Scamming Methods Exposed

[Pepper]

This is a thread about scammers and how they operate.

Since there is money involved in this game, and even more so the possibility to withdraw money from this game, scammers is an issue we have to deal with. But we certainly don't don't have to accept them.
My idea is that this thread should be a forum to expose the old and new scamming attempts, and the strategies and MO's of the scammers.

Naming of scammers is not allowed in this forum, and consequently not in this thread either.

I hope this thread can grow in a serious and constructive way, and be the weapon against the scammers for all of us, and a heads-up and tutorial for new players of EU and participants in this Forum.

Feel free to add, but please read the previous posts to avoid confrontation with our less understanding and patience members of this community

I also, if possible, like to keep this thread free of a philosophical masturbation of the question what is a scam?. Please start a new thread if you find this subject necessary to scrutinize.
It would be great if you think twice before posting off-topic posts, does it really belong in this thread?
I will make it really simple and once and for all exclude this:
Resellers are NOT scammers, no matter what our feelings are for the phenomena. Reselling is a legit product and consequence of the free market.

Expose the scammers!​

Scams can be categorized as:

• ESI/Skill Chip Scam
• Event Scam
• Item Theft
• Lending Scam
• Pilot/Hangar Scam
• Trust Scam
• Trade Scam
• Upgrade/Coloring/Repair Scam
• Mentor/Disciple Scam
• Team hunt scam

[/LIST](in progress)



Scams exposed so far:


1. Armor upgrade/armor painting [byepper]
2. Sweating skill upgrade [by:GeorgeUso]
3. Trade "dysfunction" - drop items on the ground [by:LeeLoo Faith]
4. Weapons upgrade [by: jw350]
5. Trade scam -cleared window ( also see minsten p.3, Selena p.4 ) [by:Starrabbit]
6. False pilots [by:Midori Fairlona]
7. Lotteries, Lotto [by:Superhal]
8. Black market items/Escort fee [by:Rowdoc]
9. TP runs for fee [by:Rowdoc]
10. Disciple Scam (free gifts) [by:Yquem]
11. "Borrow until I deposit" [by:minsten]
12. Free coloring of clothes [by:Milesio]
13. Broken (L) items in auction [by:SpikE Odets]
14. Pecs not Peds in trade [by:Selena]


External recommended links:
EU-Forces Scam page
Original Scammers List

All my best to all of you!

 

[Pepper]

1st lesson

The two by far most common, as well as oldest, scams in the game are The Armor Upgrade and Armor Coloring scams.

To cut straight to the point: Armors can not be upgraded, nor can they be colored - by anyone.

The most important thing in any trade is to use your common sense. If a deal sounds to good to be true - it probably is. Mind Ark sees every trade as final, and they will not help you just because you didn't think before handing over your gear in the hands of an anonymous avatar.
Many scammers are simply using your own greed as the tool of their operations. If someone tells you that they can upgrade your 15 PED pixie armor to a 20.000 PED Shadow for a fee of 50 PED, there is something very strange about it , don't you agree? But unfortunately, all scams are far from that obvious (and still, I assure you that countless people have fallen for these old Armor Scams - and more will in the future).

A really good and simple rule to cling on to in trading is this:
Never trade anything without security (collateral) that you can't afford to loose.

 

[GeorgeUsu]

New Scam Found:
This was a while ago, a noob at the swamp camp was talkin' to me and she asked me if I was interested in getting my sweat gathering skill points up to 1k..all she was asking in return was 1k of sweat , I played around with her asking how she would do it and she said that she would plant a sweat gathering skill chip inside of me using mind essance.

Please do not fall for this scam people.

 

[711]

I have moved this thread to the Technical/Security subforum, however perhaps it is better placed in the n00bs Corner or Sticky Threads section.

I am open to suggestions.

+Rep, nice thread Pepper!

 

[Vedder]

Hmm.. Hope this is not going to be the handbook for all new scammers.
...But generally I believe that information is better than no-information, so let's ignore that possibility


However... The worst scams there is, and the most painful ones are the trust-scams.
In the past some scumbags have pretended to be someones friend and gained their trust over a very long period of time... Maybe even 1 year or more... Before they finally run off with everything they can get their hands on.

So... Even though 99% of the players in EU are decent and trustable people, watch out for the last 1%... They pretend to be nice and trustable too.

 

[LeeLoo Faith]

the "trade is not working" scam.

