Population of the Entropia Universe

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Rocket192

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mayhems = 12k+ active accounts

outside of mayhems = 2 active accounts, 30 rdi professionals, and maybe 100 moloch/marcimex bots.
 

3-J

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It's too expensive to play for the majority of people. I realize you can play smaller for a less amount, but that isn't fun for those who have been around for awhile. So you have to choose to play low level (where you cannot progress and thus it's not rewarding), or high level, where it is too expensive. I try to find a balance and set a tight budget where the budget dictates my total playtime. So I deposit x amount per year, if that runs out then i don't play. Other people probably do this too, which lowers the active population. There would be more players if our money lasted longer, it's that simple :D
 

mastermesh

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It's too expensive to play for the majority of people. I realize you can play smaller for a less amount, but that isn't fun for those who have been around for awhile. So you have to choose to play low level (where you cannot progress and thus it's not rewarding), or high level, where it is too expensive. I try to find a balance and set a tight budget where the budget dictates my total playtime. So I deposit x amount per year, if that runs out then i don't play. Other people probably do this too, which lowers the active population. There would be more players if our money lasted longer, it's that simple :D
They decreased fort costs long ago. Maybe new game engine will result in similar cost cuts elsewhere...
 
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ow.. One week I once did 20% of the mining global

If you read MindArk's annual company statements with revenue and profit, you can see that they are making great profit. I can't remember the numbers in my head. Regardless if it is 500, 4K or 20K players, there is no reason for them to shut down EU.

I can only imagine that UE5 will bring in more players, which would be very welcomed.
 

halftoasted

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There plenty of players that do not global and some that dont even register. Especially those that play offworld. The globals for the most part are also really high on some mobs compared to spending and make it affect calypsonian perception of what a global really mean.

To make a simple comparison. A kerb provider will global at what ? 15p ?It has 320hp. A mulmun looter elite ? about 48-55p kill cost and global at 50p(talk about buying swirls). Those are not even good multi... The hater(300hp), scavenger wolves(50hp+) and many others will only global at 50p+.

This is one of the reason I find entropialife to be a poor tool to see experience of a player in any given profession or activity. You can buy swirls and still be at 70% return or have none and be in the positive without existing as far as EL is concerned. Im sure Mulmun event has the same local chat.. "Loot suck" and you still see everyone swirling like crazy. I myself have many that didnt register even if some do.. I have a minimum of 7-8 million clicks of ep1 on my avatar. Yup... 3-4 million of ep2 and can say I dont shy from other components either. I also mine from TT tool to f104(I can use f105 capped easy. Just a preference), hunted hundred thousands of mobs and sweated more than logic dictate for someone who did all that. Would my EL say anything about this ? Not really.

This is why EL data is interesting to watch but does not really say anything conclusive about the community or even a player experience. Someone who global a lot but only killed 30k atrox doesnt have the experience of someone who had millions of loot instance regardless of global count being X or 0.
 

conners1010

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I've not read all the replies but MA told us there's millions of players and I trust them implicitly! :D
 

horus1121

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Old School Runescape which looks like Nintendo 64 gameplay has 1 340 000 ACTIVE players.
If you every walk around in that game youll quickly realise half of those are bots ( suicide, autoclicker, script using fisher etc or scammer bots),. Minimum half of them. In fact its kinda easier to find someone to talk with in this game than in osrs.

Not saying thats a bad game but the actual active players are not even close to those numbers.

Also playerbase multiplied when they introduced full cross-platform support, and now everyone and their mother are skilling the 1 button / 5 mins skills during work all day on their phones aswell which again, makes the game look like a lot more alive but in fact it isnt.
 

Art Jennifer

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If you read MindArk's annual company statements with revenue and profit, you can see that they are making great profit. I can't remember the numbers in my head. Regardless if it is 500, 4K or 20K players, there is no reason for them to shut down EU.

I can only imagine that UE5 will bring in more players, which would be very welcomed.

agree. They doing better than ever.

