Should FPC|MA change society terminals so that they kick out avatars that no longer exist?

[mastermesh]

Should FPC|MA change society terminals so that it kicks out avatars that no longer exist? If an avatar is banned, or removed from the game due to inactivity for a very long period of time, should the society terminal automatically remove the avatar in question from the society list and/or disband the entire society once the avatar in question is removed from the game if the avatar in question was the society founder? The society could still be put back together by existing members if they chose to recreate it, with a new society created date, etc... just not leave the old founder listed if the old founder no longer exists...

To me it seems rather silly to leave the banned or inactive avatars that no longer exist in the society terminal, especially since it's falsely advertising that the individual in question that no longer exists still exists and/or gives some older societies that have been around a long time some sort of "bragging rights" about how long they've been around that they should not be entitled too really... since their leader is no longer there... It's sort of similar to the problem I have with estate terminals leaving the old estate owners listed as the current owner until the new owner decides to actually claim the place, if they ever do decide to claim it at all... It's sort of falsely advertising that this great and mighty society founder person is still around... when they just might not be really...
=========================
Hate to do this, as it's almost stabbing friends in the back, but this multiple avatar/ethics issue is a big deal... and really makes me pretty mad when I think about it and how unfair and unbalanced the entire system is.

Support - please reread support ticket 182226 which was submitted in March, which you did absolutely nothing about.

Since you purchased the entropiaforum database, all the information described in that ticket is accessible to you, or should be... I'm very surprised you have done nothing about this blatent abuse of multiple avatars that was done to create the largest group of societies in game by a power hungry egomanic as some would describe him. Sorry to post this in public forum, but it is something you folks should take seriously, and that anyone seriously reading about this game should know about, or at least read about a little through this post and come to their own conclusions, as there is a lot under the surface that makes this game somewhat unfair and unbalanced even though it appears different on the surface to the n00b just starting.


excerpt from that ticket, which is a quote from an entropiaforum subforum by someone who it should be easy to know who it is (not me)..

All NBK societies were still run by me through my different avatars. (check the founder of the NBK Legion in the society terminal)
check the founder of the NBK Legion in the society terminal)

another excert (again this is not about me personally but someone involved with the society historically):

I ended up mailing him my gold card, making him the leader, and giving him full access to my account.

The response from support:

Hi,
Thank you very much for the detailed information. However, we are unsure of what exactly do you want us to do with it. Please let us know if there's something we can do to help you.
Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

...
and later I sent a reply that among other things asked

I guess my question then is... if ____(delted avatar name from quote)___ was a second avatar in 2005, and he is still listed in the Society info screens for NBK Legion - does that make the entire society invalid?

...
and later in reply...

Hi,
We are sorry if our previous reply sounded like we didn't know what to do with multiple accounts, because that is not the case, we do have strict policies for this kind if issues and it is clearly stated on the EULA that you are only allowed to own one active avatar/account.
What we meant by the previous reply is, that the case you submitted before did not clearly state what you were reporting or why. Nevertheless, please rest assured that we have further investigated your report and can say that this is not a case of multiple accounts, as you can see the information you submitted is very old and many things have happened since then.
We hope you have a great time in Entropia Universe!
Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

If this does get me kicked out of a society, so be it. Just pointing out that skeletons in closet should be cleaned, and with the soc. terminal left as it is showing old "founders" that may have been created in bad ways, it's not too clean... How much did support do? Go check the soc. terminals if you want. Have not done that in a while myself... They may have changed it, but may not have yet. (didn't change it last time I looked at terminal over the weekend - look at the "founder" of each NBK society that comes up when you search for NBK - look closely at the names... see some similarities?)

Regardless, this just shows you how political games can be used or were in the past to create the societal structures that exist now... so the entire society is flawed in some major ways as the biggest group of invidividuals in game that are under an umbrella society may have been put under that umbrella in some no-too-fair ways that involved multiple avatars, shared avatars, and other issues...

major issues that make this game highly unfair for individual avatars on many various levels... major issues that make inter-society competitions highly unfair and unbalanced... many many many problems that support completely ignores... Marco has said that all avatars are equal. Stuff like this and the multiple avatars that Neverdie and company have shows that's obviously not the case.
=========================

---edit---
not that it'll do much good I created a new support ticket about this matter due to the fact that the multiple avatar issues are big ones that seem to be everywhere you look in game on some levels... much discussion about a few specific cases is over at https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?203235-Why-is-this-allowed

==edit==
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-Rogue-General&p=618013&viewfull=1#post618013

who operates my old avatar

 

[Wed]

yes they should

Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Killahbee]

yes they should

Posted via Mobile Device

I second that

 

[soLO 3000]

well, no. Im sure we are more than capable at governing ourselves, MA has given us the tools, we must use them appropriately.

