Recommended levels for finders

Pallas Gaudio

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Pallas Gaudio
I've never been clear on what recommended levels on finders actually mean in practice. So I'm looking for your explanations.


My results haven't been too good recently, so I thought I would experiment by purchasing a finder above my recommended level. Obviously I am mining at a lower depth than my previous maxed finder and am not getting SIB, but what other differences are there?


My levels: Prospector 33, Surveyor 32, Miner 31

Previous finder: TK320, recommended level 25, 850.8/850.8, SIB not anymore
New finder: VRX2000, recommended level 37, 235.1/925.4, SIB not yet


I've done one run with the new finder, with results similar to my old.


Thanks.
 
Many people will say you: "unmaxed finder is bad".

I will say: it's BS. You just get that ugly depth of VRX now, VRX's MU kinda costly, decay is kinda high, - but your returns unaffected. So, you just throwing away PEDs of finder MU and it's decay.

PS: Actually, you got overpriced high-TT F-101 (L) with range of 55m, and decay of VRX.
 
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Many people will say you: "unmaxed finder is bad".

I will say: it's BS. You just get that ugly depth of VRX now, VRX's MU kinda costly, decay is kinda high, - but your returns unaffected. So, you just throwing away PEDs of finder MU and it's decay.

PS: Actually, you got overpriced high-TT F-101 (L) with range of 55m, and decay of VRX.



Thanks.

Of course, my test run was very small. It may well be that returns look bad after a larger sample.
 
Hmm, four comments so far.


(1) I seemed to race through the first tier very quickly;

(2) I can get largish globals (two c150 PED so far);

(3) I'm getting a huge amount of oil (partly because I'm mining in areas that I normally avoid);

(4) I have risen a level in prospecting.
 
Hmm, four comments so far.


(1) I seemed to race through the first tier very quickly;

(2) I can get largish globals (two c150 PED so far);

(3) I'm getting a huge amount of oil (partly because I'm mining in areas that I normally avoid);

(4) I have risen a level in prospecting.

Wait a moment - you now using VRX with your level, meaning, you got no SIB yet started?
 
Wait a moment - you now using VRX with your level, meaning, you got no SIB yet started?



I should have said that I'm using this VRX2000 with level 8 amps (mainly for comparison purposes with my TK320, which was similarly amped).

I should also say that my results are skewed by the use of about 100 probes with an unamped F-105 (522.4/522.4 depth) during this period.

My VRX2000 is now at 322.82/339.00 PED. Tier: 1.6. TIRs are: 47, 115, 147, 22, etc..

Still no SIB.
 
I should have said that I'm using this VRX2000 with level 8 amps (mainly for comparison purposes with my TK320, which was similarly amped).

I should also say that my results are skewed by the use of about 100 probes with an unamped F-105 (522.4/522.4 depth) during this period.

My VRX2000 is now at 322.82/339.00 PED. Tier: 1.6. TIRs are: 47, 115, 147, 22, etc..

Still no SIB.

So why then use it? You got same depth now as F-101, and have decay and MU of VRX? You just losing more now, what the reason?
 
So why then use it? You got same depth now as F-101, and have decay and MU of VRX? You just losing more now, what the reason?



As I said in the first post, an experiment. See what happens.

I'm not concerned about being eco.
 
As I said in the first post, an experiment. See what happens.

I'm not concerned about being eco.

Oh, sorry then.

Okay, my question is: how many drops you're planning to do while that experiment?
 
Oh, sorry then.

Okay, my question is: how many drops you're planning to do while that experiment?



Not sure.

I'm not doing this in a scientific way, more intuitive. If I continue to get oil at the rate I am, I'll stop very soon - I'm not so non-eco that I care for the lack of MU.

I'll be pleased though if the tiering continues at this speed - the extra MU on a tier ten is significant.

I've been having a very poor set of results the last few months, total contrast to the preceding year or more. My results suddenly picked up with either this machine or this depth. I've just in the middle of trying my TK320 again - results have shot down once more. So I'm not quite sure what to make of that!
 
Not sure.

I'm not doing this in a scientific way, more intuitive. If I continue to get oil at the rate I am, I'll stop very soon - I'm not so non-eco that I care for the lack of MU.

I'm not quite I understand what you are testing. Are you testing if the low depth you see in stats is really true (when SIB has not started yet)? If so, it's easy to test - just try mining for some redulite, if you can't get a deposit in like 200 drops or so, that's as good as it gets as a proof.
 
I'm not quite I understand what you are testing. Are you testing if the low depth you see in stats is really true (when SIB has not started yet)? If so, it's easy to test - just try mining for some redulite, if you can't get a deposit in like 200 drops or so, that's as good as it gets as a proof.



