PVP space zone

[Spawn]

Why not something like this:

In the above example, pvp lootable can still not be avoided. Pirates can pirate in the red zone. But space would be free to explore, making travel through space nicer. Every planet is like this, if you leave the planet you enter the green zone, but if you want to enter the planet you have to go through lootable space. Make tp down more expensive and add that to the lootpool when somebody gets shot in the red zone. This way pirates get loot even if somebody is not carrying loot, because others can choose to tp down.(of which a part goes into the red zone lootpool).
Everybody happy, because I can simply go to other planets without loosing TIME. Pirates can shoot at any moving thing and get loot. player fed up with getting looted can tp down, adding more loot to the red zone lootpool. tp down should be considerably more expensive, so that they are tempted to go through the red zone to avoid the tp fee.

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

So I posted before that I don't think players are going to spend their time and money trying to kill pirates just to send them to jail without and monetary reward? Do you disagree?

I think they will for the simple reason that they dislike pirates like me enough to WANT to make my life hell. I WANT to give them a chance to do that, i think they will get a great amount of satisfaction from it yes. And i will get my adrenalin fix from living on the edge in a "gaming" sense

I said it before, if MA can come up with a reward system that is exploit proof, then sure, do it. My system i explained previously will work, but i cannot for the life ofme think up a way to make a reward system to go with it that will be un exploitable....Maybe im thinking too big and need to step back to see a simpler way....but atm i cant se a non exploitable reward system.......

 

[Xane]

I think they will for the simple reason that they dislike pirates like me enough to WANT to make my life hell. I WANT to give them a chance to do that, i think they will get a great amount of satisfaction from it yes. And i will get my adrenalin fix from living on the edge in a "gaming" sense

I said it before, if MA can come up with a reward system that is exploit proof, then sure, do it. My system i explained previously will work, but i cannot for the life ofme think up a way to make a reward system to go with it that will be un exploitable....Maybe im thinking too big and need to step back to see a simpler way....but atm i cant se a non exploitable reward system.......

Maybe I'm just not seeing the exploit in my beloved system. Please point it out to me:

1. Daisy kills Xane.
2. Xane has x amount of days to place a bounty on Daisy's head.
3. Xane knows he could never kill Daisy himself so he places a 500 ped bounty on Daisy.
4. Stagger kills Daisy and collects the bounty.
5. Daisy is transported to prison where he can post bail to leave. Bail would be the same amount the bounty was(500) plus 10 peds, or he can serve time say 1 hour = 10 peds paid.

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

Maybe I'm just not seeing the exploit in my beloved system. Please point it out to me:

1. Daisy kills Xane.
2. Xane has x amount of days to place a bounty on Daisy's head.
3. Xane knows he could never kill Daisy himself so he places a 500 ped bounty on Daisy.
4. Stagger kills Daisy and collects the bounty.
5. Daisy is transported to prison where he can post bail to leave. Bail would be the same amount the bounty was(500) plus 10 peds, or he can serve time say 1 hour = 10 peds paid.

its already been said....

So if a pirate gets a bounty put on them, what's to stop them getting a friendly avatar (to them) to kill them and splitting the reward between themselves?

I do kinda like the bail idea though...although i think the bail option should only activate after a min sentence..... i have to suffer for my actions at least a little bit dont you think ^^

 

[Dr.D.C.]

it must be very funny for the MA people read all our post and dont give a sh%^ about

 

[Xane]

its already been said....

I went back and reread the posts and no....it hasn't been said why a reward system can't be made that wasn't exploitable.

I offered up my own version and asked what the flaws were in it so I could refine it into something that could be submitted to MA. If you can't find any problems with it then I guess it's ready for submitting.

 

[SpikeBlack]

it's at step 4, instead of Stagger killing Daisy, Daisy gets a soc mate to kill them and they split the reward 50/50. You can't stop that from happening.

Any reward system for killing pirates that doesn't take loot directly from them can be exploited by the pirate, either with a friend or with a second avatar on a second pc.

