Should EU players be allowed to compete on Mayhem with multiple avatars?

[Msturlese]

many good ideas.. maybe some developer reads and takes some suggestion

and there is also a problem of "legit" renting business or friendship
my GF or Kid has a small account.. wants to kill big bad robots... can i say nope i dont led you my imba gears?
as gamers we already have a miserable private life... lets not make it worse for paranoids

 

[Deleted member 58836]

personally i would introduce a "global player quest" ... some special "eff card" to
be delivered to a specific NPC and as it receive 1 (or 10 or 1000) of those on the
same weapon tag that one would increase for all players 0.1 EFF ... a common goal...
are we not here to fight robots? make an event to make existing weapons stronger
after adjust at ithaca make them Imp, MOd and perfected.... so we can upgrade what
we have to get more dps (more ammo more decay more moeny for ma)
and use some amterials to upgrada (a fresh life for crafters and hunters)

we all want more power, more eff more dpp..... jsut give us quests to do it
i think many of us are ready to kill 100.000 mob if that quest reward our weapon
with a 1% eff more.........

This is a great solution but isn't a direct fix. I'm not sure I completely understood but if what you're saying is a Co-Operative Quest that everyone can participate in to increase the efficiency of a distinct weapon would be awesome! I imagine this as everyone that owns a Maddox 3 could all work towards a quest to increase the Efficiency of not only THIER weapon but the Efficiency of ALL Maddox 3 weapons. How would that work? Say it takes 50k upgrade tokens to increase the EFF 1%, anyone could submit tokens to get to this point and anyone owning a Maddox 3 would see the improvements. The Incentive is that you own the weapon and wan to see it boosted so you can contribute or you can do all the work and see the improvements yourself and provide it to everyone else. Perhaps this could be Society based and we could have some Society Quests that we can complete to get Society Bound gear which this co-op upgrade mission could be used for. Maybe like a Society Trade Terminal that we can purchase special unlocked Society Gear.. I know.. tangent but I think it was worth?

4) Scale rewards based on category so players who are capable of competing at higher categories are not incentivized to compete in lower categories. Or, alternatively make each category a specific PM token for a weapon of that level / DPS caliber, so that cat 2 winners aren't able to redeem an LP-100.

This is a bad idea and how you create further difficulties for those trying to level up to ever be able to compete with those at the top. In essence, if I'm #1 Mayhem competitor, I'd always have the best gear and never be beat because the system rewards me with better gear than everyone else each time. There's nothing wrong with a Cat 2 winners saving their tokens to buy a LP-100 weapon which they can sell to someone who can use it for a return on the investment they made becoming a Mayhem Category Winner. EDIT: You have the option to sell skills to remain at that level to make it easier to collect tokens to get these weapons and if PED is your goal, this gets you PED, if skills are your goal to use the weap, then you can buy back or grind back the skills later on to use the gear.

 

[Bones]

Make all tokens tradeable

 

[WoenK]

I didn't say these controls were meant to be impossible to bypass. They just put more steps in place to catch nefarious activity, nor did I claim implementing the necessary controls / solutions would be easy.

Also, I mean limiting bandwidth to purposely desync from the game during Survival Mayhem to escape packs of mobs and avoid dying. However you achieve that is up to you I suppose.


Regards,
VH

Those controls are easy to bypass, that is the problem. Might have been an annoyance two decades ago, automation nowadays makes it just one simple step
As for bandwidth limiter.... cheapest way would probably be to set the client to 56k ?
Or do you mean those spedd-hacks some have been using for over a decade (just disturbing the connections of them and anyone in the area)?
I order to force desync I suppose it would really take a fine tuned tool, none that I would know of to be able to compensate for teh traffic routing towards MA servers. I often had a fine failover to my second connection wihtout almost any hitch and fallback again once it was re-established.

As I said...really absolutely not easy to find any cheaters or distinguish them from normal users.

