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Rebalance, Reward Depositors and Penalize Leechers

Hostage said:
I can prove MindArk make profit from deposits.

It's been stated revenue is from decay. Decay cannot exist without ped. Ped without dollar. Dollar without deposit.

And this wasnt about proving anything.

I am stating an opinion on how MA should run there business, whatever I say is subjective to me.
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probably the most useful thing you posted today in this thread, rather than your use of a bad adjective for non depositors.

by the way why hide behind a new account who are you?
 
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Still waiting for a reply.....where on the EU website for deposits does it explain the method to the average person how to deposit without paying a % in losses with exchange?:scratch2:
 
probably the most useful thing you posted today in this thread other than your use of a bad adjective for non depositors.

by the way why hide behind a new account who are you?
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You say bad adjective and do not say why.

A person does not deposit, it costs the ones that do more to cover their play decay. Leeching is a perfect adjective.
 
So then friends I have that depoed 20k usd and haven't depoed in a year are as you say "leeches" or are they depositors? :eek:

To be honest your logic makes no sense to me.

I did agree with your opening post there should be a player rewards system. Some type of item or something given out for X amount of depos in a month. But I really don't see what your aiming at with this thread. People that play in the "real cash economy" and don't lose should be ashamed? They are sub human? what is it you want?

Sounds like big sour grapes to me.

Kosmos
 
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Talania said:
Where on the Entropia Universe website does it inform the average person who deposits that there are ways to deposit without losing a % in the process?
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They don't, but was that the question ??
 
Hostage said:
No there isnt, I deposit via my bank.

And Kanjo please explain how MA's profits are not tied to deposits, how exactly do they profit without deposits? I am all ears.
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Deposits made directly to MA from banks require $100.00 minimum. If there is no fee in exchange rate there it is not posted in any way on the the EU website.

Does the average person use this method to deposit? Likely not!
So there is a fee for deposits!:mad:
 
Hostage said:
No

You posted it, it's clear. I cant help it if it makes no sense.
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You know what, this whole thread makes no sense. I see what i wrote and it's just how you read it. My fault.

But like Etopia already asked, what are you're suggestions for a change you asking for ??
 
Talania said:
Deposits made directly to MA from banks require $100.00 minimum. If there is no fee in exchange rate there it is not posted in any way on the the EU website.

Does the average person use this method to deposit? Likely not!
So there is a fee for deposits!:mad:
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Marco|FPC said:
Of the options available the direct bank transfer is the method with the least fee (0%). The other options have fees associated as the banks and credit card processors all take a cut of the action.

The withdrawal fee is 1%, minimum $US10.

Just FYI. =)
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Here ya go

Rgds

Ace
 
Well, the simplest way to put it is: I disagree.

However for a better explanation:

Those "leeches" who, for example, buy my minded resources, hides, wools, etc. are a beginning hunter/miners best friend. When you are working on a limited budget (even if you do deposit) it can be very hard to gather enough of a material to put on auction. However, those buyers will buy even if you only have 1 item. They wouldn't offer to do that if they couldn't benefit from it. And a beginning player (or simply one low on peds) is grateful for that service, as it means they can hunt/mine (I.E. decay) more often.

Those "leeches" who, for example, sweat and sell it, provide folks with a product that they aren't willing to spend their time getting themselves. They deserve to be compensated for their time/energy.

And ironically, this game is about one bizarre concept. The better you are at profiting from it, the less you deposit.

But your system wants to reduce loot for those who do well, and increase it for those who have to deposit more.
  • Thus making them profit better
  • Thus their loot's worse
  • Thus making them deposit more
  • Thus making their loots better
  • Thus making them profit better

If I knew with 100% certainty that my loot was tied directly to my depopsit amount, I'd sell out and quit. No ifs, ands, or buts.
 
Ace Flyster said:
Here ya go

Rgds

Ace
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Thank you for quoting something Marco posted on the EF forums. I was specificly asking about where on the EU website it states there is no % lost in the exchange for deposits.

But as I stated there is a fee for deposits. I had no information like many others likely do not about a method to deposit without losing a %. But this method requires using your bank account for direct transfers and also requires a minimum of $100.00 US dollars. Does the average person who deposits know about this or even deposit that much at a time? I am certain many who do deposit that much still don't know that there is a method that doesn't involve the transfer fee. So that leaves the simple fact that there is a deposit fee.
 