If the leader of a soc is inactive, the remaining members may vote and elect a new leader, demote the old one then kick him themselves, MA doesnt need to be involved

If an inactive soc has an inctive leader then, how does that affect you or me?

 

[TommyDaGreat]

Introduce a monthly soc fee just like with apartments.

10 peds per member.


(Just kidding... hehehe...)

 

[Wed]

well, no. Im sure we are more than capable at governing ourselves, MA has given us the tools, we must use them appropriately.

If the leader of a soc is inactive, the remaining members may vote and elect a knew leader, demote the old one then kick him themselves, MA doesnt need to be involved

If an inactive soc has an inctive leader then, how does that affect you or me?

im pretty sure the top biggest soc are all inactive players. imo they should be removed once the majority of the members are deleted. otherwise they should just remove that list since it have no purpos atm.

Posted via Mobile Device

 

[mastermesh]

If the leader of a soc is inactive, the remaining members may vote and elect a new leader, demote the old one then kick him themselves, MA doesnt need to be involved

True... but we can't edit the "founder" listed... so we don't have total control over everything in the society terminal once a society is created... at least not yet.

 

[jod]

True... but we can't edit the "founder" listed... so we don't have total control over everything in the society terminal once a society is created... at least not yet.

Well if the society still exists it doesn't matter if the founder is active/leader/deleted/banned or anything as he will always be the founder no matter what state the soc is in now as long as someone is still active enough to keep the soc alive.

Ofcourse if the entire soc has passed the date by which their accounts cannot be re-activated then yeah delete the soc.

 

[Futurama]

and/or disband the entire society once the avatar in question is removed from the game if the avatar in question was the society founder?

Well no, there are quite a few old socs with the same time created still here so even if the founder no longer plays his account is terminated, the soc he created (still active and has someone else as a leader) shoudn`t be disbaned for sure and his name should remain as the founder of the soc for the poeple to remember.

 

[Pirx Danford]

Definitely No!

What I would love to see instead would be offline messaging to the email account becoming available to the soc leader and that I as soc leader could at least get a rough display of the last log in time (Last logged in: Today, Yesterday, Some days ago, More than a week ago, More than a month ago, Avatar is deleted).

 

[soLO 3000]

True... but we can't edit the "founder" listed... so we don't have total control over everything in the society terminal once a society is created... at least not yet.

yes but isnt that the whole purpose/accolade of being the "founder"....it shouldn't be editable at all, the founder is the founder, end of.

If a new founder is required then a new soc must be "founded"...

 

[Larkin]

yes but isnt that the whole purpose/accolade of being the "founder"....it shouldn't be editable at all, the founder is the founder, end of.

If a new founder is required then a new soc must be "founded"...

Yeah very true.

I vote no, I think we are capable of removing who we want from societies... we dont need MA to do it.

 

[Vin_Gunman_xXx]

Definitely No!

What I would love to see instead would be offline messaging to the email account becoming available to the soc leader and that I as soc leader could at least get a rough display of the last log in time (Last logged in: Today, Yesterday, Some days ago, More than a week ago, More than a month ago, Avatar is deleted).

Yes, this would be very helpful because different online times / timezones. If you are in a international soc like me its possible you never meet a mate in-game beside both are very active.

 

[davidgr1200]

Definitely No!

What I would love to see instead would be offline messaging to the email account becoming available to the soc leader and that I as soc leader could at least get a rough display of the last log in time (Last logged in: Today, Yesterday, Some days ago, More than a week ago, More than a month ago, Avatar is deleted).

I agree 100% with Jod and Pirx

 

[aia]

I'd like an easier change: After a certain time (say 6 months), avatars should get the "non voteable" status. That way, at least, a society doesn't risk getting stuck because of an inactive leader.

 

[Mischief]

Voted yes.

Reason of course being that some socs hang on to all members despite they have been inactive for a long time, years even.

There is a few more things that can be added to this topic but that will do for now.

 

[Magyar Republic]

Yes, and I really dont think this should even be debatable.

If the avatar has been removed from the game, then it no longer exists. Just like if a person is dead you no longer sit with them at the dinner table.

Keeping these names in the EU databases for societies means that on some level the characters still exist on the servers. Can we say database bloat? How about performance hit?

 

[Phil Surtees]

1. Yes, remove inactive players from societies. I think nostrups LA will revert to MA ownership this year, so if they do that, they should clean up soc rosters also (is nostrup in a soc,also? just wondering)
2. Don't hurt an active soc, just list the founder as inactive. The original founder of the NBK hasn't played in years, we would have poofed if it was enforced on founders (an active member has since re-founded it).

 

[Executor]

Deleted post.

 

[Droops]

Nope

When to long inactive i rather kick them myself
Part of our soc rules.