Some people try to scam you with this trick, they want to trade with you but then they say it doesn't work and move to a quieter place and let you drop your stuff on the ground first. They pick it up and run ..
Never drop anything on the ground!

another trade scam is not putting everything in the trade window or removing their item at the right time, you click agree and their item is not in.
check all traded items carefully before you click Accept!

 

[Superhal]

The Psychology of Scamming

First of all, most scammers are not bad people. They are stupid people. They fell for a scam, and thus refuse to believe they are that stupid. Therefore, they try to catch somebody else with the same scam to make themselves feel less stupid.

If you have ever been the target of a scam attempt, often the scammer will screw up the trick and try for a do over. ("Oh wait wait wait!" or "Ha ha, you're too smart for that one eh?" being most common.)

There are actually very few true scammers. In reality, there are thousands of stupid people catching each other with the same tired tricks over and over again, thus, like a virus, expanding the number of scams being perpetuated. Imho, they are so stupid they can't even see the criminality of the act. There is only a little bit of vocabulary protecting them from being arrested for theft, which is the difference between an item and a virtual item. A virtual item can have value, and thus if it is stolen, you should be persecuted under the same laws that rule shoplifting or fraud. That the law only covers physical items is temporary and is bound to change, especially as virtual items start costing thousands of dollars.

So, the next time somebody tries to scam you, don't get mad. Feel sorry for the little bugger who wasn't sharp enough to figure out what happened to them first. I'm usually polite and say "Sorry you fell for that, but it won't work on me. Try somebody else." In general, this makes them feel 100X worse.

 

[LarsMac]

the "trade is not working" scam.

Some people try to scam you with this trick, they want to trade with you but then they say it doesn't work and move to a quieter place and let you drop your stuff on the ground first. They pick it up and run ..
Never drop anything on the ground!

another trade scam is not putting everything in the trade window or removing their item at the right time, you click agree and their item is not in.
check all traded items carefully before you click Accept!

Good points.

The key to avoiding "trade scams" is to never be in a hurry to conduct a trade.
Carefully review the items being offered, and make sure all that is expected is there, before clicking confirm.
Then, carefully review the summary of the trade, before clicking accept.

If you fail to do this, you made the scam possible, and are as much to blame as the scammer. You MUST approach the trade from this perspective.

 

[boborod]

post removed

 

[Pepper]

The Psychology of Scamming

First of all, most scammers are not bad people. They are stupid people. They fell for a scam, and thus refuse to believe they are that stupid. Therefore, they try to catch somebody else with the same scam to make themselves feel less stupid.

If you have ever been the target of a scam attempt, often the scammer will screw up the trick and try for a do over. ("Oh wait wait wait!" or "Ha ha, you're too smart for that one eh?" being most common.)

There are actually very few true scammers. In reality, there are thousands of stupid people catching each other with the same tired tricks over and over again, thus, like a virus, expanding the number of scams being perpetuated. Imho, they are so stupid they can't even see the criminality of the act. There is only a little bit of vocabulary protecting them from being arrested for theft, which is the difference between an item and a virtual item. A virtual item can have value, and thus if it is stolen, you should be persecuted under the same laws that rule shoplifting or fraud. That the law only covers physical items is temporary and is bound to change, especially as virtual items start costing thousands of dollars.

So, the next time somebody tries to scam you, don't get mad. Feel sorry for the little bugger who wasn't sharp enough to figure out what happened to them first. I'm usually polite and say "Sorry you fell for that, but it won't work on me. Try somebody else." In general, this makes them feel 100X worse.

"The greatest achievement the devil ever did, was to convince people that he doesn't excist..."

I have to comment this Superhal.
What you're talking about are small time hustlers, and they are out there too - true. But there are undeniably very well organized scammers out there, and they are anything but stupid. The good scammer gains your trust, he plays on your own greed and vanity, he knows when to quit, and that a pawn sacrifice in fact leads to a bigger loot in the end. He makes you think you came up with the idea - he may even seem reluctant to the deal. The skilled scammer is very hard to spot at first glance - numerous people trough out history have found them self standing in total surprise with all their things gone, asking themselves: How did this happen? How could I be so stupid..?! The truth is that they weren't, it was just the scammer who was smarter.
A good scammer is like a fisherman - he throws out some bread to attract the fish, then he trows out the lure to see if any one nibbles the hook. Then he waits, because like any good fisherman he knows; it takes time to swallow the bait... And he never loose a fish because of impatience.

