Returns too avatar-based

[Ivo Jahrumble]

This is a good point. The player base needs to pay for the game. Salaries, new deployment, server cost etc.
If we want the game to be cheaper we need more players. But to get more players the game needs to be cheaper to play...

Let me point out:

1- Adjust your gaming to your wallet. To me 200k turnover/month is excessive. To each their own. If you feel you are losing to much to fast adjust the stakes.

2- The game can get cheaper by having more markup avaliable not just by increasing TT returns. Being that those percentage points gained from skills/gear between 90%/98% are what is called "edge" when playing a competitive game.

3- To get new players we will need success storys of new players joining and being able to compete with the old guard actually playing the game. Not storys new players that buy a lot of deeds or buy in to god tier with their wallet. Game needs to be climbable to attract a lot of people in and back in frpm many old players who lurk patiently waiting for MA to undo the fuckup they started in 2014.

Until then you can bitch and scream all you want. Track TT returns as much as you want. As it is, math will always lead to -EV equations simply because the highturnover links of the economy were severed many years ago. No trading cycle between professions made the residual price of ores and residues drop a lot. And thats what kept most players afloat for longer in the old days.

 

[miathan]

as you are rewarded 25 PED skills for completing a codex repeat... it is 25 ped. POINT.
(Ofc need to use a ESI and loose some value in filling the chip) so its not fast cash but Skills have a PED value

I don't agree. You can't TT your skills. Sure, you can fill an ESI (loose 10% of the TT of the ESI) and TT the filled ESI.
But the PEDs you get back comes from the TT value of the ESI, not your skills.
To put it in another way, I don't think MA calculates the TT value of all the avatars skills in their "debt to players".

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Ma could give you 1 million ped in skills , and it would not cost MA a dime, in fact they make money. They make 10% from you when you decide to burn an ESI to extract it, they make their cut when you list the implant on auction, they make a cut when other players deposit to buy em, they make a cut when you withdraw the other players ped.
Why do you think MA loves giving us skill rewards? Easy way to motivate us and nice money pit for them.

 

[Art Jennifer]

Fact it takes millions of peds to get your looter level up and to buy a high eff gun to get a few * hypothetical * extra % back..

Tells you who MA target market is..

I for one know my budget restricts me to hunt snablesnots.. but my skills say I can hunt Dasp… That’s my challenge with the game..

 

[psyche]

Sounds great in a theory, but not.

I have a strong believe what mining is capped to 90%, at least it proven by my records for a year. And the problem is what you never get 100% of resources mined with any decent markup. In general it's 50% shit with 101%, ~25% of 110%, and ~25% with 140-200%

So it's isn't like you capped to 90% of TT return but can easily sell this 90% TT with 125% of mu. Also having -5%-15% losses on amps, ~-5% on finder - you practically have a very hard time to reach 95% return from mining.

I do know places where I can find mostly putty or other places full of redulite, and sometimes i get 50%-100% tt return as these two highly markuped mats. But in general it's just 1 claim out of 10, with hit rate of 30% (and dont forget deposit fee 4% of something)

That's disappointing. I was hoping that my mining tt return would average out to 95% ish like my hunting runs. So I guess I'm already at the expected 90% tt return for mining
So hunting tt return is about 95% ish and mining is at about 90%. I might have to consider going back to hunting lol. I'm still going to finish my mining cycle and find out for myself, but if 90% is the expected tt return for mining, then that's really disappointing. I wonder why they set hunting at 95% ish and mining at 90% ish. I know for hunting depending on your set up and looter skill etc. you can get up to 98% or even close 99% for the ubers (maybe?). I don't know if it's the same with mining. Can mining tools and looter levels get mining return closer to 95% return?

 

[messi91]

That’s my challenge with the game..

Its more like a challenge with yourself to be able to afford more money to be deposited.You need to find within yourself that motivation.
The game is built to be here for a long time.That's what we already know.What come and go are the players.

