Info: PSA. Beware of Loot Tracker Software.

Katie Chalmers

Stalker
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Posts
2,421
Location
Australia
Avatar Name
Katie Chalmers
Hi.
Sorry, I am going to burst a few bubbles here but I feel this information is important to share, to prevent players being misled by the information that is given to them.

So with loot being added to chat logs, we have all seen the rise in several different loot tracking programs that take advantage of this, and we have all come to enjoy using them, however there are certain scenarios that can arise where costs are not tracked accurately. This will apply to ANY tracker that performs its cost calculations by counting the "you inflicted XX damage" lines, and multiplying it by a stated shot value, often sourced from the wiki or manually inputted. Trackers that collect their data from screen capture or another method may not be affected.

Anyway, a lesser known quirk about Entropia is there is a built in cap to the amount of shots you can actually deal per minute, I don't know the exact figure but it is between 90 and 100 hits. You can boost your reload speed, and the game will acknowledge it, but behind the scenes it will throttle your reload speed and instead increase your per-shot cost. Damage output works the same way. For example, my weapon has a speed of 79 without buffs, and the ammo burn is 1517 cells. With ares ring alone I am unaffected, but once I take my pills, and exceed the cap, each shot now expends 1601 cells. Decay works the same way too. The tracker will still be using the weapon data of the unmodified value, throwing the results out. My tracker returns are thrown out by a whopping 5%.

If you are using slower fire weapons, this will not affect you, but anything 75+ shots per minute has the potential to be affected, depending on what reload buffs you have. To double check, you can see this change in real time just by hovering over your ammo counter. Cycle through your rings/pills and see if these values change.

Sacrificial dagger has a base of 86 shots per minute. I sure hope its owner doesn't rely on these trackers too heavily :oops:

Anyway, highlights the importance to always manually track your costs. Trackers work great as a quick estimation but never compare to the accuracy of good old pen and paper.
Of course if you do have a high fire rate weapon you can still use the trackers and keep them accurate, you just have to have a work out your shot costs via fruit tests for every reload speed you deal with, and keep it consistent. (don't let your pills run out)

Byee.
 
I tried several versions of one of the popular softwares here on the forum and it consistently misses loots. First time it was evident when I hit a big global on small mobs, yet my returns in the software didn't change. Then I started noticing small loots missing as well. I never saw any disrepancies in cost, however. I only trust Excel at this point.
 
This is correct but as always, it's hard to get people to listen who already have set themselves on a train of convenience. It looks good on streams and lends an air of seriousness to the player.

Loot trackers based on the chat messages do just that, track loot. This is great for building databases of which mob drops what, where to find resources etc. To calculate returns, the cost side also needs to be measured, including armour, healing and all the rest. Counting shots can give a ballpark hint but is not applicable when you use more than one weapon/tool. There is an inventory diff calculator to help with all that.
 
I couldn't find the developer notes very quickly... and gave up on doing so. But I also thought this was bug, until they showed me those notes, that MA in an earlier version limited attacks to 100. If you push more than 100 per minute, you don't lose anything from the game because it becomes an additional DMG equal to this spend. I'm talking about reload, not the tools. So that it doesn't turn into a drama.
 
I couldn't find the developer notes very quickly... and gave up on doing so. But I also thought this was bug, until they showed me those notes, that MA in an earlier version limited attacks to 100. If you push more than 100 per minute, you don't lose anything from the game because it becomes an additional DMG equal to this spend. I'm talking about reload, not the tools. So that it doesn't turn into a drama.
 
Reload speed is limited by the servers at 100 attacks per minute, this limitation has always been there but the fix to compensate for lost reload was introduced in version 15.7.1 on 2015 (release notes):

Changes
  • Attacks with items that exceed the server limit of 100 attacks per minute (i.e. through stacked buff effects) will now receive a damage increase proportional to what would have been achieved with the faster attack speed, while still being limited to 100 attacks per minute. This damage increase will result in increased ammunition and item deterioration proportional to the additional damage created.
Originally Posted Here
 
Reload speed is limited by the servers at 100 attacks per minute, this limitation has always been there but the fix to compensate for lost reload was introduced in version 15.7.1 on 2015 (release notes):
Doesn't seem like its exactly 100. As my weapon with my current buffs clocks in at 98.75% ish. Something could be off with the rounding or the game calculates the percentages differently than I do. This is why I personally never checked prior, as I wrongly assumed that I was under the threshold and wasn't affected.

