Power leveling

Deemer

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It's OK, not everyone knows to face north when looting the creature ;)

I understand that there are people who play for few pec/hour. But I didn't expect you not to test the "exploit".. so I doubt whether you are trying to just cover up the facts by shifting the view point of the topic.

The door is open.. someone will test this and will take it for themselves. Keep your dignity, I see that you are helping in the forum, so I do not understand in which direction your comment is blowing.
 

Evey

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By default, we assume that with a high level MOB gives more experience, but this is not so true. The value of the experience mainly depends on the Attributes of the MOB as its level of course is a multiplier. But if you hunt a MOB level 20 which Agility points are very low, this level is useless. And of course mostly depends from the weapon you will using. For example..

......

This info is very powerful for the game like this so keep it in secret and don't share the info!


Happy Holidays and Good Luck.
I understand that there are people who play for few pec/hour. But I didn't expect you not to test the "exploit".. so I doubt whether you are trying to just cover up the facts by shifting the view point of the topic.

The door is open.. someone will test this and will take it for themselves. Keep your dignity, I see that you are helping in the forum, so I do not understand in which direction your comment is blowing.
This is a weird thought you had and you want someone to test it so in order to determine someone you make that false claim. How about YOU test it and put some numbers on the table if you want people to take you seriously before going full Illuminati here?

EVEN is this had any slight truth in it, for me, for example, it would have 0 value. My aim was to skill my gun only and to do it in profit. Skilling in profit has more power leveling element in it than any combination you can find.

Just as when you make an accusation, it's you that needs to prove it, not the other party to prove you wrong. Same here, saying something this far from what we know and tested, needs you to prove it first, before anyone trying to prove you wrong (or right).
I have a weapon I like and if I find a mob that has something I want, I'll beat the crap out of that mob regardless of the skill it gives anyway, skills will come and avatar growth is not just skills, the skills are the last part you need.
 

WoenK

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All facts are in OP WoenK.
erhhh...

Sorry. I do not see any
number of mobs killed
TT Value of all skills before and after
Weapons used
Decay and ammo spend
Time spend
Location of tests
etc.etc

I am not good in maths, but alone from my time here on forum I do know that those things in the first post do not have to do anything with statitics and are not not even relately anyhting to a scientific aproach.
Its a hunch at best, not supported by any numbers to look at
 

eyeshark

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Just popping in here to share a thought I have as the tone of some comments is fairly aggressive/negative.

Deemer seems like a legitimately friendly and curious guy and seems to be eager to help anyone willing to listen. I think there are some language barrier/translation issues that people should consider when reading his posts. At times I have trouble following his logic, but I won’t hold that against him.
 

WoenK

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Аs you can see there is a difference in the use of different weapons.
I said before that I have no claims for accurate calculations. But if there are people who are interested and make a small utility program to read the skills acquired from chat.log, what you want will be more achievable.


Let us now focus on the topic and if anyone is willing to participate, let it be on the topic.
What do you mean "program that reads skills aquired from chat log" ?
Simply do a scan before the hunt and after.
 
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39% rifle / (39%+25%)=64% longblades / (50%+40%)=90% electrokinesis
Those are the contribution rates from chipping optimiser website.
If you only look at partial skillgains and not the whole picture you will only get a weighted view according to the contribution you choose.
For a more accurate test result i recommend looking at all the TT skillgains from all the skills related to the tested professions.
The above is related to the difference in gains between the tested professions.

Now in regards to the difference in gain between the tested mobs on such small amounts i think there could be a tendancy according to what you assume but still inconclusive without a larger sample size and looking at all skills.
 

Deemer

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I think understand what you mean, where can be my mistake.. so ok.. I'm going to do a few days of MF and Rifle reports, enough to include a planetary cycle, to catch enough high/low rates. Screenshots before and after on all skills.. There is a high probability of human error in the counting of kills, so I exclude it... with the old system it might have been more achievable .. The costs may be enough to compare?!

Anything else I'm missing?
 

WoenK

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I think understand what you mean, where can be my mistake.. so ok.. I'm going to do a few days of MF and Rifle reports, enough to include a planetary cycle, to catch enough high/low rates. Screenshots before and after on all skills.. There is a high probability of human error in the counting of kills, so I exclude it... with the old system it might have been more achievable .. The costs may be enough to compare?!

