Player ignores me for asking for 5 ped discount

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There is a fine line between cheap and being economical, it should be okay to negotiate deals since it is an RCE.

The other day, however, I saw a player claiming that he "was buying any paint for 101% MU", because he was just "gonna use it for skilling".
That is cheap. And if we who are playing this game want Entropia to survive, we must have at least some respect for the games market and not try
to undercut everything and do stuff like that.
 

ProActive Mango

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Or in other words, some cultures are used to rip off people by asking to much to start with. If you don't haggle there you'll be totally ripped off.
We're not used to that here.
Or, prices are fair from the start and ppl trust eachother instead of ripping everyone off.
I know, trust is not worth much these days.
 

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Or, prices are fair from the start and ppl trust eachother instead of ripping everyone off.
I know, trust is not worth much these days.
So, I walk on a market somewhere in North Africa.

I want to buy a nice carpet. Seller ask 100$.
I offer him 10$. And eventually haggle to 35$.

In my culture the seller would be total a scammer, asking way to much.
In his culture the buyer would be a total idiot for paying 100$.

As I said. It's a cultural thingy.
 

Mika

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So, I walk on a market somewhere in North Africa.

I want to buy a nice carpet. Seller ask 100$.
I offer him 10$. And eventually haggle to 35$.

In my culture the seller would be total a scammer, asking way to much.
In his culture the buyer would be a total idiot for paying 100$.

As I said. It's a cultural thingy.

in this example case, yes. but in OPs case, aboslutely not.


A102 MU is +160... (it was 155 at OP's posting time originally) Guy was selling it on auction for +145... trader being a greedy bastard like they are wanted to make a few extra peds ontop of already potential MU and asked for a discount on a already heavily discounted item...

That is not haggling, that is called being a greedy sod. which is a big difference. One is cultura, the other is just being a dick.

Translate that to the carpet scenario, mr etiphoian would likely laugh at you and chase you off with a machete for litterally trying to steal. which would still be a cultural thing i guess since thiefs still get the old "hand chop chop" treatment for stealing ;) So are you suggesting that instead of ignoring, he should have lost his hand or i'm confused :p



so yes, haggling is a part of many cultures, as prices are often priced way to high, and in cases of tourism even more so. But this is not, this is EU where we can litterally all see that OP is crying because he COULD have gotten a super discount, resold the item which he likely would, and probably did anyways seeing that he is a trader... ) but he cries because someone got pissed when asking for a even BIGGER discount on a item already listed way under its MU. it is litterally as far away from a cultural thing as you can possibly get.

edit: 102 not 105
 
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Legends

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in this example case, yes. but in OPs case, aboslutely not.


A102 MU is +160... (it was 155 at OP's posting time originally) ...
Stop you right there. According to who? Why do you say the mu is +160? Based on what? The last sale? The weekly? Monthly? Yearly...? This is a very subjective thing imo.

I have people contact me who have armor for sale, to give an example, they have Mayhem armor to sell, right before Mayhem starts. That's usually when the price is the highest on auction because of scarcity. So naturally, they want me to pay the weekly mu... No way Jose, I'd be an idiot to pay that, because in a week or so, price will be back down to more normal levels.

I hate when people say "The mu is..." What do you mean!? What are you saying??? What you're really saying is "Based on what I am looking at, I FEEL the mu is 'blah'" Well let me tell you something, what you FEEL and what I FEEL can and often ARE very different things my friend.


so yes, haggling is a part of many cultures, as prices are often priced way to high, and in cases of tourism even more so. But this is not, this is EU where we can litterally all see that OP is crying because he COULD have gotten a super discount, resold the item which he likely would, and probably did anyways seeing that he is a trader... ) but he cries because someone got pissed when asking for a even BIGGER discount on a item already listed way under its MU. it is litterally as far away from a cultural thing as you can possibly get.

edit: 102 not 105

#1 Avalon is not 'crying', he is just commenting on the shear absurdity of this guy 'ignoring' him in game for such a trivial thing. That's not crying, that's remarking, pointing out an absurdity. All Avalon was doing was asking a question, that's it.

#2 I don't consider Avalon a trader, most of his time goes towards actual game play and he has done a lot of streaming and organizing activities in game. A trader to me is someone that spends most of his time buying and selling, almost to the exclusion of all other game activities. I would add that everybody in Entropia needs to find ways to make a little profit here and there in the game, otherwise it's not sustainable, so hunters hunt for mu for example, who do you think those hunters get that mu from? Does that make them traders? If yes then everyone in Entropia is a trader.

