Question: Punishing the Pattern Recognition of Players

I understand that most of you are not miners and therefore may not 100% understand the relevance.
You think there is a difference.
 
You think there is a difference.
Ah... True most players dont get me.. Sometimes I dont get myself, I am working on that..
 
See here is where I do not understand the game. The game has the ability to lock out a x and y coordinate pair for a set amount of time, at least 6 minutes, before allowing resources to be "withdrawn" from the system.. How does it do that ?

Is there a database somewhere that stores the coordinates of probes ? Does the game consist of a resource map that is distributed and tiled across all servers ?

Is it random (NOPE) ?

Does the game punish players for using the same "move" over and over again.. (YES) ?
 
See here is where I do not understand the game. The game has the ability to lock out a x and y coordinate pair for a set amount of time, at least 6 minutes, before allowing resources to be "withdrawn" from the system.. How does it do that ?

Is there a database somewhere that stores the coordinates of probes ? Does the game consist of a resource map that is distributed and tiled across all servers ?

Is it random (NOPE) ?

Does the game punish players for using the same "move" over and over again.. (YES) ?
What is this 6 minutes? Where do you get 6 minutes from?
 
I think that this game employs a system that punishes pattern recognition..

Read my thought process below this..

The game switches from linear to exponential progression when the player makes too much peds.. And then scales again when the player "cracks" that sequence or scales down when the player is not obtaining the needed rewards..

The game literally builds an equation using the actions of the players. x^(m)+x^(m-1)+c eg x coord^2+y coord^1+height = 0
The game builds a trend line to match the players actions..


Below is the old post... Sorry for the rambling..

I perform an action that the game has not seen before and it gives me a reward fo it. (C)
I perform the same action and the game starts to recognise the pattern.. (X)+(C)
Third time, the pattern is locked and game knows what the pattern is and scales the pattern up.. (2X) (C)
Now the player gets shafted ... Fourth time... (X^2)+(X)+(C)

I think its using simple math mainly the quadratic equation to break patterns... Even if you do random stuff it, will try and find a pattern that you as the player are not aware of, and break it..

I saw the reference to the Sack's spiral right from the beginning of the game, even the global animation is a variation of the Sacks spiral math. There is also a reference to another profession in mining (click click). The game wants players to find these patterns, in order to wait for them to be abused and then scale the system up an exponent...

If you pickup that pattern change, you can abuse it for a while, and the game scales the pattern up again...

I am sorry If I am not explaining this properly.

The game has a system in-place that breaks either intentional or unintentional patterns.

Let me plot it quick

Move 0 starts at 0,0 (0,0)
Move 1 50 (50,0)
Next move can be 100, or 2x+0 =110 (110,0)

The game can now either reward that sequence or expand the sequence by adding an exponent x^2+x+0 50^2+50+0 or (2550,0), both sequences are valid, the one carries on using the current base, the other adds an exponent...

Think of it as a freeway entrance or difficulty scaling, or even a level up in an MMO. The game gets harder.. OH It's dynamic difficulty scaling .....

You have made too much ped today, how about we challenge you, you can earn more ped, but when you loose, we will scale back... so that you will always be within x loot...

Nice theory for someone who has never hunted


http://www.entropialife.com/Profile.aspx?P=40270 (your profile )


thanks for share with us

James
 
I am so treating this as a puzzle game ... Akmull gives me resources for using index 77 on a basic fib spiral with a 0 slope, I like index 77 as it heads west from my current xy pair. I get to a point where I cant go west anymore, so I head to the player area that globals all the time that starts with a P, cant remember the name. Anyway, I head a bit inland from the tt and start my run. Skill gain after skill gain, it just gives me skill gains..

I get fed up and change the angle of the slope to a unique value for each coordinate and 2 hits later 57 ped global..

And then diminishing returns kicks in. It's laughably predictable now. I am going to change my distance and angle again, and see how the game responds to it..
 
Fair enough..

But seeing the hitrate change right after initiating the change to my mining style is absolutely fascinating..
It's really not. Is it fascinating that I killed and looted a daikiba lv 5 and got a 554p. Cost me 40 pec. I killed a Daikiba Bull which costs about 60 ped to kill and I got 13 ped.

AbSoLuTlEy fAsCiNaTiNg
 
I killed a Daikiba Bull which costs about 60 ped to kill and I got 13 ped.

Actually, if you spent 60 ped and only got 13 ped loot that would be fascinating. If you still have that kill in chat.log and you are able to find it, can you PM me the snippet along with your parameters for the kill.

Thanks.
 