 

[Deepa2]

That's disappointing. I was hoping that my mining tt return would average out to 95% ish like my hunting runs. So I guess I'm already at the expected 90% tt return for mining
So hunting tt return is about 95% ish and mining is at about 90%. I might have to consider going back to hunting lol. I'm still going to finish my mining cycle and find out for myself, but if 90% is the expected tt return for mining, then that's really disappointing. I wonder why they set hunting at 95% ish and mining at 90% ish. I know for hunting depending on your set up and looter skill etc. you can get up to 98% or even close 99% for the ubers (maybe?). I don't know if it's the same with mining. Can mining tools and looter levels get mining return closer to 95% return?

I am not strong in hunting, but I guess when it become Loot 2.0, skills and weapon eff started to affect return.
Mining was never upgraded since 1.0 (basically finders/skills does not affect tt return)

 

[Art Jennifer]

Its more like a challenge with yourself to be able to afford more money to be deposited.You need to find within yourself that motivation.
The game is built to be here for a long time.That's what we already know.What come and go are the players.

Challenge is there is no proof "Investing" in your avatar pays off. I do not mean a player saying it. I mean evidence from the game that as you build your avatar, gain skills, get better higher eff gear your TT returns improve.

I only play for fun, but I know plenty of players, putting in the time and money and getting no increase in TT+ results.

(Not counting MU as, irrelevant to MA. MU is the only way to increase returns)

 

[messi91]

I mean evidence from the game that as you build your avatar, gain skills, get better higher eff gear your TT returns improve.

• Hunters with turnover of more than 50000 PED since Sept. 11 have enjoyed returns of 98.6% on average.
• Hunters with turnover between 10000 and 50000 PED since Sept. 11 have enjoyed returns of 97.05% on average.
• Accounts created in 2017 have enjoyed returns of 96.94% on average since the changes implemented on Sept. 11.

I believe this should answer your question.Sure you don't have to believe it but if you don't feel free to sue them.
Now that you have the proof, what will you do with it?

 

[Art Jennifer]

• Hunters with turnover of more than 50000 PED since Sept. 11 have enjoyed returns of 98.6% on average.
• Hunters with turnover between 10000 and 50000 PED since Sept. 11 have enjoyed returns of 97.05% on average.
• Accounts created in 2017 have enjoyed returns of 96.94% on average since the changes implemented on Sept. 11.

I believe this should answer your question.Sure you don't have to believe it but if you don't feel free to sue them.
Now that you have the proof, what will you do with it?

I work in marketing strategy. This is classic, I'm going to pick a good batch of numbers.

However, as I have only really taken mining seriously and enjoyed lovely 80% returns with with over 50,000 cycled YTD... I will now do the same with hunting and see what happens...

Hold my beer.

 

[Jhereg]

Challenge is there is no proof "Investing" in your avatar pays off. I do not mean a player saying it. I mean evidence from the game that as you build your avatar, gain skills, get better higher eff gear your TT returns improve.

I only play for fun, but I know plenty of players, putting in the time and money and getting no increase in TT+ results.

(Not counting MU as, irrelevant to MA. MU is the only way to increase returns)

FYI: - How Loot Returns Work as Function of Looter Level and Efficiency, Based on Actual Data, as of March 3rd, 2022

Update 20220911: I have measured the effect on TT at three additional looter level points, using my method of extracting the lowest multiplier and with the reaper blade. The observed trend is still the same. I have placed the data at the end of this point along with a brief description. A...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

 

[Sulje]

FYI: - How Loot Returns Work as Function of Looter Level and Efficiency, Based on Actual Data, as of March 3rd, 2022

Update 20220911: I have measured the effect on TT at three additional looter level points, using my method of extracting the lowest multiplier and with the reaper blade. The observed trend is still the same. I have placed the data at the end of this point along with a brief description. A...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

Data based on 1 avatar or 1000 avatars ? Thank you

 

[Deepa2]

Data based on 1 avatar or 1000 avatars ? Thank you

Are you joking here? Where will they get 1000 active avatars in this game to make up this stat?

 

[messi91]

Where will they get 1000 active avatars in this game to make up this stat?

Hunting Rank: x of 3 675 by a simple reading tracker outside the event only in the hunting profession, not counting teams.

 

[Jhereg]

Here's the basic problem with the premise of the thread...There's no avatar based 'luck'. The system doesn't care who you are.

Here's the simple analogy.

The system flips a coin, heads you win, tails you lose. 50/50 chance.