 

[Msturlese]

so lets summarizee some great ideas:
1, Tokend tradeable, yes thisis deifnitely a MU question, as we said after an initial spike P token would stabilize. they are already (see my post) implicitly priced at 10.00 Ped each.. that is some premium above the cost to win a mayhem. some toklens u grind, some u buy, case closed, MA cash in anyways.
2. lock IP or MAc (you can tunnel , btypass, camo or whatever, unrealistinc and useless)
3. cooperative quests to improve weapon efficiency to revamp "old glories" and bring them to the cap (maybe 94.5% cap) with rewards based on kills (there is a system for progress of quest with a progressbar it could be activated fore the wielded weapon, every time it "ranks" get a wepon benefit. that would take Ranting apart from game, all ppl can see improvemetn brought by themselves and by otehr owners.
4. lock items ?= seems mroe bad than good, legit couples can probably not afford 2x top tier sets, but a GF that want some fun with good gears can borrow and shot (or some lending services can offer items for some hours or days)

a personal coimment... if a cat1 wants to increase srivival, jsut weat perseus, get a level 5 healing chip, a bunch of medistin and some high tier armatrix gun.... and yes it will cost priobably 5k or more but if u wanna win........ u have to pay. that is the spirit of mayhem, that is the spirit of RCE...... bigger wallet matters....

in all teh above i miss one information.... who said that killing for boxes and drop lead to profit? we could make a poll....

 

[Deleted member 58836]

Make all tokens tradeable

I know you know and I believe I know but we might not all know. Since you know, can you let us know, what you know?

Give us the breakdown on how tradeable token improve the situation

 

[Naomi]

IP would not mean absolutely nothing. Use a VPN and you have another IP. Most people have dynamic IPs so simply disconnect your router and get a new one.

That is quite doable indeed, but it would raise latencies and fck up your top gameplay

 

[Mega]

If it was going to happen, it would have happened years ago.

Therefore, it wont happen.

 

[WoenK]

That is quite doable indeed, but it would raise latencies and fck up your top gameplay

Actually, depending on your VPN, one can improve the latency...and again...what is a "high" latency ?
Over my cable net provider I have a high latency, going over my low badwidth DSL I can get around 10ms till MAs servers....I can put a VPn within that and probaly lose 1-2ms...which is still way way better than the thing I get over my high bandwidth cable connection.
I could bypass quite a few hops on that high latency cable width a VPN to the right place. No real magic, just take the shortest route.

 

[Alainax]

Conflicted on this one. As someone who games side by side with another EU avatar, the idea of only one of us being allowed to compete seems ridiculous. Although it is clear there is a big issue with alt accounts atm. Reading the suggestions with interest

 

[Naomi]

Conflicted on this one. As someone who games side by side with another EU avatar, the idea of only one of us being allowed to compete seems ridiculous. Although it is clear there is a big issue with alt accounts atm. Reading the suggestions with interest

You are two real people, with their own gear, both playing. That should NEVER be a problem.

The problem lays with
- 1 person using 1 set of gear on multiple avatars
- 1 person using multiple avatars (possibly with different gear)
to obtain multiple places in mayhem.

 

[Granny Rowan]

Use of IP as form of control is totally unworkable.
Halls of residence, House shares, some apartment blocks where internet is a provided service, even hotels, will have a common IP for multiple persons (totally unrelated in RL).
Also if you lock the account to the IP for the duration of mayhem what about those that travel for work, truckers, sales people, all the way up to the boardroom, we may not be at same address for 7 days let alone 3 weeks. On one occasion I played EU in my Hotel in Scotland before work meetings there, later in the day I played while travelling the length of England in a High Speed Train, by teatime I was home and logged in. Next morning at Mothers 70 miles away, and I am just one player of thousands who lead complicated lives

As I don't do mayhem myself I really have no axe to grind, but take care what you wish for. If MA grab onto this idea they may not think it through carefully enough, and then we have a major disaster. Just who in your house will get to keep their account, let alone just enter a competition within the game.