When we moved to the engine we are currently on there was a lot of hype. Which then didn’t bring much, however let’s see what happens this time
 

jambon

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Considering the numbers we're dealing with does it really matter to get more accurate? I mean the numbers are low compared to popular streamed games. It's at least 3,551 and at most 5,917 avatars that have globalled in the last 30 days. There are TONS of people that don't global though - all the traders and sweaters never get logged in that.

The amount of active globallers changes at various times of the year. During mayhem it can get in the mid 4000's.

Many years ago MA stated there were several hundred thousand registered accounts. I can only imagine that this number has grown into the millions as more would-be hopefulls have joined and left.

I'd say there's probably about 2-3k people that play every month. Maybe another 2-5k people that only play at key times of the year. And a fresh crop of about 500 - 1000+ newbies every month that are just starting to play (many just sweat). Of those new players maybe a dozen stick it out for over a year.

To answer your questions:
  1. How is it we're doing so poorly?
    This is a matter of opinion. A large player base does not a good game make. A free to play game needs like 5 million active users for the number to work out where the chumps buying skins is enough to pay the bills and profit. When you're charging a like $15 subscription fee you need only a few hundred thousand users. When you've got most of your player based throwing $20 - $1000+ a day at the game you don't need many people at all for a profitable business. This is a niche game that will never have as much mass appeal as a 100% free to play game.
  2. What can be done to fix it?
    There's certainly a LOT that could be done to improve the game to increase retention. There are plenty of threads going over these suggestions. But the #1 thing that absolutely MUST be done is MA needs to start implementing some of the many suggestions they continue to ignore. And to actually follow through on the things they promise. This would certainly help retain more people in this game.
  3. Will UE5 do ANYTHING or will it be more of the same gameplay with updated graphics and mechanics?
    It can do a lot because the engine does a lot. A big reason why there is a lack of expansion with certain systems is due to engine limitations....and laziness to an extent. The devs don't want to have to invest the resources to fully build out some of these systems in a very outdated engine. Their code is also the worst spaghetti string crap you've ever seen which is why they are constantly breaking unrelated things with minor tweaks. The core gameplay will never change as that is their bread and butter. But various systems can be greatly expanded out of the box such as the mission system. A lot of the mechanics in this game had to be jimmy rigged using the cry engine. Additionally various immersion elements will be greatly increased to make the game more appealing to new players. Not too many people jump at playing a game that looks like it was from 2010.
 

jwestonmoss

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Who owns EntropiaLife?

Could someone gather a list of the total:

HuntersMinersCrafters
3 5511 1751 191

Remove any duplicates from the list, then add them together to get a speculative total?

Say ~3666 ACTIVE players including traders and sweaters?

6 Planets and thousands of kilometers of land and space to explore yet the population that equals a small town that wouldn't even qualify for a Walmart?


Assuming https://mmo-population.com/ is relatively correct...

Which lists Entropia Universe as 94 000 TOTAL players means there's around ~3% of accounts active?

Old School Runescape which looks like Nintendo 64 gameplay has 1 340 000 ACTIVE players.

Entropia thus has ~0.2% of the ACTIVE players Old School Runescape does.


Some questions:

How is it we're doing so poorly?

What can be done to fix it?

Will UE5 do ANYTHING or will it be more of the same gameplay with updated graphics and mechanics?
Personally I UE5 isn't, all on its own, going to make that big of a long-term impact. Some old players will come back to see the new digs. Whether they stay depends on more than the engine.

There's a couple things they could do to make meaningful improvements. in EU there's a lot of slot machines levers and not a lot of "game". There needs to be some variety. There are limitless horizons here. I think they may be afraid to do *anything* that might reduce the percentage of player time spent cycling ped. But attracting and retaining players has a value that you can't measure exclusively in % of time spent shooting.

Combat needs to get mixed up a little bit. Some underused weapons need some variety of options. Pets need a good revamp to be more than just a pill you can toggle on and off. Combat pets would be a ton of fun, I think.