You and your friend each flips 3 coins. Out of all combinations you and your friend could have of the results, there are 64 outcomes

In 20 of the cases will you have the same result as your friend. in 44/64 cases, someone will seem to "win".

In the long run, you will have the same result as your friend (same number of heads and tails). But in the short term, more often than not, there will appear to be a winner.

*Corrected my numbers*

 

[Sulje]

Here's the basic problem with the premise of the thread...There's no avatar based 'luck'. The system doesn't care who you are.

Here's the simple analogy.

The system flips a coin, heads you win, tails you lose. 50/50 chance.

You and your friend each flips 3 coins. Out of all combinations you and your friend could have of the results, there are 64 outcomes

In 20 of the cases will you have the same result as your friend. in 44/64 cases, someone will seem to "win".

In the long run, you will have the same result as your friend (same number of heads and tails). But in the short term, more often than not, there will appear to be a winner.

*Corrected my numbers*

In the long term someone will get 55 rare tokens, someone will get 0.

Before this new mayhem system, I was never able to get 5k points, and I was hunting literally 15-16 hours a day with top gear for my category, literally best gear there is. One time I got 5k pointer it was in the worst run where my average points per hour was 800, so I ended up 4th i think.

At the same time, friend does 1 run with Zorra HK tier 5, and gets 3x 5k pointer.

At the same time while i grind my ass off in the new system, person gets 4-5 rare M tokens per mayhem, while i get 0.

 

[Jhereg]

In the long term someone will get 55 rare tokens, someone will get 0.

I'm not talking about actual stuff being looted, just the tt return...

The black box of the actual items being looted works in strange ways...lol. I hope one day that somehow MA can make that fairer...

 

[Sulje]

I'm not talking about actual stuff being looted, just the tt return...

The black box of the actual items being looted works in strange ways...lol. I hope one day that somehow MA can make that fairer...

TT return is also up and down, while some people experience 80%, some experience 120%, total average for player base might be 98% or not, we will never know, it's best to shoot and pray, as that's all we can do.

 

[psyche]

I am not strong in hunting, but I guess when it become Loot 2.0, skills and weapon eff started to affect return.
Mining was never upgraded since 1.0 (basically finders/skills does not affect tt return)

I can see hunting loot 2.0 did change a lot of things, but I do recall the even before loot 2.0 hunting returns was still at about 95% based on your set up. Mainly, as long as you have a good dpp and you hunt for a very long time, your tt return should be near 95% give or take.
I guess I can see mining being set at about 90%
Then crafting would probably be even lower. I have not touched crafting yet, but I guess that's the trend.
Hunting has better tt return and less MU.
Mining has a bit less tt return but better MU than hunting.
Then crafting following this trend should have even worse tt return, but much higher MU than hunting and mining.
Not sure if this is an accurate conclusion lol.

 

[Alina]

I can see hunting loot 2.0 did change a lot of things, but I do recall the even before loot 2.0 hunting returns was still at about 95% based on your set up. Mainly, as long as you have a good dpp and you hunt for a very long time, your tt return should be near 95% give or take.
I guess I can see mining being set at about 90%
Then crafting would probably be even lower. I have not touched crafting yet, but I guess that's the trend.
Hunting has better tt return and less MU.
Mining has a bit less tt return but better MU than hunting.
Then crafting following this trend should have even worse tt return, but much higher MU than hunting and mining.
Not sure if this is an accurate conclusion lol.

Hunting tt return can be adjusted with more eff. Crafting is based on the bp 90 or 95% SR.

 

[Art Jennifer]

In the long term someone will get 55 rare tokens, someone will get 0.

Before this new mayhem system, I was never able to get 5k points, and I was hunting literally 15-16 hours a day with top gear for my category, literally best gear there is. One time I got 5k pointer it was in the worst run where my average points per hour was 800, so I ended up 4th i think.

At the same time, friend does 1 run with Zorra HK tier 5, and gets 3x 5k pointer.

At the same time while i grind my ass off in the new system, person gets 4-5 rare M tokens per mayhem, while i get 0.

Agreed this is somewhat frustrating. Think there are many of us that can feel your pain on this..

