Please give me my USD 55'976$ Back!

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Akoz

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Dear MindArk

I have been actively participating and investing in Entropia for 15 years. Through that time Entropia has gone through immense changes. CEOs has come and gone. The landscape has literally transformed several times. As an investor this definitely makes Entropia highly challenging and unpredictable to invest in. In August 2009 the implementation of a new graphics engine prompted you to recreate the whole Amethera map including all of my properties. Parts of the terrain were completely broken - as would be expected in any huge rewrite and remodeling like this. Thankfully you openly discussed these issues with me though. Although we didn't agree on everything you managed to somewhat amend the new situation by removing the worst design glitches and bugs that were most likely to affect players.

This summer you once again redesigned the terrain. This time there were no underlying issue like change of graphics engine to push for it. Further more the redesign seems very targeted and highly discriminating. My most prized possession - Outback Land 16 (Nea's place) which recently were valued over USD 100'000$ was converted from a top grade hunting area to a B- or C- grade area by the introduction of numerous high hills scattered throughout the landscape. This was not done in other locations with Ambulimax mobs, and as a consequence it has largely devalued this area. As DNAs and the shopping container are unmovable it is also not possible to reestablish this business elsewhere.



Naturally I flagged this issue through the proper support channels in June, and your support team told me to contact the team responsible directly through email, which I promptly did. I have thereafter repeatedly tried to contact you through phone, email and support cases. So far not a single request has been answered. It is less than two months since your CEO Henrik Nel reiterated the focus on communication between MindArk and the participants of Entropia Universe. We are now closing in on 5 months without a reply. Needless to say I find this situation highly disturbing.


To visualize the effect of your changes I would like to make an exception to my no-share rule, and share my income for the affected LA for the months leading up to and after the fact.

The last 12 months before the update the LA brought in a total of 108482.30 PED.
The last 3 months before the update the income was 27870.63 PED.
The 3 first months after the update the income was 16314.92 PED.



A relative reduction of over 40 %.

So what does that mean for market value?

The 1 year income for CLD is currently 160 PED. That means you would need 681.85 CLDs to match the pre-patch income for this LA. With a CLD value of say 1980 PED per CLD that puts the pre-patch LA value of 1350000 PED.
Compare that to the post-patch numbers and the LA just lost between 537905-559762 PED value, depending on whether you compare to the 3 or 12 month period. In other words well above USD 50'000 $.

Naturally land area income varies, and there are many other factors than topology that affects it. I would however like to point out that when comparing with income for OLA 16 for last year, it was actually higher in the fall months than spring, which means the seasonal events (like eomon) did not cause net negative impacts last year. The total Calypso turnover also went up in the period (Based off CLD payouts) which means this is generally not a "low-period". Further more participant-held events has been generally comparable.


Entropia is dynamic and you(MindArk) need to have the possibility to keep improving it. However I think you also need to respect the fact that people have real money tied up in this game and that every change you make can potentially have enormous financial impact. What is worse though is not picking up the phone, replying to support cases and replying to emails. I do not understand how I can encourage anyone else to invest in an environment like that.
 

jambon

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While I can totally understand your frustration and thank you for sharing that data (who knew land areas could be so profitable) I think it's hard to pin the decline in your profits on just geography changes on your land without seeing all the data....


  • Have other ambu land areas seen a decline too?
  • More importantly, have they seen an increase that matches your reduced profit?
  • Have you factored in other things that could be affecting your earnings?

