FYI: Pioneer in Mall Shops wtf???

[Mandy]

5) In order to be able to buy Pioneer without having to travel to the depths of Hadesheim, and given that we are able to make it available in a more convenient location, we do so. I had no problem in allowing this to happen in our shop because I understand that it's handy to have the option of paying a little extra for convenience.

I have no problem with your pricing policy, but trying to justify selling Pioneer with such a reason as above is laughable.

You expect people to pay more for the privilege of making a specific trip to your shop, which is by no means what I would consider especially convenient, when they can just to go to an Armorer instead?

And please don't give me that depths of Hades crap! Even if you didn't already know, had you looked at the screenshot of the Armorer in the opening post, you would see they are not confined to Hades.

The Armorer shown, located in Ithaca, is without question more conveniently located than your shop.

In all honesty, I think I'm the only one of the four directors of SFE who was aware that the armorer sells Pioneer, so any responsibility for an issue here must rest with me. Perhaps if I had pointed it out, the others would have said we shouldn't stock it - it's honestly a conversation we haven't had, because it's got nothing to do with the way we run our business.

The Armorers aren't exactly the most common of knowledge, but it doesn't say much for your colleagues when about two years on and running a supposedly specialist business, they don't know this.

If I was one of the others I would be pretty pissed with you right now for keeping this information to yourself.

And yes I'm being harsh, but somebody needs to beat some sense into you.

If you feel Pioneer is required in order to provide a complete service, maybe you should put details of where to purchase it on your website, or offer a free delivery service.

Continuing to sell Pioneer for anything more than tt whilst it is still available from the Armorer is unethical in my opinion.

And if your prices are truly a reflection of your crafting costs, maybe your access to materials isn't as superior as you think.

 

[Kuber]

SFE, fundamentally, is taking the crafting process out of the equation for Entropians, and allowing them to:

• come to the shop and reliably find the finished product
• KNOW they're paying a fair price which is probably less than it would have cost THEM to make it (we have superior access to crafting resources due to running a company based on it)
• CERTAINLY experience far less hassle than self-crafting (which I can say is frequently NOT a doddle!)
• not have to worry about, or spend time on what goes on behind the scenes for it to get there.

We believe this is a valuable service to the community, and this is confirmed for us by the regular new and repeat business that we experience on an ongoing basis.

Just wanted to throw my two cents in here. I think you guys provide a great service, and your business model is 100% apparent (and sound) to this consumer.

Keep up the good work! Entropia's a better place with your business around...

 

[vantastic]

Interesting conversation! I'm not going to multiquote everyone here as I think Tim has adequately (although somewhat verbosely) answered everything... but I'll answer just two that I believe have not been covered already:

If you feel Pioneer is required in order to provide a complete service, maybe you should put details of where to purchase it on your website, or offer a free delivery service.

That sounds like a good option to just buy it from the armourer and stock it in our shop - again we're still recouping our costs and providing the service level we so highly strive to maintain.

And if your prices are truly a reflection of your crafting costs, maybe your access to materials isn't as superior as you think.

I'm pretty sure we've never stated to have fantastic access to materials. Regardless, any drop in price we pay is directly reflected in pricing of the armour itself. And we would love for the price to drop so that everyone wins.

 

[nlnforever]

Quote from TimUnleashed

KNOW they're paying a fair price which is probably less than it would have cost THEM to make it (we have superior access to crafting resources due to running a company based on it)

Quote from vantastic

I'm pretty sure we've never stated to have fantastic access to materials. Regardless, any drop in price we pay is directly reflected in pricing of the armour itself. And we would love for the price to drop so that everyone wins.

 

[Menace]

Setting the issue of selling Settler/Pioneer/whatever aside...

It might be helpful if some people complaining about prices in this thread did a cost calculation of a certain piece of armour.... any piece... to calculate the cost of crafting which includes the bp. This is relevant to L bps ofc.....

Then ask yourself if you would craft it, and sell it at auction markup....