Please, don't kid yourself in thinking you will out smart any scammer you meet, because you won't.
And they are not worth pity. They will without hesitation rob you of everything you own. These guys are common thieves - nothing else.

If your not sure - don't make the deal.
If you suspect a scam, take screen shots and preferably one with the avatar scanned.
Always note avatar name, time and place if a scam occur. Press C and P on the keyboard and you get time and position visible in the chat.

Do what you can, and use your common sense - but don't let the devil convince you that he doesn't exist.

 

[Glipster]

The Psychology of Scamming

First of all, most scammers are not bad people. They are stupid people. They fell for a scam, and thus refuse to believe they are that stupid. Therefore, they try to catch somebody else with the same scam to make themselves feel less stupid.

If you have ever been the target of a scam attempt, often the scammer will screw up the trick and try for a do over. ("Oh wait wait wait!" or "Ha ha, you're too smart for that one eh?" being most common.)

There are actually very few true scammers. In reality, there are thousands of stupid people catching each other with the same tired tricks over and over again, thus, like a virus, expanding the number of scams being perpetuated. Imho, they are so stupid they can't even see the criminality of the act. There is only a little bit of vocabulary protecting them from being arrested for theft, which is the difference between an item and a virtual item. A virtual item can have value, and thus if it is stolen, you should be persecuted under the same laws that rule shoplifting or fraud. That the law only covers physical items is temporary and is bound to change, especially as virtual items start costing thousands of dollars.

So, the next time somebody tries to scam you, don't get mad. Feel sorry for the little bugger who wasn't sharp enough to figure out what happened to them first. I'm usually polite and say "Sorry you fell for that, but it won't work on me. Try somebody else." In general, this makes them feel 100X worse.

I completely disagree with your logic. I think you have deluded yourself. Feel bad for a scammer? I think not! Whether they themselves were scammed (doubtful) or not, it's wrong. They are taking advantage of ignorance.

 

[Superhal]

Pepper,

Yep, there's certainly expert scammers out there, but few of us will ever meet them. They're out for the big hauls. Much more likely are the ones trying to feel less stupid.

 

[Pepper]

Pepper,

Yep, there's certainly expert scammers out there, but few of us will ever meet them. They're out for the big hauls. Much more likely are the ones trying to feel less stupid.

I really don't know where you getting your information about scammers being presumed victims from Superhal. There's very little support for your statements in Criminology and Psychology. One thing many scammers do have in common though, are that they often come from an environment that encourage, often even demands, such behavior due to poverty and lack of means.
I'll wont go any further in this, since it's off topic.

 

[jw350]

I heard about this one a weapons upgrade scam. They want you to give them your weapon and they will increase the fire rate.Can't be done no one can do this for you.

 

[LarsMac]

Pepper,

Yep, there's certainly expert scammers out there, but few of us will ever meet them. They're out for the big hauls. Much more likely are the ones trying to feel less stupid.

Well, I have met both the expert and the amateur. They are both equally detestable. It matters little to me why they are trying to scam. I will make every attempt to get them locked out, either way.

 

[-Ra]

Imho, they are so stupid they can't even see the criminality of the act. There is only a little bit of vocabulary protecting them from being arrested for theft, which is the difference between an item and a virtual item. A virtual item can have value, and thus if it is stolen, you should be persecuted under the same laws that rule shoplifting or fraud. That the law only covers physical items is temporary and is bound to change, especially as virtual items start costing thousands of dollars.

First let me start by saying I agree that scammers suck and it would be nice if they did not exist. But...
It actually, it is not theft, and unless MA is willing to change the EULA and declare that anything you have is yours, then there will neverbe any chance of prosicution. Infact, if MA was to lock an account for scamming, (without refunding any money deposited by the scammer) MA could face a possible lawsuit themselves. In most places I would imagine it is unlawfull for a company to offer a product and when the customer pays, he/she is entitled to some sort of service.
I don't know about Sweeden law, but I know a lawsuit could be opened in the USA against them. and knowing the hatred for big buisness' by Americans. the jury is sure to side against MA.

Anyway, back to ownership and theft. It can't be stolen if...
1- you don't own it, and the person who takes it also after taking still does not own it. Everything is MA's and since it is all nothing more than a bunch of lines of code, it can never be removed from game, therefore, never stolen. MA still has possession of their items.

