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Question: Please one more time on scopes and lasers

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CozMoDan

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Joined
Jan 13, 2008
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Herco Coz Mann
I am so confused as usual.

My questions
1. I see skill attachment bonus-Is this the same as a skill boost ?

2. Would the skill boost be the only reason for using these?

3. Do you think they would help with either more damage or higher hit percent?

4. Are they really only useful on an UL gun?

5 Does the UL gun have to be level 100 for them to be useful (I have a UL gun that was SIB which I have maxed) ?

6. Most important do they have to be at 100% TT for them to work correctly ? Several say no others say yes.

7. What does the skill mod do, i.e. what does it help especially if you are maxed on the gun ?

Remember this is a UL sib gun that is maxed 10/10.

I have tried to wade through all the posts and I just get more confused with graphs, circles and stats of all kinds.

TIA for any help you can give.

Peace.
 
CozMoDan said:
I am so confused as usual.

My questions
1. I see skill attachment bonus-Is this the same as a skill boost ?

2. Would the skill boost be the only reason for using these?

3. Do you think they would help with either more damage or higher hit percent?

4. Are they really only useful on an UL gun?

5 Does the UL gun have to be level 100 for them to be useful (I have a UL gun that was SIB which I have maxed) ?

6. Most important do they have to be at 100% TT for them to work correctly ? Several say no others say yes.

7. What does the skill mod do, i.e. what does it help especially if you are maxed on the gun ?

Remember this is a UL sib gun that is maxed 10/10.

I have tried to wade through all the posts and I just get more confused with graphs, circles and stats of all kinds.

TIA for any help you can give.

Peace.
Click to expand...

I can't answer your questions, but I use 2 hunnir and 1x jzar scope on my UL guns. What they do exactly, how much they help, or if its worth it I do not know.. but they look fkn sweet and were implemented into the game for some reason. That is why I use them. Who knows, maybe I'm an idiot or maybe I'm not, but my returns are okay and I can't complain :)
 
Skill mod only help on max distance that your weapon can provide. Closer your target is less Skill mod impact u have.

Lin
 
Regardless of any game mechanics impact, I find the scope very useful.

Firstly there is an apparent boost in light level when looking through a scope. Sometimes it can be too dark to clearly see mobs unless I use the zoom function.

Secondly I find it easier to target distant mobs and to stay on target when I zoom, especially the ones that bounce around a bit as they move. BTW I use manual targeting as I like to pick my targets and I find I enjoy hunting more that way.

As for the game mechanics aspect, well they have two effects as far as I know:
1. They improve your hit chance if you are shooting at a distance close to max range for the weapon, but I don't know if this has any effect if you are maxed on the weapon, which I generally am.

2. They increase skill gains, but I haven't seen any data quantifying this in relation to the increased cost per click.
 
As much as I would love to see them being useful, I think they are waste of peds. Imo they decrease eco and skill boost isn't worth it. Depends what you want more... skills or peds ? Same with enhancers, they are here to make you spend more money, though enhancers are situational, in 1% cases they can save you some cents...
If I were you, I would focus on getting the best amps (A-series, beast/dante) possible for your guns. Amp > any attachment.
If you want zoom and cool effects, buy the cheapest and most eco sights.

I know it's not an answer to your questions, just a little bit of logical thinking before you are sure you wanna use them :)
 
KijkkiJikki said:
As for the game mechanics aspect, well they have two effects as far as I know:
1. They improve your hit chance if you are shooting at a distance close to max range for the weapon, but I don't know if this has any effect if you are maxed on the weapon, which I generally am.
Click to expand...

Do you have to be zoomed in, or is it sufficient to have the scope on the weapon?
 
The info on the attachments says "Increases the chance to hit a target" and "This sight/scope will increase the shooters aim" = they increase your hitrate through increasing Aim. Aim contributes 4% to all ranged professions (5% to Gunner), so modifying it by (SkillMod)% modifies your Hit Level by (0.04 * SkillMod)%.

Hit_Ability = 4 + 0.06 * Hit_Level
Hitrate = 80 + Hit_ability * 1.25​

Hence,

Hitrate_Increase(%) = 1.25 * 0.06 * Hit_Level * (0.04 * SkillMod/100) = 0.00003 * Hit_Level * SkillMod​

Example: Say, you have an "old school" laser gun, 70 lvl Laser Sniper, and 2 Hunnirs + 1 Jzar combo. The attachments give 58% SkillMod (and 5.8 Skill bonus[SUP]*[/SUP]), so your Hitrate will increase by whooping 0.1218%. You'll miss 1 less time for each 822 shots. Does it worth the decay? Hard question.

*) I have no slightest idea where this applies to. People may theorize how much they like but there's just not enough info to make any reliable assumptions.​

But that's not all. The Item info also says "Full effect is obtained at maximum range and the effect decreases the closer you are to the target". Which means that the use of the attachments makes sense only on taggers and only for the first shot at max range.