I have a spreadsheet that will help if you are bad at maths...
It will open your eyes I can promise you that

Pip.... you're missing the point here. No doubt some armor is stupid in price because the materials are insane. I craft armor and as I told you before when we talked.... that's why I was inquiring about buying a set of Orca off of you. Because I knew it would be cheaper to buy it (at my skill level). And your price for Orca was very reasonable. HOWEVER...... Orca is at least practical for certain mobs.... Dragon.... is a signifigant step down from Shogun... and I don't care what color it is.... a harness with those protection values just isn't worth over 500 PED markup.... period. Therefore... my statement is.... Unfortunately, sometimes the materials involved are not properly matched with the capabilities of the final product. And that's why MU prices are far below material costs... because the armor's not worth the material cost no matter how much crafters wish it were. So.... that statement leads me... as a business man IRL.... to wonder why they would waste money stocking an overpriced item. As far as some of the other armors are concerned.... the low end cheap armors are priced too high.... sell 10 pieces at 1 PED profit, or 1 piece at 5 PED profit... which makes you more money? I just think alot of these shops markup their stuff TOO much.... that's all.

Tim.. you've responded to everything I've stated above already.. just figured I'd write it again for someone who missed it the first time.

 

[vantastic]

Nicely put Menace...

Your statement is so true with Trooper as well because of the price of Ruga... MA needs to seriously re-think material drop rates, or at least ingredient lists for not just Armour but weapons and tools too. There seems to be a massive disconnect with this sort of thing and unfortunately everyone, crafters and consumers included, are stuck in the middle of this situation.

As for my previous post - damn. I should have learned to stop skim-reading Tim's posts by now

In all honesty this thread is great. I love hearing the mixed opinions and this is what helps everyone get a better understanding of what really goes on with crafting. Great responses from all and I for one welcome both negative and positive responses as SFE evolves its policies and procedures to appease the majority.

Thanks everyone!

 

[NastyCenturion]

your own manufactured armors in shop whatever markup u put it's ok ... Pioneer in shop (gay)

 

[cuculet]

Hey, i have a question for all of you.

Lets say in RL you go to a store to buy "something". U see its price, u go to another store and see the same "something" at a lower price.

As i understand from your whinings, in RL you just go to the store with the biger price and start yelling they ripp of people?? I suppose you do since you do it here... right?

The armour store in question here has a wide range of armors. As they said, if i go there i can choose from pioneer to whatever uber armor i can think of that is crafted.
Do i want to buy from them? Depends, but that does not mean that i must cry about it on the forums. If you don't like it go away. Nobody is forcing you to buy. As for the prices, they are ok. I got some armors from theyr store and i will get some more.

Whiners

 

[Macce]

From description of Dragon:

"Chikara Dragon armor is constructed by using flexible composite parts layered with shock-absorbing fiber-resin. This armor is sometimes used as a heavy-duty and somewhat exclusive armor by the fashionable on Calypso. It is also widely copied by local constructors."

I doubt dunkel will become massevly available.

Btw with 5B plates this is a very good armor. It is an armor for mid level player who just want to cut the edge from the mid lvl moobs attacks. I have used it alot against Argonauts up to Warriors keeping decay cost low. Nope it may not justify its price/protection but crafting cost justifyes SFE:s pricing model.

 

[Irea]

Wow! I haven't even known that NPC's/TT sell other armor than settler is the only shop in ithaca?

 

[ACEwoK]

Quote from TimUnleashed

KNOW they're paying a fair price which is probably less than it would have cost THEM to make it (we have superior access to crafting resources due to running a company based on it)

Quote from vantastic

I'm pretty sure we've never stated to have fantastic access to materials. Regardless, any drop in price we pay is directly reflected in pricing of the armour itself. And we would love for the price to drop so that everyone wins.

nlnforever,

When Tim was referring to "superior access to crafting resources" he was talking about our systems and procedures and record keeping and not to our access to raw materials (which is in fact my job to procure).

I'll grant you that it could have been worded differently to forestall a misunderstanding but i can assure you that the idea was to point out that we know its a fair price because we have access to our own figures and numbers on crafting and we work out our cost directly from the recorded stats we gather on each crafting run.

Vantasic, however, IS referring to our access to raw materials. We, like any other person(s) who craft, are after the best possible deal that we can get on materials that allow us to pass on those same cost savings to our customers.