JohnCapital said:
Those "leeches" who, for example, buy my minded resources, hides, wools, etc. are a beginning hunter/miners best friend.
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"Morally" true, but economically false. In fact, those traders lower the price the seller would get for his items.

As for sweating, is a process invented by MindArk. Respective sweaters are able to do that process because MindArk implemented it and intended it for same reasons as pvp trading.

I do of course understand that the said trader is a necessary interface between small seller and average/big buyer, but that doesn't mean they're not leeching.

While I do not condone the peiorative tone of the threadstarter, is obvious that if trader X withdraws, those funds must come from somewhere. Respectively deposits. Hence MindArk must force the overall mass of depositors to loose the respective sum, since won't be MindArk paying for it.

Or am I wrong?

P.S.: the ideea of penalizing *leechers* is ridiculous though, that type of player exists because MA allowed it and because it serves MA.
 
Talania said:
But as I stated there is a fee for deposits. I had no information like many others likely do not about a method to deposit without losing a %. But this method requires using your bank account for direct transfers and also requires a minimum of $100.00 US dollars. Does the average person who deposits know about this or even deposit that much at a time? I am certain many who do deposit that much still don't know that there is a method that doesn't involve the transfer fee. So that leaves the simple fact that there is a deposit fee.
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Because i've never seen the Rocky mountains does that mean they don't excist ??
 
To OP,

Im unsure your profession IRL or what it pays an hour... but spend 1 extra hour working which well say is at least $10/hr... which nets 100ped if put into the game....

Or trade for several hours and earn 100ped....

Some traders rake it in... no doubt.... they spent lots of time or have spent lots of time building up reputations and customer bases.... they do well... or they spend tons of time auction hunting....

If you prefer to do that to play a bit more free... then do that.... if you prefer to come into EU and hunt/mine/craft without needing to "work" for your funds... then go for it....

Its up to you.....

I spent a long time last winter/spring trading.... I built up some nice PED... but nothing I couldn't do with 2 weeks work at $10/hr....
 
But like Etopia already asked, what are you're suggestions for a change you asking for ??
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Fair enough.

Not sure, I was hoping for suggestions from those who agreed.

The casino's treat their big losers like royalty. Not by fixing the odds on the table for them. But a little perk here and there can really help keep the morale of the loser and keep him coming back.
 
P.S.: the ideea of penalizing *leechers* is ridiculous though, that type of player exists because MA allowed it and because it serves MA.
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I regret how I phrased the title. I meant any reward for a depositor would in itself be a penalty for a non depositor. Not in taxing them in some fashion or lowering their current return.
 
What is stopping you from being in the leech category?

We are playing for the same damn thing really, we want to see the ped in a loot window. Contrary to popular belief, there's only so much of that to go around. They want ppl to spend crap loads trying to find that big one....they dont want you to hunt snable, they want you to spend faster. Thats why you probably have a better chance at getting something good by hunting stuff the average player cant hunt. Lots of ppl have to lose or trying to find a global will be alot tougher.

If your not going to gamble on trying to get ahead, then your probably gonna loss your ped to someone who is.

p.s. your not equal to someone rich when the games about spending.
 
What is stopping you from being in the leech category?
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Oh nothing, and I have leeched :D

But I have still seen those big big depositors crash and burn too many times. And I cant believe its in the game best interests. I believe in rewarding them, so they keep depositing and improve the loot for all.

As they say in poker,

"You can shear a sheep many times, but you can skin him only once."

A reward to the whales is in everyone's best interests.
 
Hostage said:
Low Level Leecher - Due to currency exchange, can play 12-16 hours a day, seem to find the majority of big loots in comparison to genuine customers and never provide to MindArk.

Now as a genuine customer who deposits to lose ped to MindArk, works daily and plays in the evening, I have slowly become enraged by the unfairness of MindArk's system.
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I've colored out the best part. :rolleyes: It reminded me of some kid on the radio one day, replying to a priest's religious question about why being modest and caring is better than being rich and greedy:

"All those rich people just win lotteries and never work.", the kid said.

Well even the priest was confused. :laugh:

Your "due to currency exchange" is the same kind of argument.