If they're forced to buy their way out of prison then it will cost them but if they have an option to get out for free or at a reduced cost by waiting for a while then they can choose to be killed when they know they won't login for a while and they still profit.

Or lets say I put a 10,000ped bounty on someone knowing they won't be able to pay this to get out of prison. I then kill them, or someone I trust kills them and I get my reward back at no cost to me while trapping the person in prison with a $1000 bill or at your suggested 10ped/hr - 1000 hours of being stuck (offline over 41 days or 250 days online at 4hrs/day). It's a good way to get rid of rivals who can't / don't deposit much.

Even if they can afford to pay it, repeating the procedure a few times will more then likely drive them out.

 

[Xavier Target]

Dbl post....

 

[Xavier Target]

I think EU has something here. Maybe the casinos can do something similar. Instead of a no smoking section they can have a lootable pvp section where you can beat up other guests and take there money. Imagine the people lining up for that?


What happened to me?!?!? Someone robbed me. Oh, you walked into the lootable area, you should be more carefull grandma.

 

[Xane]

it's at step 4, instead of Stagger killing Daisy, Daisy gets a soc mate to kill them and they split the reward 50/50. You can't stop that from happening.

Any reward system for killing pirates that doesn't take loot directly from them can be exploited by the pirate, either with a friend or with a second avatar on a second pc.

If they're forced to buy their way out of prison then it will cost them but if they have an option to get out for free or at a reduced cost by waiting for a while then they can choose to be killed when they know they won't login for a while and they still profit.

Or lets say I put a 10,000ped bounty on someone knowing they won't be able to pay this to get out of prison. I then kill them, or someone I trust kills them and I get my reward back at no cost to me while trapping the person in prison with a $1000 bill or at your suggested 10ped/hr - 1000 hours of being stuck (offline over 41 days or 250 days online at 4hrs/day). It's a good way to get rid of rivals who can't / don't deposit much.

Even if they can afford to pay it, repeating the procedure a few times will more then likely drive them out.

I could see the need to possibly put some caps on the amount of time needed to serve or even the bounties.

As far as getting a friend to kill you to collect the bounty I really don't see this as an exploit. The person placing the bounty doesn't care where the money goes, they're paying for this person to go to jail for a certain amount of time or pay a certain amount to get out and that's what happens to the pirate whether the bounty collector is their friend or not. There's no guarantee that as a pirate you are going to be able to get your friend to help you out before someone else does it first. This also creates an opportunity for the person placing the bounty to coordinate with a potential bounty hunter and timing it so that the bounty isn't placed until the pirate is located

edit: Or what if you could hire a player to hunt and kill another for a bounty. That bounty would sit in an escrow account for the duration of the bounty specified and only be awarded to the person you hired if they killed your target.

 

[Xane]

I think EU has something here. Maybe the casinos can do something similar. Instead of a no smoking section they can have a lootable pvp section where you can beat up other guests and take there money. Imagine the people lining up for that?


What happened to me?!?!? Someone robbed me. Oh, you walked into the lootable area, you should be more carefull grandma.

Didn't you read the signs grandma???? Now lets go to the ATM and get some more money.

 

[JoseMTacoral]

Traditionally, free trade has been a clear growth factor, in contrast the international trade restrictions have been for countrys that applied a factor of delay and resulted in poor economies. Mindark restircciones applying to trade between planets has clearly favored Calypso but has greatly limited the economy of the others planet partners. I Subscribe to the idea of ​​creating large areas of PvP in space but always leaving the possibility of transit through safe areas. On the other hand by making full pvp space Mindark becomes an intellectual accomplice than in real life would have been considered a serious crime: piracy. As our economy with a "real cash economy", with direct relation to the dollar value, I have my serious doubts if that it not also set a crime "in game".

And Mindark, please, for safer space travel we need:

>> 3D location system
>> radar system with two modes: active mode (when "on" you can detect other ships but your radar can be detected) and "passive" mode (radar only picks up active signals but makes no so can not be detected).
>> Improved capacity within the scope of the radar.