My job, as the Logistics Officer for SFE, is to procure all manner of materials (ores and enmatter) that we need in order to craft our armour and i consider it a matter of professional pride if i can secure materials at a reduced price that will allow us gain a little breathing space (you may read this as profit). I have developed my own network of contacts who i regularly consult in order to procure materials, but sometimes they cannot help me or (due to the time zone difference and other IRL reasons, like my job) they are not online when i am "shopping" and so like 99% of Entropians, i am forced to use the auction. I also make a point of buying from and supporting other shop owners and have regular places that i check when i'm on a requisitioning run. However, there are times i am forced to pay above market price for what we need and so it all "evens out in the wash" so to speak.

The crux of my point is that material costs are the same for us as they are for 99% of Entropians but when we are able to gather materials at a reduced average price then those savings are passed directly on to our customers.

At no other place is this better illustrated than Hawkwing's monthly Price Guide, which i would highly recommend people read in order to facilitate more of an understanding of our methods.

If that still doesn't sway you (or if you are just interested in knowing more about us) then i implore you to take 5 minutes and read the SFE Story, which might shed a bit more light on what we are about and how we came to be.

(Please note that the website is a work in progress and anything other than the main core of operations (i.e NEWS and CATALOGUE) is low priority on our update list and so might not look as "shiny and sparkly" as we would eventually like it to be)

 

[Oleg]

One of MA's ingame ads condones auctioning TT gear

What advert is that?

a harness with those protection values just isn't worth over 500 PED markup.... period.

Some people pay 10 times that for a coat with zero protection.

 

[nlnforever]

Hey, i have a question for all of you.

Lets say in RL you go to a store to buy "something". U see its price, u go to another store and see the same "something" at a lower price.

As i understand from your whinings, in RL you just go to the store with the biger price and start yelling they ripp of people?? I suppose you do since you do it here... right?

The armour store in question here has a wide range of armors. As they said, if i go there i can choose from pioneer to whatever uber armor i can think of that is crafted.
Do i want to buy from them? Depends, but that does not mean that i must cry about it on the forums. If you don't like it go away. Nobody is forcing you to buy. As for the prices, they are ok. I got some armors from theyr store and i will get some more.

Whiners

no one is whinning here. The question rising here is why you would place a TT stuff in your shop? If you have a weapon shop, would you place OPALO in your shop for tt+1?

Your shop, your price, your stuff, do whatever you want. You have rights. It's just about business ethic and image.

Again, I don't care about your price policy. In my opinion, it's bad. And I already said: it's my opinion and only my own opinion. We have our own opinions and we have freedom to express our opinions.

What I care here is why you place a TT stuff in your shop? Is it ethical to place a OPALO in a weapon shop? GOT IT?

p/s: Settler armour is crafted, STF should place Settler armours in their shop too. Wait, the Settler is too easy to find in TT. So let's place Pioneer armour set, which is not easy to find, you must run to specific NPC for it.

 

[Manix6]

I really cant believe some of the posts in this thread!

First up, how SFE decides to go about their business is entirely that, THEIR BUSINESS!. By all means provide feedback to them, but maybe a private message expressing your concerns would have been better suited to the situation.

I completely understand their pricing, You go craft 10 pioneer harness and sell them at the craft cost, and im sure you will see that its definitely not TT price.

SFE are providing a service, they seem very dedicated to their ideas. And i think its because of this they do stock all crafted armors. Their prices reflect the costs to craft, if you dont want to support these guys providing such a service to the EU community then walk away. Dont muddy their reputation just because you dont understand the concept of fashion armors and providing a service.

 

[Violet]

What I care here is why you place a TT stuff in your shop? Is it ethical to place a OPALO in a weapon shop? GOT IT?

Seems to be the question that after 5 pages and various replies from SFE still remains unanswered.

Anyone selling popcorn i seem to be running out

 

[Goreon]

TT stuff in a shop

Dont think great idea but that is up to the shop owner. If you buy from the shop with a markup and not TT you have not done any research in the game before starting.

