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Possible Land Area Exploit?

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Ben Tony Dover

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Ben Tony Dover
I recently purchased the land area El Dorado (AOL #37) on January 9th. Earlier today while placing energized fertilizer into my land area, I noticed a player by the name "black sheep" mob training my creatures. I than observed this player running off my land area before killing the mobs. So I thought to myself, even though he's killing my mobs, is he still paying the 3% hunting tax I set on my land area because technically, he's not on my land area anymore? Having paid 120K PED for this land area and paying an additional 750 PED a month in operational costs associated with energized fertilizer consumption, you're telling me all someone has to do is walk off a land area and not have to pay any hunting taxes? Must be nice! I would also like to mention that this was the same player who recently took 2nd place in my last land event "survive the horde" https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forum/index.php?media/possibleexploit-jpg.335516/full
Wonder if this had anything to do with that event win and I wonder how long has this has been going on for?
 
My understanding is if a mob spawns on a LA and someone drags them of the LA then shoots the mob they are still paying tax. There was a very old thread about LA tax on this forum somewhere I think I read it there
 
yes, it was confirmed a long while back somewhere in the forums if you dig deep enough. Maybe Mindark can speak up... I think they may even have to pay tax if mob spawns just over the border from the LA if the center of the spawn is in the LA.
 
I don't remember a statement about mobs, but there was a statement about mining claims spawned outside of LA (they are still taxed). So I'd assume the mobs work same way.
Lavawalker said:
14 Jul 2008 Entropia Support:
Hello Sparkz,
Thank you for your interesting questions.About Hunting related taxes, unfortunately we can not answer to these interesting questions as they have to do with some of the Entropia universe's system. However, regarding the Mining Related Taxes, the tax is calculated from the land area that surrounds the position where the resource was found (where the claim marker appears). It does not matter where the bomb was dropped. And, finally, Found Items Loot - Spacecrafts, yes, they are not taxed.
Kind regards,
Entropia Support
Click to expand...
 
Yes he is still paying the tax. Mobs are controlled by a spawn controller, which the dev team set up for all values
like where it gonna spawn, what will be spawn, how many can be spawned and so on.
Players can modify some values like what and how many can be spawned.
It doesn't matter where it will be killed since it is tied to that controller and in loot calculation these
extra parameters like tax are included.
 
Joat said:
Players can modify some values like what and how many can be spawned.
Click to expand...

Really? how do players do that? how do we modify what spawns? (sounds astonishing to me !) or do you mean by changing DNA in an LA?
 
Oh, ElDorado swapped hands? Was on table some time ago, decided not to buy it. Its Pluma, Saba and Trip land with some killable Argo and Merp, right?

Whatya gonna do with it? Big Trip? Pluma? I personally had no idea what to do with those DNAs... anyways great to see the land being actively managed again.

I.
 
Each crowd has a revival zone. Even if the mob is born up close, but outside of them they belong to your area. Thats my logic.

Try to kill a mob by yourself from your area outside it and share the result.
 
So.. if I mobtrain all the mobs from the land and have a huge red dot filled with mobs.. I logoff.. Somebody else comes along and thinks, Hey cool , a dense spawn of "fill in mobname" and kills them all.. Then this player pays tax? While never having set foot in the landarea or having knowledge that this herd belongs to a landarea?
 
Spawn said:
So.. if I mobtrain all the mobs from the land and have a huge red dot filled with mobs.. I logoff.. Somebody else comes along and thinks, Hey cool , a dense spawn of "fill in mobname" and kills them all.. Then this player pays tax? While never having set foot in the landarea or having knowledge that this herd belongs to a landarea?
Click to expand...
There are probably some timers to controll how long a mob can be outside the area that it belongs to (or at least there should be one).
If there are no interactions with it it will be reseted and spawned again within the navigation area.
If the second player comes before it is reseted that the scenario you mentioned is probably possible.
Another reason why there should be a timer is another scenario, a player can gather up all mobs and drag them away so non can hunt in the
navigation area, owner of LA willthen lose tax/income.
Rules that controll when they should be reseted can be based on damage done also. Haven't tested this so I have no idea how EU handles this.
 