#3 There's nothing wrong with paying less then market value for an item, I just bought an amp from a soc member roughly 200-300 ped under "mu", the deal was good for him cause the amp hadn't sold on auction and he didn't want to risk it not selling again (cost him 35 ped to list the first time) and I saw enough margin there for me to turn around and make a little profit by selling in the shop. This kind of deal happens ALL THE TIME, deal with it man.
 
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Stop you right there. According to who? Why do you say the mu is +160? Based on what? The last sale? The weekly? Monthly? Yearly...? This is a very subjective thing imo.

I have people contact me who have armor for sale, to give an example, they have Mayhem armor to sell, right before Mayhem starts. That's usually when the price is the highest on auction because of scarcity. So naturally, they want me to pay the weekly mu... No way Jose, I'd be an idiot to pay that, because in a week or so, price will be back down to more normal levels.

I hate when people say "The mu is..." What do you mean!? What are you saying??? What you're really saying is "Based on what I am looking at, I FEEL the mu is 'blah'" Well let me tell you something, what you FEEL and what I FEEL can and often ARE very different things my friend.




#1 Avalon is not 'crying', he is just commenting on the shear absurdity of this guy 'ignoring' him in game for such a trivial thing. That's not crying, that's remarking, pointing out an absurdity. All Avalon was doing was asking a question, that's it.

#2 I don't consider Avalon a trader, most of his time goes towards actual game play and he has done a lot of streaming and organizing activities in game. A trader to me is someone that spends most of his time buying and selling, almost to the exclusion of all other game activities. I would add that everybody in Entropia needs to find ways to make a little profit here and there in the game, otherwise it's not sustainable, so hunters hunt for mu for example, who do you think those hunters get that mu from? Does that make them traders? If yes then everyone in Entropia is a trader.

#3 There's nothing wrong with paying less then market value for an item, I just bought an amp from a soc member roughly 200-300 ped under "mu", the deal was good for him cause the amp hadn't sold on auction and he didn't want to risk it not selling again (cost him 35 ped to list the first time) and I saw enough margin there for me to turn around and make a little profit by selling in the shop. This kind of deal happens ALL THE TIME, deal with it man.
I really like all the people who said "Why would you pm someone when their item is on the AH, when he stated multiple times the conversation happened before he even checked the AH
 

MrBabul

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I really like all the people who said "Why would you pm someone when their item is on the AH, when he stated multiple times the conversation happened before he even checked the AH
Right? Also that seller was spaming trade an wave channels for whole day :) I dont know Avalon personaly but i deff wouldnt call him reseler
 
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Right? Also that seller was spaming trade an wave channels for whole day :) I dont know Avalon personaly but i deff wouldnt call him reseler
Nah he's like me. He's going to try and get the best price he can. It never hurts to ask "normally" unless the person your dealing with woke up on the wrong side of their floor
 

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Stop you right there. According to who? Why do you say the mu is +160? Based on what? The last sale? The weekly? Monthly? Yearly...? This is a very subjective thing imo.

I have people contact me who have armor for sale, to give an example, they have Mayhem armor to sell, right before Mayhem starts. That's usually when the price is the highest on auction because of scarcity. So naturally, they want me to pay the weekly mu... No way Jose, I'd be an idiot to pay that, because in a week or so, price will be back down to more normal levels.

I hate when people say "The mu is..." What do you mean!? What are you saying??? What you're really saying is "Based on what I am looking at, I FEEL the mu is 'blah'" Well let me tell you something, what you FEEL and what I FEEL can and often ARE very different things my friend.

Noted to not buy from you as you make numbers and MU up depending on what way the wind hits your hair on that particular day then. Which is not what you meant, but Joking aside, daily weekly and monthly MU is a pretty given thing to go by especially for higher volume items, while its not the highest of volumes going through in this post sinec its the A102 it had a daily last time i looked but has since gone past the 24H mark so its now "weekly", the daily was 159.xx something I simply rounded up to 160, and the weekly is still over 160 and monthly almost at 170 (rounded up to nearest whole number without .xx)

What does this mean? Well it means that anyone, including the angry ignoring guy, can see these things and assume they can aim at making as much. Why he however had it on auction for as low as he did who knows, but the numbers mean that is what people will at least aim to get.