Anything else I'm missing?
Why not use the skill scanner instead of screenshots?
Way easier to compare the progression
 

Deemer

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The hunting runs are in progress.. if anyone is still interested and wondering what's going on.. I started the 1st run with 500 ped of ammo + the chip repairs and I didn't expect it to take so long to spend them on puny mobs :handgun: :loco: :computer:

I have data from Pyro and now I use a Pistol instead of a Rifle. The reason is that the my Pyro and Handgun are equal in level.. DMG they do also.. everything is equal. I keep the loot data of the runs, because there was a comment for the TT return.. the data is interesting, but will take few days more while i finish this run. I think it doesn't make sense to upload only data from one if there is no second for comparison.
 

Deemer

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You were right the effect of the waves of skills and the dynamic effect had an impact on my first tests. I removed everything above so as not to affect anyone later. I have pictures of the skills, but I don't think they are needed in this case.

I used loot pills to keep track of time. In both cases it is over 65 hours, but it is not 100% correct by side factors. Below each type are TT result of hunts, but i dont include the pills there.

I using [Corrosive Attack Nanochip 1] and TT Handgun.

Pyrokinesis 77.31
Bravado2.47
Courage 2.90
Dexterity 2.57
Serendipity 5.76
Concentration 8.73
Power Catalyst14.00
Mindforce Harmony8.08
Inflict Ranged Damage2.67
Ranged Damage Assessment2.43
Anatomy13.02
Wounding6.16
Total skills TT 146.1

TT Start 560.20
TT End 513.56
loss -46.64


===============================================
Handgun 29.35
Courage 3.04
Dexterity 2.40
Perception 1.47
Serendipity 3.63
Aim 3.29
Combat Reflexes 2.55
Coolness 4.25
Combat Sense 3.95
Marksmanship 14.30
Weapons Handling 7.30
Laser Weaponry Technology 31.72
Inflict Ranged Damage 3.77
Ranged Damage Assessment 11.99
Wounding 9.09
Anatomy 15.89
Total skills TT 147.99

TT Start 559.30
TT End 513.56
-45.74
 
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eyeshark

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You were right the effect of the waves of skills and the dynamic effect had an impact on my first tests. I removed everything above so as not to affect anyone later. I have pictures of the skills, but I don't think they are needed in this case.

I used loot pills to keep track of time. In both cases it is over 65 hours, but it is not 100% correct by side factors. Below each type are TT result of hunts, but i dont include the pills there.


Pyrokinesis 77.31
Bravado2.47
Courage 2.90
Dexterity 2.57
Serendipity 5.76
Concentration 8.73
Power Catalyst14.00
Mindforce Harmony8.08
Inflict Ranged Damage2.67
Ranged Damage Assessment2.43
Anatomy13.02
Wounding6.16
Total skills TT 146.1

TT Start 560.20
TT End 513.56
loss -46.64


===============================================
Handgun 29.35
Courage 3.04
Dexterity 2.40
Perception 1.47
Serendipity 3.63
Aim 3.29
Combat Reflexes 2.55
Coolness 4.25
Combat Sense 3.95
Marksmanship 14.30
Weapons Handling 7.30
Laser Weaponry Technology 31.72
Inflict Ranged Damage 3.77
Ranged Damage Assessment 11.99
Wounding 9.09
Anatomy 15.89
Total skills TT 147.99

TT Start 559.30
TT End 513.56
-45.74
So what weapon does each table represent? I presume a combustible chip and a pistol respectively. What mob(s) were hunted (I ask this as I understand your theory was that you get more skills of certain types against certain mobs)? And finally, what is your takeaway from these results? Was your hypothesis confirmed?

thanks!
 

Deemer

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There are many pitfalls ..

So.. when you discover a new skill, it starts to gain skills of 0.4000+ (i.e. 1.0000 experience points = 1 skill point). The first 550 skill points from each acquisition, these experience points decrease. Then we have periods of increase of 200 skill points, then decrease of 300 skill points... i.e. after the first 550, each subsequent interval of 500 is repeated.. increase and decrease (200/300).