Spawn said:
So.. if I mobtrain all the mobs from the land and have a huge red dot filled with mobs.. I logoff.. Somebody else comes along and thinks, Hey cool , a dense spawn of "fill in mobname" and kills them all.. Then this player pays tax? While never having set foot in the landarea or having knowledge that this herd belongs to a landarea?
Click to expand...
Recently saw few falxangius at pvp area ... i started killimg after killing like 8 i realized they came out from an LA and i have been scammed :D
 
When a mob is generated is has an origin location tagged to it, and the tax will go to whoever owns the origin, no matter where it ends up.

I always find it funny, how they think they would be cheaper in non tax (which is just a hidden tax that funds CLD revenue with a 20% return, when you already beat the tax by at least 2%)

There is no double taxation, taxed lands are cheaper than non tax (hidden rate), Entire control of the tax for the area is what you buy, and what the PP lets go, for the money.

Most owners do not even understand this.

I wish MA would come out and clarify the tax system for people, I understand why they don't (20% ROI), but it would help.

Owners have 2 disadvantages,
PP can hide their tax rate when you cannot.
MA is competing for revenue with you.
 
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forgo said:
When a mob is generated is has an origin location tagged to it, and the tax will go to whoever owns the origin, no matter where it ends up.

I always find it funny, how they think they would be cheaper in non tax (which is just a hidden tax that funds CLD revenue with a 20% return, when you already beat the tax by at least 2%)

There is no double taxation, taxed lands are cheaper than non tax (hidden rate), Entire control of the tax for the area is what you buy, and what the PP lets go, for the money.

Most owners do not even understand this.

I wish MA would come out and clarify the tax system for people, I understand why they don't (20% ROI), but it would help.

Owners have 2 disadvantages,
PP can hide their tax rate when you cannot.
MA is competing for revenue with you.
Click to expand...
MA has confirmed tax is ON TOP of their cut. Loot is NOT better on LAs
 
If you global on a mob that has been pulled out of a land area , it will show the original land area message in the global.
 
forgo said:
When a mob is generated is has an origin location tagged to it, and the tax will go to whoever owns the origin, no matter where it ends up.

I always find it funny, how they think they would be cheaper in non tax (which is just a hidden tax that funds CLD revenue with a 20% return, when you already beat the tax by at least 2%)

There is no double taxation, taxed lands are cheaper than non tax (hidden rate), Entire control of the tax for the area is what you buy, and what the PP lets go, for the money.

Most owners do not even understand this.

I wish MA would come out and clarify the tax system for people, I understand why they don't (20% ROI), but it would help.

Owners have 2 disadvantages,
PP can hide their tax rate when you cannot.
MA is competing for revenue with you.
Click to expand...
Unless you want to provide proof to your claim, It sounds like you are intentionally trying to mislead people in order to get more traffic to your land areas.
 
Hijacker27 said:
MA has confirmed tax is ON TOP of their cut. Loot is NOT better on LAs
Click to expand...
I feel like multipliers and item drops are more frequent on LAs, which I attributed to making up for the LA tax + also generating more revenue for LA owner but cannot confirm.
 
Hijacker27 said:
MA has confirmed tax is ON TOP of their cut. Loot is NOT better on LAs
Click to expand...
Are you sure about that?

Keep in mind my Real life net worth has increased by seven figures as a result of my understanding of the game...
I actually track all data and have for years... deriving the tax is fairly easy with high eco weaponry.

Read it again. They are specifically vague. I have confirmation from MA as otherwise....from BEFORE when they owned CLD income. Which is why they are vague...all land areas compete for their income.

It just takes some thought to realize they system design, the patent (yes there are apatents for the game) is based on real world banking, which already answers alot.

Why would Caly or a PP sell land? To get capital in the form of cash for development.
What are they sellling? The ability to control the tax like they can hidden.
Why would in investor buy land if its double taxed, how would they generate capital on demand?
They need investors to have incentive to inject capital.
Is a PVP land area that is won the same as one that is purchased with a deed involved?
No, you didn't win ownership, you only won the ability to tax temporarily, and its a tax you don't fully own.
Do they still get ongoing revenue for the land?
Yes, but the owner pays that maintenance in the form of fertilizer, not in the form of tax on the player.
Think of it as MA becomes the HOA, you become the landlord and set your own rent to cover the HOA fee, and to pay back the mortgage, or whatever the capital form is.

Absolutely amazing after all these years people have been going off bad assumptions and didnt actually verify it, when its real money involved.

There is one last thing to consider, Treasure Island sold for what 8 million PED?
That area is divided by roughly 16 areas, which means Mindark has valued them at 500k each, and they sold out in 5 minutes.