 

[DaisyColdFinger]

Ok ok, enough........come on now....who said lootable cant be fun for every one without all the agro....Hell anyone of you can come have some fun Space Event

 

[Shadowsong]

...
As far as getting a friend to kill you to collect the bounty I really don't see this as an exploit. The person placing the bounty doesn't care where the money goes, they're paying for this person to go to jail for a certain amount of time or pay a certain amount to get out ....

I think you will find that victims of piracy care a great deal about where the money goes. I doubt many people will respond to "OMG I've just had a pile of money stolen" by immediately throwing another pile at the thief.
The monetary value of revenge is exactly nil.

Now, if I could place a 50ped bounty to have a pirate in jail until he repays what was taken from me, then we have a reasonable system. Actually, I would like that in RL too.... arrest the robber, and make him work in a prison sweatshop until he has paid back what was stolen.

What you are proposing is window-dressing, not redress.

 

[.Stagger]

I think you will find that victims of piracy care a great deal about where the money goes. I doubt many people will respond to "OMG I've just had a pile of money stolen" by immediately throwing another pile at the thief.
The monetary value of revenge is exactly nil.

Now, if I could place a 50ped bounty to have a pirate in jail until he repays what was taken from me, then we have a reasonable system. Actually, I would like that in RL too.... arrest the robber, and make him work in a prison sweatshop until he has paid back what was stolen.

What you are proposing is window-dressing, not redress.

this idea is just out of the picture.
paying peds to lock some character down in a place he doesn't wish to be to play the game?
just because he did something that's legal according to the game rules.


why don't we go and strip down the entire avatar and grant you all he has, cut off his hands so he cant fly anymore,
cut his balls off so he can't produce any more pirates, and tell his mother about his bad actions up in space.


the reason im posting this..
is because only the people getting killed in space or people who don't wish that pirates annoy their profit propaganda by trading.
Making up stupid comparements of pirates with rapists, robbers, murderers, child abusers and mentally instables.
There is absolutely no way that we are any of that,
all we do is play the game and ignore the rage-messages of our victims

I say the next person to whine about space pvp under this post,
has to seriously find some help from a psych and talk about your problems there.
because MA is not going to change it.

( by the way i accidently reported the post moderator, not my intention )

 

[Shadowsong]

this idea is just out of the picture.
paying peds to lock some character down in a place he doesn't wish to be to play the game?
just because he did something that's legal according to the game rules.


why don't we go and strip down the entire avatar and grant you all he has, cut off his hands so he cant fly anymore,
cut his balls off so he can't produce any more pirates, and tell his mother about his bad actions up in space.

( by the way i accidently reported the post moderator, not my intention )

Reductio ad absurdem is a poor debate technique.

What if the loot from your victim is all HE has? Where has that ava been locked, and when did he wish to be there (just because he did something that's legal)?

Of course it is "out of the picture" for a pirate - it impacts him as much as piracy impacts his victim, and that is the one thing a pirate fears most.

 

[KlowN]

I voted no...there has to be a risk for trade between planets. As far as all of you guys suggesting a different system (bounties)...I think pirates should be treated as in Ultima Online did with pkers...basically you kill someone in space, the victim gets a pop up to place a (forget the word, but basically a "point" on the pirate). When the pirate reaches 5 points he becomes "red" (amount of points to be red is up for dispute obviously before implemented). When a pirate is "red" they can not enter a town/city (in uo without the NPC guards, would be turrets? in EU) attacking them. Now, there was a town for the pk's to hang out at...bucaneer's den (maybe a comet way off where on EU). Now points wore off like 1 every x hours, or a NPC in buc's den could be paid x amount to erase a point. There was a bounty system implemented also, but this helped pker's rly stand out. In EU it would also make them wait a bit/not get as many ped or whatever because they cant go to caly and sell their stolen loot for markup (where majority buy anyway). Anyways, I feel as though this would keep the pvp, make victims a bit happier, & maybe pirates won't mind neither.