EU needs, as others have mentioned, to think about ways to generate MU for players. Obviously, MU for players doesn't make EU money directly, but it is short-sighted to only focus on things that make EU money directly....MU if cycled means ultimately more for EU. The way you generate MU is by creating things that need huntable/minable inputs that paying players want. Otherwise it's the same old animal muscle oil for 101% ad infinitum. That's boring, let's just be honest. I don't need to see some huge piece of gear drop. Maybe there could be puzzle pieces that once assembled do something, or can be traded in for something, or even just become some kind of cool painting that people can put on their apartment wall. Maybe even could be traded for REAL WORLD SWAG which MA would mail to you if you complete it in-game. The cost could be easily managed by assigning an appropriate PED value to the pieces, but if the pieces are "small enough", even lowbies might find one or two they could sell.

Really it just takes some care about where the game is going to come up with these ideas. I'm not asking or expecting them to stop doing what they're doing, or turn the world upside down. But why not trying something new now and again? A company that is afraid to take a chance from time to time will stagnate.
 

raulpon

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EU only has globals/HOFs, casino effect:

1. Combat - horrible and clunky
2. PVP - horrible
3. Graphics - 99% play at minecraft graphics to get around in this mess
4. Storyline and quests - lol
5. Crafting - millions of things to do, yet 0.1% is useful or profitable
6. Expensive
7. Horrible dev, zero transparency
8. Cheating&exploiting is not treated equally
9. List goes on

EU only has healthy playerbase of people who invested enough and they can't quit due to MA not making cashing out available. Yes, you can withraw money, but really cashing out skills is borderline impossible.

EU will stay forever, because even if playerbase/income decreases, they will just decrease team and keep lingering on with selling new deeds, items, crypots, air, promises, whatever they can to keep investe/addicted people around.

And since some are making money, promise of that dream brings on tiny amount of new blood to keep wheels turning.
 

Art Jennifer

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EU only has globals/HOFs, casino effect:

1. Combat - horrible and clunky
2. PVP - horrible
3. Graphics - 99% play at minecraft graphics to get around in this mess
4. Storyline and quests - lol
5. Crafting - millions of things to do, yet 0.1% is useful or profitable
6. Expensive
7. Horrible dev, zero transparency
8. Cheating&exploiting is not treated equally
9. List goes on

EU only has healthy playerbase of people who invested enough and they can't quit due to MA not making cashing out available. Yes, you can withraw money, but really cashing out skills is borderline impossible.

EU will stay forever, because even if playerbase/income decreases, they will just decrease team and keep lingering on with selling new deeds, items, crypots, air, promises, whatever they can to keep investe/addicted people around.

And since some are making money, promise of that dream brings on tiny amount of new blood to keep wheels turning.

This.

I crossed my fingers that this is why they have removed summer boxes and will continue to remove things as we get closer to the new engine. In a way cleaning up the mess.

Yeah will annoy people, but I think we need to take a big step back so we can move forward. There is no shame in doing this. What happens when over the years little bits are added here and there. Just gets into a mess.
 

Msturlese

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@ jennifer nothing against removing boxes if event monster drop a 2 ped uniammo token with TT value 0.00001 pec
otehrwise it is again a "no cookies" event
but it will not happen because those unicammo would be paid by MA...

Boxes are paid by gamers.... for mu part and bring in USD for keys to ma
keep them dropping......
too many rings? put scopes mk1 in ring pool
or put crafting coronet
or whatever 5...30k item that ppl want... no need for rings specifically
 

Bamb00cha

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Who owns EntropiaLife?

Could someone gather a list of the total:

HuntersMinersCrafters
3 5511 1751 191

Remove any duplicates from the list, then add them together to get a speculative total?

Say ~3666 ACTIVE players including traders and sweaters?

6 Planets and thousands of kilometers of land and space to explore yet the population that equals a small town that wouldn't even qualify for a Walmart?


Assuming https://mmo-population.com/ is relatively correct...

Which lists Entropia Universe as 94 000 TOTAL players means there's around ~3% of accounts active?

Old School Runescape which looks like Nintendo 64 gameplay has 1 340 000 ACTIVE players.