A player doing hunting/mining/crafting more than 10 hours per day is simply more hardcore than you, such player certainly pays even more PED in decay to MA and markup to other players than you.
Them getting lots of global/hof messages does not tell if they are depositing or not, if they are profiting or not from this. :silly2:

And if they would be profiting, wouldn't it be fair to reward them for working harder than others? :)
 
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MA and FPC needs all types mind you.

Some make it through no depositing others well continually deposit. As long as ped is funneled out of EU (decay) than ped will need to be funneled into EU via deposits.

Really EU is open to so many different styles of play and no one way is more right or wrong unless you are a scammer then sorry your no better than pond scum IMHO.

I guess the option to play without depositing is open to everyone and the option to deposit likewise. I personally find enjoyment seeing how far I can stretch my ped and then sometimes I deposit like a mad man to achieve some goal or attain some piece of pixelated equipment.

Personally no matter what style of play I think it would be nice to have some form of recognition in terms of achievements and maybe milestones within Planet Calypso. Sometimes it can feel like no matter what you do or how you do it MA is out to bleed you dry rather than acknowledge some loyalty to EU no matter how that is achieved.

I guess my biggest beef has always been a lack of being able to attain what you need through grinding mobs, dropping bombs/probes, and clicking crafting overtime. Yeah you can build that PED card and wait for that special price on the item you want but something seems lost in continually having to do that all the time.

I agree there is a need maybe to make things seem achievable no matter what level or how much you spend in EU. Otherwise it turns into a mindless grind of the same items over and over again. I think its human nature to want and see tactile (albiet virtual) results and not just from building PEDs from other players but also from participating in the professions the developers implemented.

I think it gives newbies a sense of "I hope to get there someday" and those who have gotten there to think "what comes next?"

We are all intertwined in EU no matter how you participate. We all have good and bad days that is something I have come to count on the longer I continue. We have the full spectrum of game haters to game lovers in EU and that is what makes this project work IMHO.

Now saying that I think MA will get more people in EU by providing an entertaining and enjoyable platform people don't mind spending a few bucks on. If you make something entertaining and enjoyable people will spend money. Look at Avatar the movie its entertaining and enjoyable and its made over 1 billion in what 3 weeks? Maybe the emphasis MA and FPC and all the planet partners need to concentrate on is not how to squeeze a few more ped per hour out of those who are already here but how to make it so darn entertaining that people enjoy opening up their wallets and spending a little and tell their friends about it and their friends about it. I spent my money on Avatar and I walked away thoroughly entertained without a thought about the money I just spent and that was my return.

How do you make EU like that because as it stands now I sometimes wonder if its worth it to continue and if I am not here who will buy all of Brooklyn's freebies so she can play for free as well :laugh:?

See Brooklyn while I agree with some of your posts your style of play depends on depositers and if they go away then who will pay MA salaries, server upgrades, power bills, and new software/hardware? So don't be so quick to boohoo those who don't play your style we all depend on each other and no style of play is more righteous than another (unless you are a pond scum scammer lol)
 
I've colored out the best part. It reminded me of some kid on the radio one day, replying to a priest's religious question about why being modest and caring is better than being rich and greedy:
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EU isnt a charity. It's a business. If your best customer gets a raw deal than it's hardly a good recipe is it?

The leeches know logically it's at the expense of those with less knowledge or intelligence or time.

Big depositor usually work, deposit, pay the bills of other players and MindArk. They are happy to do it. I ask for a little reward to them, a pat on the back. You dont want it given, and I am selfish and greedy?
 
Talania said:
So there is a fee for deposits!:mad:
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but that fee is not charge by MA...
its the bank systeme that take fee...Like what ever you do IRL when it go with bank , there a fee...
even in shop when you pay with your card there a fee...the diference is , in shop , they increase a bit the price of what they sell to cover that fee...and then dont ask you any fee...still , you did pay the fee...

One things that show MA eefort to reduce fee , is now , they have bank account in many diferent curency , so there is no fee for change when you widthdraw money...You can ask what ever curency you wish , and dont pay change , because MA stock up lots of money in many diferent curency...this make people that withdraw en eco of 3 to 5% ( depend on bank)...