Edit: btw suggesting this because UO was a pvp anywhere game and that seemed to work well for those non-pkers. As far as the current reputation (like rude etc) goes, I admit, don't go into space...ever...so dont know much about it, may be the same kind of idea as I explained, idk

 

[.Stagger]

Reductio ad absurdem is a poor debate technique.

What if the loot from your victim is all HE has? Where has that ava been locked, and when did he wish to be there (just because he did something that's legal)?

Of course it is "out of the picture" for a pirate - it impacts him as much as piracy impacts his victim, and that is the one thing a pirate fears most.

that's complete bullshit,
what if an exarosaur pays 50 animal oil to put you in animal kingdom jail for hurting his beloved ones.
and you get stuck there just because you played the game..

would you like that? no
is it fair that the exarosaur pays money to prevent you from playing? no

topic done, and denied.


and have you people forgot about the destroyers and cruisers that will be released sooner or later?
that's your safe transport there..
we can't even take down a ms on a fair way with getting loot.
let even stand something bigger than that..

 

[.Stagger]

I voted no...there has to be a risk for trade between planets. As far as all of you guys suggesting a different system (bounties)...I think pirates should be treated as in Ultima Online did with pkers...basically you kill someone in space, the victim gets a pop up to place a (forget the word, but basically a "point" on the pirate). When the pirate reaches 5 points he becomes "red" (amount of points to be red is up for dispute obviously before implemented). When a pirate is "red" they can not enter a town/city (in uo without the NPC guards, would be turrets? in EU) attacking them. Now, there was a town for the pk's to hang out at...bucaneer's den (maybe a comet way off where on EU). Now points wore off like 1 every x hours, or a NPC in buc's den could be paid x amount to erase a point. There was a bounty system implemented also, but this helped pker's rly stand out. In EU it would also make them wait a bit/not get as many ped or whatever because they cant go to caly and sell their stolen loot for markup (where majority buy anyway). Anyways, I feel as though this would keep the pvp, make victims a bit happier, & maybe pirates won't mind neither.

Edit: btw suggesting this because UO was a pvp anywhere game and that seemed to work well for those non-pkers

yes i agree,
banning me from twin peaks or port atlantis would be a fair offer.
that would also keep the raging-pirates who are out to negative influence away from the "innocent and good noobs"
preventing that they will fall prey to evil people.

( disclaimer: not all pirates are evil people. Nebula Virus is not strictly business, not evil or scamming)

 

[Shadowsong]

that's complete bullshit,
what if an exarosaur pays 50 animal oil to put you in animal kingdom jail for hurting his beloved ones.
and you get stuck there just because you played the game..

would you like that? no
is it fair that the exarosaur pays money to prevent you from playing? no

topic done, and denied.

Really? Mobs placing bounties now? Funny how fast the topic is "done and denied" when the terms become unfavourable to your desired outcome. I spoke to a psyche, and he suggested that this kind of assymetric view of what is fair is often symptomatic of an anti-social personality, probably fuelled by a healthy dose of narcissism. See, I can also execute ad hominem strategies in debate.

You're very good at avoiding the issue, even when phrased in your own terms. I'll try again :

Is it fair that the pirate pays money to prevent you from playing?

 

[.Stagger]

Really? Mobs placing bounties now? Funny how fast the topic is "done and denied" when the terms become unfavourable to your desired outcome. I spoke to a psyche, and he suggested that this kind of assymetric view of what is fair is often symptomatic of an anti-social personality, probably fuelled by a healthy dose of narcissism. See, I can also execute ad hominem strategies in debate.

You're very good at avoiding the issue, even when phrased in your own terms. I'll try again :

Is it fair that the pirate pays money to prevent you from playing?

you should find a new psych, because hes talking shit.

pirates don't pay money to prevent you from playing,
pirates pay money to prevent you from making too much profit too easy.
pirates pay money to play their own game, and you agreed to that by accepting (you clicked the green V, instead of red X ) the window that popped up before you wen't to space.