Entropia thus has ~0.2% of the ACTIVE players Old School Runescape does.


Some questions:

How is it we're doing so poorly?

What can be done to fix it?

Will UE5 do ANYTHING or will it be more of the same gameplay with updated graphics and mechanics?
I dont know did anyone mentioned before, but as I know Entropialife counts only those players who got global in last 30 days. You can see that e.g. 3551 number of hunters is not constant.
 

Naomi

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How to retain more ppl?

MA COSTS vs INGAME ROI
- spend less on useless moneypits: PA redesign, cryengine2, compets, MA-crypto, castle, ..., fill in the many I didn't mention... and make a broader higher ROI in-game, actually profiting attracts and retains playerbase!
If we can't brag about our profits, we can't attract other ppl !

Playerbase Marketing
- Many players here are digital experts with connections. I for one, have many client websites, and wouldn't mind running an add on them, that is IF THERE IS ANY INCENTIVE!.
( for instance, 1 ped for every account that has multiple activity/week for the first 3 months, + 0.1% of its deposits) Or something else, as long as it can't be abused.
- Playerbase digital content = advertisement for their personal real world business
- ... many many examples we can all think of
 
D

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Without detailing the topic;

- Contract system: inter-user contracts to harness user labor as well as NPC corporate contracts (i.e. 'missions')
- More information on resources and creatures
- Ownership (estates, land areas etc.) with a larger range of customizable entry options
- A truly open MMO world allowing users to drive their own projects, whilst including a multitude of optional goals
- User revenue from interactions with user-created content

These should be interesting additions.

I hope they include some sort of Minecraft / Fortnite building system so that Estate / Land Areas owners can really build out their investments.
 

KimBoom

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P2P contracts for gear that are not consumable.

Player A rent/lend his/her weapon to Player B.
Make contract that Player A decides when this contract ends (by XX/XX/2022, MA time 00:00)
which will include a condition that Player B has to pay to Player A in a daily basis. (1ped/day - 1000ped/day).

When the contract ends, the weapon goes back to Player A's inventory and the contract paper that was in both player's inventory gets deleted.
If Player B wants to give back the weapon to Player A earlier, there should be a button that terminates the contract -> weapon goes back to Player A -> daily pay ends.

No need for collateral or anything. If you wish to burrow your good gear to your friend? just make the deal as 1pec/day.
If you wish to make profit by renting out your gear? just make the deal expensive for daily basis.

This will work good for everyone.

I think a lot of ppl brought up this idea already.
 

Master Miller

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I read all of your messages boys, i agree with a lot of you but i think fresh players for the economy of EU will benefit all of us. If you guys think, and (i saw a lot of you saying that is an expensive game), just think about the scammish NFT games, loads of ppl lost millons on them with unclear and shady rules, paying between 300 / 400 USD for a each Axie or other game where u need to buy ur NFT in order to play. Contrary to this kind of games ( that are a disgrace for the gaming world) is this Swedish guys company Mindark, this guys delivered the first real economy game and is been on for 19 years by now, not a lot of MMORPGs last that long.

I know loads of gamers that spend their money in microtransaction games, NFT, buying useless skins, and much more. i think if we can manage to persuade the developers to aim and compete against the bearish and shitty ( New market) we can all win, and make this game flourish and have a lot of fun.

I read u
 

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I have always believed that our money doesn't matter all that much to MA. They don't really need us. If they did, they would listen much more, and player retention would be a priority. EU is just a front for something else. It is the only logical explanation.
 

Msturlese

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I think that the 2.6m revenues could be 20m with same staff if properly managed, doing what the player base (customers) asked for and saving the game designer brain cells.
the cost to game can be reduced with more playerbase to loose a bit each player to the server hamsters
we hvae poor return because the 2.5m of revenues per year are to be extracted by 5000 ppl visa... with 100k players we could have 99.5% TT and MA make 10m per year and have more players than COD in 2 year.
it is just a living lab.. how much i can abuse playerbase anbd make them piss off before they go to play "hallo kitty oline "? :)
 

jetsina

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I think that the 2.6m revenues could be 20m with same staff if properly managed
I think it could be much more than that even. We are nowhere near the sweetspot of having millions of happy players at almost break-even, but total profits still way higher for MA and deed/share investors. Revenue isn't profit, though - or shouldn't be considered as such - but, well ...
 