Obviously does not work for items that sell rarely, such as a lot of weapons, or armors especially, but also other rarely seen items, prices there range from being overpriced, to underpriced and. and so many factors counter in that it is very much subjective like you said. It purely depends on how much someone wants something, how rare is it? is it a collectors piece? is it a highly saught after item that can and will pull a lot of numbers or bidwars if people knew? list goes on.

But in the A102's case, its neither rare, or sells rarely. it sells daily and weekly, and in monthly accumulates more than enough sales to gauge a non subjective value to look at. So no, its not according to anything more than looking at the quite decent amount of sales it has had ingame. using the same tools we all have available.


#1 Avalon is not 'crying', he is just commenting on the shear absurdity of this guy 'ignoring' him in game for such a trivial thing. That's not crying, that's remarking, pointing out an absurdity. All Avalon was doing was asking a question, that's it.

#2 I don't consider Avalon a trader, most of his time goes towards actual game play and he has done a lot of streaming and organizing activities in game. A trader to me is someone that spends most of his time buying and selling, almost to the exclusion of all other game activities. I would add that everybody in Entropia needs to find ways to make a little profit here and there in the game, otherwise it's not sustainable, so hunters hunt for mu for example, who do you think those hunters get that mu from? Does that make them traders? If yes then everyone in Entropia is a trader.

#3 There's nothing wrong with paying less then market value for an item, I just bought an amp from a soc member roughly 200-300 ped under "mu", the deal was good for him cause the amp hadn't sold on auction and he didn't want to risk it not selling again (cost him 35 ped to list the first time) and I saw enough margin there for me to turn around and make a little profit by selling in the shop. This kind of deal happens ALL THE TIME, deal with it man.

1. I do not think you know what it means when someone says "Crying". A more accurate term would be, "talk about in a confused matter" or "bewildered" Or poinint out the absurdity like you said. It has been a fairly common internet slang to say someone is crying when they point out something that is pretty much a given that they are not completely correct. You're crying about me posting something you dont fully understand and thus are not correct about, I'm now crying to you because i am wrong about something and you know it.. You get the drift, nothing more nothing less.

2. Yes, a trader is someone who largely only does buy and resell. hence my prior joke of "will offer you 1 ped and in the same breath resell for 1000". I know avalon is not that. While i too know avalon, does not do it as bad as others. He is the reason that when i now see someone buying items i know he has flipped, and i know traders often do flip, i will give them a poke and give them pointers of what the item they are looking to buy tends to go for, what will make a item be worth a little over what it tends to sell for (based on ingame prices, as well as just simple research to see what people ask for items and what seems to sell and what does not), what will make them able to bargain for a lower price, etc. And that if they have patience they can save several hundred if not a thousand or more peds...

3. you can't compare selling a item for several hundreds under MU to a friend as a realistic scenario anyone could ever expect from a stranger. I've helped friends too selling stuff under MU, but that is something I would do purely for a friend, and i would never do that to a person i do not know. I know it happens all the time, and i respect that people, and traders play the game the way they do. I just dont like to see when they take advantage of people who don't know better. someone i know, bought a Zero Three for 4k and thought they had gotten a good deal, for example. Which it obviously isnt. Cudos to the trader, but that is the kind of stuff that makes my skin crawl and makes me, like i said, give people pointers free of charge so that they perhaps don't fall for trader traps. Just to calm you, I've not specifically seen avalon set trader traps, but he did try to lure me when i was looking for a item... I can respect the opertunistic approach, i have nothing against it more than not liking it. And hey, its ok to not like something, try to do something against it without being a dick. So i poke people who say wtb, perhaps i get to them before trade traps do, perhaps not.

I really like all the people who said "Why would you pm someone when their item is on the AH, when he stated multiple times the conversation happened before he even checked the AH

Avalon did not state he PMed him AFTER it was deliberately put on auction, rather just indicated it was on auction, unkown to him at the time he PMed the guy.

The talk at least in most terms to what i've replied, has not been all that aimed at after or before as aimed just at the numbers themselves. As well as the sort of odd way to handle it from mr aggro (who clearly woke up and stepped in cow shit) and avalon (who should realize gross undercuts no matter if you know or not if mr aggro already discounted it, can make people annoyed) :p
 

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in this example case, yes. but in OPs case, aboslutely not.


A102 MU is +160... (it was 155 at OP's posting time originally) Guy was selling it on auction for +145... trader being a greedy bastard like they are wanted to make a few extra peds ontop of already potential MU and asked for a discount on a already heavily discounted item...

That is not haggling, that is called being a greedy sod. which is a big difference. One is cultura, the other is just being a dick.