I'm not quite sure I understand either.


But I guess the answer to your question is that I'm not testing, I'm experimenting. :scratch2: :silly2:


About three years + ago, I went through a period of using a finder that was above my level (not then knowing enough about what I was doing), and did rather well. I've rather wondered about that since, and whether I've been missing a trick in the intervening years.
 
I'm not quite sure I understand either.


But I guess the answer to your question is that I'm not testing, I'm experimenting. :scratch2: :silly2:


About three years + ago, I went through a period of using a finder that was above my level (not then knowing enough about what I was doing), and did rather well. I've rather wondered about that since, and whether I've been missing a trick in the intervening years.

Depends on what "doing well" means - tt returns are the same no matter which finder you use, only reason one should use different depth finders is to find rarer materials, like redulite for example, and for vrex it's the only use - to find rare/semi-rare materials.
 
Try it without the amps and see what your hit rate is.

Usually, with a maxxed finder, you'll get about 32% on planet. Amps usually cut this to around 25%.

With a finder way over your head like this, you should get around 5-25% hit rate, I think somebody reported a 0% hit rate on 60 drops in this situation once.

However, mining is unusually sensitive to balancing hits when you are playing with big amps. Usually, you'll get a 10X multiplier about every 30 to 50 drops, and a larger one like every 100-200 hits. However, if you are in a huge deficit because of lack of hits, you'll probably get a balancing hit more often.

I suspect that experience you had years ago was because of bigger, but fewer, hits.
 
Try it without the amps and see what your hit rate is.

Usually, with a maxxed finder, you'll get about 32% on planet. Amps usually cut this to around 25%.

With a finder way over your head like this, you should get around 5-25% hit rate, I think somebody reported a 0% hit rate on 60 drops in this situation once.

However, mining is unusually sensitive to balancing hits when you are playing with big amps. Usually, you'll get a 10X multiplier about every 30 to 50 drops, and a larger one like every 100-200 hits. However, if you are in a huge deficit because of lack of hits, you'll probably get a balancing hit more often.

I suspect that experience you had years ago was because of bigger, but fewer, hits.



Ah, hit rate. That's an easyish thing to sample. I'll try it on different combinations and report back.
 
I still think that hit rate does not matter, because ped returns are the same.
 
Try it without the amps and see what your hit rate is.

Usually, with a maxxed finder, you'll get about 32% on planet. Amps usually cut this to around 25%.

Another BS.
 
HIT RATE TEST


OK, so I'm doing a very small sample of 3600 probes. Might do another sample after that.

Using four finders:

1. VRX2000 : 332.49/339.00 PED; 235.1/925.4 depth; Tier 1.6; Level 8 amp. No enhancers.
2. TK320 : 250.07/311.00 PED; 850.8/850.8 depth; Tier 7.7; Level 8 amp. No enhancers.
3. F-105 : 62.11/82.00 PED; 522.4/522.4 depth; Tier 2.9; no amp. No enhancers.
4. F-101 : 5.50/5.50 PED; 263.7/263.7 depth; Tier 0.9; no amp. No enhancers.
5. as 1 but with no amp;
6. as 2, but with no amp.

Doing the amped finders first.


My stats:

Prospecting 4275, 34; Surveying 3977, 32; Mining 4372, 31.


Each shot 30 probes, as I'm doing both ore and enmatter.


First 4 shots: at Pandora
I'm shooting here 100m apart, slightly less than the range limits.


1. 83800,83700,268
O1 BELKAR 83839,83698,280,309,VI,283,5.66
E1 -
2. 83800, 83800,267
O2 IOLITE 83795,83848,259,880,IX,88,17.60
E2 -
3. 83800,83900,255
O1 -
E1 -
4. 83800,84000,265
O2 -
E2 OIL 83806,83980,266,855,X,1870,18.70

3/4 shots; 3/8 hits; Finder 1, 1/4; Finder 2, 2/4
 
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A bit of a disaster here for the stats.


TP: Tetania, plateau to east

5. 37700,2600,335
O1 -
E1 -
up to tier 1.7

6. 37700 26100,357
O2 -
E2 -

7. 38150,26550,332
O1 -
E1 -
up to tier 1.8

8. 38150,26650,323
O2 -
E1 -


3/8 shots; 3/16 hits; Finder 1, 1/6; Finder 2, 2/6
 
Changing to 100+ m gaps. This area usually ain't bad, but too many argo killings for a miner.