 

[Shadowsong]

you should find a new psych, because hes talking shit.

Prove it.

pirates don't pay money to prevent you from playing,
pirates pay money to prevent you from making too much profit too easy.

The bounty would not prevent you from playing either, just prevent you from making profit too easy. Pay back what was stolen, carry on playing.

pirates pay money to play their own game, and you agreed to that by accepting (you clicked the green V, instead of red X ) the window that popped up before you wen't to space.

Well, if the bounty system is implemented, that would be in the same window, and you would agree to it by clicking the green V, instead of the red X. What exactly is your point?

 

[Xane]

I think you will find that victims of piracy care a great deal about where the money goes. I doubt many people will respond to "OMG I've just had a pile of money stolen" by immediately throwing another pile at the thief.
The monetary value of revenge is exactly nil.

I don't think you really gave this comment a whole lot of thought, it has many wholes in the logic. If I got pooped for a 100 peds I would have no problem putting a 20 ped bounty on someone and what if that happend 10 more times to the same pirate? That would be a 200 ped bounty and you still think that all that ped will for sure get into the pirates pockets? I don't think so.

Now, if I could place a 50ped bounty to have a pirate in jail until he repays what was taken from me, then we have a reasonable system. Actually, I would like that in RL too.... arrest the robber, and make him work in a prison sweatshop until he has paid back what was stolen.

This is not a very intelligent or reasonable suggestion. If all a person had to do was place a bounty to jail a pirate until they repaid the loot then that would pretty much put an end to piracy all together. If MA was is willing to implement your idea then that would make them anti-piracy. Ask your self why would an anti-piracy group make space pvp in the first place????
hmmm doesn't make sense does it.

Ask yourself another question....why would you take the time to submit a suggestion you know will never be implemented when much better alternatives have already been talked about?

 

[Shadowsong]

I don't think you really gave this comment a whole lot of thought, it has many wholes in the logic. If I got pooped for a 100 peds I would have no problem putting a 20 ped bounty on someone and what if that happend 10 more times to the same pirate? That would be a 200 ped bounty and you still think that all that ped will for sure get into the pirates pockets? I don't think so.

I do know that the ped spent will do nothing to mitigate the loss suffered at the hands of the pirate, only increase it. Throwing good money after bad, that is called. I do know for sure that none of the ped will end up back in the victims pocket.

Oh, and it's "holes", btw.

This is not a very intelligent or reasonable suggestion. If all a person had to do was place a bounty to jail a pirate until they repaid the loot then that would pretty much put an end to piracy all together. If MA was is willing to implement your idea then that would make them anti-piracy. Ask your self why would an anti-piracy group make space pvp in the first place????
hmmm doesn't make sense does it.

Who would spend 50PED to recover 30PED of loot, for example? How would it put an end to piracy? All it would do is reduce the potential profit for the aspirant pirate. Also, if the bounty contributes to a PvP lootpool, then, as mentioned before by yourself and others, the pirate can potentially profit even from an empty victim.

I'm so sad you think the suggestion is not very intelligent, and not at all surprised you think it is unreasonable. It may not make sense to you, but I think it's great, where does that leave us?

Ask yourself another question....why would you take the time to submit a suggestion you know will never be implemented when much better alternatives have already been talked about?

Better for who? Why would you assume other suggestions have a greater chance of being implemented than this one? Why would you take the time to oppose such a patently poor suggestion?

 

[Xane]

I do know that the ped spent will do nothing to mitigate the loss suffered at the hands of the pirate, only increase it. Throwing good money after bad, that is called. I do know for sure that none of the ped will end up back in the victims pocket.....Why would you assume other suggestions have a greater chance of being implemented than this one?

Mitigating the loss is completely contradictory to the system that has already been put into place, that's why it wouldn't be implemented and that's why it's not better than what has already been suggested.

Better for who?

Better for you and everyone else since your idea doesn't really stand a chance.

