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Revisiting the loot discussion

aVaLON_52

aVaLON_52

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Avalon Butterfly Erupter
Wanted to revisit the discussion as nothing is set in stone per se and everything is up for discussion.

The reason I want to revisit the discussion. Well I would like to believe everything I hear but you might think I'm a bit naive if that were the case. What got me wondering about this topic again was this statement:

"Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors".

Which was originally posted here but no longer exists. Why was it removed? Unintentional? or the claim no longer holds true?

May require some testing. I'm curious now about overamping and unmaxed weapons. Just topic, open to discussion if you care to share your thoughts on the matter. Here are some related links. Also still curious about the degree to which DPP affects loot composition as well as how big of a deal is efficiency, does it really make much of a difference?


¤ Developer Notes #14 - Loot 2.0 Update

¤ List of official statments pertaining to loot post 2.0

EDIT ****

apparently that link was broken.
Here is that post for above reference:
www.entropiauniverse.com

Entropia Universe - Developer-Notes-11-Loot-2.0

Later this month, MindArk will be releasing a special Loot 2.0 Version Update that will overhaul the way in which hunting loot is calculated and distr
www.entropiauniverse.com

Feel free to share your thoughts on the topic.

Cheers!
 
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Well, I can kick this off at a low level easily enough by looking at something like bone drops from small caly noob mobs.
If you are inefficient then the ratio of bones in loot goes down. The bones are not of tt interest, but for a mission, however you can see that higher overkill costs, for example, lower the composition of loot from 1-in-7 bone drops to less than that, even if not zero even when otherwise getting just shrap.
Other loots with mu don't always follow this, however, and can drop at seemingly the same rate even on relatively high overkill, for example. It seems they are not counted by the lootpool as high quality... it's all a bit hit and miss what loot increases relatively with better efficiency etc.
 
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aVaLON_52 said:
Still curious about the degree to which DPP affects loot composition
Click to expand...

My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that a higher dpp allows you get more loot events (kills) within the same PED cycle than a lower dpp. Therefore you have a larger number of chances to loot different items compared to when you have less loot events.

Overkilling a mob will then also lower your effective dpp as you are paying the same price to deal the killing blow, still returning decay but with a higher composition of shrapnel to make up for the extra decay used on the mob.
 
Droob said:
...
Click to expand...

it's not only extra shrap to make up for higher cost, but absolute tt values of composition loot can go down. Some mobs can give up to 1,2,3 etc of some stuff per kill, yes, so cheaper kills does mean you can increase your return ratios of that stuff that way too, but that is not a "loot composition" issue in quite the same way as the loot pool lowering your chance of getting a particular loot because you were inefficient.
 
OP: Your link is just broken. The dev note is still here:

www.entropiauniverse.com

Entropia Universe - Developer-Notes-11-Loot-2.0

Later this month, MindArk will be releasing a special Loot 2.0 Version Update that will overhaul the way in which hunting loot is calculated and distr
www.entropiauniverse.com
 
The more overamp or bad DPP you have, the less room you will leave for loots like oils, Bio ID etc. because the game will have to compensate the extra cost with shrapnel. A good dpp these days is close to 4, rather than ~3 before loot 2.0.
So bad efficiency = loosing TT
Bad DPP = 1. loosing opportunities to loot other stuff besides shrapnel and 2. A lot less looting events.


There's a belief that if using extremely low DPP will result in fat ESI or fat loot - a big fat RIP to the wallets of the guys attempting this path.
 
Evey said:
The more overamp or bad DPP you have, the less room you will leave for loots like oils, Bio ID etc. because the game will have to compensate the extra cost with shrapnel. A good dpp these days is close to 4, rather than ~3 before loot 2.0.
So bad efficiency = loosing TT
Bad DPP = 1. loosing opportunities to loot other stuff besides shrapnel and 2. A lot less looting events.


There's a belief that if using extremely low DPP will result in fat ESI or fat loot - a big fat RIP to the wallets of the guys attempting this path.
Click to expand...

Just curious. Perhaps there is no way to tell, but do you think DPP plays a role in uber rare item loot?
 
I have an example that I do over and over again 3 or 4 times a week. I hunt Kerberos west of Osere, higher maturities up to Stalker. I hunt these with Armatrix BC-45 and beast amp. I also have L4 with Dante. Both these setups will give me a large amount of muscle oil every 30 - 50 loot events, ie I will have a particular loot event that will be anywhere from 30 ped to 60 ped with over half the loot being muscle oil. The amount varies, I could get all muscle oil or as little as 20% of the loot value. I tried doing the same with Armatrix LR-15 and A104 amp, I do not receive as much muscle oil (as a %) in these runs. I will try a run with a Karma Killer and A104 this evening to see what the results are but my feeling is that I would get more shrapnel and less muscle oil.
 
Evey said:
There's a belief that if using extremely low DPP will result in fat ESI or fat loot - a big fat RIP to the wallets of the guys attempting this path.
Click to expand...

So you have tried this and confirmed that it does not work over an extended period?
 
binfordw said:
So you have tried this and confirmed that it does not work over an extended period?
Click to expand...
HAHA No! It's in my best interest to learn from the mistake of others and to look and analyze data I have, and there's plenty around.... plus you can test the new mechanics, loot 2.0 weapons, looter levels, feel free to prove me wrong tho.
 
What Evey said, the obvious benefits of high DPP are more looting events for the same ped spent, and better composition (assuming you're hunting mobs that drop stuff with >1% MU, otherwise shrap is your friend).

There's also an indication from some tests that mobs give off more high MU loot, i.e. it's not only less shrap in loot (because of cheaper kills), but more of the good stuff drops more often(say 1 pec basic leather extractors, skins etc). I have yet to test this myself.

In any case, highest possible DPP is a nobrainer outside of HSL events. Just remember that DPP doesn't mean cheapest kill (if you use 3 shots per mob with a 5 DPP gun, it will still cost more than 10 shots with a 4 DPP gun on average due to alot more overkill).
 
Seems to me that optimal loot is all about cost to kill.
Let's break this down:

For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as:

- low damage output compared to creature health
Mob has more time to regen -> increased cost to kill

- excessive time and cost to kill
Mob has more time to regen -> increased cost to kill

- overkill damage
Higher cost to kill

- unmaxed weapons
Unmaxed HA-> missed shots -> mob has more time to regen -> increased cost to kill (also tt loss as these are not returned in normal loot)
Unmaxed CA -> less crits -> increased cost to kill
Unmaxed dmg -> low dpp -> higher cost to kill

- other factors
scope & sights -> higher cost to kill
overamping -> higher cost to kill
low dpp -> higer cost to kill
critical hits -> more crits is better as it lowers cost and increased critical dmg buff helps as well
defencive costs?

High dpp helps a lot but there are other factors to keep the total cost to kill as low as possible.
 
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Just a quick reply, with two parts from that statement that some seem to have missed:

1. " Many of the features and systems added over the past few years have gradually led to this update,
which will significantly improve overall loot returns for the vast majority (upwards of 98%) of participants."

2. " Loot calculations will be optimized and improved to better factor in the various costs associated with
hunting activity, including: healing, ammo consumption, buffs, tool and armor deterioration, attachments, and more."

Why I add this? They don't say it's a totaly new system, it's still same fundamentals but that is now updated as one
system instead of one basic with a lot of add ons, they also say system improved and have extra parameters in the
loot calculation.

Another thing to remember is that DPP is "statistics over time" while Efficiency is per interaction.
Might look as something irrelevant but it isn't, you will not fully understand and improve if you don't find out all the
mechanism of interactions.
 
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