If what you are saying is true....there are a lot of people who just bought a double tax disadvantage over Calypso.
Which is highly unlikely MA would set themselves up against investors like that at 500k per area.
The tax there is Hidden because by them keeping management, they can help align the investor return as needed.
The % based management fee the deed holders pay MA essentially puts MA in the position of managing that return for the best interests of deed holders.
 
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forgo said:
Are you sure about that?

Keep in mind my Real life net worth has increased by seven figures as a result of my understanding of the game...
I actually track all data and have for years... deriving the tax is fairly easy with high eco weaponry.

Read it again. They are specifically vague. I have confirmation from MA as otherwise....from BEFORE when they owned CLD income. Which is why they are vague...all land areas compete for their income.

It just takes some thought to realize they system design, the patent (yes there are apatents for the game) is based on real world banking, which already answers alot.

Why would Caly or a PP sell land? To get capital in the form of cash for development.
What are they sellling? The ability to control the tax like they can hidden.
Why would in investor buy land if its double taxed, how would they generate capital on demand?
They need investors to have incentive to inject capital.
Is a PVP land area that is won the same as one that is purchased with a deed involved?
No, you didn't win ownership, you only won the ability to tax temporarily, and its a tax you don't fully own.
Do they still get ongoing revenue for the land?
Yes, but the owner pays that maintenance in the form of fertilizer, not in the form of tax on the player.
Think of it as MA becomes the HOA, you become the landlord and set your own rent to cover the HOA fee, and to pay back the mortgage, or whatever the capital form is.

Absolutely amazing after all these years people have been going off bad assumptions and didnt actually verify it, when its real money involved.

There is one last thing to consider, Treasure Island sold for what 8 million PED?
That area is divided by roughly 16 areas, which means Mindark has valued them at 500k each, and they sold out in 5 minutes.

If what you are saying is true....there are a lot of people who just bought a double tax disadvantage over Calypso.
Which is highly unlikely MA would set themselves up against investors like that at 500k per area.
The tax there is Hidden because by them keeping management, they can help align the investor return as needed.
The % based management fee the deed holders pay MA essentially puts MA in the position of managing that return for the best interests of deed holders.
Click to expand...
So since I get 97% on all of caly, and any pvp, I should buy an LA, tax it 10%, only hunt there myself and make 107%? Or even better, by your logic that 3% is MAs tax so I should always get 100% on any LA I own, right? It's a shame someone hasn't actually tested this with public data at length....oh wait $5 did. It doesn't show this.

Also please post 10mil+ ped in withdrawal history if you're gunna slang cred brah
 
forgo said:
Are you sure about that?

Keep in mind my Real life net worth has increased by seven figures as a result of my understanding of the game...
I actually track all data and have for years... deriving the tax is fairly easy with high eco weaponry.

Read it again. They are specifically vague. I have confirmation from MA as otherwise....from BEFORE when they owned CLD income. Which is why they are vague...all land areas compete for their income.

It just takes some thought to realize they system design, the patent (yes there are apatents for the game) is based on real world banking, which already answers alot.

Why would Caly or a PP sell land? To get capital in the form of cash for development.
What are they sellling? The ability to control the tax like they can hidden.
Why would in investor buy land if its double taxed, how would they generate capital on demand?
They need investors to have incentive to inject capital.
Is a PVP land area that is won the same as one that is purchased with a deed involved?
No, you didn't win ownership, you only won the ability to tax temporarily, and its a tax you don't fully own.
Do they still get ongoing revenue for the land?
Yes, but the owner pays that maintenance in the form of fertilizer, not in the form of tax on the player.
Think of it as MA becomes the HOA, you become the landlord and set your own rent to cover the HOA fee, and to pay back the mortgage, or whatever the capital form is.

Absolutely amazing after all these years people have been going off bad assumptions and didnt actually verify it, when its real money involved.

There is one last thing to consider, Treasure Island sold for what 8 million PED?
That area is divided by roughly 16 areas, which means Mindark has valued them at 500k each, and they sold out in 5 minutes.

If what you are saying is true....there are a lot of people who just bought a double tax disadvantage over Calypso.
Which is highly unlikely MA would set themselves up against investors like that at 500k per area.
The tax there is Hidden because by them keeping management, they can help align the investor return as needed.
The % based management fee the deed holders pay MA essentially puts MA in the position of managing that return for the best interests of deed holders.
Click to expand...
False information which should be removed from forum asap for misleading people to think taxed lands have better tt return.