If you dont read through the forums and look at abundance of guides about EU before starting to invest your PED you are going to lose PED in many ways and not only buying TT stuff with markup from a shop

Pricing
I do agree with the pricing model here, I have done lots of crafting and do have a collection of armors (some crafted, some from auction).

The thing that has to be considered here is the difference with Limited and Unlimited armors and how that impacts the MU of an item in Auction. Unlimited items have a "rotation" within EU, where Limited are used and then discarded making the price difference not as drastic.

I have a Dragon Harness but decide to sell it for TT + 50 PED, I know there is a possibility I can buy it again for TT + 50 PED in a few weeks / months. If for some reason there are no longer any Dragon Harness available in Auction (those who have purchased them decide that they are never selling it again, very unlikely but required for explanation) and I need to craft one (or get someone to craft one), I will be paying a lot more than TT + 50 PED for it due to the materials used and that is guaranteed.

So if a shop owner is crafting the items themselves, the price should reflect the cost of making it, otherwise no point in owning the shop or crafting cause you going to lose your money very quickly.

P.S. Whether it provides the protection of cheaper armors or not has nothing to do with anything here, it is whether or not you want that armor or not

Keep it up SFE, you sound like you have put a lot of thought into the business process, keep it up

 

[Menace]

As i understand from your whinings, in RL you just go to the store with the biger price and start yelling they ripp of people?? I suppose you do since you do it here... right?

No... IRL I just don't shop there.... unless I overhear management speaking about how and why their prices are good or acceptable. Then I say something to them.
I personally didn't start this thread. Just responded to one of the shop owner's comments. I meant no harm with my response, and I'm satisfied with their statements (though it doesn't mean I have to agree with them). This is a great opportunity for a business in EU to get some negative feedback about their shop. without negative feedback, their business would never improve. And with the associated positive feedback, they know what they are doing that they should keep doing to keep customers happy.

I really don't think it's their fault that some materials have big markup and that MA chose to use those materials in less then effective hardware. However, like I stated.... stocking that hardware only helps the prices of those materials stay very hight. Great for the miners...... bad for re-sellers, consumers, and the like.

I completely understand their pricing, You go craft 10 pioneer harness and sell them at the craft cost, and im sure you will see that its definitely not TT price.

Then you're crafting the wrong item if you're crafting it for the purpose of breaking even or making PED. My belief, is that things like Pioneer armor are cheap skilling items. Now skilling can't be free... otherwise everyone would craft for the skills.... so.... slight cost.... lots of clicks.... out comes a bunch of Pioneer to TT and recoup SOME of the costs of the skilling. Crafters have to start somewhere.
Most people don't know about the armor salesmen to buy pioneer... so if they want it... they buy at auction. This shop should just buy from TT and place in shop at TT so that they are able to offer complete sets. Actually.... sell at just above TT to cover the shop fee's associated with shop purchases. That way... someone who don't know where to pick up sets at TT can at least save the time of surfing through auction.

 

[nlnforever]

That way... someone who don't know where to pick up sets at TT can at least save the time of surfing through auction.

That's why I called it 'exploitation people who is lack of knowledge

This is not the matter of right or wrong. Depends on each individual ethic, we can justify it right or wrong. In my opinion, it's wrong. In yours, it could be different. The world is a variety of possibilities, and EU is dynamic.

 

[Valdes]

What advert is that?




Some people pay 10 times that for a coat with zero protection.

That BS ad where they advertise the different features of EU (its an old one, still ingame last I checked) and one of the professions they advertise is 'Trading'. They show a person's inventory full of Settler Shinguards and the person putting one up for auction.

 

[Butch C]

it's your business not mine, don't care.

Then dont post

 

[Lavawalker]

The fundamental premise of our business since we began in early 2007, which is crucial to our long-term survival, has been that our prices are based on the cost of production of the armour, and nothing else. We then allow market forces to shape the speed of our progress.

It follows that if an armour is so expensive to craft that it's not an attractive deal for Entropians, then it won't sell very well. Likewise, if an armour is so cheap to craft that it's a great deal for Entropians, then it will sell well. Either way, we still give people the opportunity to access rare and expensive crafted armours, if they believe the cost of acquiring it is worthwhile, as happily as we make common and cheap armours available. The primary focus is making as much armour available as possible, for FAIR prices.


