Question: remove / change the item cap system

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Okay MA. You said loot 2.0 is here to make loot fairer for everyone. Regarding this my question is straight, short and simple:

Are you going to remove / change the item cap system, that is in place now, which is the MAIN course for unfairness in hunting in this game?

Just yesterday you decided to raise the cap on the lacerating attack nanochip by 5 and then they all dropped in the next hour. so if someone is not lucky enough to hunt while you decide the change the cap the hunters chances of looting said item are basically zero.

this artificial rarity, released by you on your own decisions for certain occasions (this time migration) is total bullshit and has no place in a real RCE. A healthy market needs to regulate itself by supply and demand depending on the drop chance of certain items. for the market to stabilize it needs a fixed drop chance on longterm and not a drop chance of 0% and then suddenly 10% for an hour and after that 0% again.
The drop chance for items needs to stay fixed longterm and needs to have NO cap.
now people might think that the market would get flooded with imk2. thats not the case if the drop chance is low enough. Best example for this is the Diablo game series that shows that % based drop chanced work VERY well even with very low drop chances. then there is no need for a cap at all.

this would also be usable in mining regarding caps on dianthus and other ressources.

this is the only way you can achieve 100% fairness for every hunter no matter what time of day he hunts or for how long.

my question again: is this going to be changed to be fair for everyone or does it stay like this?

if the system stays like this then my hunting skills will be up for sale.

and on a side note: if the gambling discussions is coming up: dont forget that ep4 is the equivalent of a slot mashine. fair hunting drop chances are NOT gambling.
 

mastermesh

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The drop chance for items needs to stay fixed longterm and needs to have NO cap.
now people might think that the market would get flooded with imk2. thats not the case if the drop chance is low enough. Best example for this is the Diablo game series that shows that % based drop chanced work VERY well even with very low drop chances.
Diablo has it's own version of Loot 2.0 and MF, Magic Find, not to be confused with Mind Force in Entropia Universe, as well as GF, or Gold Find. GF allows you to find more gold in Diablo. MF allows you to find more 'rare items' in Diablo. GF is similar to 'finding more mining resources or shrapnel' in EU sort of. MF is similar to finding more 'enhanced loot' in EU, if it means finding more " 'rare items' other than shrapnel."

GF and MF were in D2 as well as 3. (think they were even in D1, but it's been so many years since I played that I can't remember all of the details on that)

Not trying to derail the discussion, just pointing this out since that could make this thread a bit confusing as you mentioned that game in OP.

If item drop rate in EU Loot 2.0 or later turns out to be similar to Diablo MF, item combos that several threads here has hinted out, could be something 'real' instead of something theorized... Not sure that would be a good idea for EU since it would allow certain items, or a new item buff type similar to MF, or certain actions, similar to the action of constantly hunting Mephisto over and over and over in D2 as many did back then since he was the easiest boss to get to if you had certain actions or items in your inventory, to actually exist in EU.... i.e. it'd make certain item combos of items or actions, similar to Diablo game combos, or 'cheats', or 'shortcuts' if you will, to exist... i.e. if you 'knew' that something dropped from a certain loot table, with some large percentage of possibility, with some certain combo, either due to testing it out, or due to some 'insider info' it'd basically allow you to use that 'insider info' to 'cheat the system'... which imho opinion would not be a good thing for Entropia... since it'd lead to stuff like 'scanner gate' happening all over again.

If it was true random number stuff, that's one thing, but following Diablo's example the exact way they did it in that game may not be such a great idea.

For years Mindark has said that it's possible to loot any item in game at any time, but we all know that's never been a reality. Would be nice if it was.

In a 'real world' casino I worked for a couple of years ago, one guy that one a car could not claim the actual prize at the end of the event that the car was given away in because it turned out that his brother-in-law was an employee... that type of stuff is regulated in real world casinos, not so much in Entropia, at least not yet, even though Mindark wants us to be believe otherwise.

Bad enough that we got Diablo style 'rune and gem slots' in game called tiers, don't need items with mf percentages added too.
 
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i just pointed out diablo because the item drops worked flawlessly. magic find is another story that shouldnt exist in EU. those are 2 different things.
and to be honest, the "optimal loot", as MA calls it, is basically achieved by anyone who uses a maxed weapon. so there is no real difference in before loot 2.0 and after loot 2.0. and to clear it up: optimal loot only describes the composition of loot and not its actual tt value.
 

ZPF

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Just a thought...

If literally the entire universe wasn't hunting Eomon/LT at the same time I'm sure the chips wouldn't have dropped so rapidly. Migration is sort of a special case... Not sure if they should be designing loot mechanics around it.
 

Aio

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If literally the entire universe wasn't hunting Eomon/LT at the same time I'm sure the chips wouldn't have dropped so rapidly. Migration is sort of a special case... Not sure if they should be designing loot mechanics around it.
No, it happens every single time MA raise the cap on something. If they added one more available item to any mob in the game, it would be looted within an hour.