In these intervals, the system seems to balance the acquired skills with the rest of the profession/professions.

These intervals are a big factor, because when the points increase, at the same time their value decreases... it is difficult to determine for such a short period and only through the "Progress menu". Also each skill is on different diapason(i.e. it take different TT values).

The dynamic rate in game is factor and it have no equivalent for any of next tests. Even if i chip out skills to X value to be the same like before for the next skill test or even just repeat the same test... i believe the values will be different... The current TT of handgun before the weekend was less % of this one on Pyrokinesis. But the wave of the weekend just change this and you can see the result.
-Each skill at the time of detecting/starting the test is in a different condition.
-The instinct for the short-distance mobs.. for more points per hour when using Sword..
-Even when you spend X peds and you acquired more or less for these peds. The system will compensate this gives bigger or less SIB.. short or long periods(3-20 mins).
...
So is really difficult without additional program which can catch each of our actions.
In the short tests, I also did not report all this because I was prejudiced. But the skills Electro and Sword made me think..

Rather, the scanning profession can be defined as.. nonsensical... As well as the menu of the attributes of Mob...

Maybe the equivalent of that..




Better forget of this topic =)
 

eyeshark

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There are many pitfalls ..

So.. when you discover a new skill, it starts to gain skills of 0.4000+ (i.e. 1.0000 experience points = 1 skill point). The first 550 skill points from each acquisition, these experience points decrease. Then we have periods of increase of 200 skill points, then decrease of 300 skill points... i.e. after the first 550, each subsequent interval of 500 is repeated.. increase and decrease (200/300).

In these intervals, the system seems to balance the acquired skills with the rest of the profession/professions.

These intervals are a big factor, because when the points increase, at the same time their value decreases... it is difficult to determine for such a short period and only through the "Progress menu". Also each skill is on different diapason(i.e. it take different TT values).

The dynamic rate in game is factor and it have no equivalent for any of next tests. Even if i chip out skills to X value to be the same like before for the next skill test or even just repeat the same test... i believe the values will be different... The current TT of handgun before the weekend was less % of this one on Pyrokinesis. But the wave of the weekend just change this and you can see the result.
-Each skill at the time of detecting/starting the test is in a different condition.
-The instinct for the short-distance mobs.. for more points per hour when using Sword..
-Even when you spend X peds and you acquired more or less for these peds. The system will compensate this gives bigger or less SIB.. short or long periods(3-20 mins).
...
So is really difficult without additional program which can catch each of our actions.
In the short tests, I also did not report all this because I was prejudiced. But the skills Electro and Sword made me think..

Rather, the scanning profession can be defined as.. nonsensical... As well as the menu of the attributes of Mob...

Maybe the equivalent of that..




Better forget of this topic =)
Well you did some tests and it seems you got an answer. Very interesting read. Keep thinking outside the box!
 

WoenK

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looking at the tables...you really got roughly 150 PED TT in skill value ?
On 500 PED runs ?
Those look rather like skills gained, which does say nothing about the skill value.
And where are the other skills ? Not even a fraction in jamming, dodge or evade?

And why screen shots?
Use the skill scanner http://jdegre.net/pe/scanner/
Do a donation and you can even keep track easier when using the chipping optimizer
 

Deemer

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looking at the tables...you really got roughly 150 PED TT in skill value ?
On 500 PED runs ?
Those look rather like skills gained, which does say nothing about the skill value.
And where are the other skills ? Not even a fraction in jamming, dodge or evade?
Some things in the game seem illogical at first glance.. that's why I look for others, such as the attributes in the topic.. After the restart I will log in to be scanned if you want to confirm something yourself.. i am at RT, will be at Lagoon.


And why screen shots?
Use the skill scanner http://jdegre.net/pe/scanner/
Do a donation and you can even keep track easier when using the chipping optimizer
Yes, I know, but I don't like additional applications if it's not from a licensed company .. I don't know when it will be Q1 .. but I can make an exception if MA confirms that I have no problem using this app. I'm still thinking about it... for now my priority is to raise 80+ of my attributes while they fix Meta, because it doesn't work for me now =)



OPS..sry.. it is for another topic! :ROFLMAO:

 

Deemer

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I can't see the skills in the picture well... can you confirm whether they can be seen good or not.