D

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I recall way back in the day there were sponsors and advertisements in game.

What of trying this route again?

Instead of Omegaton, Genesis, ArMatrix, etc we'd have IBM, Sony, Oracle, etc (examples).

Skullcandy Viceroy... What about more of this?

With the added revenue the baseline return could be more in line with other MMORPG expectations of 99-100% returns allowing players to still compete against each other for markup.

There must be other ways to compensate MindArk for their development and maintenance of the platform without scraping it off the top of our returns...

Raising the baseline TT return alone would help retain A LOT of new players (and a better mentor program) as they'd no longer run their ammo dry and end up sweating for pennies an hour only to realize it's a boring AF way to play a game, quit and go entertain themselves elsewhere (especially since Sweat Gatherer profession is useless).
 

jwestonmoss

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I recall way back in the day there were sponsors and advertisements in game.

What of trying this route again?

Instead of Omegaton, Genesis, ArMatrix, etc we'd have IBM, Sony, Oracle, etc (examples).

Skullcandy Viceroy... What about more of this?

With the added revenue the baseline return could be more in line with other MMORPG expectations of 99-100% returns allowing players to still compete against each other for markup.

There must be other ways to compensate MindArk for their development and maintenance of the platform without scraping it off the top of our returns...

Raising the baseline TT return alone would help retain A LOT of new players (and a better mentor program) as they'd no longer run their ammo dry and end up sweating for pennies an hour only to realize it's a boring AF way to play a game, quit and go entertain themselves elsewhere (especially since Sweat Gatherer profession is useless).

They definitely need to review their business plan. What are our strategic strengths and weaknesses. Where are our opportunity areas.

This idea that they are somehow scared of drawing in a large population, or they want to "wait" until UE5 to bring them in, to me is silly (if it is even true). A total digital marketing strategy is needed.
 
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They definitely need to review their business plan. What are our strategic strengths and weaknesses. Where are our opportunity areas.

This idea that they are somehow scared of drawing in a large population, or they want to "wait" until UE5 to bring them in, to me is silly (if it is even true). A total digital marketing strategy is needed.
All they need to do is 'sack' Sally and create an 'ingame economy' department have a few employees on the payroll exclusively responsible to manage and create a growing universal economy - have an index of basic universal economic goods and make the wages of the 'economists' depend on the success of that index. Voila suddendly they will care that players do well and players who do well will promote the game with their success stories.
 

jetsina

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Shortest quote of all time?
Sometimes the word 'all' is the easiest of things for some, but the hardest and unlikliest things for others.
However, what do you mean by an index? Based on volumes traded, or what? Maybe crafted turnovers ... but even an index can be a massive mistake if it bubbles to a boom and then busts spectacularly. A long-lived game also requires a stability factor I think.
 

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my humble dissection
3 are the destiny of a looted item
1. it transforsm (used in a VP Fromula)
2. it is saved (for whatever reason)
3. it is dumped in TT for desperation

1 is the healthiest solution means that the item has a "marginal value" that is extracted in craft
2. it will be available at some point (not sure of the reasons, maybe someone thinks it might rise in value or prepare a large craft.. Thesaurization, no one cares of this amount
3. wasted, means that there is too much of this item in game

healthiest status of the economy is that 1 is 100%
pathologic is state 3 : all sinks into TT

lets see 100 items dropped.... the thesaurized (parked in storage) are not in the equation, no one gives a pec of those, if something is thesaurized, game need to drop more no point to let people "corner the market" it is stupid

then a simple ratio..... USED vs TT .... it should be 20 to 80% .... as it rises need to drop more, if it falls need to drop less.... MU floats within a boundary that allow economy to survive
let's say... Lesser Elysia, is the base of NI quests, i found myself crafting 5000 pieces per week
it depend on Lysterium and Sweat
lysterium will bnever be TT because supercommon in BPs... but it could go from 100.20 to 105%.. if Lysterium goes to 110 all economy of armatrix suffer... it if goes to 100.20 means that there is too much mineral around...
all this for all the resources.. if a resource is TT more than a phisiological 25% of loot... it needs to be reduced and mobsnter should drop something that is in need instead.
that automatically balances total return for hutners, that see some MU because loot rarer materials.
it can be automatically driiven... numbers......
 