A few examples of the ramifications of this mantra:

2) Our business survives because we don't sell for LESS than the crafting cost. Therefore we are able to continue to provide our service into perpetuity. Crafting Bodyguard and selling it for TT, for example, is a shocking business proposition! In fact it's a recipe for bankruptcy, which is something we see happening all too often with other businesses in EU.

3) Selling Ghost for a price based on production cost means that we would be charging massively more than what you can get it for in auction. I certainly wouldn't craft / purchase a piece of armour for TT + 60 or so when I can pick it up at any auction house for TT + 13 or so! Therefore making it available in our shops does nobody a service, which is why we do not sell Ghost, the most popular crafted armour of all time.

4) Lich (L), which we recently released, was released at a price dramatically lower than the historical sales data we were able to find. Just because it's rare, did not mean we wanted to increase the price. We simply charge based on the cost of production. As a result, people can access a very high level of protection for an unprecendentedly low price. We see this as a valuable service to the community and are proud to be able to provide it.

5) In order to be able to buy Pioneer without having to travel to the depths of Hadesheim, and given that we are able to make it available in a more convenient location, we do so. I had no problem in allowing this to happen in our shop because I understand that it's handy to have the option of paying a little extra for convenience.



SFE, fundamentally, is taking the crafting process out of the equation for Entropians, and allowing them to:

• come to the shop and reliably find the finished product
• KNOW they're paying a fair price which is probably less than it would have cost THEM to make it (we have superior access to crafting resources due to running a company based on it)
• CERTAINLY experience far less hassle than self-crafting (which I can say is frequently NOT a doddle!)
• not have to worry about, or spend time on what goes on behind the scenes for it to get there.

We believe this is a valuable service to the community, and this is confirmed for us by the regular new and repeat business that we experience on an ongoing basis.

There are so many good points in your reply that fellow Entropians could definitely learn to take a leaf from out of your book.

Though it is like whipping a dead horse.

It is good to know at least others work to such principles.

I myself work to such principles, in fact I am due to submit a rather large proposal to Frank at some point next week after I can condense it below 35 pages which outline similar principles in business policy, ethics and long-term survival.

You definely have a business model that anyone looking into the long term prospects of setting up business here in Entropia should look into as a case study before they attempt to do so.

You guys at SFE seem like very smart Entropians.


Sparkz

 

[nlnforever]

Then dont post

Then don't comment, because it's my business not yours either. Don't slap yourself when you conflict your interest in your own sentence. What I meant was not about their price policy, but about TT stuff placing in store. So disgusting when you see opalo in auction, the same as pioneer armour in a shop.

What I see most in this thread from SFE and their friends is that they only talk about their superior business model. But they never want to go straight to the point why they put TT stuff in their shop. Just go straight to the point, do you accept the action placing OPALO in auction? Do you accept the action placing settle, pioneer in a store?

Their argument is totally bs when they stated

it's handy to have the option of paying a little extra for convenience

What would be the feeling of buyers when they know the truth where to get Pioneer armour after purchasing them in your store?
What would be the feeling of buyers when they know the truth where to get OPALO after purchasing it in auction?

 

[Lavawalker]

The decision to sell Pioneer in our shop comes from the same purpose as the sale of every other crafted armour we make available: SFE aims to provide as wide a range as possible, from n00b right through to uber, of crafted armours.

5) In order to be able to buy Pioneer without having to travel to the depths of Hadesheim, and given that we are able to make it available in a more convenient location, we do so. I had no problem in allowing this to happen in our shop because I understand that it's handy to have the option of paying a little extra for convenience.

For the record, I see no issue with SFE having pioneer as a stocked item, most happily pay 40 ped to CND and back on multiple occassions in the same day.

Your providing a service of convenience in providing this product, you need to cover your production costs, so it does not take a rocket scientist to work out that this is a more than fair offering at a more than fair price.

I personally do not feel you have to waste your time and energy explaining why you have it as a stocked item, most with a functioning synapse in their void can work this out for themselves.

Take Care and great service SFE,
Sparkz

 

[nlnforever]

A trip travel to CND is totally different from a trip travel to Ithaca to buy Pioneer armour.