There is another link in case you cant see the skills good like me..



1st column are screens from begin.
2nd are Pyro skills at end..
3rd Handgun skills at end.
 
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WoenK

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Some things in the game seem illogical at first glance.. that's why I look for others, such as the attributes in the topic.. After the restart I will log in to be scanned if you want to confirm something yourself.. i am at RT, will be at Lagoon.
Absolutely nothing illogical there, if you take a deeper look into https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forum/index.php?forums/skills.90/

TT Value of skills has not been defined by the skill value you would gain in a certain skill but by the TT PED value of a filled ESI.
How else could one compare your 30 Handgun gain to my 0.0001 gain spending the same amount?

Yes, I know, but I don't like additional applications if it's not from a licensed company .. I don't know when it will be Q1 .. but I can make an exception if MA confirms that I have no problem using this app. I'm still thinking about it... for now my priority is to raise 80+ of my attributes while they fix Meta, because it doesn't work for me now =)
hmmmm...you want somebody to have something analyse your skill gains, but it must be from a licensed company or if MA confirms that you have no problem using the app...

So a link to a skill scanning tool on the Official Planet Calypso Foum (owned by MA), which is stickified there, is not official enough ?
A tool that almost everybody here has been using for over a decade and does nothing else but analysing a screenshot, calculating the skill gains and their correspending (real) TT value ?


Sorry, but sounds kind of weak and lame.
Sounds kind of like everybody here but you has a weak mind for not finding something only you can find (even though they have had almost 18 years as a headstart), no sense for security for using untrusted apps (as if nobody of us ever checked if it was secure) and is breaking the rules (as if no one ever asked).
 

Deemer

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Precisely because it has been used for 10 years, I think about it, but if the new interface of Q1 changes things, this tool may not work .. even it doesn't make sense from other similar ones... we don't know what MA are doing at the moment, but they seem very engaged.

And I think there is a difference from an App, which is a connection to a server somewhere or not. I don't understand enough to be able to defend myself, so I prefer the easy approach(what is port:404?, i have no idea). Are you sure the server you are currently connected to is monitored daily? I think it can be hacked and its owner will not understand even after days, and during this period my door will be open for someone. At least that's how things look to me at first glance.

.. in this line of thinking, during this period of tests I realized that chat reading will work correctly only when learning a skill over 0.1000 .. and again it will not be very correct, because the characters after the fourth decimal (0.000012345 ..) will not to be calculated.
 

Deemer

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I have no idea what you mean by skill points. What they have in common in acquiring a skill depends mainly on multiple kills. How would you explain your own suspicion that I acquired 25% by skills of the amount spent?

In fact, I was trying to play 100-105% skill acquisition to reduce my losses and at the same time play for MU loot. But despite my attempts, if I don't sell skills even with a 95-96% return, I can't cover the loss of my game. While at a 92% return on tests the difference is obvious.

Also check the cost of the loot pills equals to the loss... This is my opinion about low and medium level trading!

Isn't the basic HP / level? Can other things be secondary? Punny kills are much more annoying, but obviously there is a difference. Can you confirm with the skill tool how much your acquired skills are for 560 ped?
 

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Precisely because it has been used for 10 years, I think about it, but if the new interface of Q1 changes things, this tool may not work .. even it doesn't make sense from other similar ones... we don't know what MA are doing at the moment, but they seem very engaged.

And I think there is a difference from an App, which is a connection to a server somewhere or not. I don't understand enough to be able to defend myself, so I prefer the easy approach(what is port:404?, i have no idea). Are you sure the server you are currently connected to is monitored daily? I think it can be hacked and its owner will not understand even after days, and during this period my door will be open for someone. At least that's how things look to me at first glance.

.. in this line of thinking, during this period of tests I realized that chat reading will work correctly only when learning a skill over 0.1000 .. and again it will not be very correct, because the characters after the fourth decimal (0.000012345 ..) will not to be calculated.
If you would have taken the least amount of time to find out what the app does, you would know that it does not even need an internet connection, storing your skills on the server is a "premium" feature. it scans a screenshot of your skills and calculates them, nothing more.
And f you had read a bit on the skills forum, you would have noticed how skills work.