Anyway I'm not arguing a point that we actually lose 5%, I understand the compensation mechanic that was implemented, I'm merely stating that using default values from the wiki or weapon compare WILL throw your loot tracker out of whack.
 
This is correct but as always, it's hard to get people to listen who already have set themselves on a train of convenience. It looks good on streams and lends an air of seriousness to the player.

Loot trackers based on the chat messages do just that, track loot. This is great for building databases of which mob drops what, where to find resources etc. To calculate returns, the cost side also needs to be measured, including armour, healing and all the rest. Counting shots can give a ballpark hint but is not applicable when you use more than one weapon/tool. There is an inventory diff calculator to help with all that.
Nice. I have seen a few tools that work in this similar way. Another caveat I see with these tools that I didn't find mentioned in your explanation post is they will get thown out if something sells on auction while you are hunting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: San
Nice. I have seen a few tools that work in this similar way. Another caveat I see with these tools that I didn't find mentioned in your explanation post is they will get thown out if something sells on auction while you are hunting.
You're right, this happened a few times while using it myself. It's easy to edit out a line though, I usually do this after copying the result to a spreadsheet. There are other items getting in the way more often, like a pet consuming nutrios but not contributing to your balance. I should add it to the doc, thank you for the hint.
 
Yes, I think you can see the effect at slightly below 100 attacks per minute. Not sure exactly how it works though.
My approach to get accurate numbers is to use "my items" list as mentioned above.
I also make a tool to help aggregate the data. For me this is very fast, convenient and accurate.
I just save my items by having this tab open https://account.entropiauniverse.com/account/my-account/my-items/json.xml and pressing ctrl-s to save it as a json file.
After the hunt is done I run the script like this:

Code:
$ ./item-diff.py -m ~/Dropbox/eu/my-mu.json -a ~/Dropbox/eu/hunts/1408/start.json -b  ~/Dropbox/eu/hunts/1408/end.json
Expenses                                       PED     Count    Markup
-----------------------------------------  -------  --------  --------
Gremlin Shin Guards (F)                      -0.11         0      0.00
Restoration Chip, Adjusted                   -0.14         0      0.00
Gremlin Thigh Guards (F)                     -0.16         0      0.00
...
Bullseye 8                                   -0.90         0      0.00
ArMatrix BP-20, FEN Edition                  -3.17         0      0.00
Universal Ammo                             -177.84  -1778388      0.00
[Sum]                                       184.30         0      0.11

Loot                             PED    Count    Markup
----------------------------  ------  -------  --------
Shrapnel                       70.13   701337      0.70
...
High Grade Motion Sensor        0.05        1      0.00
Greater Claw                    0.04        1      0.00
Blazar Fragment                 0.00        6      0.08
[Sum]                         160.67        0      0.98

Markup
  Gained    Lost    Delta    Delta (%)
--------  ------  -------  -----------
    0.98    0.11     0.87         0.47

Summary
  Cost    Return    Delta    Delta (%)    Delta MU    Delta MU (%)
------  --------  -------  -----------  ----------  --------------
184.30    160.67   -23.63        87.18      -22.76           87.65

This method works great for hunting, mining and crafting.

By default the script only looks at carried items. This automatically excludes auction events.
This behavior can be changed by using the "--container-filter".
It can be used in crafting if you keep all your mats in storage. That way you can get "cost" by looking at change in storage and "return" by looking at carried.

The tool can be found here: https://github.com/opentropia/pytropia#item-diff
 
Yes, I think you can see the effect at slightly below 100 attacks per minute. Not sure exactly how it works though.
My approach to get accurate numbers is to use "my items" list as mentioned above.
I also make a tool to help aggregate the data. For me this is very fast, convenient and accurate.
I just save my items by having this tab open https://account.entropiauniverse.com/account/my-account/my-items/json.xml and pressing ctrl-s to save it as a json file.
After the hunt is done I run the script like this:

Code:
$ ./item-diff.py -m ~/Dropbox/eu/my-mu.json -a ~/Dropbox/eu/hunts/1408/start.json -b  ~/Dropbox/eu/hunts/1408/end.json
Expenses                                       PED     Count    Markup
-----------------------------------------  -------  --------  --------
Gremlin Shin Guards (F)                      -0.11         0      0.00
Restoration Chip, Adjusted                   -0.14         0      0.00
Gremlin Thigh Guards (F)                     -0.16         0      0.00
...
Bullseye 8                                   -0.90         0      0.00
ArMatrix BP-20, FEN Edition                  -3.17         0      0.00
Universal Ammo                             -177.84  -1778388      0.00
[Sum]                                       184.30         0      0.11