Classic - someone TPs in kills a few mobs, drops a few bombs and hits the +20k. Then all you get in return is the "yeah, but you don't know what they spent"... Ok sure, I'll just shut my mouth when my TT negative is more than most peoples TT turnover...... #ragequit.

My avatar is bugged. Been saying it for years now or I'll hit an ATH soon.

Either way, where is my credit card..

 

[Guarana]

Loot system was never ment to be / work like it is now.

 

[Vadio]

As i said in other topic or even this

Most of this is minning , No Taxed

I even other values not yet transfered to excel after 24/02/22

Spend : 27000
Return : 16545
(also Minning mainly)

Sorry mindark... i cant accepty rank 108 prospector

using terramaster 8 (rank 60 finder) and roctec cougr(rank 65 finder) with lvl5/D-class get rekt like this
Also not embrace you damm wave system.... people can argue its minning you can easly archive 115% yes in fact Argus its only place in game you can archive that , i mean LIE you can farm Wave Frakite no amp for rest you life.... i need say the rock doing good job on that

Even so 90.48 * 1.15 = 104.52% someone put account in markup spend on amps? also dont forget decay
Yes Minning no amp its only way to do , in fact only way

Fews times per week/sometimes month you give us power hours , like yasterday when people hit 20k oil , fews others big hit foma as well but most interresing hti yasterday is berycled 3k.....

Fews times also particular in event you give us boost loot , Dec 1 (VU Update day / Caly) util Dec 15 - ( Simon 60k iron ath) when you turn you shits off again
mindark also tried apply waves in argus around 16 jan - 2022 but they give up around 20 jan since they not increase tt

My ask stop with wave bullshit
Stop pragmatic nerfs all places...
Make TT back scale with skills and tools like 2017-2018 can be even 2019 before nerf
Or at last make damm statment wtf guys doing.... for all this drain ? its UE5? that take all this money ?

Also Kickback exist since i start play this game in 2008 dont screw with that or will go call Swedish gamble law

 

[Alina]

Vadio thats 2 months of hardcore mining on Argus area. So your sample is low af

 

[JohnCapital]

Vadio thats 2 months of hardcore mining on Argus area. So your sample is low af

I love how 2 mo ths of playing is considered too low of a sample.

OK how about 2+ years that I already mentioned earlier?

"Returns too avatar-based"

Meh, I'm ok w/ that idea. Here's my results over the past 3 years spread out over the 3 main professions. (I have many more years, but you get the idea. The other years are also amazingly consistent in returns)
Note 1 year I was MUCH more active than the other, yet the general returns were pretty consistent percentage-wise.

Or do you insist on seeing my logs running all the way back to 2010?

 

[Vadio]

I mean if you give 30k ped rigth now , and fews weeks without fuckers screw with me(avoid stress) in argus i do any test guys want... is fuck beyond common
and yes i minning in this game since 2008 and its first time i seel this kind bullshit tt cap 90% no taxed / no any good multi or anything even , alot shit mu using high end finder AT 1000m sometimes go full retart use 10 enhancer at tm8 that lead 1859m depth and still hit average mu like using dsec....

 

[Ivo Jahrumble]

I mean if you give 30k ped rigth now , and fews weeks without fuckers screw with me(avoid stress) in argus i do any test guys want... is fuck beyond common
and yes i minning in this game since 2008 and its first time i seel this kind bullshit tt cap 90% no taxed / no any good multi or anything even , alot shit mu using high end finder AT 1000m sometimes go full retart use 10 enhancer at tm8 that lead 1859m depth and still hit average mu like using dsec....

Found this claim in another thread Vadio. It goes hand in hand with what you have been claiming. And my last mining runs also kind of support it. Could be just bad variance, but can also be a bug.

Since the playerbase is actually the Q/A team in entropia I strongly suggest you try to replicate this and report it as you are one of the biggest miners in game.

"OP there's been a mining glitch lately where the server thinks that you are dropping probes in the same place and this results in a bad hitrate. If you youse LBML you can try and relog after a long unusual streak of NRFs, the game will throw you back where you where minute ago and you will clearly see it because of the circles on the map, but the probes will still be gone from your inventory. I noticed this on a few planets and reported it, not sure about Calypso tho, gotta think the servers there are maintained better."