News: Preview of Upcoming Interface Changes

[Ferial]

Why do clever people have to be even cleverer to work out something so stupid is going on?!

This is how this type of HUD hiding is usually implemented, so theres nothing weird or stupid about it. Usually theres very little overhead to generate the HUD so its usually not a problem. They have identified the underlying problem and are fixing it. This is the proper way to handle it. In my opinion.

What is stupid, however, is claiming something is stupid just because one does not understand it. Imho

 

[jetsina]

There are two topics mixed here. The underlying problem associated with weaps/mobs is being fixed, so they say, yes.
You write that usually there's very little overhead to generate the HUD, so ok, if we are talking well under a millisecond, np. However, MA (non-tech) relayed to us a much larger timeframe that devs are trying to cut down on. One doesn't have to know all the answers to see that there appears to be stupidity at least somewhere when compared to conventional implementations. That was sort of the point I was making.
Linguistically, I find the expression 'just because' will often tend to be somewhat ignorant and rarely right, imho, at least in what appears to be implied behind whatever remark is made. Maybe I'm not right in implying an implication, in which case, my bad

Ok, my close of the previous post was also from an implication, but I did ask if I was right about the scenario to begin with, and it still stands as a more general 'grudge' I have with life/ our own lifeform!
Thanks for helping to throw more light on this in your answer.

 

[NevadaJake]

This is a question for the MindArk Team:

In the new UI will we have to have an icon for a tool displayed on an action bar to also have it hot-keyed?

Currently, I have my Quad assigned to the number 4 on Number Pad. But I do not have an icon for it on screen. I also have my pet S0ph13 assigned to the Backspace key, but do not have an icon on screen for her.

Thank you

 

[Deleted member 55358]

This is a question for the MindArk Team:

In the new UI will we have to have an icon for a tool displayed on an action bar to also have it hot-keyed?

Currently, I have my Quad assigned to the number 4 on Number Pad. But I do not have an icon for it on screen. I also have my pet S0ph13 assigned to the Backspace key, but do not have an icon on screen for her.

Thank you

I believe MY said the keyboard layout setting were staying as is mostly and that the only difference is there will be a new bar with 1-10 that stays on screen now. that said if your item is on button 1-9 or 0 then it will be displayed on the bar.. anywhere else youd have to drag the icon there yourself.

 

[Phillip J-Fry]

I would love to have chat macros. A simple mapping of saved custom one line commands or messages that can be posted to the chat window with the press of a hotkey.

That is all.

 

[Deleted member 55358]

I would love to have chat macros. A simple mapping of saved custom one line commands or messages that can be posted to the chat window with the press of a hotkey.

That is all.

and emotes!

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

To answer your final question: "How can display something be faster than display nothing?"
For instance, if you do all the calculations to generate, and display something. only to then remove it from view.

It seams you do not know how a application generates the icons, stores them in a layer and displays them?
It was used 20 years ago to do stuff like that and it is still done that way. The Icons are not calculated for each frame instead they are generated once and stored in graka memory to displayed with each frame. The highlighting of the icons aswell is a simple manipulation of that icon in the layer.

If a programmer is doing it like you suggest he has the wrong job in the first place. Certainly no person who worked as a programmer for more than a month will generate graphics when he knows they will not be displayed. If no HUD is displayed then the HUD will certainly not be rendered otherwise the solution would not be a new HUD but a new Programmer who has more than a month of training.

 

[jetsina]

I would love to be able to like your comment Rafeale, but experiences behind the scenes at software developers suggests to me that:

• although some programmers really shouldn't be in the seats that they occupy,
• said programmers have been there for way way longer than a month and at some point only they can fathom the depths of how they have 'done' stuff.

Sigh.... - anyway, I still see no signs of an answer that deals with on-screen sizes of texts and icons. Is there such a thing as a 'laptop simulator' for devs with their fancy screens to artificially reduce their works of art to sizes we as players may be more used to?!

 

[Macintosh]

When some new screenshots or video?

 

[Xen]

When are these supposed to be implemented?

 

[endermigne]

I would love to have chat macros. A simple mapping of saved custom one line commands or messages that can be posted to the chat window with the press of a hotkey.

That is all.

But, only if channels get moderated in a way to limit lines per certain amount of seconds or something. OK, there is the up-key and it doesn't make that much difference, but it's an invitation to have your 20 or 100 buttons. Although you may be a nice person who won't abuse this, others are not.

 

[Sub-Zero]

When are these supposed to be implemented?

SoonTM

 

[WoenK]

It seams you do not know how a application generates the icons, stores them in a layer and displays them?
It was used 20 years ago to do stuff like that and it is still done that way. The Icons are not calculated for each frame instead they are generated once and stored in graka memory to displayed with each frame. The highlighting of the icons aswell is a simple manipulation of that icon in the layer.

If a programmer is doing it like you suggest he has the wrong job in the first place. Certainly no person who worked as a programmer for more than a month will generate graphics when he knows they will not be displayed. If no HUD is displayed then the HUD will certainly not be rendered otherwise the solution would not be a new HUD but a new Programmer who has more than a month of training.