jambon

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EU needs, as others have mentioned, to think about ways to generate MU for players.

This is such a fallacy... You see the thing about markup is... when you're making it, someone else is paying it. After a hunt you want a better markup to help bridge the gap on your losses. But before going on a hunt, people want to keep their costs as low as possible (RE: pay the least markup possible so the net return is higher since markup is not returned in loot).

The numbers will never balance out regardless of loot markup. The numbers just keep going up and up people think markup is the problem.

Check this example:

You spend 100 ped. (50 on a L gun and 50 in ammo). You get 80 ped TT in return. In order to break even you sell your stuff to a gun crafter for 125%. Now, the gun crafter usually spends 115% on this stuff but now they just had their cost got up 10% so to cover that, they raise the price of their guns. So now the 50 ped gun you buy suddenly costs 55 peds. You buy the gun and ammo now for 105 peds. Because your extra cost is in markup it's not returned in loot so you go out and still only get 80 peds back. Now you sell that loot for 131%... and in turn the gun crafter raises the price of the gun another to cover that extra cost. Now your gun is 59 peds.... and on and on because no one is gonna eat extra cost just so you can break even.

The real problem is (long term) you're never getting back more than you put in TT value. And only the ultra rare loots will ever have a significant markup. And that can never change unless the completely change their business model.

In reality the need for markup and profit is an illusion because 99% of the player base is only ever interested in getting enough money back that they can go out again looking for the big one. Most have just accepted they will probably never withdraw and they are happy with that. Just knowing that they CAN and that there is hope for the big 6-digit hof is enough to keep many going. People on the forum talk about how getting 95% returns would be the "ultimate" with complete lack of care that 95% is still a LOSS. And in time even a 5% loss results in 100% loss unless you get very lucky.

What MA need to do to make people happy is find way that peoples money can go further. And this is all about going against the whole core believe of the game that everything must be a real cash economy. I think the BattleSim was a step in the right direction but it was abandoned and far from perfect. I see a system where people pay a small entry fee for an instance or even that results in long amounts of gameplay is the solution many people would prefer even if they don't want to admit it. As great as a real cash economy where everything involves money is it also can suck ass because EVERYTHING costs money you don't have lol There are very few (if any) fulfilling/exciting activities in the game that don't cost money.

One idea I had was MA sponsored LA events. Take a few thousand peds out of the loot pool each day and have several events on LA's where there is a guaranteed HoF for the winner. Especially if you married this idea to the BatSim. An instance where there is a single entry fee and you get some sweet ass gear and fight some massive mobs without paying per kill. Throw in an active combat mechanic where player skill actually matters and you've got yourself a hoedown!
 

Ivo Jahrumble

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However, what do you mean by an index? Based on volumes traded, or what? Maybe crafted turnovers ...
2006/2014 pre EP metal res. 107% if that isn´t an index, what is? life blood off all crafted L items. At this point the only macroscopic problem was hunting loot not having enough use.
but even an index can be a massive mistake if it bubbles to a boom and then busts spectacularly. A long-lived game also requires a stability factor I think.
What busted that "bubble" was the lvl13 FOMA exploit and its fix. cap on TT return and loot 2.0.

Pre 2014 miners could come home after a run and have crafters ready to take all his stuff, trade for amps and keep on going.

After 2014 we are all stuck looking at auction cause nothing sells. All professions are stalled in a basic economic level. Instead of several sources to spend loot. We have EPs and tech gizmos 8. Thats entropia economy right now.

Fix it!
 
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