7. Ownership
The System, including, but not limited to, computer code, text, graphics, audio files, logos, button icons, images, characters, items, concepts, data compilation and software, is the property of MindArk and protected by Swedish and international copyright laws.

MindArk, MindArk PE, Project Entropia, Entropia Universe and other marks indicated on the Entropia Universe’s website are registered trademarks of MindArk in Sweden. Any Entropia Universe design and any other MindArk graphics, logos or button icons are trademarks of MindArk.

Virtual items will often have names similar or identical to corresponding physical categories such as "people," "real estate," "possessions," and the names of specific items in those categories such as "house," "rifle," "tools," "armor," etc. Despite the similar names, all virtual items are part of the System and MindArk retains all rights, title, and interest in all parts including, but not limited to Avatars and Virtual Items; these retained rights include, without limitation, patent, copyright, trademark, trade secret and other proprietary rights throughout the world.

As part of your interactions with the System, you may acquire, create, design, or modify Virtual Items, but you agree that you will not gain any ownership interest whatsoever in any Virtual Item, and you hereby assign to MindArk all of your rights, title and interest in any such Virtual Item.

Sorry if this is a little off topic
I think thread is a great idea to get all scams out there to hopefully this will educate those who still don't know. +rep

 

[Starrabbit]

I'm suprised no one has yet to mention they old Trade Scam where by the "Scammer" quickly clears the peds/items away from his window before confirmation. This in turn makes the BUYER think the peds/items is still in his window and accepting the trade. This was one of the first scam I was unfortunately a victim of about 2 years ago.

This of course can be avoided if the BUYER always always check the confirmation page to see if all items/peds are in order before accepting.

P.S. Is this Thread a scam too? Fishing for +reps? Well he scammed me... +rep for you..

 

[Xen]

- numerous people trough out history have found them self standing in total surprise with all their things gone, asking themselves: How did this happen? How could I be so stupid..?! The truth is that they weren't, it was just the scammer who was smarter.

Let's not give credit where it is not necessarily due. One certainly does not even have to possess average intelligence to be a good scammer. They just have to be selfish, insensitive, a good liar/storyteller, perhaps a bit patient (long term trust scams), and have no conscience whatsoever.

 

[Pepper]

Let's not give credit where it is not necessarily due. One certainly does not even have to possess average intelligence to be a good scammer. They just have to be selfish, insensitive, a good liar/storyteller, perhaps a bit patient (long term trust scams), and have no conscience whatsoever.

Don't forget a really good reader of people - which is what makes a scammer successful or not.
I have no admiration what so ever for scammers, and I'm certainly not trying to give them credit. That's the precise reason why i started this thread - to make it as tough as possibler for them to operate in this game.
What I do recognize though is that if they're successful - they're no fools as stated in the post I replied.
To underestimate your opponent is the most common reason for defeat.
Know your enemy.

 

[Pepper]

It actually, it is not theft, and unless MA is willing to change the EULA and declare that anything you have is yours, then there will neverbe any chance of prosicution. Infact, if MA was to lock an account for scamming, (without refunding any money deposited by the scammer) MA could face a possible lawsuit themselves. In most places I would imagine it is unlawfull for a company to offer a product and when the customer pays, he/she is entitled to some sort of service.
I don't know about Sweeden law, but I know a lawsuit could be opened in the USA against them. and knowing the hatred for big buisness' by Americans. the jury is sure to side against MA.

1. It's without a doubt a crime when you take something that belongs to someone else without that persons consent, claiming that an improvement is to be made for a fee, and then never return the item. Otherwise would very few cars ever be repaired in a shop. What of course MA could do if they wanted, was to implement a recite system regarding transactions in trading. But they won't.
   
   
2. MA reserves the right to terminate any account - without reason.
   [5:6] Account Inactivity and Account Termination
   MindArk may terminate this Agreement upon notice to the Participant. Such termination may be made without reason, and may be for one or more Participants. EULA]
   
   
3. Since you accept this ENTROPIA UNIVERSE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (EULA) every time you log on, you have in fact declined the right to a lawuit.
   
