sales its not too bad. and if you want to sell more you are going to need more players. but how do you wanne get new players when all they see is that broken ep4 bullshit that makes all their shit worthless?

if you can cherrypick, so can i.

it's pretty bad... if there were no UL amps around there may be 50-100 sales or even more of the amp per week instead of 7....

 

[Me Really Never]

if you can cherrypick, so can i.

it's pretty bad... if there were no UL amps around there may be 50-100 sales or even more of the amp per week instead of 7....

you still didnt show me a mob for 20 peds per kill huntable with an a104, an unnamed ul gun and grunt armor.

and u didnt show me a gun with 1400 dps for 2k peds yet. so why are you still comparing apples with oranges?

 

[Alukat123]

You still haven't answered why crafters should pay MU on every frigging click while hunters can only feed TT value...
And don't just cherry pick high level hunting MU gear again, look at low level stuff as well...

 

[Me Really Never]

You still haven't answered why crafters should pay MU on every frigging click while hunters can only feed TT value...
And don't just cherry pick high level hunting MU gear again, look at low level stuff as well...

i did answer that. maybe you overread it while cherrypicking. i did say a few posts above that the initial investment for hunter is WAY above the initial investment needed for crafters. 99% of the UL bps cost 1 to 5 peds and the expensive bps cost maybe up to 2k peds. there are very few which cost more but those are basically off the market.

and why should i look at low level gear? we are comparing 20 ped per click here. you CANT (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) kill 20 ped per kill monsters in low level gear. impossible. so why compare it? i can also compare crafting recycle 4 bps to hunting punys but it just doesnt make any kind of sense...

 

[Alukat123]

Simple Efficiency is king now and those amps your are referring to are not much use....

I can say I do not own any unl amp... not worth the peds….

Omegaton A-104 - 12 damage - 83.1% efficiency - TT+120
Shack-a-lacka laser amp MK II - 10 damage - 63.9% efficiency - made from alt, copper, vixen android audio unit modified - ~114% MU
Armatrix L-Amplifier 10B - 13 damage - 85% efficiency - made from basic sensor, metal mountings, focus lense components, simple I conductors, nanocube - 142% MU

and you really wonder why there's not much demand for mined/hunted materials? EP isn't the issue.

 

[Alukat123]

i did answer that. maybe you overread it while cherrypicking. i did say a few posts above that the initial investment for hunter is WAY above the initial investment needed for crafters.

that may be true, however you're feeding only tt value in it, so the effective MU tends to go towards 100% in the long run. A crafter has to pay MU forever and it will always be 101 to 1000 or even more%, except on EP there it's 100% too .

So please explain, when you have effective MU of 100% in the long run, why should crafters not get the same treatment?

 

[Me Really Never]

that may be true, however you're feeding only tt value in it, so the effective MU tends to go towards 100% in the long run. A crafter has to pay MU forever and it will always be 101 to 1000 or even more% .

So please explain, when you have effective MU of 100% in the long run, why should crafters not get the same treatment?

Well for one the crafter buys the BP once and thats it. and the hunter has gear that devalues vastly over time which results in a definitive loss on his paid markup. the BPs are +- the same in the longrun, if they cost anything at all.

a mid level hunter loses at least 5k to 10k peds just through devaluation. he high level hunter loses probably 10 times this if not more. a crafter loses near to zero through devaluation. next thing is skills for hunting are practically worthless but crafting skills have pretty high value. so on every crafting run you earn extra MU that a hunter doesnt. and thats quite a lot.

next thing is: the crafter buys loot for 110% and sells stuff for 120%. the hunter buys stuff from crafter for 120% and gets loot worth 101% (if lucky enough to get any MU at all). the crafter gets a lot more MU than the hunter so he pays more MU as well. its fair isnt it?

 

[Alukat123]

Well for one the crafter buys the BP once and thats it. and the hunter has gear that devalues vastly over time which results in a definitive loss on his paid markup. the BPs are +- the same in the longrun, if they cost anything at all.

doesn't change the fact that you're paying nearly 100% MU in the long run....

next thing is: the crafter buys loot for 110% and sells stuff for 120%. the hunter buys stuff from crafter for 120% and gets loot worth 101% (if lucky enough to get any MU at all). the crafter gets a lot more MU than the hunter so he pays more MU as well. its fair isnt it?

UL Hunter pays nearly 100% MU on hunt, expects the crafter to pay 120-200% MU for the looted materials, doesn't want/have to buy anything from the crafter, crafter can just send the item he paid a lot of MU for to the tt. it's fair isn't it?

Btw, due to ammo burn you don't pay 120% per shot, maybe 101-103% effectively...