Especially in something like CE over 12 years ago.
If the engine really was that stupid no one would have been able to play after the switch even with the highest end graphics card. Contrary to today one did not have any luxuries. Don't remember how many shader units I had that time, but I think I was at 512 which is more comparable to todays lowend laptop, and EU was playable.

 

[Deleted member 55358]

It seams you do not know how a application generates the icons, stores them in a layer and displays them?
It was used 20 years ago to do stuff like that and it is still done that way. The Icons are not calculated for each frame instead they are generated once and stored in graka memory to displayed with each frame. The highlighting of the icons aswell is a simple manipulation of that icon in the layer.

If a programmer is doing it like you suggest he has the wrong job in the first place. Certainly no person who worked as a programmer for more than a month will generate graphics when he knows they will not be displayed. If no HUD is displayed then the HUD will certainly not be rendered otherwise the solution would not be a new HUD but a new Programmer who has more than a month of training.

thats incorrect.. many of them show quantity's etc and need to be updated from inventory to be displayed accuratly at whatever interval that is set for.. possibly every frame who knows

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

thats incorrect.. many of them show quantity's etc and need to be updated from inventory to be displayed accuratly at whatever interval that is set for.. possibly every frame who knows

It seams you all have a little odd imagination how a frame is rendered and what a static image, displayed on top of it is and how the whole picture is rendered.
The time consuming part is the rendering of the environment and the shades, what is behind something else or the influence of the lighting etc.
To display a icon or having textures are tasks mostly done by the graphic card and their CPU which is specialy designed for this tasks and have special functions for things like display the Icon Overlay or change the colors of a icon etc.

1. Icons do not have a number which is changed on the fly, what you may mean are tooltips which is something else.
2. If you mean the amount of ammo or the progress bar / number for Codex / daylies / ammo they are not icons but also mostly a static image displayed on top of the rendered graphic and are rendered in a totally different way than the 3d world you are looking at.
3. The display of this changing numbers and progress bars are in no way so time consuming that they impact the FPS, already Windows 3.1 had built in functions to manipulate/change icons whitout any code to be programmed by the user of this function, already built in functions to generate Icon settings or change state of icon from normal to activated or inacrtive etc.

 

[Deleted member 55358]

It seams you all have a little odd imagination how a frame is rendered and what a static image, displayed on top of it is and how the whole picture is rendered.
The time consuming part is the rendering of the environment and the shades, what is behind something else or the influence of the lighting etc.
To display a icon or having textures are tasks mostly done by the graphic card and their CPU which is specialy designed for this tasks and have special functions for things like display the Icon Overlay or change the colors of a icon etc.

1. Icons do not have a number which is changed on the fly, what you may mean are tooltips which is something else.
2. If you mean the amount of ammo or the progress bar / number for Codex / daylies / ammo they are not icons but also mostly a static image displayed on top of the rendered graphic and are rendered in a totally different way than the 3d world you are looking at.
3. The display of this changing numbers and progress bars are in no way so time consuming that they impact the FPS, already Windows 3.1 had built in functions to manipulate/change icons whitout any code to be programmed by the user of this function, already built in functions to generate Icon settings or change state of icon from normal to activated or inacrtive etc.

well ive got all kinds of diff buttons personally that change often and are updated such vehicle respawn timers displayed on the buttons... summon buttons again with reuse timers and even pets all of which also display the button used to press them that also updates immediately when changed. Thats all i cna think of atm till i get this coffee into me... But things like the pvp and lootable lights etc are constantly being checked as well. With a game like this security and over checking things is almost required or you end up with more bugs and things like duping etc.

 

[Mega]

You have a clock on the bottom bar, but what time will it display - the user's Windows time or Mindark Time (ie GMT?)

I think you intend to show a video next, could you show the message center working and maybe HoF screen, auction and society terminal in it.

TIA

 

[Sub-Zero]

I think you intend to show a video next, could you show the message center working and maybe HoF screen, auction and society terminal in it.
TIA

Yes, but hopefully they also show new improvements after all our suggestions. Remember MA no need to rush it and as long as you release it this year it's fine we value quality not fast buggy and ugly UI.

 

[Mega]

Yes, but hopefully they also show new improvements after all our suggestions. Remember MA no need to rush it and as long as you release it this year it's fine we value quality not fast buggy and ugly UI.

I will be 'disappointed' to say the least if I see that 'Nuke' icon again either in a video or a screenshot after asking for feedback.

 

[Deleted member 55358]

You have a clock on the bottom bar, but what time will it display - the user's Windows time or Mindark Time (ie GMT?)

I think you intend to show a video next, could you show the message center working and maybe HoF screen, auction and society terminal in it.

TIA

Im kinda hoping its MA time on the clock or even a daytime/nighttime ingame thing be neat too! we have enough of our own time and clocks already

 

[Mega]

Im kinda hoping its MA time on the clock or even a daytime/nighttime ingame thing be neat too! we have enough of our own time and clocks already

MA time would be preferred, as we could all get used to meeting up for item trades at MA TIME and there would be no 'what time is that?'