As part of the last one these followup questions come to mind:


  • Perhaps people aren't hunting ambu's as much lately due to poor returns on ambu's in general? What are hunters saying about their ambu hunts? Would some polls make sense to get their input?
  • How much has the migration of sweaters from Nea's to LA42 affected how much people are hunting there? How many mobs that are dry are actually killed rather than dragged to a turret? How much does that contribute to your taxes?
  • Have you considered how FEN is affecting your returns right now with people looking for platinums on lvl50+ mobs? Have you considered ramping up the maturity during the event (are ambu stalkers lvl50? Maybe too late for this though anyways)
  • Have you considered that people are becoming more conscientious about hunting on taxed lands since loot 2.0. Even just since last year people have learned that they need to pinch every penny and sadly Ambu's aren't a unique mob. They are everywhere, even in untaxed Caly land. Are you giving people enough of a reason to hunt ambu's on your taxed land when they can hunt them on untaxed land? I see you've got an extra event going on but maybe it's too grandiose for the average player? Maybe the marketing you're doing isn't getting enough attention... Case in point - I see you've got the 1 million ped event but you've got multiple threads for it and you're linking to the old dead one in your signature instead of the 2018 updated one LOL.


I can personally assure you that I hunt ambu's from time to time and I've never been swayed away from Nea's due to the hills on the area. I hunt multiple areas and stick where the loot/returns are good.

I know you have your stats to compare with and are desperately trying to find the reason for the decline and while I agree that MA should step up their communication, I think the geography changes are just a coincidence to your profit decline. Or if they are a factor I'd suspect it's minimal. Though I would get a poll done up asking players if THEY feel that it's a problem and is preventing them from wanting to hunt on your land area. Without knowing what the players are thinking it may just be jumping to conclusions.

While I don't agree with what MA has done and they should fix it, I think the power to fix your dwindling profits is in your hands with more pro-active movement in trying to raise the popularity of your land area lol. I'd say try a lower tax for a while, maybe try some sponsored events... maybe even play up the hills.... "get a screenshot hoffing on a hill and get and extra 250 ped!" or "first player to global on 3 separate hills gets 100 ped extra" something to that effect might be a humorous way to take advantage.
 
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osten

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As an investor I can understand your point of view. Personally, I am a spender in this game, and I'm not very happy if my deposit is spent too quick. Also, you need to consider new competing activities, wich you say nothing about here. New VU's=new activities=new exiting fun.

Maybe MA tries to limit the outgoing stream of money and unless you have some dividend contract, this is purely up to them and is a risk factor you as an investor should keep in mind when putting a lot of money in this game. The risk in these types of property is above extreme. Very few investments pays dividend forever. If price/earning is right, you will your investment + interest back and I think you have already.

I would find it appropriate if MA told high investors upfront what was going to happen, and why, and maybe warn what may happen to your income. I have no idea what their policy is here. I can see it may be a problem if you could sell on this inside information, so it needs to be public information, and this is where the problem is. It's simply not doable.

Good luck :)
 

DavinFelth

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In my opinion OP is a highly respected, trust worthy, and positive contributor to EU.
No matter the outcome, the lack of response to you and silent coms from MA is horrid.

HEYYYY CEO?! HelllloooooooOoOo

How about that communication.?:mad:
 

livius

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Jambon a question for you, you would still hunt eomons if they will spawn on Athena’s spaceport mountains next year?
 

Photon

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Seriously MA - just pick up the phone and call Akoz. I'm sure things can be resolved some way by just talking about it? It's good to talk, no? :)
 

Orion

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Long story short:

This is a call to MA.
To communicate.


Your words, Henrik Nel, CEO, MindArk PE AB:

Entropians,

When I was announced as the new CEO of MindArk I stated that one of my priorities would be improved communication between MindArk and the community.
A good chance to give them some meaning.
 

jambon

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Jambon a question for you, you would still hunt eomons if they will spawn on Athena’s spaceport mountains next year?
Probably if it means profit. Shit man... I've spent hours hunting boorums perched on cliffs like a dam gargoyal previously LOL

To clarify my post though for the TLDR's....

