Suggestion: Please allow Shopkeepers to buy goods/resources

Ivo Jahrumble

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or find a way to let people sell to NPCs using the same concept banks can make loans with the bankteller.

The discussion started here.

Its really hard to cycle small amounts in game. Most players get stuck with no peds and lots of resources they have to stack up to at least 100 ped to make AH a thing worth using.

There is a shortage in decent traders, most of the msgs in the trade channels in WTS not WTB. If people had places to "dump" their 57ped stacks / 33.56 stacks in a shopkeeper that buys stuff ( shop owner charges the shopkeeper with peds to pay and sets MU% to buy ) - even if the seller pays the trading fee on any LA/mall as if it was buying.

Why not provide ways for people to get rid of their stuff quicker allowing for more ped cycle? A newcomer will quit after realizing they have to invest part of their house to be able to have enough 100ped stacks to be able to survive. If there is no way to help out the less "richer" players to cycle peds they will log in less and less.

A player with less than 5kped budget will have longer cooldown period after they cycle their ped and put all the worthy things in AH much longer than a player with 10k or 20k budget. The 10k will "always" have spare ped to keep hunting/mining. The small guy get stuck with things on AU and logs off for a week until things are sold. Wonder what the small guy would do if he could trade really quick those smaller parts of his loot...
 

golddude

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I agree with this. As stated in the previous post from your quote, The AH is broken.
 

Ivo Jahrumble

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I agree with this. As stated in the previous post from your quote, The AH is broken.
Agreed! It completely chokes the new players with high taxation for sales and very high MU% for buys of weapons/tools that are entry level, that for big players are tt food since they are untradeable in AH.
 

Athal

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I agree with this idea totally! It would be fantastic!
 

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Requested many times already but yes, still needed, for multiple reasons
 

FireFist

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or find a way to let people sell to NPCs using the same concept banks can make loans with the bankteller.

The discussion started here.

Its really hard to cycle small amounts in game. Most players get stuck with no peds and lots of resources they have to stack up to at least 100 ped to make AH a thing worth using.

There is a shortage in decent traders, most of the msgs in the trade channels in WTS not WTB. If people had places to "dump" their 57ped stacks / 33.56 stacks in a shopkeeper that buys stuff ( shop owner charges the shopkeeper with peds to pay and sets MU% to buy ) - even if the seller pays the trading fee on any LA/mall as if it was buying.

Why not provide ways for people to get rid of their stuff quicker allowing for more ped cycle? A newcomer will quit after realizing they have to invest part of their house to be able to have enough 100ped stacks to be able to survive. If there is no way to help out the less "richer" players to cycle peds they will log in less and less.

A player with less than 5kped budget will have longer cooldown period after they cycle their ped and put all the worthy things in AH much longer than a player with 10k or 20k budget. The 10k will "always" have spare ped to keep hunting/mining. The small guy get stuck with things on AU and logs off for a week until things are sold. Wonder what the small guy would do if he could trade really quick those smaller parts of his loot...
I agree! though idk if MA would do this due to them losing the amount that gets TT'd? though idk if thats a concern of theirs or not. But, it would be nice to goto a convenient SK that you could dumb ur loot into it sort out w/e it buys and tells you what you get. instead of trying to find a trader or spam in the abyss of the trade chat lol
 

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that "wholesaler" if owned by a whale would kill the Ah... hard to see it implemented

i am still on a fixed percent fee in ah on the TT value of the TRADED amount
with MA getting NO fee on the MU (at the moment the higher the mu the more is the AH fee)
and ofc no minimum fee
and no initial "publishing fee" for Ah
and 2 decimal points

so an offer of just "10 inferior cloth extractor" can be inserted as weli

in my dreams there is a centralized AH that incluide all planets ( a junior programmer can do it)

and no delivery fee and storage accessible from ANY point (u know whan you note that the
item you miss is in caly and you are in NI ? or you browse the local AH to find it empty like
a war zone mall?
 

Ivo Jahrumble

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-"that "wholesaler" if owned by a whale would kill the Ah... hard to see it implemented" - not really. consider several shopkeepers not a single wholesaler. shopkeepers have limit of item/resources carried. and im preeeety sure traders would not let go of an auction bargain to sell to a shopkeeper. same way as if a store has a resellable item it will be snatched in no time. it would on the other hand bring competition to the AH and I believe MA does not really want that. taxing preety much 1/2 to 3/4 of all trades in game seems a good deal to me :p Im sure it would not bring prices down.