   
4. EU is soly bound by Swedish law.
   [11]. Governing Law
   This Agreement is to be governed by, construed and enforced according to the laws of Sweden. You agree that any future dispute that might arise between you and MindArk is to be governed by the laws of Sweden and that any principles of conflicts of laws will not be applicable with regards to this Agreement EULA]
   
   
5. Even if there would be a lawsuit in the US, there wouldn't be a Jury trail.

A hot tip is to spend a few minutes to actually read the EULA. Even if you don't understand the impact of the language according to the law - you atleast get an idea what rights you have - which can easily be summed up to: none.

This is partly the reason why I started this thread - we have to create a network to stop the scammers, and this is atleast one way of exposing thier strategies.

I hope more people will see the importance of this thread and contribute with tips on how the scammers operate. Knowledge is the best tool we got against the scammers - let's use it.

 

[timmmers]

I agree with Pepper, there's no good in scammers and they certainly aren't stupid or to be pitied. A few people probably get conned, and due to lack of moral fibre they decide to recoup their loss by passing on the hurt to someone else......usually someone unable to afford it. They prey on good faith and trust and warp it and degrade it for us all until we can't afford to trust anyone. That is the saddest part.
IRL I know of one guy (and his extended family) that have made a career out of scamming worldwide...and made literally millions from the poor, old and even terminally ill. His scams are so well worked out he can repeat them even on the people he already conned.

Cons usually don't work without your active involvement, it's true that it's difficult to con an honest man. Greed or apathy on the marks part usually get them scammed...and this thread being here to inform of scams old and new will work if people can be bothered to read and contribute to it and aren't apathetic.

A small but annoying scam that I fell for ...lending someone a basic cheap item. Repairing my implant a guy says "I wish I could use my focus chip, my implant is broken though and I can't afford the tool to get it out and put it back, I only sweat and it's hard without focus " so feeling sorry and a little selfish waving the tool in his face I offer to let him use it before I feed it back to the tt. What's 4 ped when you had a little luck I thought? Of course he's sweetness and "ty ty ty" and then jumps into the TP with it never to be seen again.

Nice idea for a thread, I suggest we bold the scams to make them stand out more though? Every little helps

t

 

[LarsMac]

First let me start by saying I agree that scammers suck and it would be nice if they did not exist. But...
1- you don't own it, and the person who takes it also after taking still does not own it. Everything is MA's and since it is all nothing more than a bunch of lines of code, it can never be removed from game, therefore, never stolen. MA still has possession of their items.
...

Well you DO retain the dollar equivalent of the ped value of your account. So, when someone takes you virtual items, they have stolen you ped/dollars.
That is real theft.

In most scams we are talking 10, 20, maybe 100 USD, but in a few cases I have heard of a couple of hundred USD, and once around 1K USD.

Most of this is petty theft in real world, so difficult to get international law enforcement very excited, but it is still theft, and still unacceptable.

 

[Pepper]

Most of this is petty theft in real world, so difficult to get international law enforcement very excited, but it is still theft, and still unacceptable.

That's true, and we seem to forget that sometimes when trades turn in to regular fights in the chat, over literary 10 cents...
But it's still theft nevertheless,as you said.
I think Timmers says something really important here:

[...] They prey on good faith and trust and warp it and degrade it for us all until we can't afford to trust anyone. That is the saddest part.

I'd rather lose 1000$ than the faith in someone I trusted. That theft of confidence and all that it brings in destruction of feelings and general mistrust, is a lot worse than the actual money loss. I'm playing this game foremost because I think it's fun. I want it to be funny, not a place where I constantly have to be on my guard against complete assholes and thieves. It's enough of them in the real world to deal with.

Keep the posts comming! Please add your experiences of scams and scammers to the thread so that we atleast can say we did this to stop the thieves.

( +reps will be handed out as soon as I'm allowed to again )

 

[Midori Fairlona]

Pilot Scam

Some people who claim to be pilots are not. They take you to a hangar and promise to take you for a flight, but they ask you for payment before they allow you onto the ship. Once you have paid, they disappear and leave you standing alone in an empty hangar.

To avoid this, tell the pilot that you will only pay them once you are aboard the ship. Only the pilot can grant you access to the ship, so if you are able to board then you know that the pilot is genuine.

Land Area Shed Scam

There are some Outback Land Area Shed deeds in circulation that people try to sell you as the real land area. The sheds are the small buildings found on the outback land areas that can be used to store items or place a shopkeeper (like an apartment). Remember, to access the land management functions and collect taxes, you need the Land Area deed, not the Land Area Shed deed.

Don't get caught out by paying hundreds of thousands of PED for a small house.