1. YES. MA should contact them to solve the issue this large investor is having. Regardless of if it's causing a decline in their profits or not, they have changed something that the person paid for "as is". To change the topography or layout now out of no where for no reason in a way that could affect the profits and/or would have affected their decision of how much to invest in the first place is borderline criminal. IMO Mindark has a real problem with sweeping this type of shit under the rug. *cough* avatar statues aka fraud/scam/theft... and they think they can get away with this shit forever without consequence. I really hate to think it but "Mindark" and "Class Action lawsuit" are words I would not be surprised to see together in a sentence in the future at some point if they don't shape up. Sure, a terms of service you force people to agree to on every launch is a nice shield for a while but it's not a license to break any laws you want guys. Fraud is still fraud (IE selling something that you never even intend to actually deliver)

2. If there is one thing I've learned in 12+ years of playing this game. You can't count on MA when it comes to this sort of stuff. You want something changed or fixed? Generally you've got to find a fix or workaround yourself unless it's something that almost everyone complains about. If your profits are dropping they WILL NOT just hand you a check for what you feel you're entitled to. Obviously MA should fix the issues they caused or at the very least be communicating with you but in the meantime your best move is to try to do what you can to recover profits through other means that don't require MA's intervention.

That's all I'm saying...
 
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Darth Revan

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I agree that MA should at least be communicating with you by replying, regardless of whether you like their response or outcome to the situation if there becomes one.

Regarding the hills, I used to hunt on your lands when i was hunting Ambu's, never had an issue with the hills.
I didn't stop because of hills, i stopped because the loot wasn't matching what i could afford when taking into account land taxes. I moved on to other mobs in different areas, some were taxed LA's as well, others were not.
Your million $ event is good, but at times there are far better events going on. Case in point, Captain Jack's AUD for 10 globals plus random AUD's ended up being far more profitable for a time while grinding the iron mission for that mob. However I stopped hunting there when another opportunity came around.

The change in loot with 2.0 has most likely resulted in more of an impact on your LA than the hills.
 

dombath

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Hate to say it but isnt your profit now split more equally between royal club and la42?
Fen wont be helping much either

The hills you mention do not effect game play. Ambu are not a hard mob and dont require range.

Royal and 42 have much more actively managed events. Its funny really ive sent you couple of pms now and posted in your threads trying to register for your event and had no reply. Currently completing my 30k on LA42.

Yes it sucks some you have had no reply from mindark. But think, what can you do?

A few ingame events fri sat night ?
Some initiatives to sweat there again?
Jackpot or similar?

People wont just come because neas used to be the cool place to hunt.

Small edit - Checked the post again .. horray registered. No reply to pm though so i never knew
 
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Killahbee

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Finished my mission on your LA so no more reason to hunt them for me.
Also I think you should be asking the community why they are not hunting on your LA anymore. I didn't hear of any changes untill now.

1 more thing i want to say, MA doesn't care about land owners nor its players... Remember how they fucked deathifier?
 

Alina

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you made so much money with your land in the past , i remember hawk alone making u like ~10k tax per month, things changed nobody hunts that shity mob anymore and you blame it on landscape :laugh: this dude made his investment back like 10-20 times maybe even more , it was one of the most popular lands in game...srly fuck off
 
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BigPimping

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In a meta/enviroment where more people are becoming aware of the numbers and realise hunting taxed is literally extra (often insummountable) tt loss a lazily managed, low avg mu mob LA is of very little value, im impressed you have the return you do, guess a lot of entropians are creatures of habit. Your LA had an amazing ROI for many years with very little effort and now MA should compensate you in full for some hills :laugh::laugh: they can reply to your enquiry and tell you to f off or they can ignore you and same messege gets across.
 

Tournament Spon

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I can confirm based on conversations j have had in local / observed with others that since the change ambush hunters are going elsewhere as a direct result of the change to his land.

It is this change they did to his land that has stopped others from investing further and acquiring land as first time owners as well as others from expanding their holdings.