I see that I should give up and stop posting. Next time, I hope I could see Settler armour in SFE store (Settler is craftable, in case if you don't know). Then I could see some 'happy customers' give out some comment:

heya, I have bought this amazing settler and pioneer armours set in SFE. I know I could purchase them for TT price. But who cares, I have money to waste, I am lack of knowledge. I was scammed by 'superior persons' so I am happy.

Have you ever wonder why they do not place Settler set in their shop?

 

[Lavawalker]

heya, I have bought this amazing settler and pioneer armours set in SFE. I know I could purchase them for TT price. But who cares, I have money to waste, I am lack of knowledge. I was scammed by 'superior persons' so I am happy.

Why is it that people think they are being scammed if they pay someone more than what they could of got it from somehwere else if they had -

A) Greater acquired Entropia Universe experience.
B) Put the time and effort into travelling to another location
C) Researched things out a little better.

SFE is providing this product as a convenience item.

They are NOT SCAMMING anybody by covering their production costs and store rental cost for item placement by having this item in stock.

Next you will ask them to put up an animated sign that shouts out to them :

Hey you know that pioneer your about to buy,
you can get it from X, Y co-ords at TT

Come on, seriously, wake up to yourself.

Nothing more to say other than your comments are insuating of which the emotional content is displaced in a very unhealthy manner.

You should quit on such lines as the above quoted before others start forming opinions that stick to you long term.

~ Sparkz

 

[ACEwoK]

You Pertharians at SFE seem like very smart fellows


Fellow Aussie,
Sparkz

Cheers mate

Feel free any time to PM us if you want to discuss business models or anything

But they never want to go straight to the point why they put TT stuff in their shop. Just go straight to the point, do you accept the action placing OPALO in auction? Do you accept the action placing settle, pioneer in a store?

The short answer to your question is:

No, we do not accept the action of placing Opalo in auction, or TT purchased Pioneer for that matter. We are not putting TT stuff in our shop.

The long answer is:

You cannot rightly compare Opalo to Pioneer as you cannot craft Opalo's (you are comparing apples and bananas here sorry). Even so, your arguement/question does have a point to it which i will directly answer even though i think it has been answered ad nausium already.

Seeing as we can craft our Pioneer (L and UL) then there is no reason why we can't place it for sale in our shop. If people want to buy it from us then the ethical question is moot.

If we go to the effort to craft stuff then we should have the right to ask for compensation in the form of a mark up and that markup to be used as we see fit (in this case helping provide a broader service).

IF we were buying it from Hades/Ithaca and then selling it in our shops (which we are not), then i would agree that it is unethical as it would be re-selling and we would be guilty of the same crime as the persons buying Opalos from TT and auctioning them.

The crux of the matter, from our point of view, is that we are not re-selling TT armour (which seems to be the insinuation here), we are crafting the stuff ourselves and as such, i believe that the ethical question no longer applies. However, now that we are all aware of the ramifications of Pioneer being available for "TT" price at Hades and Ithaca, then i think we should be making people aware of this in our shops and i will be discussing that with the other directors.

Now a question for you people: Does this also apply to Pioneer L? Can you buy Pioneer L anywhere? To my knowledge, you cannot (at least Entropedia and a trip to Ithaca lead me to believe this) so therefore, does us selling Pioneer L now pose an ethical question?

 

[Lavawalker]

I'm sorry... I just didn't understand this....

Zombie Harness (M,L)
Weekly MU = 115% Your MU = 151.21%

Warrior Harness (M)
Weekly MU = +3.08 Your MU = + 17.41

Dragon Harness (M)
Monthly MU = +50.04 Your MU = + 520.14
(Now I know Dunkel is not cheap.... but WTF????? You really believe Dragon is worth TT+ 1500.00????)

Explorer Harness (M)
Monthly MU = +2.83 Your MU = +14.53
(I craft both Explorer and Warrior for skilling and don't try feeding me this crap of "Never sell lower then it costs for materials" cuz I know exactly what they cost per click... and per success... and trust me... I could get 2 or 3 harnesses for the cost of your markup alone and I'm only lvl 2 armour engineer.)