Add to it that we don't know do we have to be in zoomed mode for the effect to happen.

Personally, I used to put the mentioned above combo (2 hunnirs+jzar) on my Marber taggers but once I got a Baringer SR47 for tagging purposes (which I have maxed out), I stopped using any attachments.
 
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1. I see skill attachment bonus-Is this the same as a skill boost ?
edit: Might be 2 different things (see next post)

2. Would the skill boost be the only reason for using these?
No. (see previous posts)

3. Do you think they would help with either more damage or higher hit percent?
There's a good calculation in Svarog's post. I'd say it's not worth it to use scopes for that reason.

4. Are they really only useful on an UL gun?
No. L or UL doesn't matter.

5 Does the UL gun have to be level 100 for them to be useful (I have a UL gun that was SIB which I have maxed) ?
No. For the scopes/sights skill level doesn't matter. U can keep growing your skills after lvl 100 if u want.

6. Most important do they have to be at 100% TT for them to work correctly ? Several say no others say yes.
Their stats definitely don't change. I have used full set of biggest scopes and sights for a year (few years ago), sometimes fully repaired, sometimes with only few % on them left. There was never any noticeable change in their primary function - generating more skillgains.

7. What does the skill mod do, i.e. what does it help especially if you are maxed on the gun ?
Skill mod does the same thing as the modern skill boosters - increases your skillgains. If you already have enough skill getting even more skills is useless.
 
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Fifth said:
7. What does the skill mod do, i.e. what does it help especially if you are maxed on the gun ?
Skill mod does the same thing as the modern skill boosters - increases your skillgains. If you already have enough skill getting even more skills is useless.
Click to expand...

You mean Skill Bonus, not Skill Mod? Skill Bonus stat's tooltip says "Attachment Skill Bonus gives a bonus to your skill increase factor" and that allows that interpretation, but Skill Mod's "Increases the chance to hit target" is quite clear.

Fifth said:
1. I see skill attachment bonus-Is this the same as a skill boost ?
It must be the same thing because it has exactly the same value - one expressed as a decimal, another as percentage. There's no known items where those 2 numbers were different.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what's a "skill boost", but if it's the Skill Mod (which is not boost, see above) then it's not the same as Skill Bonus. For Hunnir, for instance, they're 22.0% and 2.0, for Jzar - 14.0% and 1.8. Not in game currently, so can't look up others.
 
Add to it that we don't know do we have to be in zoomed mode for the effect to happen.
Click to expand...

It would greatly complicate the coding if the skill effects only happened while zoomed in, so I'd be very surprised if it were true.

Also, since the hit and crit ability don't go above 10 now, it really looks like the only reason to use laser sights on maxed weapons is for the "attachment skill bonus" which may or may not be economical. (Scopes of course are still useful for zooming in even on maxed weapons.) Of course, it may be a display bug and they do actually increase hit ability above 10 (do we have any recent data? i guess just wait till after the VU, they may change it all around again...).
 
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They are toys.

they "may give a slight boost" but not = to what they cost. (like most toys here)
 
Neil Stockton said:
It would greatly complicate the coding if the skill effects only happened while zoomed in, so I'd be very surprised if it were true.
Click to expand...

One "if" clause, as I see it, like "if (viewport == scope)". It's quite logical from a common sense perspective - RL scopes usually don't improve your shooting when you don't look in them.

Neil Stockton said:
Also, since the hit and crit ability don't go above 10 now, it really looks like the only reason to use laser sights on maxed weapons is for the "skill bonus" which may or may not be economical.
Click to expand...

I always assumed that they have no use on maxed out weapons, forgot to mention it in my post, but now thinking about it I guess it might be wrong. We know that the highest Hit Rate is 92.5% at HA 10/10 - but if I'm right about how attachments improve hitrate, they can as well do it past the 92.5%, especially since the bonus is so negligible (+0.348% with Skill Mod 58% at profession level 200 :D).
 
Apart from all other considerations, there's one situation where scopes (not sights) are useful.
Suppose u hunting mobs with huge aggro range. It's pain in the ass to aim the tiny hitbox that might move away the same moment you pull the trigger because of mob animation (i.e. turning or raising it's head to look around and lowering it again).
The reload time on snipers is quite long, and the respawn timer is ticking. If you miss, u have to wait for the next reload and shoot again. There's a good chance the next respawn wave will hit you (or some of the mobs around you is wandering into aggro range) before u can finish off the 1st mob and move ahead. If this happens your decay will be considerably bigger than the decay on the scope.
This consideration is not so obvious but nevertheless very real. It only applies if u believe decay is a bad thing ofc... ;)
 
Svarog said:
I always assumed that they have no use on maxed out weapons, forgot to mention it in my post, but now thinking about it I guess it might be wrong. We know that the highest Hit Rate is 92.5% at HA 10/10 - but if I'm right about how attachments improve hitrate, they can as well do it past the 92.5%, especially since the bonus is so negligible (+0.348% with Skill Mod 58% at profession level 200 :D).
Click to expand...