Loot                             PED    Count    Markup
----------------------------  ------  -------  --------
Shrapnel                       70.13   701337      0.70
...
High Grade Motion Sensor        0.05        1      0.00
Greater Claw                    0.04        1      0.00
Blazar Fragment                 0.00        6      0.08
[Sum]                         160.67        0      0.98

Markup
  Gained    Lost    Delta    Delta (%)
--------  ------  -------  -----------
    0.98    0.11     0.87         0.47

Summary
  Cost    Return    Delta    Delta (%)    Delta MU    Delta MU (%)
------  --------  -------  -----------  ----------  --------------
184.30    160.67   -23.63        87.18      -22.76           87.65

This method works great for hunting, mining and crafting.

By default the script only looks at carried items. This automatically excludes auction events.
This behavior can be changed by using the "--container-filter".
It can be used in crafting if you keep all your mats in storage. That way you can get "cost" by looking at change in storage and "return" by looking at carried.

The tool can be found here: https://github.com/opentropia/pytropia#item-diff
That looks amazing but I will have to take your word for it..
I have completely no idea how do do stuff like this. My technical computer expertise is limited to "turn it off and on again" :D
If this sort of thing was developed into a nice UI and clear instructions I would jump all over it.
 
I will consider it :)
Currently it has what I need and I'm not a big fan of fancy UIs :p
 
Yes, I think you can see the effect at slightly below 100 attacks per minute. Not sure exactly how it works though.
My approach to get accurate numbers is to use "my items" list as mentioned above.
I also make a tool to help aggregate the data. For me this is very fast, convenient and accurate.
I just save my items by having this tab open https://account.entropiauniverse.com/account/my-account/my-items/json.xml and pressing ctrl-s to save it as a json file.
After the hunt is done I run the script like this:

Code:
$ ./item-diff.py -m ~/Dropbox/eu/my-mu.json -a ~/Dropbox/eu/hunts/1408/start.json -b  ~/Dropbox/eu/hunts/1408/end.json
Expenses                                       PED     Count    Markup
-----------------------------------------  -------  --------  --------
Gremlin Shin Guards (F)                      -0.11         0      0.00
Restoration Chip, Adjusted                   -0.14         0      0.00
Gremlin Thigh Guards (F)                     -0.16         0      0.00
...
Bullseye 8                                   -0.90         0      0.00
ArMatrix BP-20, FEN Edition                  -3.17         0      0.00
Universal Ammo                             -177.84  -1778388      0.00
[Sum]                                       184.30         0      0.11

Loot                             PED    Count    Markup
----------------------------  ------  -------  --------
Shrapnel                       70.13   701337      0.70
...
High Grade Motion Sensor        0.05        1      0.00
Greater Claw                    0.04        1      0.00
Blazar Fragment                 0.00        6      0.08
[Sum]                         160.67        0      0.98

Markup
  Gained    Lost    Delta    Delta (%)
--------  ------  -------  -----------
    0.98    0.11     0.87         0.47

Summary
  Cost    Return    Delta    Delta (%)    Delta MU    Delta MU (%)
------  --------  -------  -----------  ----------  --------------
184.30    160.67   -23.63        87.18      -22.76           87.65

This method works great for hunting, mining and crafting.

By default the script only looks at carried items. This automatically excludes auction events.
This behavior can be changed by using the "--container-filter".
It can be used in crafting if you keep all your mats in storage. That way you can get "cost" by looking at change in storage and "return" by looking at carried.

The tool can be found here: https://github.com/opentropia/pytropia#item-diff

int universals = -1;
int shrapnel = 2;
sum = shrapnel - universals;
sum = ?
i mean sum can be wrong logic sum if you assuming negative numbers in the variables.
Floating are known to "invent" numbers after the 7th sign, so double for entropia.
 
int universals = -1;
int shrapnel = 2;
sum = shrapnel - universals;
sum = ?
i mean sum can be wrong logic sum if you assuming negative numbers in the variables.
Floating are known to "invent" numbers after the 7th sign, so double for entropia.