Actually, if you spent 60 ped and only got 13 ped loot that would be fascinating. If you still have that kill in chat.log and you are able to find it, can you PM me the snippet along with your parameters for the kill.

Thanks.
I can check when I get home. I didn't turn on my pc today. So I'll get back to you if you remind me. I don't believe I have the log though as that was on my old desktop. I can see if I have the vod on twitch still. (EDIT: Nope no clip or vod of it on twitch =/)
 
I am amazed you guys got to page 5 on this topic...
how else are we supposed to figure out how to loot an improved doa twen edition?

/s

edit: late gz on that drop evey btw :p
 
So the sequence hits like an absolute truck.. It has not reached its final form as there are so many parameters that can change. Hit a lvl 9 with a md1 and a 6 with a 105 as it's highlights... It's acting almost like a funnel..

SLOPE
EXPONENT / ROOT
HEADER RANGE / DEPTH (Yip, I know what depth is) - I mean its pretty obvious based on the cylindrical nature of mining
 
pretty obvious yet here we are at page 5 of this thread :D
 
ChatGPT assisted funnel math ready :)
 
ChatGPT assisted funnel math ready :)
Please use it to translate all your posts too cause your not writing in any way that makes sense. You use random math terms incorrectly and without reference to any numbers. You seem completely crazy to everyone here and everything you say is udder nonsense.

You clearly have a passion for this nonsense and have some logic your trying to convey but failing. Hopefully chat GPT can help you make a coherent statement for us to understand
 
Please use it to translate all your posts too cause your not writing in any way that makes sense. You use random math terms incorrectly and without reference to any numbers. You seem completely crazy to everyone here and everything you say is udder nonsense.

You clearly have a passion for this nonsense and have some logic your trying to convey but failing. Hopefully chat GPT can help you make a coherent statement for us to understand
So I constructed a funnel (https://mathworld.wolfram.com/Funnel.html) .6m radius at the bottom 54m radius at the top, height scaled to the parameters of the md1 finder. It did not work too well, it could have been the fact that I did not have a good value for i.
 
OK I am going to try and describe how this works calmly and rationally. This game plays with our sense of scale. Imagine compressing all the possible resource points in the game into a single point, they would all be there but the distance between them would be minuscule. Sort of like a reverse big bang. Now reverse the process, increasing the gap between each resource node in the game.. The more you profit, the more it expands, the more you loose, the more it contracts until a sort of "breathing" equilibrium is reached. Am I making sense ?

Its like the avatar is "ant-man" but they cannot control their powers.

Radius2=Radius*exp( n )

We also need a base "construct" that is self similar at different scales. .....

A Sacks Spiral will do. I really like this spiral as each individual point can be identified by it's distance and angle.
1.gif


Imagine this is what the inner radius of your finder looks like so if you are using a md1 inside the range of 54m. It's a single strip, rolled up in the form of a spiral. It is full of these points that can rotate and scale up and down as needed. Each point represents a resource node. So in the above figure of 16 points, its worth 16*.005 ped.

Just like a fractal each one of these points can contain copies of itself infinitely. There is also another spiral that is relatively the same. Phyllotaxis Spiral, that uses a different angle which is 0.618*n. N in this context represents the number of the "point" that was used to create the spiral.

Speaking of the points. The In-game depth value could be the number N, thematically it fits as N does represent how far "down" in the sequence you are.

Come to think of it, if this is the case then the game can be reverse engineered.

First a few equations.

The size of the grid = Number Of Headers^(1/Exponent)*Radius*2
Amount Of Headers = (Grid/2/Radius)^Exponent
Radius = (Grid/2)/Headers^(1/Exponent)
Exponent = LOG(Headers,(Grid/2)/Radius)

Below is a list of equations that make up the spiral that involve the points on the spiral

Header =Point in the Spiral.
Header Radius = Header^(1/Log)*Radius
Theta = Header^(1/exponent)
x=cos(2*pi()*Header^(1/log))*H Radius or x=cos(2*pi()*Header*0.618)*H Radius - Phyllotaxis Spiral
y=sin(2*pi()*Header^(1/log))*H Radius or y=sin(2*pi()*Header*0.618)*H Radius - Phyllotaxis Spiral

I took the above straight from Excel, so I hope they are clear enough.

In Project Entropia the spiral was Sacks, consisted of 60 points that rotated out of existence one each minute. Quickest way to beat it was to drop a bomb, move sqrt(60)*radius, drop another bomb and mine back @radius along the turnings of the spiral until you missed, rinse, repeat.. Easy money..

This system did come with a major flaw, other players could disrupt your mining if they dropped a probe within your "domain". It was really cool missing a drop and knowing that somewhere near me was another miner.
 
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