 

[thoreau]

How about deleting those societies where no player in the society has logged in for 6 months.

 

[lilac]

well, no. Im sure we are more than capable at governing ourselves, MA has given us the tools, we must use them appropriately.

If the leader of a soc is inactive, the remaining members may vote and elect a new leader, demote the old one then kick him themselves, MA doesnt need to be involved

If an inactive soc has an inctive leader then, how does that affect you or me?

I agree that auto kicking is a bad idea.

I can say that RoR has one military member who onlly gets a chance to log a couple times a year... to whatever extent logging in to see familiar faces IG adds to his enjoyment of his leave, I don't want to see that changed.

However, I can say that in the absence of too many soc "goals", the top lists do provide something for a soc to shoot for. Anyone who wanted to could take a week to recruit 200 one login wonders, and have a spot on the largest list for a few years.

My idea:

• Track "last login", and make the info accessible on the soc roster (this would help alot with managing a soc).
  
• Base toplists not on total members, but on amount of members logged within the past six months.

Does this sound like a good idea to anyone else?

 

[Alex Mart]

I'd like an easier change: After a certain time (say 6 months), avatars should get the "non voteable" status. That way, at least, a society doesn't risk getting stuck because of an inactive leader.

Great idea. Hope MA listen.

 

[xian]

Definitely No!

What I would love to see instead would be offline messaging to the email account becoming available to the soc leader and that I as soc leader could at least get a rough display of the last log in time (Last logged in: Today, Yesterday, Some days ago, More than a week ago, More than a month ago, Avatar is deleted).

I support this, would be nice for socs. Auto removal of society by system is something i do not care. Soc listings is part of calypso history.

 

[DanielleYourMom]

I have wished for them to do lot of things with the society terminal - I just never thought of this. I assume if someone is going to leave game, they will alert the proper channels in their society - so they would be able to do what they see fit with the avatar.

But if it's completely a null and void account, the person has closed it through FPC|Mindark and there is no chance of the avatar ever logging on again .. sure, why not have it removed by FPC|Mindark automatically. (would be nice to see some of those people in the HUGE socs that are 98% inactive be removed, to let some new socs on the biggest socs list. )

But, I would never, ever, EVER want it to be something based on time since the last login. We all know how many people end up coming back - months, or a year or 2 or ever more - after leaving .. all because they missed it.

So yes - if the person is requesting it closed and there is no turning back to ever logging on as that avatar. No, if it's based on time.

 

[jenny ferr]

Removing avatars who no longer exist (I mean the closed accounts, after the 600 or 700 days of inactivity), I can agree.

However, I don't really see the need, and I would prefer MA keeps on working on existing problems rather than changing something that works.

I would not agree that inactive avatars (not closed account) are kicked. There is no rule to force anybody playing everyday.

read above

My idea:

• Track "last login", and make the info accessible on the soc roster (this would help alot with managing a soc).
  
• Base toplists not on total members, but on amount of members logged within the past six months.

Does this sound like a good idea to anyone else?

This I like

 

[Gluepot]

True... but we can't edit the "founder" listed... so we don't have total control over everything in the society terminal once a society is created... at least not yet.

Original founder is a piece of history. I see no reason to say Abraham Lincoln never existed just because he's inactive now.

 

[blackhawk77g]

Yes

MA should be involved. Not everyone is online in all time zones. You may not be sure whos active. It should atomaticly kick permenetly banned avatars and avatars that dont exist. As for avatars who havent been on for a while, it should be the soc's deciding when to kick them. Maybe a setting for this?

 

[OuterGod]

What for? You're giving MA programmers yet another chance to code more bugs into the game. If they prepare the system you suggest, we will end up with automatic system removing existing avatars and leaving nonexistent/ dormant ones. That's the first thing.
The second is, that if they are not occupied with unimportant tasks like this one (well, maybe not unimportant but very far away from the beginning of "to do" list), maybe they will work on improving what is already ingame.
Third: what's the problem with not existing society founders? It's a bit of history anyway, worth leaving ingame. No harm is done through this. Why the fact of some names being still present in game is bothering you? As for not existing society leaders and members, remaining soc members have already all the tools they need to remove unactive avas from soc list. More even, they can remove founders as well, simply disbanding society and creating it anew.
So, once again: why do you want to burden MA programmers with doing something that players can do themselves anyway? And why do you want someone to decide for others?
Voted no, because all you suggest can be achieved within the existing system if someone wishes so. And if someone doesn't want, then it's really none of your concern.

 

[Neuromancer]

No

for the same reasons above. It should be the soc leader or soc human resources person who decides, not an auto delete after x many days. If the soc leader is inactive there are mechanisms in place to get a replacement.

Also "You were kicked from ABC soc by the soc terminal for inactivity" is an incredible insult to anyone returning after a year or more.