TP: Rei (to south)

9. 37016,28662,105
O1 BELKAR 37060,28645,149,169,IX,814,16.26
E1 -

10. 37020,28549,106
O2 BELKAR 37013,28561,110,848,VII,339,7.18
E2 GARCEN 37031,28505,108,959,VIII,108,10.80

11. 37147,28724,110
O1 -
E1 OIL 37162,28708,107,189,VI, 508,5.08

12. 37243,28788,102
O2 -
E2 GARCEN 37290,28779,109,856,IX, 165,16.50

13. 37544,28991,109 (killed by an argo and went back slightly further east than I had intended)
O1 -
E1 -

14. 37328,28779,110 (retracked)
O2 BELKAR 37234,28831,109,813,X,1017,20.34
E2 BINARY 37319,28740,111,734,IX(U),16,12,00

15. 37667,29144,105
O1 -
E1 -

16. 37893,29023,110
O2 -
E2 -


8/16 shots; 10/32 hits; Finder 1, 3/16; Finder 2, 7/16
 
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TP: PA

17. 64050,7500,150
O1 LYSTERIUM 64035,74983,149,121,VII, 6.86,6.86
E1 -

18. 64050, 74880, 133
O2 IGNISIUM 64059,74931,141,1020,VI,8,5.60
E2 -

19. 64250, 74880, 121
O1 ERDORIUM 64215,74876,130,488,VI,14,5.60
E1

20. No hits.


11/20 shots; 13/40 hits; Finder 1, 5/18; Finder 2, 8/18
 
TP: Billy

21. 63232,79013,110
O1 -
E1 -

22. 63229,78844,113
O2 -
E2 OIL 63230,78837,111,775,IX,9.54,9.54


In case you wonder, I'm mining in places that I wouldn't usually go to (because of low MU); but I'm not going to reveal my usual mining grounds to you!


TP: PA (or further south) - islands to south

random probing

23. 61314,73973,189
O1 -
E1 OIL 61304,73994,149,U IX,1605,16.05

24. 60915,73320,151
O2 -
E2 OIL 60964,73329,158,751,IX,14.26,14.26

25. 60016,71864,203
O1 LYSTERIUM 59996,71848,201,267,X,18.80,18.80
E1 -

26. 59885,71385,157
O2 -
E2 OIL 59882,71434,160,958,VII,651,6.51

27. 60414,70724,170
O1 LYSTERIUM 60390,70765,149,246,VII,744,7.44
E1 -

28. 61037,70122,123
O2 -
E2 OIL 61002,70132,131,741,VII,661,6.61

29. No hits, but Tier 1.9

30. 61885,67994,130
O2 LYSTERIUM 61845,68032,131,969,VII,657,6.57
E2 -

31. No hits

32. 62540,66257,177
O2 LYSTERIUM 62532,66237,178,1083,VII.634,6.34
E2 -



20/32 shots; 22/64 hits; Finder 1, 8/32; Finder 2, 14/32
 
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TP: Oyster

33. No hits
34. No hits

TP: Jason

35. No hits

36. 76373,80053,119
O2 CALDORITE 76419,80032,117,1024,IX,77,13.09
E2 -

37. 76583,80075,124
O1 Reached Tier 2.0
E1 OIL 76549,80086,122,295,IX,1768,17.68

38. No hits
39. No hits
40. No hits


22/40 shots; 24/80 hits; Finder 1, 9/40; Finder 2, 15/40
 
End of first test

So after using one amp on the VRX and one amp on the TK, I've got these (fairly dreadful) results:

where a shot = two sets of probes for ore and enmatter
where a hit = a successful find on ore or enmatter



22/40 shots; 24/80 hits; Finder 1, 9/40; Finder 2, 15/40


Clearly, the VRX (where I haven't achieved the level) is getting me close to a 50% less hit rate than the maxed TK.

PED returns are dreadful too: about a 150 PED loss.


The one good thing is that the VRX is now at Tier Level 2.
 
I'm having a difficult time following your numbers, but do you know your total hit rate % on the maxxed finder?
 
I'm having a difficult time following your numbers, but do you know your total hit rate % on the maxxed finder?


Sorry that it wasn't clear.

Maxed finder: 15 hits out of 40 - so 37.5%.

The other finder was: 9 hits out of 40 - so 22.5%.

So that is reasonably in line with your prediction of:


Usually, with a maxxed finder, you'll get about 32% on planet. Amps usually cut this to around 25%.

With a finder way over your head like this, you should get around 5-25% hit rate, I think somebody reported a 0% hit rate on 60 drops in this situation once.
 
I mean, do you have a total for all your runs?

I'm expecting like 32%, but if it's higher, maybe something else is going on. :)
 
I mean, do you have a total for all your runs?

I'm expecting like 32%, but if it's higher, maybe something else is going on. :)



Ah, misunderstood.

No, this particular finder has been in storage since the big mining changes. I've only just started using it again.

That old history may explain why it's a bit off on your expectations?
 
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