Rascall (M,L)
Weekly 115% Your MU = 151%

And HOLY CRAP! Vindicator foot guards!!!!!
I bought a pair yesterday at TT+33 PED... and... there's another pair in auction RIGHT NOW for the same markup... You're selling yours at TT+ 133.05!!!!!
Now tell me honestly that there isn't a problem there!

Anyway... I was gonna keep my thoughts to myself... but then I saw your "defence" to your pricing and was forced to call you out on it in all fairness to anyone else who might walk into your shop.

I wish not to offend;

Though at lvl 2, have you really put effort into working out the true price of production of crafted items ?

If your being honest, the answer would be ? No, I would hope.

Let us look at an example.

Killian Swords, click the thumbnail to see the breakdown for 01st of Jan 2009.

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Hopefully,

You have gained experience in your knowledge of crafting production costs.

Great once you get this green message the next step in this costing process is working out the TCO's - Total Cost of Ownership and Total Cost of Operation of your store.

That is correct, you need to pay monthly rental to keep the doors open, you also need to work out a fair percentage division to place upon the TT value of all items which you have projected as your annual TT product turnover volume to assist in recouping over the long term (5yrs +) the store outlet cost and also any furnishing such as Tron Columns which support the display of product and finally the cost of purchasing the Blueprint to produce the item.

I hope I have not lost you in all this yet.

Now for the big part.

Running a viable business is there to provide a return, or at least to break even without the inclusion of the skill value you have acquired as this is part of your trade-tools along with the BPs you have invested clicks in, to improve the production QR.

Hopefully you will now get the message :

You have gained experience in your ability to assess the TCOwnership & TCOperation

The next part is easy, with time and experience you will get a green swirl.

You have gained a profession level in running a viable business that won't send you into the red.

I think that about sums it all up.

Cheers,
Sparkz

 

[Butch C]

I was scammed by 'superior persons' so I am happy.

They are not scammers at all, that's an insult. there selling armour at what it costs them to make? you can probably find plenty of shops selling looted armour for way over markup which to a newcomer who doesnt even know about auctions yet could purchase quite easily and feel ripped off later once they discover auctions.

They dont hide there way of pricing in anyway they explain it on there website, i got off my arse and looked and read.

People arent as stupid as you make them out to be, not many people buy armour without first consulting someone (a friend a soc) or doing a little research themselves.

they are trying to offer all the L & UL armour they can by crafting it, gaining skills and selling for what it costs to make, which will never really reflect the prices on auction as you have desperadoe's sellign armour low or people getting armour at the starbid or a bit higher due to no one buying it at buyout so you cant compare crafted armour costs of a person to that of the same piece of armour on auction.

To me this looks like a simple oversight not a grandeous plan to take over the world by selling Pioneer armour in there shop.

"caveat emptor" - always

 

[nlnforever]

However, now that we are all aware of the ramifications of Pioneer being available for "TT" price at Hades and Ithaca, then i think we should be making people aware of this in our shops and i will be discussing that with the other directors.

This is the answer I am looking for from your side. You should place a 'warning sign' for the pioneer set. If you are serious business in EU, you should do that. I respect your business, that's why I spend time to argue to reach this final answer from you.

It's just like why goverment force cigarette company place: 'Smoking damages your health' on their products. Or the medicine companies must place 'Read description before using' on their products.

If it's only buyers' reponsibilities to do the research, to know the product, why would those companies be forced to do such things?

It's all about ethic in business.

 

[Butch C]

This is the answer I am looking for from your side. You should place a 'warning sign' for the pioneer set. If you are serious business in EU, you should do that. I respect your business, that's why I spend time to argue to reach this final answer from you.

It's just like why goverment force cigarette company place: 'Smoking damages your health' on their products. Or the medicine must place 'Read description before using' on their products.

If it's only buyers' reponsibilities to do the research, to know the product, why would those companies be force to do such things?

It's all about ethic in business.

Ermm id say because you can bloody die from smoking or using the wrong medicine, hardly a good comparison. Not many stores in existence that warn you there prices may be cheaper somewhere else.



Pioneer armour - You may die if you use this on Atrox

difference being you will revive