You are not wrong, but this entropia not utopia. A complete rework of the AH is needed in order for the game to have better player retention. But if I left for ten years, this was something already asked at the time, and they didnt change either the AH or created alternatives Im guessing they either dont listen or dont want to go this way.

"in my dreams there is a centralized AH that incluide all planets ( a junior programmer can do it)"

Its not they dont know how, they dont want to. Any changes that hurts their return is not welcome. But considering that MA already has their hands or part of their hands in everything we do in entropia. Letting go of some return from the AH to allow the game economy to flow better at the low end especially would be very welcome by the playerbase.

I would like to see this change to shopkeepers as the banktellers dont have any good or even realistic offers on loans ( the usage of the banks is really bad to what it could be, I used to "abuse" ND bank at my peak volume doubling the amount of peds avaliable by pawning for a short time to get a trade/run made, good times :) ) and it would create competition with AH as well as allow small fish to drop their loot quicker and cycle their little peds faster.

Providing alternatives like this seems to me more realistic than hoping MA will go with anything along with your dream.

Entropia is not that different from real world. The small percentage is still the big boys and the big percentage is the small fish.

I joke with my friends about this game with a Tenacious D quote: This is the greatest game in world... tribute
 

INTERNUT

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This is what I call lateral thinking. Great idea!
 
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TheOneOmega

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I haven't taken the time to think about all the higher order effects yet, but at first glace, this sounds like one of the best concepts for Entropia I've come across. The seller liquidity thing genuinely is a huge issue. The best I had was the idea to remove auction order fees, but this seems much better.
 

mastermesh

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just add the functionality to mannequin pads. Also allow both type of pads to sell items they are wearing are or equipped with as well.
 

TontonX

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find a way to let people sell to NPCs
I'd love that! (and your shopkeeper idea)

in my dreams there is a centralized AH that includes all planets
As i am on Next island since 2 weeks i can definitely see the benefit of this as well :clap: (scarce offers compared to crowded planets)
 

INTERNUT

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This is probably obvious, but the offer price for items would o.c have to be higher than the TT value, so something nearer to current market values.
 

mastermesh

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This is probably obvious, but the offer price for items would o.c have to be higher than the TT value, so something nearer to current market values.
shopkeeper minimum sell price is tt+1.02 (tt+1 plus 2 pec tax). Shopkeepers decay 10 pec per sale...

Maybe minimum could be tt+.27 with 2 pec tax so minimum could allow for shopowner buyer/seller to actually make something, even if it isn't much.
 

INTERNUT

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shopkeeper minimum sell price is tt+1.02 (tt+1 plus 2 pec tax). Shopkeepers decay 10 pec per sale...

Maybe minimum could be tt+.27 with 2 pec tax so minimum could allow for shopowner buyer/seller to actually make something, even if it isn't much.
As long as it's more than the TT value, but not so much more that it would be difficult for the shopkeeper owner to resell, then it should work.
 

jetsina

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The infamous @boxes prices used to be fine on the whole I thought - acceptable for both buyers and sellers. But there was usually a bit more market markup to split between the two participants. Why did trading die out, or is it still alive at Twin still?
 

INTERNUT

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What's @boxes prices? Sry, I'm still new to EU.
 

jetsina

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What's @boxes prices? Sry, I'm still new to EU.
There used to be a place at Port Atlantis (PA) where people would trade smaller volumes of mats to people working for large-volume buyers. (At)boxes was the most common location within the old PA walls for people to shout out buying/selling in local chat.
Low-volume loots such as paint cans and hair spray were needed by people specialising in professions. Noobs didn't need to wait to have large stacks and could thus sell "short stacks" to the buyers. In those days sweat also had a good price, so it was like going to market to sell off what you had swunted (sweat-hunted).
 

Ivo Jahrumble

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Yes, that @boxes vibe was preety cool. Getting hit randomly with a body flying out fo the ring and all the fuss going about Twins was a lot more fun than current twins. Even the PA was.