Hopefully mkndark reads this thread and decides to do the right thing, it would be in their interest.
 

sententz

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so..an investment or ingame virtual property can be changed after is bought? and if is changed ,the property dont loose his original value? hmm... didnt know that :scratch2:
 

Aloisius

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I hunt in Neas last couple month and yea its not very popular and sweaters are gone
Also i dont mind hils if loot is good :yay:
i fkn hate hills in this game
 

Billy Jean Ruby

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Contact with land owners prior of any changes should be the "policy"! I don't know personally the OP but I do know he's active and he's invest great deal of money. That should be at least respected.
From my experience there is tottaly different behavior and high value of respect to serious investors from the side of PP's (at least these I know as ROCKtropia - Arkadia).
 

Evey

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You guys seem to have forgotten where we had to hunt argonauts many years ago and how crowded those hills were both spawns... hard terrain was never a problem for the hunters. A crap mob to hunt may be a problem to the land owner, yeah, but not the terrain. I recently joined some events made by Land owners and I had a blast in spite of the shit hills...

Ambu hunters? There's no such thing, the mob is stupid and useless... Any LA with ambu and no events would have devaluated no matter how flat it would have been.

Money back? Sure, if profit from the land tax is given back also, to the players.
For many years that LA was very very profitable without much if any effort put into it and now that there's competition you want the money back?

PS Those big falls in activity/profit are the start of eomon migration.
 

Kalixt

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WTF !!!

Nea's place was something what every noob sweater knew very good back in the days. I remember group of the opallo hunters around nearly everytime. It was very good place to be as noob, there was very high number of players around.

Non of these things remain up today and you blame terrain peaks ? You cant be serious... ;)
 
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Xen

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MA is probably still sore about you taking that axe and killing a couple hundred people at one of their big events. :laugh:
 

girtsn

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imho it is wrong for LA terrain to be screwed up as of some redesign effort, but then again LA owners were always getting screwed over badly
* no acknowledged evening out of some part of tax to make it worthwhile hunting on LA vs. outside of them
* the change that made all maturities loot the same and changed what drops from what
* more and more events screwing up the activity on LAs

as far as MA doing anything about the particular issue, this is in same shoes when the loot system (dpp, efficiency, looter skills) working for some but not for others - "it is dynamic" and sometimes in blacklisting ways
 

wizz

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imho it is wrong for LA terrain to be screwed up as of some redesign effort, but then again LA owners were always getting screwed over badly
* no acknowledged evening out of some part of tax to make it worthwhile hunting on LA vs. outside of them
* the change that made all maturities loot the same and changed what drops from what
* more and more events screwing up the activity on LAs

as far as MA doing anything about the particular issue, this is in same shoes when the loot system (dpp, efficiency, looter skills) working for some but not for others - "it is dynamic" and sometimes in blacklisting ways
Quickly, put on your tinfoil hat again!!!
 

girtsn

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As someone who owned some LA's and doing actual hunting with high dpp efficiency and looter skills I don't really need a hat to see how things were and are working.
Quickly, put on your tinfoil hat again!!!
 

Kiko

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IMO LA's are the property of the land owner and whether virtual or not you don't just rearrange some one's property with out consent. I am sure no one would want to wake up with a mountain in their back yard or a lake in their driveway. If mindark wanted to change landscapes or "improve" them they should have contacted property owners first and atleast had some kind of conversation on what would be best for the land and the owner.
 

Kalixt

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Its nice that you want help to your soc mate but this is not true in this Universe.

IMO LA's are the property of the land owner and whether virtual or not you don't just rearrange some one's property with out consent.
:lolup:

BTW EULA explain everything, basically he cant do nothing about it.
 

Photon

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Its nice that you want help to your soc mate but this is not true in this Universe.
Whatever about helping one's socmate, even if you were leasing a property you wouldn't expect the landlord to come change it without consultation. I see the same parallel here. I know all about the EULA but there's also another concept called 'good form' ... it'd be good form to keep comms lines open especially if a customer feels aggrieved.
 
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