Attachments used to improve the hit ability past 10. I remember seeing 12/10. But a recent VU changed it (not sure which one) and 10 is the max displayed now.
 
Neil Stockton said:
Attachments used to improve the hit ability past 10. I remember seeing 12/10. But a recent VU changed it (not sure which one) and 10 is the max displayed now.
Click to expand...

Are there any screenshots showing this?
 
Neil Stockton said:
It would greatly complicate the coding if the skill effects only happened while zoomed in, so I'd be very surprised if it were true.

Also, since the hit and crit ability don't go above 10 now, it really looks like the only reason to use laser sights on maxed weapons is for the "attachment skill bonus" which may or may not be economical. (Scopes of course are still useful for zooming in even on maxed weapons.) Of course, it may be a display bug and they do actually increase hit ability above 10 (do we have any recent data? i guess just wait till after the VU, they may change it all around again...).
Click to expand...

I see that one post noted that he had seen HA of 12/10. I can attest to that fact. I was watching Mercury on twitchtv and noticed when he checked his gun info (can't remember which one it was) it was around 13.x/10 and I also noticed later that his level was 132 on his highest level but I didn't get which profession it was. Also as the post says that may have changed with a later VU and this was sometime ago when I was watching Mercury.
 
Thanks for all the replies and the consensus seems to be unknown:( There is one thing though I agree that it is much easier to hold on a target with a scope at range than just the aim point that you have selected.
 
I'd say scope are pretty much practically a must on taggers (unless you have a 27" monitor) or you're tagging a chomper. For this you could use a cheap scope like alekz if you want (and don't need the skill bonus).

Another reason is that you could use it as a binocular, to see details on longer distance. Here, the higher zoom the better I guess.
 
aia said:
I'd say scope are pretty much practically a must on taggers (unless you have a 27" monitor) or you're tagging a chomper. For this you could use a cheap scope like alekz if you want (and don't need the skill bonus).

Another reason is that you could use it as a binocular, to see details on longer distance. Here, the higher zoom the better I guess.
Click to expand...

Yep I use a cheap scope on my tagger and I do use it for long range detail:)
 
Neil Stockton said:
Attachments used to improve the hit ability past 10. I remember seeing 12/10. But a recent VU changed it (not sure which one) and 10 is the max displayed now.
Click to expand...

If so, it was before November 2005.

KijkkiJikki said:
Accuracy Enhancers have this effect.
Click to expand...

Yes, but on CHA, not HA.

I've tested the effect of attachments on HA several times, the first was for an old thread Recoda started in probably 2006 and more recently last year in a thread titled Hit rate in 2012 or 2013 or something like that.

ETA: linky The main focus wasn't the effect of attachments but i did get around to looking at that a bit at the end.

The only truly conclusive thing you could say i've found is that attachments do very little. It seems that they do improve hit ratio on unmaxed guns, but the margins are so small it's not a certainty. I use the most efficient attachments (skill mod/pec decay) on my imk2: SE600s and Headshot I iirc. These have very little decay, so either way i'm not out much.

I didn't find that they did anything on maxed weapons but again the expected changes are so small it's very hard to verify.
 
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Just changing your rate of fire could have an effect on the hit rate. I'd wait until slightly after the recharge rather than firing immediately and it seemed to improve to the point where at the time I could keep up with L sib stuff with a UL un maxed weapon.

This was under the assumption that the server could list the shot as before it was possible and say it was a miss i.e. rubber banding for weapons. But that was in vu9 but it's one of the reasons why I still don't use the auto use / fire mode.

Remember the attachments decay on each fire as well so at close range you're wasting ped having them on everything. And if you're going the old school route you've got two laser sights and a scope on one weapon.
 
Doer said:
If so, it was before November 2005.



Yes, but on CHA, not HA.

I've tested the effect of attachments on HA several times, the first was for an old thread Recoda started in probably 2006 and more recently last year in a thread titled Hit rate in 2012 or 2013 or something like that.

ETA: linky The main focus wasn't the effect of attachments but i did get around to looking at that a bit at the end.

The only truly conclusive thing you could say i've found is that attachments do very little. It seems that they do improve hit ratio on unmaxed guns, but the margins are so small it's not a certainty. I use the most efficient attachments (skill mod/pec decay) on my imk2: SE600s and Headshot I iirc. These have very little decay, so either way i'm not out much.

I didn't find that they did anything on maxed weapons but again the expected changes are so small it's very hard to verify.
Click to expand...

Incorrect because I started in 2007 and I saw this before enhancers came out. Moreover there was increase in both not just HA.
 
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