Translate that to the carpet scenario, mr etiphoian would likely laugh at you and chase you off with a machete for litterally trying to steal. which would still be a cultural thing i guess since thiefs still get the old "hand chop chop" treatment for stealing ;) So are you suggesting that instead of ignoring, he should have lost his hand or i'm confused :p



so yes, haggling is a part of many cultures, as prices are often priced way to high, and in cases of tourism even more so. But this is not, this is EU where we can litterally all see that OP is crying because he COULD have gotten a super discount, resold the item which he likely would, and probably did anyways seeing that he is a trader... ) but he cries because someone got pissed when asking for a even BIGGER discount on a item already listed way under its MU. it is litterally as far away from a cultural thing as you can possibly get.

edit: 102 not 105
Which culture-independent criteria do you use to draw the line between haggling and being a greedy sod? Ackerman Bargaining for example, defined in former professional FBI hostage negotiator Christopher Voss's book Never Split the Difference, prescribes an approach to haggling in which the buyer's initial offer should be 65% of his or her target price. How would you criticize someone for using Ackerman Bargining without appealing to any cultural particulars of Entropia?
 

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You could pm a guy who's offering to sell in trade chat to try to get the price down.
But. this is an auction on the official AH. If you don't want to buy don't buy. But don't pm people who have stuff on auction. They set their price to whatever they want, and you can buy it at that price. He payed the auction fee etc. I consider it rude if people pm me about stuff I have on auction.
 

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You could pm a guy who's offering to sell in trade chat to try to get the price down.
But. this is an auction on the official AH. If you don't want to buy don't buy. But don't pm people who have stuff on auction. They set their price to whatever they want, and you can buy it at that price. He payed the auction fee etc. I consider it rude if people pm me about stuff I have on auction.

It wasn't at the time, maybe I shouldn't have published the graphic like that as it seems to mislead.
 

aVaLON_52

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I'm not sure what you mean by lost time. If a player takes offense from slight barter it's probably best if he ignores me. Most people are pleasant when it come to bartering; I think it's quite normal. Haggling is different, which I'm not a fan of.
 

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Weirder thing is to open thread on forum because you got ignored by someone :D
 

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But don't pm people who have stuff on auction. They set their price to whatever they want, and you can buy it at that price. He payed the auction fee etc. I consider it rude if people pm me about stuff I have on auction.
I can understand why some players dislike receiving such offers. The problem is that this proposal would also discourage many offers which are welcome. Personally, I prefer to receive offers on my expiring auction items (and I can always set privacy settings when I don't), and find it unfortunate that many may never reach my inbox because would-be senders previously got yelled at/ignored/told that they violated some objective moral boundary by making an offer for an item. It is not necessarily accurate that I still value an item at the price I listed it at the end of the listing period, because my valuation afterward is conditioned on the additional information that the item I expected to sell in fact did not.

I have also sent offers to other players for items in scenarios where I felt it made sense, and this has usually resulted in mutually-constructive deals. For example, if a player lists a crafted item for 10 PED, I don't see anything wrong with asking if they have more copies to sell for 10 PED minus auction fee, as they would have had to list them separately otherwise.
 

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Which culture-independent criteria do you use to draw the line between haggling and being a greedy sod? Ackerman Bargaining for example, defined in former professional FBI hostage negotiator Christopher Voss's book Never Split the Difference, prescribes an approach to haggling in which the buyer's initial offer should be 65% of his or her target price. How would you criticize someone for using Ackerman Bargining without appealing to any cultural particulars of Entropia?

No idea who that is.

But generally speaking i'd say the line to draw if any is simply down to having social antennas. Just realizing that there are a lot of countries out there, even if the majority has a culture where haggling prices is ok, in most of the western world (where you'll mostly also find gamers playing online games) its arguably not.

So rather than falling back on finding reasons to call it ok, why not just fall back on the norm of human decency and understanding of basic stuff? :p

I've said in a earlier reply though that the seller, could obviously give a more appropriate answer as well. from an outside perspective it just looks like someone wanting a great reseller deal (fair enough) but the communication from either end and intentions got shot to hell, and here we are having a discussion where only one part is allowed to part take as the seller (albeit without name) has been targeted without being able to say their say. We, the third party should really not even be involved in this, which is where i mainly feel avalon is wrong. He should realize people can get annoyed at the way he himself asked, and move on.


Hell just look at mine and legends dicussing it back and forth too, kinda silly for us, observes to get so invested and interested in a topic we really should not even be involved in as its moot from the start xD
 
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