 

[Alukat123]

a mid level hunter loses at least 5k to 10k peds just through devaluation. he high level hunter loses probably 10 times this if not more. a crafter loses near to zero through devaluation. next thing is skills for hunting are practically worthless but crafting skills have pretty high value. so on every crafting run you earn extra MU that a hunter doesnt. and thats quite a lot.

hunting has shopkeeper pad, ESI and so on... EP has nothing, except the opal every now and then...

 

[Me Really Never]

doesn't change the fact that you're paying nearly 100% MU in the long run....



UL Hunter pays nearly 100% MU on hunt, expects the crafter to pay 120-200% MU for the looted materials, doesn't want/have to buy anything from the crafter, crafter can just send the item he paid a lot of MU for to the tt. it's fair isn't it?

Btw, due to ammo burn you don't pay 120% per shot, maybe 101-103% effectively...

so you are saying that you are mad because you cant tt everything? maybe go play in an online casino. that seems to suit you better.
or just try to read and understand my posts. that might help you understand this game a little bit better

 

[Alukat123]

so you are saying that you are mad because you cant tt everything?

that's not what i am saying... the "it's fair isn't it?" was just meant differently.

 

[Me Really Never]

hunting has shopkeeper pad, ESI and so on... EP has nothing, except the opal every now and then...

yeah like i get a shopkeeper pad every 10 allos. im im quite sure the shopkeeper is rarer than the opals. and there are also the limited blueprints of insane value. ive sold some attachment blueprints (limited) for way over 2k peds. so the same as the shopkeeper pad. but ive found the blueprints more frequently as i never got a shopkeeper pad despite only crafting every now and then.

 

[Me Really Never]

as you dont seem to understand how crafting works ill tell you this: i know a lot more people who frequently make peds with crafting and earn easy money with it and i know very very very few players who make easy money with hunting (actually since loot 2.0 i know zero people who do this).
so what are you complaining about again? crafting is the easiest profession to profit with.

 

[Alukat123]

as you dont seem to understand how crafting works ill tell you this: i know a lot more people who frequently make peds with crafting and earn easy money with it and i know very very very few players who make easy money with hunting (actually since loot 2.0 i know zero people who do this).
so what are you complaining about again? crafting is the easiest profession to profit with.

I understand crafting very well, i made plenty profits. However, i try to tell you why there's so many tt-food / low MU materials for hunters/miners... you seem to not get that.

 

[Me Really Never]

I understand crafting very well, i made plenty profits. However, i try to tell you why there's so many tt-food / low MU materials for hunters/miners... you seem to not get that.

its nice that you wanne tell me what i know but the thing is this was about ep4 being unfair towards other professions and being big time gambling (just look at poor henry...)

 

[Alukat123]

its nice that you wanne tell me what i know but the thing is this was about ep4 being unfair towards other professions and being big time gambling (just look at poor henry...)

why? you put TT in, EP gamblers put TT in, it's fair. Given that the EP BP droprate has been drastically nerfed, those BPs may no longer come as cheap as you think in the future.

 

[Alukat123]

Oh, and if EP IV gets removed, then the gamblers start crafting with hunting/mined materials, which is gonna be great for hunters/miners, but it's gonna be fucking terrible for crafters....

 

[Thorns Rose]

Sign me up:

New York Rose

 

[Me Really Never]

Oh, and if EP IV gets removed, then the gamblers start crafting with hunting/mined materials, which is gonna be great for hunters/miners, but it's gonna be fucking terrible for crafters....

and why is that? i didnt hear em crying big time before ep4 was released. they can still get good blueprints on the gamble and get the invested MU back
and point being is that they shouldnt gamble at all. cos gambling is illegal.

and i dont know how often i should say my points regarding hunters equipment. ive done enough and you wont read it so ill just stop it. why write something you dont wanne read ? :-/

 

[Alukat123]

and why is that? i didnt hear em crying big time before ep4 was released. they can still get good blueprints on the gamble and get the invested MU back
and point being is that they shouldnt gamble at all. cos gambling is illegal.

because the gamblers will drive up the MU on many materials and in the process the MU of crafted items will reach the point where it's no longer worth crafting.

Like that arma II gambler, driving azur pearls up to 200% MU, bad time for everyone who needs to buy them for less than 160%. So it kills crafts in the process...

and i dont know how often i should say my points regarding hunters equipment. ive done enough and you wont read it so ill just stop it. why write something you dont wanne read ? :-/

i gave you an answer, if you don't get it, that UL gear is killing many crafts and the MU of many materials, then that's not my problem...

 

[Darth Revan]

Interesting read this past day....almost popcorn worthy.
Some thoughts:

The MU paid for items is irrelevant, whether you pay only 2K for EP 4 BP or 70K for a weapon, its the fact that you don't pay any MU to use that BP/Weapon that should be the concern.

Just because those weapons are highly inflated and people keep them inflated to not loose their investment, does not change the fact that once you have it, you no longer need to pay MU going forward. Same with EP4, it could cost 100K for the BP and still the same principle applies. I would like to see sweat added as an ingredient to the EP BP's, even if its just 1:1 sweat/nancube ratio....it would help the newbies.