Fast forward to current days: Maybe they could create around a tp what works like a flea market. A selling spot for the small fish, with little plots to be rented for 1/2/3 days. People could leave the loot there to sell and go about hunting/mining again.
Also had functionality to rent shops/shopkeepers between p2p (altough id say the renting price for a shop would still be too steep for most low/mid lvl players) so that shopowners dont feel cheated and can get some ROI of theirs shops, you know like in real life where deep pockets buy stuff and then rent it (isnt entropia ESTATES and unL items run like that already, but without the many funcionalitys that could make this game a lot better?

This game can become very addicting to play. It should not take a 5k$ price tag to be able to sell stuff offline other than in AH. Those steep prices and mega ubers with items costing more than a cool car are very demoralizing for the guy that just came in. He will say " I will never get anywhere near that level" and fuck off to another game.
We ( the players that want the game to grow ) and MA need to find ways to bring and retain new players and also find ways to make the economy move. New activitys and professions that promote use of L items are a good starting point, activitys outside the lootpool that are someway of pvp (entry fee and prizepool) Races/1v1 ring tournaments/10vs10 or even BR alike events <- these i think MA expected LA owners to work on it but i dont see anything happening, so they could start off by setting up a few events for LA owners to learn how and with some kind of prize on top for the winner besides taking all ammo+decay burn and prizepool).
If I was just starting I would join a game with a grown economy that gives me some kind of chance to compete from the start in fun ways. If its just steep walls I will leave in no time, kinda like joining EVE online present day without knowing anything about it. But I digress...

Hopefully MA pays some attention and gets on track with player recruit. The base is laid for this great game.
 

INTERNUT

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There used to be a place at Port Atlantis (PA) where people would trade smaller volumes of mats to people working for large-volume buyers. (At)boxes was the most common location within the old PA walls for people to shout out buying/selling in local chat.
Low-volume loots such as paint cans and hair spray were needed by people specialising in professions. Noobs didn't need to wait to have large stacks and could thus sell "short stacks" to the buyers. In those days sweat also had a good price, so it was like going to market to sell off what you had swunted (sweat-hunted).
Right, so PA used to be a main PvP trade area. Shame there's nothing like that now going on there.
 

INTERNUT

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Yes, that @boxes vibe was preety cool. Getting hit randomly with a body flying out fo the ring and all the fuss going about Twins was a lot more fun than current twins. Even the PA was.

Fast forward to current days: Maybe they could create around a tp what works like a flea market. A selling spot for the small fish, with little plots to be rented for 1/2/3 days. People could leave the loot there to sell and go about hunting/mining again.
Also had functionality to rent shops/shopkeepers between p2p (altough id say the renting price for a shop would still be too steep for most low/mid lvl players) so that shopowners dont feel cheated and can get some ROI of theirs shops, you know like in real life where deep pockets buy stuff and then rent it (isnt entropia ESTATES and unL items run like that already, but without the many funcionalitys that could make this game a lot better?

This game can become very addicting to play. It should not take a 5k$ price tag to be able to sell stuff offline other than in AH. Those steep prices and mega ubers with items costing more than a cool car are very demoralizing for the guy that just came in. He will say " I will never get anywhere near that level" and fuck off to another game.
We ( the players that want the game to grow ) and MA need to find ways to bring and retain new players and also find ways to make the economy move. New activitys and professions that promote use of L items are a good starting point, activitys outside the lootpool that are someway of pvp (entry fee and prizepool) Races/1v1 ring tournaments/10vs10 or even BR alike events <- these i think MA expected LA owners to work on it but i dont see anything happening, so they could start off by setting up a few events for LA owners to learn how and with some kind of prize on top for the winner besides taking all ammo+decay burn and prizepool).
If I was just starting I would join a game with a grown economy that gives me some kind of chance to compete from the start in fun ways. If its just steep walls I will leave in no time, kinda like joining EVE online present day without knowing anything about it. But I digress...

Hopefully MA pays some attention and gets on track with player recruit. The base is laid for this great game.
I can identify with a lot of this even though I've not played that long yet... I'm also getting the increasing impression that there's not enough affordable means of selling for the small trader, so like the idea of small plots you can rent for a short while. Current shop or market stall prices, even shopkeeper pad prices are too much given the size of the player base...
 