I was introduced to the game by my son when he was a teen, we regularly had 4 or 5 late teen/twenties in the house playing as well as myself. It was great playing in team in game and in same room in RL. You cannot ever be sure who is at a keyboard, we have to accept that some will always bend the rules without threatening legitimate activities of friends and families who play EU together

Yes cheating is to be despised, but don't risk screwing over hundreds if not thousands of legitimate players

 

[jetsina]

I've said before that having a rule which is not enforced is bad for those who want to play by the rules. The one avatar rule is such a rule. However, allowing any number of avatars may not be good for various reasons either. Some are especially related to MA and EU, such as people who would swap avatars to catch waves here and there etc. Still, at least it would be a relatively fair situation - just that MA would have to get to grips with the underlying causes of people logging off and on with different avatars repeatedly.
Also, the concept of distance and space would probably be dealt a blow, although avatars may travel around more than now on one-off trips if journeys don't have to be there AND back so much with just the one avatar.
Personally, I believe a 'family' of a main and two or three sub-units should be allowed per person with linked names/surname? or so. Whether or not subunits could also take part in events would be for MA to decide, but they could restrict weap swaps etc as suggested here too...

 

[Deleted member 58836]

Personally, I believe a 'family' of a main and two or three sub-units should be allowed per person with linked names/surname? or so. Whether or not subunits could also take part in events would be for MA to decide, but they could restrict weap swaps etc as suggested here too...

Maybe make the sub-avatar dependent on the main avatar for 18 years then it becomes it's own responsible main avatar that can have subs.

 

[Granny Rowan]

I've said before that having a rule which is not enforced is bad for those who want to play by the rules. The one avatar rule is such a rule. However, allowing any number of avatars may not be good for various reasons either. Some are especially related to MA and EU, such as people who would swap avatars to catch waves here and there etc. Still, at least it would be a relatively fair situation - just that MA would have to get to grips with the underlying causes of people logging off and on with different avatars repeatedly.
Also, the concept of distance and space would probably be dealt a blow, although avatars may travel around more than now on one-off trips if journeys don't have to be there AND back so much with just the one avatar.
Personally, I believe a 'family' of a main and two or three sub-units should be allowed per person with linked names/surname? or so. Whether or not subunits could also take part in events would be for MA to decide, but they could restrict weap swaps etc as suggested here too...

Having a rule that is unenforceable means the rule should be reconsidered and other options sought. Otherwise any heavy handedness risks punishing the wrong people, and driving players away from the game. From husbands and wives that play (yeh they do really, not just alts) to families with late teen/young adult children still at home or visiting, why should the majority of legitimate players be restricted in how and when they play because of the dishonesty of others ?

 

[Timp44]

It's not about not letting people play at all, just not let multiple people compete from same house, as we can't be certain who is behind the keyboard, especially with survival competition.

So you don't care if multiple people from the same house are playing as long as it's not the same person spamming "F" on both accounts? I guess this seems a bit weird to me, why if they are legitimate accounts would people do that to begin with and not just enjoy the game? I mean if you had a great score twice that would be really something but I think a lot of people run mayhems multiple times to better there scores already don't they? I could not in any circumstance sit here for 30-40-50+hours and go again and again. I know some do but that just wouldn't work for me with everything outside EU

 

[MrFatBoy]

how about stopping all the stupid events that are just basically handouts to those that can cheat to win most of the time? as we all now know was not just jealous accusations by those that did not win.

maybe go back to the less common and more fun events like we used to have way back when your screen was full of green dots. i am talking events like back in 2008-2009, 2010. Sure Kill stealing was rampant but by now they can fix some of those issues.

I know events are fun for a lot of people but its basically just trying to loot an item to profit off of and they can put items in normal non event loot like it used to be. just spread it out a bit maybe let more items drop.