Also, if the bounty contributes to a PvP lootpool, then, as mentioned before by yourself and others, the pirate can potentially profit even from an empty victim.

The pirates have just as much of a chance to be hurt by this lootpool as they do to "profit" from it. They still need to serve all the time if they wish to not pay, is that not worth something in this game?

Why would you take the time to oppose such a patently poor suggestion?

So we could put an end to this idea and get back to the better ones.

Oh, and it's "holes", btw.

Your definitely correct about this spelling error but unfortunately that was the only thing you were correct about.

 

[xaph]

The discontent appears allied to 2 camps.
The premise of space appears to be mapped to values, yet to settle and perhaps be accomodated in some way!
Middle ground, that's huge!
Insolvent I say ..stop argueing and get on with shooting each other

 

[Xane]

Insolvent I say ..stop argueing and get on with shooting each other

I never stopped

 

[Shadowsong]

Mitigating the loss is completely contradictory to the system that has already been put into place, that's why it wouldn't be implemented and that's why it's not better than what has already been suggested.

Really? What would you call paying for transport on a mothership, if not mitigation of potential loss? It's not contradictory at all, it just does not suit your agenda, which is to offer proprietary mitigation of loss by paying for your services.

Better for you and everyone else since your idea doesn't really stand a chance.

No, my idea would be better for me. I do not presume to speak for others in this regard, so I can't say what would be better for them.

The pirates have just as much of a chance to be hurt by this lootpool as they do to "profit" from it. They still need to serve all the time if they wish to not pay, is that not worth something in this game?

Time is meaningless, which is why piracy victims are forbidden from complaining about it. It seems only pirates' time and ped are valuable. It may even be in the EULA.

So we could put an end to this idea and get back to the better ones.

Off you go then, pretend I'm not here

Your definitely correct about this spelling error .....

I know, I gave it a great deal of thought.

 

[Xane]

Really? What would you call paying for transport on a mothership, if not mitigation of potential loss? It's not contradictory at all, it just does not suit your agenda, which is to offer proprietary mitigation of loss by paying for your services.

No no no...we were not talking about preventing loss, that's a completely different subject, we are talking about after the fact. Stay on subject.

No, my idea would be better for me. I do not presume to speak for others in this regard, so I can't say what would be better for them.

Your idea will not be implemented and I've told you why? So why is it good for anyone?

Time is meaningless, which is why piracy victims are forbidden from complaining about it. It seems only pirates' time and ped are valuable. It may even be in the EULA.

That make little to no sense.

Off you go then, pretend I'm not here

Making even less sense as I was talking to specifically YOU!


Let me explain to you in very simple terms what the problem with your system is, it goes against the grain of what space has been setup for. Find something that accommodates both sides and doesn't contradicted what is already in place and then you have something that has a shot of being implemented. Small changes are more likely to get made...big ones get ignored.

 

[Shadowsong]

No no no...we were not talking about preventing loss, that's a completely different subject, we are talking about after the fact. Stay on subject.

You do know what "mitigating" means, right? It applies both pre- and post-facto.

Your idea will not be implemented and I've told you why? So why is it good for anyone?

Oh, I never saw the release notes confirming that your, or any other suggestion, would be implemented, my bad. You may be surprised that your opinion is not automatically a fact.

That make little to no sense.

Indeed, it makes no sense that time spent and ped lost is only considered to be a factor for pirates.

Making even less sense as I was talking to specifically YOU!

Why? I don't desire the end of this idea, you do. If it bothers you, walk away. Telling me to shut up won't do it, I'm afraid.

Let me explain to you in very simple terms what the problem with your system is, it goes against the grain of what space has been setup for. Find something that accommodates both sides and doesn't contradicted what is already in place and then you have something that has a shot of being implemented. Small changes are more likely to get made...big ones get ignored.

So, ignore away.... let me continue on my fool's mission unhindered. Never did expect the support of pirates on this one, much like the single chicken doesn't expect the support of the foxes when choosing lunch.


Did I mention, I can smell the fear from here