Int? I guess for item itself, not value
 
Int? I guess for item itself, not value

I don't understand what you mean, I am giving a simple example.

I can only guess why there is a 5% difference in the OP's result.
And I saw in the comment that negative values are used.
What exactly do you mean?
 
Yes, I think you can see the effect at slightly below 100 attacks per minute. Not sure exactly how it works though.
My approach to get accurate numbers is to use "my items" list as mentioned above.
I also make a tool to help aggregate the data. For me this is very fast, convenient and accurate.
I just save my items by having this tab open https://account.entropiauniverse.com/account/my-account/my-items/json.xml and pressing ctrl-s to save it as a json file.
After the hunt is done I run the script like this:

Code:
$ ./item-diff.py -m ~/Dropbox/eu/my-mu.json -a ~/Dropbox/eu/hunts/1408/start.json -b  ~/Dropbox/eu/hunts/1408/end.json
Expenses                                       PED     Count    Markup
-----------------------------------------  -------  --------  --------
Gremlin Shin Guards (F)                      -0.11         0      0.00
Restoration Chip, Adjusted                   -0.14         0      0.00
Gremlin Thigh Guards (F)                     -0.16         0      0.00
...
Bullseye 8                                   -0.90         0      0.00
ArMatrix BP-20, FEN Edition                  -3.17         0      0.00
Universal Ammo                             -177.84  -1778388      0.00
[Sum]                                       184.30         0      0.11

Loot                             PED    Count    Markup
----------------------------  ------  -------  --------
Shrapnel                       70.13   701337      0.70
...
High Grade Motion Sensor        0.05        1      0.00
Greater Claw                    0.04        1      0.00
Blazar Fragment                 0.00        6      0.08
[Sum]                         160.67        0      0.98

Markup
  Gained    Lost    Delta    Delta (%)
--------  ------  -------  -----------
    0.98    0.11     0.87         0.47

Summary
  Cost    Return    Delta    Delta (%)    Delta MU    Delta MU (%)
------  --------  -------  -----------  ----------  --------------
184.30    160.67   -23.63        87.18      -22.76           87.65

This method works great for hunting, mining and crafting.

By default the script only looks at carried items. This automatically excludes auction events.
This behavior can be changed by using the "--container-filter".
It can be used in crafting if you keep all your mats in storage. That way you can get "cost" by looking at change in storage and "return" by looking at carried.

The tool can be found here: https://github.com/opentropia/pytropia#item-diff
Thats super elegant!

I also didnt know the website could be used this way! People have said to use the my items page for years and years and i always assumed they ctrl+c it and post it in an excel or sth. But with that the json thing, perfect! Just elegant and im gonna steal it! 😂

Cheers
 
If only we had active session tracking and over time tracking in-game built in. Here's hoping they'll do that for us in UE5 with UI update. Since we already have some interesting info from instances, they already track it all. We just don't have the info in-game. Now that it's easier to track with apps. Maybe they can give us an in-game one instead :) for true accurate tracking.
 
If only we had active session tracking and over time tracking in-game built in. Here's hoping they'll do that for us in UE5 with UI update. Since we already have some interesting info from instances, they already track it all. We just don't have the info in-game. Now that it's easier to track with apps. Maybe they can give us an in-game one instead :) for true accurate tracking.

They certainly will, because at the moment they sell tomatoes by eye, for which you have to pay tax on the tomatoes sold by the seller, not on what you bought.

And as we can see from the topic the calculations from the trackers are built based on strings because chat.log does not return exact values for the needs of game calculations.

If I must define it, a bucket of excrement from which a small whirlwind scatters piece by piece.
 
Good trackers take this into account.

Also why did you make the title the way it is? Is this BuzzFeed now? Need to try and scare people with Clickbait?
 
Good trackers take this into account.
I haven’t seen a tracker advertised on this forum at least that does. And I’m not sure how it would as there is nothing in the chat logs that indicates reload speed. If there is, please reference one, I’d love to try it out.
Also why did you make the title the way it is? Is this BuzzFeed now? Need to try and scare people with Clickbait?
For views and validation mostly. I’m a very insecure person.
 
A tracker that is worked on should allow you to add in your buff's.. and then figure out if you have gone over the 100apm threshold and update your cost.. It would then be upto you to manage your pills or change your loadout in the tracker. I know you recieve a line in chat when you get a buff but not sure if you get a line when it runs out so not sure if a tracker can do that for you or not.
 