Maybe let people loot some nice stuff at their level because even back then it was pretty much any item i need or could use i could not loot as they dropped from to high a level of mob.

and yes yes i know, the economy, people been here for 15 years, my investments in gear etc... but if events are so rampantly abused its just hurting everyone so change it.

 

[MrFatBoy]

no chance to restrict IP

i am not if this was IP banning but way back when they blocked an entire country due to so many cheaters or exploiters coming from there (if i recall right) not sure exactly what the reason was but pretty sure it was about exploiting.

i dont want to say the name as it was a long time ago, but the country name starts with R and ends in omania

 

[PkmX]

Or just make everyone use standardized gear and skills in Mayhem instances so winning would not be based on getting access to selected weapons, and 90% of the player base would actually have a reason to compete. This also gets rid of problem people unable to chip out for their mayhem category. The concept already existed in battle sim but it is shame they abandoned the idea.

But this will shaft all owners of mayhem-specific gears so it is not like it will happen.

 

[Bones]

I know you know and I believe I know but we might not all know. Since you know, can you let us know, what you know?

Give us the breakdown on how tradeable token improve the situation

Well since you know , or you believe you know or want others to know , let me know what you know or think you know and I will tell you if what you think you know or actually know is what i think I know or actually know.

Make tokens tradeable.

 

[allarom]

so in conclusion for OP (Should EU players be allowed to compete on Mayhem with multiple avatars?)

1. make tokens tradable to encourage to have even more multiple avatars and wipe items from the vendor even faster
2. lock IP/MAC just to fuck up everyone who shares the flat, pc, or just the internet network
3. lock items to make the event even more unfair by taking away the ability to have the best DPS by borrowing items or just fuck the ppl so they cannot sell/trade the items during the mayhem when the prices are the best

this thread is fully packed with the stupidest ideas I have ever seen in one thread. why break the system even more? I have competed in a lot of mayhems and can ensure that there is nothing else needed than dedication, hard work, and luck- basically essentials to survive in real life as well. if you are not willing to tier up some L items in advance nor willing to keep pushing to be the best, please do not compete nor whine about events that are meant for the best

MA does not encourage multiple avatars and is investigating this in each event, but there are always ways to exploit everything- exploits are the real problem when it comes to events like this

 

[jetsina]

Having a rule that is unenforceable means the rule should be reconsidered and other options sought.

Yes, I wrote unenforced, but you are right here; it is also practically unenforceable as things stand, so needs changing. Unfortunately it is one of many things that need changing, so the chances aren't great, especially as core features such as dailies might need to be altered. However, it would also result in an influx of 'noobly skilled' avatars with low looter etc skills, which MA must surely like the sound of, as well as slowing progress of ubers (also slowing the need for MA to develop highest-end content) if ubers put any effort into fresh avatars.
Would I support an 'offspring' of mine in cat1 with noobish skills? I don't know, but it should be allowed, yes

 

[John B Knight]

3. lock items to make the event even more unfair by taking away the ability to have the best DPS by borrowing items or just fuck the ppl so they cannot sell/trade the items during the mayhem when the prices are the best

Locking items to be only used by one participant for a certain timeframe, doesnt block items to be rented it only blocks them to be rented to too many people round the clock - the timeframe could be balanced by mindark to allow an item to reenter mayhem for someone else as well if it was deemed that 2 or even 3 people using toplvl gear would still be fair based on the eventrules to other competitors.
Players who have build a stock of rental gear could still rent it out for events.
But more and different gear would be required to compete to win, if the number of people who could enter it to compete was restricted.

 

[Bones]

1. make tokens tradable to encourage to have even more multiple avatars and wipe items from the vendor even faster

Allowing tokens to be free for trade , is completely different than managing a rule created to hold only one account in this game.
It is also different but not totally disassociated with managing the level of items within the token vendor.

The reason I argue for tokens to be tradeable , is within the spirit of a free and open economy which has never had the opportunity to flourish without the fat finger of multiple balance managers.

Unlock all items within the game to be traded , with the exception of those that are given with no cost to the player , leaving this option of free items to the PP which is issuing the items , at their own cost.