The next thought is about the economy, i get that people think EP4 destroyed the economy, however that is not entirely correct. EP4 just showed how inflated the economy was. The only reason things cost what they did were the gamblers (and yes i consider EP4 crafters as gamblers). Items were not what they were worth, what we have now is closer to how things should have been (could still be improved though) with the ArMatrix weapons/amps that can be useful to craft. They require components that hunters/miners supply, and in turn crafters supply those hunters with weapons & miners with amps. In saying that, these new FEN and Mayhem weapons do not help as they are adding more UL items where demand is less for those crafted weapons.

Unlimited items should no longer drop in my opinion, it hurts the economy, it does not help it. We need things to stimulate the economy....even BP's should be L only (which is why i like the new ArMatrix BP's).

 

[ZippO]

GAMBLOR

 

[Xavier_Jr]

Everything in hunting have MU and DECAY
But the real problem is this: EP crafting is pure gambling and thats could be danger for the game considering new persperspectives from sweden laws.
Finally, many players have signed this petition.

 

[Alukat123]

We need things to stimulate the economy....even BP's should be L only (which is why i like the new ArMatrix BP's).

then the droprate of L BPs would need to be so high, that they basically become worthless and not so many ressorces will have to be burned on BP grind anymore, because you need to loot a new one before the current one expires and L BPs come with 3-100 clicks, so droprate for L BPs would turn from current 1 in about 150 clicks to 1 in 30 clicks or so.

the current mixture of UL BPs + L BPs is quite fine, the grind for L BPs and higher UL BPs burns a lot of ressources.

 

[Kalixt]

Fools, what about metal residue ? You want to have higher markup on ores but every crafted item gonna reflect the markup of metal residue. It can go up to 110% without EP. I do not play long enough to know what was the markup of metal residue before EP.

 

[trance]

Fools, what about metal residue ? You want to have higher markup on ores but every crafted item gonna reflect the markup of metal residue. It can go up to 110% without EP. I do not play long enough to know what was the markup of metal residue before EP.

Can't remember, but is was high enough to get some % and you also find a lot buyers for it.

 

[boring_player]

It looks like I have opened pandora's box digging this thread up. But that's ok - things got just a little bit derailed when you started to discuss EP influence on MU rather than this:

Everything in hunting have MU and DECAY
But the real problem is this: EP crafting is pure gambling and thats could be danger for the game considering new persperspectives from sweden laws.
Finally, many players have signed this petition.

It's not a coincidence that you cannot buy lootboxes here form Swedish IP since 01.01.2019. New law has been introduced. When you look at EP IV and read some posts from Swedish Gambling Authority website you can clearly see that most likely Entropia Universe in its current state breaches the new Swedish gambling act.

That is why I have dig up this thread - AMA is coming in early February. I want new CEO to assure that they have aligned EU platform with new requirements. Do your research. It looks like EU platform and MA will need a lottery or gambling license to keep EP IV alive. This may put players at risk. And their avatars value.

regards,
boring_player


Please let's go back to the core of discussion. Thanks.

I dig this thread up because of the upcoming AMA with new CEO. Community knows that there is zero reason for providing so huge supply of Explosive Projectile to the market. Nanocubes available in trade terminal simply play the role of a gambling token rather than crafting ingredient. Blueprint levels represent the value of the bet. You don't even need skills to gamble. You can buy them or simply gamble under your level. You can do high risk or low risk gambling (quantity & condition). Activity is mostly determined by chance. All you can do is to slightly increase your winning chance by having a high QR blueprint or more skill chips. I hope that Henrik reads the forum and this little *bump* will help him to refresh his point of view on this issue.

Explosive Projectiles "crafting" is so closely related to slot machine gambling that in fact, from new 2019 legal perspective, you could consider it gambling or lottery. Hiding a casino slot machine behind the curtain of "crafting" for sure helps to avoid many legal requirements.
Nanocubes, crafting machine, skill chips, blueprints - it is all smoke and mirrors, a doors behind which you can find pure gambling slot machine with 95% average return to player ratio.

We need new CEO fresh opinion on this. It is crucial for the game and its community.

This petition will be a subject of some of my questions to Henrik, partially connected with MindArk cooperation with Swedish Gambling Authority & EGBA. Let's give him a chance to check again what community thinks about crafting EP with TT ingredients.

Regards,

boring_player

 

[Alukat123]

That is why I have dig up this thread - AMA is coming in early February. I want new CEO to assure that they have aligned EU platform with new requirements. Do your research. It looks like EU platform and MA will need a lottery or gambling license to keep EP IV alive. This may put players at risk. And their avatars value.

It's not just to keep EP IV alive, literally every craft works like EP IV ^^