However having it as an option would also work.

 

[alfa-alfa]

OK then I have some more infos to you:

Framerate Argo Cave, HUD, Weapon not drawn: 61 FPS

Framerate Argo Cave, no HUD, Weapon not drawn: 61 FPS

Framerate Argo Cave, HUD, Weapon drawn: 14 FPS

Framerate Argo Cave, no HUD, Weapon drawn: 14 FPS

So the difference in frame rate displayed between HUD and no HUD is 0 FPS at the moment.
The difference between crappy F algo active and not active is 47 FPS

PS 1: Already killed about 10 Argos so FPS is not down to 9 FPS
PS 2: FPS can be checked in the pictures in the lower left corner generated by NVIDIA driver.
PS 3: Normaly when you have non transparent Icons they are put into a layer which the graphic card simply put on top of the picture so no calculations needed except you move a Icon around and highligthing is also a predifined action not needing lots of time.

Your measurements are incorrect. You are measuring during a factor that significantly affects performance. You should measure under "normal" conditions.

Anyway, instead of a thousand words, I will also show pictures.

28 FPS

35 FPS (MU 125% )

 

[Aloisius]

Where is the queue for the full dumbville tour tix?!?!

 

[Macintosh]

come on ... show us video with new UI

 

[Sub-Zero]

come on ... show us video with new UI

Patience young padawan. Let them work on it until they feel its ready..

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

While playing with other Hardware I noticed that the FPS was the same as with my usal system.
So I wondered as they are of totally different spec what is the common ground and it was the Display.

So when I was back I looked at all the graphic options and found out the culprit for the 61 FPS max. It was the "wait for vertical Synchronization" feature which limited the FPS to the rate the Display can do maximally.

When I redid the test with "wait for vertical Synchronization" disabled I got more variable readings like without Icons around 140 (0.0071 sec per Frame) with Icons 120 FPS (0.0083 sec per Frame) in the cave, no enemy around and looking at the wall so when nearly no grahpics are rendered GUI would have most impact on FPS. From this values the rendering of the Icons dialog etc. would need roughly 1,2 milliseconds.

So less than 1 milliseconds to render the Icons etc. would certainly be a improvment but then I play with VSync enabled to not haveing tearing up my display while turning/moveing around. At 60 FPS one frame has 0.0166 seconds to be rendered so roughly 7.5% of the frametime for rendering Icons etc. on my middle class system with a I5-8300 CPU and a GTX 1050 Ti Graka.

Your measurements are incorrect. You are measuring during a factor that significantly affects performance. You should measure under "normal" conditions.

I would say it is completly the opposite.
When I want to get the time the Icons etc. needs to render I should go where nearly nothing is to render so Impact of rendering the Icons is more significant.
In the Cave, seperate instance, in a tunnel, no weapon drawn, looking at the wall makes the rendering of the picture haveing not much to do. The more items, shades, hidden, not hidden objects the engine has to render/calculate the more time the rendering of the environment needs and lesser is the impact of the icon rendering on the FPS.

Maybe makeing your test in windowed mode makes it not comparable and gets FPS down too, what is the FPS in fullscreen mode?

 

[jetsina]

I would say it is completly the opposite.

Yes, absolutely. It helps to start off with the correct logic, but so few people achieve that. So also a big thank you for clearly explaining your method and your resulting calculations.
Also, people in one department often talk 'beloni?' (dunno spelling, nor the origin of it..., so I have a chance to learn maybe in subsequent posts from people who will relish informing me - and I'm quite happy for that edit: beloney, ty!) to others to justify stuff, but actually it's mostly hot (or not even hot)... air.
It's certainly interesting to see your results - and wonder what we will be getting.

Also, thanks MA for waiting with the video until you have made some important adjustments to the UI from what was initially shown . Personally, if teams are going to be paid month after month anyway, then I'd prefer it if they did stuff the community agrees with, even if it means yet another stage of delay after the video to make important changes yet again! TY

 

[Mega]

Also, people in one department often talk 'beloni?' (dunno spelling, nor the origin of it..., so I have a chance to learn maybe in subsequent posts frtom people who will relish informing me - and I'm quite happy for that) to others to justify stuff, but actually it's mostly hot (or not even hot)... air.
It's certainly interesting to see your results - and wonder what we will be getting.

Baloney definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Baloney definition: If you say that an idea or statement is baloney , you disapprove of it and think it is... | Meaning, pronunciation, translations and examples

www.collinsdictionary.com

 

[PreyNaika]

The only Thing i want is a high resolution map where you are able to zoom in

Also a interactive map with mob location maybe?

 

[Westy]

The only Thing i want is a high resolution map where you are able to zoom in

Also a interactive map with mob location maybe?

Perhaps Google maps with street view.

But seriously yep bit more zoom capability be nice.

Also would like to see weapon or tool health on the icon. Even stop lighting such as green >50%, yellow 20-50 and red <20. Some of us started playing >15 years ago and were old then. So we need pill reminders. hehe.