For Mindark to be able to police the multiple account rule , they must first abide by the rules of the market economy , and have that as a base variable.

 

[Xen]

You can't limit by ip because a lot of people legitimately have more than one person in their household playing.

And yes, please lock items so we don't have single items/sets winning multiple positions/categories.

 

[WoenK]

i am not if this was IP banning but way back when they blocked an entire country due to so many cheaters or exploiters coming from there (if i recall right) not sure exactly what the reason was but pretty sure it was about exploiting.

i dont want to say the name as it was a long time ago, but the country name starts with R and ends in omania

As far as I remember it was some credit card thefts and if I remember correctly, you do not see those Avas anymore.
So yes, maybe a lot of IPs coming out of that country got banned and most of them probably out of Internet Cafes those criminals were using or simply someone techsavy enough to use a VPN to come out in that country , but that was over a decade ago.
Nowadays you can not tell from which country someone comes, except maybe China (which firewall AFAIK does not allow wthe usage of VPN), and the usage is a absolutely ridiculesly easy.

If one really wanted an halfway Mayhem it would need have absolutely everything equal, not just gear. Same skills and attributes, no rings and buffs.
I mean, is it fair that I dropped into Cat8 with above lvl80 in dmg only able to use a measily lvl 75 rifle ?
If the "ubers" win again most will probably complain once more that MA simply favours them and others will complain that it is way too much luck based.

Some people seem to forget how the old ones were. Unless you were in one of the top societies and a really good coordinated team you had no chance in hell.
In the current system everyone has a chance at least, might be costy but Mayhem was allways costy to really compete. Now at least one can participate and get a few things in return (although I thought the diplomas were really a nice touch, got 3 all in all till they stopped that).

All in all...do not wish for changes in things that are halfway working, the next change could wll be something that will piss off a lot of people and have them quit.
And MA has a track record in changing things that only a few were complaing about and thus pissing of way more.

 

[Kerham]

Drop mayhems alltogether. Is seriously too much hassle, just look at the yog f'up or how much controversy there was about resetting your score.

What exactly advantage has MA from Mayhem? Increased activity and introducing boxes.

Just put them in the normal loot ffs. Come up with some funky temporary missions maybe and that's all. Add in some themed shares with nicely done custom mobs, make those town invasions fun and basta.

Re cheaters, they will always be. The way to fight them is to make cheating redundant. Is your main ava a big ass BB hunter? Then for sure you won't want to waste your time on argo young. From this point (and from this point alone :s) FEN was a very good strategy. Repeat it, on tiers. Make boxes drop more than one, per tier of hp, such as to be a good return to keep up with your skill level. Maybe introduce different boxes, like premium ones dropping from super tough mobs, in which you put a special carrot which gets in your arse when you login. There, bam, perfect game.

And yeah, put those fancy weapons where they belong; in the godam loot.

(OT: played alot EU with my former wife and our team hunts were some of the best moments I had in this game, I still treasure the memories. Big fat NO to any kind of regulation which is more prone to hurt legit players than cheaters.)

 

[Slyk]

I can think of at least 2 very obvious and well known / recognizable people that compete in Cat 10 and Cat 6/7 that consistently win top places in mayhem and tokens from both. Is it worthwhile? Yes, why? because they don't have to spend the time or money in their own category to learn all the intricacies of how to win in Survival/Defense/Assault mayhem. Also, double box farm running on 2 computers.

It is definitely not a waste of time to someone who knows how to set it up correctly. and fully takes advantage of the system.

I have no doubt that these particular players have accounts fully registered to their wives or girlfriends and could provide ID to show so but, I also have no doubt that the person playing to win mayhem is the same person that plays the main account. Maybe they'll even have the gumption to chime in here, but I doubt it.

Don't know how you can fix it, would love to see it stopped but I just don't think it's enforceable under the current rules.

That post is a load of Junk, Man.