I got no suspician that you aqurired 25% more skills.
Your are simply not calculating right... 1.0000 Skillgain when that skill is at 1 has almost no value, 1.0000 skillgain when that skill is at 20000 can buy probably the best unlimted gun in game.
 

Deemer

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If you would have taken the least amount of time to find out what the app does, you would know that it does not even need an internet connection, storing your skills on the server is a "premium" feature. it scans a screenshot of your skills and calculates them, nothing more.
And f you had read a bit on the skills forum, you would have noticed how skills work.

I got no suspician that you aqurired 25% more skills.
Your are simply not calculating right... 1.0000 Skillgain when that skill is at 1 has almost no value, 1.0000 skillgain when that skill is at 20000 can buy probably the best unlimted gun in game.

I told you my point of view about the program. I use the site when I need it, maybe I will use the App if there are no changes in the next update that are affected. But first I will ask for personal confirmation from the MA support. As well as a few questions that came to my mind from your comment .. Such as why he wants a login and I do not need the Internet, as you say. I guess they have reviewed the code that I will not understand and will answer me.

Looking at my comments on the topic, where do you think is my misunderstanding on skills and professions?
 

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Looking at my comments on the topic, where do you think is my misunderstanding on skills and professions?
You do not seem to understand the difference between skill value gained and TT value of that skill value.
The higher you go up the lower the skill value gets, which does not mean that the TT value gets less.
I mean, most of my skill gains in AGI look like 0.00000 and from time to time a 0.00001 , does not mean I get nothing, it is just because at 91 AGI it gets slwoer to get up .
Those 0.00000 might correspodend to a 0.1 for a total newcomer.

All in the skill forum including all tests done...al lot to read and learn
 

Deemer

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You do not seem to understand the difference between skill value gained and TT value of that skill value.
The higher you go up the lower the skill value gets, which does not mean that the TT value gets less.
I mean, most of my skill gains in AGI look like 0.00000 and from time to time a 0.00001 , does not mean I get nothing, it is just because at 91 AGI it gets slwoer to get up .
Those 0.00000 might correspodend to a 0.1 for a total newcomer.

All in the skill forum including all tests done...al lot to read and learn

Man, take it a little more seriously.

The rough calculations I make for the skills are enough for me, because my goal at the moment is different. The delusion I had in recent months about mob attributes is due to the dynamic rate and rough calculation of the main skill that is my focus, also has a significant impact on the wavelength range of a skill at the moment compared to other skills in the profession. These 3 components can affect even a long one-day test.

I'm grateful for your previous comments and John B comment for making me think. But what you are commenting on no longer sounds very serious to me.

Think about whether what you know from 2002 hasn't changed a bit and how... and not whether I know what the value is for a skill point of 500-501, 5800-5801, 8200-8201 and 9999-10000.

The wavelength is not an increasing constant but a variable...

4950-4951 = Implanting, required chip size: 0.14 PED
5000-5001 = Implanting, required chip size: 0.15 PED
5081-5082 = Implanting, required chip size: 0.14 PED
5110-5111 = Implanting, required chip size: 0.13 PED

I also know that if you now take 0.0001 agility from high level Laser Weapons ... if you use Power Fist which is in 1 point (entry level) then you will take .. from 0.0002-0.0010, because the attributes are not directly related to the TT value of the profession.

Accuracy is not my priority yet, I am new and expanding my knowledge. I have no problem being wrong. But I have a strange feeling that everyone except me knows the value of the dynamic rate in it current stage and calculates it .. this thing drives me crazy .. I want to know this variable too.

However, therefore i like the elastic joke above.. we rotate the elastic in a different way ... but the result is the same.

Greetings.
 

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What hes saying is its always been hp vs lvl for skill gains..

so for example a lvl1 mob with 10hp will yield greatly increased skill gains over a lvl1 mob with 10000hp, thats why farming punies gives incredible skill gains vs farming SK all day.

Its also based on decay or costs... i had a deciple complete mentoring from 0 in 2hrs once using my lvl100 gun and mod2600 fap.. the anat gains were crazy
The effect is not from any HP ratio, but rather the kill bonus.... more kills per hour will have more gains period. Your attributes will increase the gains as well.
 
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