 

[CBB]

the threadowner should keep editing his first post with all the things mentioned!!

1. armor upgrade/paint
2. LA shed sale
3. drop items on floor trade
4. give me a ESI, i will fill it for u
5. i know a bug with a shopkeeper , give me 5 ped i ll show u
6. i will buy your avatar, give me the id and pw so i can check stats
7. i got a frend who likes to buy your "good item" can he see it. oh wait thats not my frend his account got hacked!!!!
8. can i have your empty old ava account ? (often cc stil attached and active!)
9. give me your peds i ll pay 120% intrest by investing
10. buy my 15 armor parts : calc price, supposed crash, same trade (only few female armor parts in it now !!) , fuckers did that too me


tips:

1. is the deal too good to be true, it probalby is
2. never give your id and pw, NEVER!!
3. get a goldcard, its 200 ped, your ava is worth loads more!
4. a online frend is always a stranger
5. not sure about something? then dont, or ask a soc mate or mentor
6. imp mk II s dont excist, find one tt it with me !!!



greetz CBB

 

[Rowdoc]

another trade scam is not putting everything in the trade window or removing their item at the right time, you click agree and their item is not in.
check all traded items carefully before you click Accept!

Yes, always double check items listed in blue box before hit confirm again. I have them try it on a couple of times, once a scammer add 2 stacks of muscle oil (1k + 1K) in trade window , remove one stack before hitting confirm.....so at first glance the muscle oils was still there !! only would I have realised ,as it wasn't just muscle oil I was trading

 

[Superhal]

LOTTERY
20 PED PER TICKET
WINNER TAKE ALL
-=THIS IS NOT A SCAM=-
LOTTERY
20 PED PER TICKET
WINNER TAKE ALL
-=THIS IS NOT A SCAM=-
LOTTERY
20 PED PER TICKET
WINNER TAKE ALL
-=THIS IS NOT A SCAM=-
*spam spam spam*

 

[Rowdoc]

Ripping off the naive

I mild scam this one, it was happening the RL friend as logged & he asked me about.
Noob (OJ straight off the ship) is approached at arrrivals, told that he could get cheaper items ( on 'black market' ) / below market prices. He is told that not really legal !! wink wink. But they are only available at the certain location ( in this case in was a House at Raven Valley). He asks questions to establish how the noob knows ..or more to the point how they don't know.
He say you get 100ped armours for only 75 ped, he promises lot stuff at bargin prices ( but never specific because you wait & see what is in stock when you get there) . Scammer then offers to help get you to the location for a small donation 5-10 ped or some sweat .

Basically, it appears the scammer has managed the hook up with TP run ( from a know society ) & was basically get noobs to pay for the TP run by the donation & /or inflated prices( pre- market price chart on items).
My friend left the team once I tipped him off, but they run off with 5-6 other noobs in tow ( who did listen to the warnings I relayed)
This one is borderline scam like most are , trading with someone at inflated prices is against the EULA, it doesn't show that are ppl out ther who will fleece you by lying directly to you.

The giveaway was when I told my friend ask about what armours were cheaps were & how much...... he reply " you know ? the good starting armour that everyone wants normally goes like 120 ped ... <he wait , when no answer he continues > you know the 'Globe' stuff, I can it for like 80 maybe even 75 ped. Obviously, try to figure how much the noob know & how much he can poosibly scam from him !!

 

[Yquem]

The Mentor scam

I have often been asked to be a mentor for a "new player" often at TI castle.

I always do accept to do a mentor session to them. After I then tell them that you will not get any gifts from me they have kicked you as a mentor before you can say bye.

Tips
Accept to be mentor - and if you think you will be nice to give gifts wait until they have show some progress (= cant kick you as a mentor). Scammers will never be that long.

 

[minsten]

i would also like to ad to the trade scam wich happenend to me. basicly the same but what this scammer did before taking away peds and accept she said she lagged alot and cancel trade like 4-5 times. by that time i was more taken by the lagg and just getting the deal done then check if the peds where there. i thought i saw the peds but guess the person got me, and hopefully i wont fall for it again.

Second we had as a soc. where a person in soc ask for about everything from armor, guns peds ect till next monday till she deposit. she wasnt bran new to the soc either so a bit of a thrust scam going on there to. but anyway she got two people with the deposit thing and she never did and by now she got another soc the same way.

PS: we tried warning the soc she joined but couldnt find them.......