A tracker that is worked on should allow you to add in your buff's.. and then figure out if you have gone over the 100apm threshold and update your cost.. It would then be upto you to manage your pills or change your loadout in the tracker. I know you recieve a line in chat when you get a buff but not sure if you get a line when it runs out so not sure if a tracker can do that for you or not.
Yeah I guess anything is possible if the coder is creative enough, none of the current trackers that I know about do this.

My tracker is private.
If people have their own private trackers that work flawlessly, then great, but my post focuses on the mainstream ones that the general public are using.

I’m not here to shit on anybodys tracker, I just bring awareness to certain situations where they may not be accurate, and to make corrective adjustments to their numbers.
 
My tracker is private.
Should i care?



I am personally for remove the Chat.log and to embed the necessary data in the game. Chat.log currently gives a huge advantage to anyone with programming skills, ignoring everyone else.

File Reader, Bitmap, Query... so all we need is compilation of all in one for using completely bot program.

I haven't used Chat.log for over a year. I have stopped it. But here are a lot the benefits I would derive from it:

-Hunting deals more or less damage over certain periods of time.
-Loot when hunting is a few pecs less than normal.
-The damage you take from MOB is more or less than normal.
-Crits are more or less...

-When mining, the Claims has different rates also.

Why should I lose more when I see I'm losing on some chart and wait for the game to pay me back, when I can wait without having to pay me back... stupid. MA just should remove Chat.log in the new version.
 
Should i care?
Well I was responding to specifically Katie, so no. You shouldn’t care.
Katie asked if the trackers people use have this. And mine does.
Katie asked if they could use it and I said it’s private.

Not knocking the conversation at all, but going past 95 attacks per minute seems like at least something that the trackers I’ve used have thought of.

Specifically the one I use now has an option to put a custom cost in per shot that negates this problem pretty easily as long as you know what the new cell cost is.

It’s still up for the user to know there attacks per minute though. Which is super easy to do.

Never had a problem converting ammo, opening boxes, or having things sell on the auction house with data on the tracker.
Also have had no problem inputting armor decay and heals after the hunt on either tracker.

Sucks if others are having that problem though :/ and I hope whatever tracker they use can fix those problems.

The more trackers available that are safe, the more variety and creativity we can see of others pushing each other to be their best :)
 
Last edited:
Well I was responding to specifically Katie, so no. You shouldn’t care.
Katie asked if the trackers people use have this. And mine does.
Katie asked if they could use it and I said it’s private.

I can also make a regional expression and print them in the center of the screen, but I'm not here to do a game-in-game. So my answer to you is sarcastic. You just blew me away with your sentence. I just wonder how an exploit like this can exist and be so well received by the majority. Not a personal attack on you, but on MA in this case.
 
I can also make a regional expression and print them in the center of the screen, but I'm not here to do a game-in-game. So my answer to you is sarcastic. You just blew me away with your sentence. I just wonder how an exploit like this can exist and be so well received by the majority. Not a personal attack on you, but on MA in this case.
I do think it would be cool if MA made this data available in game easier. Idk if I’d like them inputting mu information though as that could skew the market.

Although I think the more information MA gives us, the more difficult the game will be to breakeven/make ped
I don’t think loot trackers are an exploit though, we’ve had mining trackers for how long now? And Mindark doesn’t care from my knowledge.

Let’s be honest, mindark probably put the log in game anyway because it was easier for them to do that and let others make trackers than for them to make one. Then try to ban all other trackers.

I also like seeing everyones trackers and seeing which ones have what features though.
 
I do think it would be cool if MA made this data available in game easier. Idk if I’d like them inputting mu information though as that could skew the market.

Although I think the more information MA gives us, the more difficult the game will be to breakeven/make ped
I don’t think loot trackers are an exploit though, we’ve had mining trackers for how long now? And Mindark doesn’t care from my knowledge.

Let’s be honest, mindark probably put the log in game anyway because it was easier for them to do that and let others make trackers than for them to make one. Then try to ban all other trackers.

I also like seeing everyones trackers and seeing which ones have what features though.

I wouldn't want to delve into how MA makes decisions, but as long as someone brags about writing a script... in my case, it can be a definite ban, even for much less. So I don't use my chat.log and you can often see a few criticisms from me on them.

However, in this case I'm taking advantage because a tracker from their main forum returns different results of people spending their money in their game. Try to understand.
 
Back
Top