It's an absolutely insane system to stop overfarming of items such as imk2, mod fap, etc. It plainly doesn't work; it means hunting 99% of the time is fucking pointless because the golden items aren't available. It's basically long-term wave hunting.

I seriously doubt they'd change it though as the item cap system has been around since 2003 (gold).
 
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NeoPsion Kinetic Amplifier III Gaina Messi91 Cristi Sat, 08 Jul 2017 07:42:04
NeoPsion Kinetic Amplifier II Dr namn Mugg Sat, 08 Jul 2017 07:22:55

another prime example of MA slowly releasing the items into the wild. yesterday the mf 1 amp and now the 2 and 3. guess tomorrow about noon will be 4 and 5 released into the wild. so its kinda pointless to hunt at all with this biased bullshit system
 

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fredda

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I remember when the same person looted 2x gazunga lr37 TEN edition in 16 minutes...

50-60k total value ped at the time
 

forgo

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Yeah clearly they goofed something up imo, there were 3 Pegasus harness male UL that dropped in the span of 1 hour on ark other day as well.

This is not in anyway related to migration, this is a loot distribution issue.
 

Avon(AJ)Jerrix

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One of the most common problems in MMOs is inflation. Unlike the real world, gold and items literally come from nowhere. Games have to make gold sinks, like player owned housing to get rid of some of it. In the real world scarcity puts limits on production. Making resources effectively limitless by removing caps would decouple the EU economy from any kind of stability.
 

Mac

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NeoPsion Kinetic Amplifier III Gaina Messi91 Cristi Sat, 08 Jul 2017 07:42:04
NeoPsion Kinetic Amplifier II Dr namn Mugg Sat, 08 Jul 2017 07:22:55

another prime example of MA slowly releasing the items into the wild. yesterday the mf 1 amp and now the 2 and 3. guess tomorrow about noon will be 4 and 5 released into the wild. so its kinda pointless to hunt at all with this biased bullshit system
So the options seem to be, keep shooting "around the clock" during special events and hope your chances of looting when ma releases an item are good, like Messi91 and some others do ( which is why he always recommends people to "keep shooting"), or you can shoot only the short periods when you are able to, which reduces your chances compared to those who shoot more but you hope you get lucky, or you can just try to lower your costs with high efficiency and shoot when you can and hope you can just hang on with normal tt and mu and save your money and buy the items those other people loot. :laugh:
 

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NeoPsion Kinetic Amplifier III Gaina Messi91 Cristi Sat, 08 Jul 2017 07:42:04
NeoPsion Kinetic Amplifier II Dr namn Mugg Sat, 08 Jul 2017 07:22:55

another prime example of MA slowly releasing the items into the wild. yesterday the mf 1 amp and now the 2 and 3. guess tomorrow about noon will be 4 and 5 released into the wild. so its kinda pointless to hunt at all with this biased bullshit system
Well, I always found it suspect that this stuff tended to drop in non-US hours and my root problem with the loot system. It is why we all balk at this type of system even though they said they were getting rid of it (perhaps they did for stackables, but not for items, the root problem).
 

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When I started in 2005 I had hoped, thought I would have the chance to participate in hunting and my ava have a chance of looting a better weapon as I skilled up, find which mob drops the armor I want and hunt those to loot each piece of my next set of armor, a better healing device etc. I wanted to progressively improve my setup by hunting my way to the next goal.
In reality, I am US based and the drops just don't seem to happen on my hours of play.
At this point I do not believe I have a chance of looting a decent item in this world.

I would like to see the 'chance' to loot an item be avatar based and then if I loot an item my chance to loot the second one of that item would go down considerably.

Of course this type system would only work if MA really did eradicate the alt ava's out there.
 
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One of the most common problems in MMOs is inflation. Unlike the real world, gold and items literally come from nowhere. Games have to make gold sinks, like player owned housing to get rid of some of it. In the real world scarcity puts limits on production. Making resources effectively limitless by removing caps would decouple the EU economy from any kind of stability.
i already stated that this is simply not true and easily to prevent by turning the drop chance down to very low values, like 1 imk2 in 10 million kills. that way you still would have the chance to loot it, it would still be very rare and possibly not worth grinding it but at least you would have the same fair fucking chance like anybody else.

combine this "item release" problem with the recent threads about MA giving away inside knowledge to certain people and you will see why the same people loot the same stuff. at least thats the reason for some of em.
 

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One of the most common problems in MMOs is inflation. Unlike the real world, gold and items literally come from nowhere. Games have to make gold sinks, like player owned housing to get rid of some of it. In the real world scarcity puts limits on production. Making resources effectively limitless by removing caps would decouple the EU economy from any kind of stability.
One of the biggest drivers for item price stability in (semi) permanent items irl (gold, diamonds, houses etc) is exponential consumer growth (population) which is not the case in EU.