In translation it is a scam.
 
Sulje said:
False information which should be removed from forum asap for misleading people to think taxed lands have better tt return.

In translation it is a scam.
Click to expand...

There are two ways to confirm whether it is true or not:
1. Statement by MindArk (there is none?)
2. Compare big numbers of normal vs "taxed" land.

I did some hunting on taxed land, and noticed that the returns were not much different from un-taxed land. However, I can't make
any assumptions based on these numbers. Need to collect a lot of data to actually verify.
 
tl;dr mindark did one statment about this

1 - any mob that respaw inside land area have they uniqueid tied landareaid , in this case not matter if mob is drag out
2 - Any tax is put on after you loot calculation , is direct if you setup give you tt 90% and tax is 5% be 85%. no A or B its is

i spend 10-20min look at this posts , but i get lazy , you can believe on me... or put you tinfoill hat
 
Here is the "official" post by Charlie - you can interpret it how you want!:

How do LA taxes work?

Yeah, you lost me on this bit. Telling people who have questions about how their real money is being spent that they should stop caring and just have fun is hardly an argument. Like restaurants that don't write prices on their menus. Yeah no. Good thing you only read two sentences then... But I...
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com

"It works as mentioned a couple of times in this thread. Land areas simply take a cut based on the set tax amount from each loot from creatures spawned in the area or mining claims found in the area."

Clearly I am a noob with forums so I don't know how to quote from a different post :)
 
"It works as mentioned a couple of times in this thread. Land areas simply take a cut based on the set tax amount from each loot from creatures spawned in the area or mining claims
found in the area."
Click to expand...

"Take a cut" - But from where?
Does it take a cut from the existing revenue/costs that goes to MindArk, or is it then actually an additional tax, above the existing TT costs/taxes?

A better wording would then be "takes an additional cut".

If you are getting double-taxed at an LA, I guess there is no reason to hunt mobs at LA's which you already can find elsewhere,
if there are untaxed spawns with decent maturities and densities.
 
Mike Kaffeslukarn Morazi said:
"Take a cut" - But from where?
Click to expand...
From your loot.

If there is a 5% tax on a LA, that means your loot have had 5% taken away from it.

To make it easier to understand;

Non taxed LA global 100 ped
the same multiplier on a 5% taxed la, global value will be 95 ped.

95 ped to you, 5 ped to LA owner.


MA still has their cut, it was never taken away. It's certainly not "Only player owned LA-cut instead of MA"...

MA gets their cut, LA owner gets their cut, then you get your loot.


LA with tax is more expensive than hunting on non taxed areas. If you believe that "MA takes no cut" on taxed LA's.... keep dreaming.




Mike Kaffeslukarn Morazi said:
If you are getting double-taxed at an LA, I guess there is no reason to hunt mobs at LA's which you already can find elsewhere,
Click to expand...

Bingo. The amount of people who simply does not understand this is quite frightening.

Althought I would not call it "double-taxed".

MA always has their income from your activity. If you also want to pay a part to a LA owner, thats up to you. It better be an event, or some very special mob imo :)
 
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A way MA get their cut as it seems to be called is from the energized dung (or whatever its called).
Seems to me if an LA was really double taxxed they would not nearly be as expensive as they are.
But i have no info to base this on so pure speculation on my part.
 
B-K said:
A way MA get their cut as it seems to be called is from the energized dung (or whatever its called).
Seems to me if an LA was really double taxxed they would not nearly be as expensive as they are.
But i have no info to base this on so pure speculation on my part.
Click to expand...
They are expensive as they are because there are enough rubes out there that keep hunting on them
 
B-K said:
A way MA get their cut as it seems to be called is from the energized dung (or whatever its called).
Seems to me if an LA was really double taxxed they would not nearly be as expensive as they are.
But i have no info to base this on so pure speculation on my part.
Click to expand...

There are mining LA's not used a single energized fertilizier since years but was mined nonstop.
There are LA's using 10x more energized fertilizer daily than other LA's based on number of DNA's and maturity / density settings.
That is just cost of operation, not MA's cut, MA earns more on global naming than on fertilizer.

No wonder why the new 8 million Ped TI island was converted into non LA version before selling it, instead keeping it as a taxed LA like CP.

LA's are double taxed. LA owner says it is not so you go and hunt there, its not far from something that i would call trust scam.
 
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