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" or find a way to let people sell to NPCs using the same concept banks can make loans with the bankteller "
I don't know how difficult it is to create and implement such new NPCs or Shopkeeper features, but I totally agree.
Trade Terminal can TT → Auction House can Orders → Bank have their pawnshop system → so why not letting players having personnal buyer NPCs indeed.

Automatized buying interactions can only be helpfull to every players (sellers and buyers)

Imagine if Land Owners can construct houses, buildings, roads, bridges etc.. on their lands, place the ghost shapes of the constructions and if they want,
to let players contribute to the construction.

For example if a land owner wants to construct a Lysterium Road path on his field.
To be fully constructed the road requieres , let's say...10M lysterium ingots worth 30K ped TT.
The land owner places the shadow of road, and set prices, exactly same as how it works in ordering, and put the markup price he wants to pay.
Then any players who has Lysterium Ingot will be able to come at any time and sell/place it instantly to the construction.
 

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Here is to hoping the AH gets an overhaul with the new engine, tho i doubt functionally much will change.

On principle, ill say +1 to this but i think some higher level consequences might make this problematic.

Just fyi tho, unless youre a 100k+/month turnover guy, actually selling small stacks is more profitable on auction sometimes. Yes, muscle oil is tt food for 20k ped stacks (or 100.3% or what ever the usual order is) but stacks of 50 ped might sell for 120% or something. I made that example up cuz i cant check auction for the real item/price/numbers, but you get the gist of it. Maybe knowing/checking this can help some small time hunters? Also you could check what your small stacks of enhancers and what not are used for on the wiki, find someone crafting that and sell directly. Back when i started, some nice crafters where always happy to help out some noob by buying 34.34 ped worth of stuff, if i wasnt annoying them too much :hammer:

Cheers
 

jetsina

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One of the big problems low-turnover people have is dealing with system scales. On the AH, the minimum you can sell a stack of 10 peds for is 11 peds, and the fee is 55 pecs. Often you can't even sell at that 10% mu, just to make 5% yourself after the fee.
The old expression of cutting out the middleman was turned almost on its head. Please DO visit the middleman who will offer you 5%, because at least that way your trade is guaranteed, unlike an auction listing. Yes, crafters might indeed give you 1% on even the most abundant of stuff - 34.34, ok!
There are many small ways that p2p trading could be revitalised and I don't think a player shopkeeper pad with purchasing functions would be in any way difficult to accomplish. There could even be icons, bright to faded above such a shopkeeper to show the currentness of the owner's last update to it. There might be a dozen of them in a small group - people would quickly get used to who was worth 'talking to'.
By all means include a small fee, but don't freeze out trades by sticking to the 1 ped minimum markup - allow sales in both directions at percentage prices, please. That might also be an idea for shop prices in general, I think.
 

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Im neutral on the shopkeeper idea. At the moment you have traders that actually have to do some work to make a pec here and there. With shopkeepers these interactions and options would be limited or eliminated. Not sure that would be good.

Auction should not be changed. It has been that way since I began and I never had an issue with it. I understand that new generation is lazy and wants everything fast but lets not change everything just because of that. There have already been far too many not so good changes towards lazy people.
 

jetsina

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It's an interesting point of view about laziness, which I have put off for a few hours - but not due to laziness ;)!

For any game to be successful, what is the range of required inputs and outputs for enjoyment, which is likely to be one of the foremost criteria? The desire for instant gratification is often said to be growing, and smothering a perceived greater gratification from harder-earned rewards.
EU can hardly be said to be an environment of quick bells and whistles, however. Quite the opposite, almost!

I guess I consider the auction system to be pig-headed by the insistance on the 1 ped minimum. If it helped, via its inefficiency, to promote real-live-trader markets, then fine, but those days seem to be gone, leaving a gap and a poor service for newer players.

Maybe the geographical trade zone chat has given way to trade channels that I don't frequent, but I would like people to have their own 'channels' (i.e. shopkeepers) where they can do business more quietly and independently than annoyingly spamming. Maybe a human element would involve the seller/buyer approving a trade request from whichever trading post, with a timer similar to accepting a friend request etc.

On a side note, I am currently getting so many sign bps that I'm wondering what the heck we are supposed to do with them! Maybe we will put them up beside trader pets we can train up soon, informing people of when the pet is likely to be active for deals and acceptance clicks, or whatever... ;)
 
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