The biggest healer for MAs issues is new players but they seem either inable or incapable of utilizing marketing to achieve this.
 

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In reality, I am US based and the drops just don't seem to happen on my hours of play.
There is some truth to this:

East coast might still have a chance if you don't work too long hours.

edit: data is from EL rare loot tracker so these are V and up.
 

Rocket192

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These complaints will go nowhere...

i suspect that wave-based item releases are hard-wired into the system due to the way multipliers such as globals and hofs are paid out... as well as avatar cycles...

The entire goddamn system is a loot wave and it would be impossible/impractical to change that... not to mention going to RNG brings gambling regulations into the mix.

Sadly I'm not sure there is a good way to do it unless MA manually inserted items into the pool at random times throughout a day... and designate a single individual to do this 24/7... once again impractical.

Also... yeah EU players get all of the good item loots. I couldn't have possibly had a change at the amps as it was 7am on a weekday in the eastern US. Something needs to be done to fix that part of the puzzle.


It's an imperfect system but I doubt it will get any better.
 
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These complaints will go nowhere...

i suspect that wave-based item releases are hard-wired into the system due to the way multipliers such as globals and hofs are paid out... as well as avatar cycles...

The entire goddamn system is a loot wave and it would be impossible/impractical to change that... not to mention going to RNG brings gambling regulations into the mix.

Sadly I'm not sure there is a good way to do it unless MA manually inserted items into the pool at random times throughout a day... and designate a single individual to do this 24/7... once again impractical.

Also... yeah EU players get all of the good item loots. I couldn't have possibly had a change at the amps as it was 7am on a weekday in the eastern US. Something needs to be done to fix that part of the puzzle.


It's an imperfect system but I doubt it will get any better.
well they could still do it completely differently with using ingame tools to do so. for example they could use their new event system stuff to do mini events at random times throughout the different hunting zones with highest single loot wins the item after a 1 hour interval. everyone has a chance, ubers got bigger chances due to more kills and without buyin its fair for everyone. set the tt of the items to 1 pec so it has to be repaired first and they dont lose anything tt wise for giving it out as non loot.
 

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well they could still do it completely differently with using ingame tools to do so. for example they could use their new event system stuff to do mini events at random times throughout the different hunting zones with highest single loot wins the item after a 1 hour interval. everyone has a chance, ubers got bigger chances due to more kills and without buyin its fair for everyone. set the tt of the items to 1 pec so it has to be repaired first and they dont lose anything tt wise for giving it out as non loot.
Actually the system you described here wouldn't be the worst thing in the world... grinders would still have a good chance.. and dps would win more looting events and thus more items.. which should be the case as dps = higher spending in most cases.
 

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I didn't think there was a 'cap' as such...

I thought each and every item had a number of items in circulation per number of accounts.

So, Imk II for ex would be 100 per 1 million accounts

Whereas A101 would be 250k per 1 million accounts and so on and so on.

This would be why more (L) stuff drops, as they get used up and the amount per number of accounts needs to be maintained.

The number of Imk II is such because of numbers of accounts, not current active accounts.

If the limits have been reached on UnL items, not many more will drop[ till more players join to create more accounts...

It would also be the easiest to program from a developer point of view. No waves, no timer, no calculation, just how many are in circulation, how many accounts. Drop or don't.


Hence why people say that items get dumped back into 'lootpool' when confiscated from dead accounts....


But I could be wrong...
 
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I didn't think there was a 'cap' as such...

I thought each and every item had a number of items in circulation per number of accounts.

So, Imk II for ex would be 100 per 1 million accounts

Whereas A101 would be 250k per 1 million accounts and so on and so on.

This would be why more (L) stuff drops, as they get used up and the amount per number of accounts needs to be maintained.

The number of Imk II is such because of numbers of accounts, not current active accounts.

If the limits have been reached on UnL items, not many more will drop[ till more players join to create more accounts...

It would also be the easiest to program from a developer point of view. No waves, no timer, no calculation, just how many are in circulation, how many accounts. Drop or don't.


Hence why people say that items get dumped back into 'lootpool' when confiscated from dead accounts....


But I could be wrong...

the 2 years in a row exact same pattern for lac attack chip 7 shows that there is a cap and that they can change it like they want to... and the cap as that would be directly linked to the stuff you are describing, with the difference they can manually change it
 

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So the options seem to be, keep shooting "around the clock" during special events and hope your chances of looting when ma releases an item are good, like Messi91 and some others do ( which is why he always recommends people to "keep shooting"), or you can shoot only the short periods when you are able to, which reduces your chances compared to those who shoot more but you hope you get lucky, or you can just try to lower your costs with high efficiency and shoot when you can and hope you can just hang on with normal tt and mu and save your money and buy the items those other people loot. :laugh:
The latter (player-shopper) is the only option available to those who play a couple of hours in the evening after work/family/social life. Although I have no problem with the idea of rewarding players who spend more time in game, there is a gap in the game's fundamental logic as this approach is also reducing the player-shopper's interest is high end items and skilling up.