I still would like to know , what the OP but also all other people who think he is right ,have like idea to change the things and make them better...

Its easy to say " that suck" , its more hard , but more interessing to elaborate at least to say why , and if possible provide some idea of solution...
 
Hostage said:
EU isnt a charity. It's a business. If your best customer gets a raw deal than it's hardly a good recipe is it?

The leeches know logically it's at the expense of those with less knowledge or intelligence or time.

Big depositor usually work, deposit, pay the bills of other players and MindArk. They are happy to do it. I ask for a little reward to them, a pat on the back. You dont want it given, and I am selfish and greedy?
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lol, show me a charity that ain't a business at some level or another..

We are all here for 'business', it's what makes that funny stuff, called money, move, it makes that personal thing, called ego, tick, it is what makes us do what we do - live! If it helps you sleep at night, I still have to pay my electrical utility company for the sparks that make my computer hum. I still have to pay my ISP for the bandwidth EU eats up. I still have to upgrade my graphics card, none of this is free... Why does it bother you so much that such a tiny part of your life is affected by "leeches"? (I know, I know, throw a dog a bone....)

I think, if you cannot look in the mirror (vr or irl) and be proud of who is looking back at you and you need a 'pat on the back' to convince you that you are special, maybe it's time to re-evaluate just where exactly to draw the line between self-satisfaction and self-destruction. As Einstein put it, it's all 'relative'.

:D

Ossi!
 
Huskie said:
So now you have sour grapes and are jealous of them because you can't do the same? Aww, how cute...

There's always a bigger fish (read: people who will do better than you).

And MA has given these noob hofs as hook baits for new players ever since they introduced huge uber hofs on small mobs. It won't change, because that's basically the only thing that makes one or another newcomer stick around.

Hypothetically, in the far off chance that MA would cater to this BS plea, what would "slowly enrage you" next? The fact that you don't get uber gear in every mob you kill? Because it isn't fair not everyone gets uber items, right? And if that happens too, then maybe an ATH every kill/drop/click?

Just trying to make a point, I know that's not what you're asking, but think about it a little.
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great post
like usual when is necessary you arrive with the cavallery.
+ rep????
 
das said:
add to that that MA takes their revenue from decay, NOT from deposits!
So those "leechers" turning over 5-10k ped a day & get away with a break even/profit also PAY MA.
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MA would take their revenue from nothing if there was no depositing players.
There wouldn't be a game if there was no depositing players.

I don't care if you play for free or not, but don't tell me that you pay your share, especially very bothering, fake Brooklyn! You're so arrogant and aggressive...especially for a girl...

I don't think you're a leech if you don't deposit, but you're definitely not paying... It's ok, but don't tell me you do.
Just understand: there would be no EU without depositors.
 
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Hostage said:
A customer is someone who pays. Otherwise you are a browser.

Sure, it doesnt require deposits, Mindark live on free air.

It is all about me. I am a customer. I pay MA's bills.
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You are MA customer. So you pay MA's bills.

I am MA investor. MA pays dividends (Loots) to me.

So you better change side. Be an investor, unless ofc you are more comfortable being a customer :ahh:

But , ah you want to be a customer and reap the benefits of an investors at the same time, that is to " have the cake and eat it at the same time".
 
Asha said:
MA would take their revenue from nothing if there was no depositing players.
There wouldn't be a game if there was no depositing players.

I don't care if you play for free or not, but don't tell me that you pay your share, especially very bothering, fake Brooklyn! You're so arrogant and aggressive...especially for a girl...

I don't think you're a leech if you don't deposit, but you're definitely not paying... It's ok, but don't tell me you do.
Just understand: there would be no EU without depositors.
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Ofc no EU with no deposits... but you are saying non depositors aren't playing? W.T.F.

Honestly, more and more as I read these forums, I seriously worry about the general intelligence of the playerbase..

Deposit or not, you are playing the game.
 
Spinage said:
Ofc no EU with no deposits... but you are saying non depositors aren't playing? W.T.F.

Honestly, more and more as I read these forums, I seriously worry about the general intelligence of the playerbase..

Deposit or not, you are playing the game.
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Lol, I think you have to start worry about your own intelligence, not mine, as I didn't say they are not playing, but not paying. But you are very nice that you worry about the playerbase...
 
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