Tak
 

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On a side note, I got one of the (L) chips you describe (Lac Attack VII(L) ) from a Longtooth Old, (TT37 ped I think), along with about 25 ped of shrap. No global...

If you want it, you can have it for TT.
 

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I didn't think there was a 'cap' as such...

I thought each and every item had a number of items in circulation per number of accounts.

So, Imk II for ex would be 100 per 1 million accounts

Whereas A101 would be 250k per 1 million accounts and so on and so on.

This would be why more (L) stuff drops, as they get used up and the amount per number of accounts needs to be maintained.

The number of Imk II is such because of numbers of accounts, not current active accounts.

If the limits have been reached on UnL items, not many more will drop[ till more players join to create more accounts...

It would also be the easiest to program from a developer point of view. No waves, no timer, no calculation, just how many are in circulation, how many accounts. Drop or don't.


Hence why people say that items get dumped back into 'lootpool' when confiscated from dead accounts....


But I could be wrong...
I used to be torn between it being a dynamic cap or a static cap (modified individually by MA). Now I'm certain it is the latter, or at least, if it is a dynamic cap (linked to accounts) then MA can also modify it individually.

And seriously, this is not a new thing. When Hogglo were released in pvp3 (when that was also released) in 2004, they could drop the (also new) Imp Mk3. However both were looted in the first 15minutes of the VU and none have turned up since.
 
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I used to be torn between it being a dynamic cap or a static cap (modified individually by MA). Now I'm certain it is the latter, or at least, if it is a dynamic cap (linked to accounts) then MA can also modify it individually.

And seriously, this is not a new thing. When Hogglo were released in pvp3 (when that was also released) in 2004, they could drop the (also new) Imp Mk3. However both were looted in the first 15minutes of the VU and none have turned up since.
its not new ye but exactly that is total bullshit. i mean why even hunt when 99,9% of the time you dont even have a remote chance in finding an ultra rare item? those items are the only reason why im not 100% of the time on toulan as the loot is a lot better there. but i thought i wouldve had a little chance at least in looting something decent. but now we know thats its basically impossible.... so why even stay at caly?
 

mastermesh

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its not new ye but exactly that is total bullshit. i mean why even hunt when 99,9% of the time you dont even have a remote chance in finding an ultra rare item?
Just gotta get the right people on your cell phone calling you regularly, I suppose...
<mod removed link to "Anyone remember these threads?" emw thread on entropiaplanets forum
Just do a google search for that if you need the link I suppose...>

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ider-trading&p=2688146&viewfull=1#post2688146
 
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KyrismaStarsong

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So, apparently MA lied then and they're crappy loot system is far from fixed. Loot waves still exist for practical purposes, so nothing is better. Time to quit EU again I guess. I already sold out all my gear, when will they learn that people are getting tired of this crap.

Loot 2.0 FAIL.
 

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I have a [Lacerating Attack Nanochip VII] UL for sale in the forums tier 1.3 and it is not that expensive if someone wishes to own one PM me ingame or here, but yes the way they dropped is a bit sucky. The Mindforce Amps UL are dropping more spread out it looks like?
 
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Fiona Simmons

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The so called loot 2.0 looks more and more like just another of mindarks publicity stunts towards me. We had those in the past (Example modified loot wich got reversed back to normal loot after some time)

They flattend the curves so less big hofs and globals but more minnis and they introduced a stat thats tied to dpp and if you paid attention to dpp before its value is limited. The only good thing was about how armors work how.

But we still have waves and items still getting looted within hours after the items got injected into the system. We want a system were we can hunt no matter when and always have a chance to loot something good. And thats simply not true with EU's loot distribution system.

Mindark has to get rid of the waves and the issue that items drop within hours as soon they manually injected into the system to make this a fair expirience. As long this isn't here yet its no point in causual hunting. If you not a hardcore grinder your chances are almost zero to loot the good stuff based on your time zone.
 

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I've seen a lot of people saying that during US hours less items drop (To make it simple).
I have a thought about this which I've noticed myself.

I play for about 12-14 hours everyday currently (Inbetween jobs) and I have seen a MASSIVE decrease in player activity during US hours (My nighttime) which might correspond with why there are less item drops.

During the afternoon/evening (europe time) there's constant globaling even with minutes delay on the global ticker sometimes, during the US hours I have noticed that it can be up to a whole minute of no globals at all.

This might not explain rare items dropping at certain times, or maybe it does.
Just a thought that I'd like to share.
 
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