Should Space be Lootable PVP - Yes or No?

[Raffaele Meiers]

Look I play now EU for some time and I never was in the situation that I thought crap it's so boring I need to go and kill some other players just for fun.
I also never thought, hey I need some money lets strip some others of their hard earned loot.

I know I am not like all others, in fact every one is different but I bet even Pirates don’t like to be stripped of their possessing.

In real live their risk normally involves going to prison, here it should also involve some punishment and not only ammo and decay.

So it will be really tension and risky as they like it.

Only loot as much as they carry and if killed loosing the Ship, attached Weapons and Fuel to the loot pool of the Miners/Hunters (where the stackable came from). It will even boost the economy because they need a new ship and weapon so the crafting profession also a little boost.

Woud'nt that be nice?

PS: Some love Hunting and Mining others to Craft and then there are the ones who love to kill other Players and get their loot. In the old days you could easy avoid them by not go into a contaminated zone. Now if you want to travel you Have to go trough loot-able PvP so there should be some risk involved for the PK'ers too.

PPS: The loosing the ship idea is not new either, posted it already more than a year ago for the first time.

Could you please stop patronizing and talk about the issue instead? Thank you.

Have seen in other games how, by a popular demand, the most controversial and also most interesting features got removed or watered down. Once this is done, the same people who demanded this start complaining the game is too boring. And this time they're right.

"Equal loot principle" (eg: you can loot as much as you carry yourself). If i remember it right it was proposed first by dr3w, sth like a year ago? This is probably the most popular proposal for Space PvP ever. Glad u got the same idea.

 

[Neil Stockton]

Only loot as much as they carry and if killed loosing the Ship, attached Weapons and Fuel to the loot pool of the Miners/Hunters (where the stackable came from). It will even boost the economy because they need a new ship and weapon so the crafting profession also a little boost.

That may work in Eve where ships and equipment are essentially free in terms of RL money, but it would never work here. Just think about it for a moment... quads are over 100 ped. Would you be willing to lose 100 ped 3 or 4 times in 15 minutes just so you can leave a safe zone? Because you can be sure that pirates would shoot you down over and over again. At heart they are just griefers.

 

[Xavier_Jr]

In my opinion from the point of view of the owners of the planets ..an loteable space is very convenient for them ... from the point of view from an ordinary player should not be convenient. I mean this:

Owners of the planets needs people who can not out from their planets. With thats They do not need to invest anything to improve their planets or their loot in general. Additionally owners of planets can invest in privateers pirates trying to steal to players who gained something on their planets. (Objetive: retain some of money from their planets before players go away.)

Obvious for common players it will very convenient that the owners of differents planets must compete each to other developing their worlds trying to gain customers, and not only to be people trapped inside some planet by privateers. Pure logic and common sense.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

That may work in Eve where ships and equipment are essentially free in terms of RL money, but it would never work here. Just think about it for a moment... quads are over 100 ped. Would you be willing to lose 100 ped 3 or 4 times in 15 minutes just so you can leave a safe zone? Because you can be sure that pirates would shoot you down over and over again. At heart they are just griefers.

I did elaborate more on that more than a year ago and mentioned that the reputaion could be taken to solve that problem.

Bad Rep - you lose it
Good Rep - you keep it

Or ad a Pirate Flag - If you PK'ed and looted someone in the past 30 days you get that flag - after 30 days of not doing it you lose the flag

 

[Fifth]

... if you want to travel you Have to go trough loot-able PvP ...

A factual mistake.

1. You are summoned to MS, as long as you inside MS you in permanent non-PvP area.
2. The MS is docked at SS, inside the non-PvP area. So non-PvP both inside and outside MS.
3. You log off. Note, this procedure is officially provided and approved by MA.
4. MS travels through PvP space (where it could be shot down).
5. MS arrives to destination SS and enters the safe zone.
6. You log in, TP to SS, then TP down to the destination planet.

The whole route from starting planet to destination planet is 100% safe. You will never enter any PvP area.
In fact this is the same old Interplanetary TP feature, only disquised under different game mechanics and animations. Even the cost per use is similar (if u don't bother to wait for scheduled flights).

So, yeah, what you saying is an old mistake (if done unintentionally) or old lie (if u ignore the facts intentionally). Although it's old and repeated by many people, this doesn't make it any more true.


________________________________________________________________________________

Ironically, the MS logout feature has been the single most important reason for the Pirate Camp to criticize MA and claim the Space is unbalanced.
It seems MA didn't achieve anything, ppl simply ignore this feature and keep babbling about "forced to enter PvP". So, if i was MA, i would make pirates happy and remove it. They at least could appreciate the gift.

Well, then again those ppl who repeat those old lies aren't most likely traveling in Space themselves. Other people would get punished unfairly for their mistake. Hmm.. so that wouldn't work either.

How about shoveling their storage into their inventory and spawning them in Space near Caly SS, say, once a week? Without ability to die and revive iside SS, floating in open space until some pirate comes by, kills and loots em? For those ppl who have trouble figuring out what is "forced to enter PvP" and what isn't, those simple practical examples would be helpful.

You are lucky MA has more patience than me...

 

[John B Knight]

The whole route from starting planet to destination planet is 100% safe. You will never enter any PvP area, not for even a split second. In fact this is the old Interplanetary TP feature, only disquised under different animations. Even the cost per use is similar (if u order a VIP flight and don't bother to wait for scheduled flights).

Considering that Mindarks whole intend with lootable pvp in space was the separation of planet economies, they have left a loophole in game design which allows the above.
I think Mindark is the only game designer who ever managed to make people logout of their own game to have an advantage over people who stay in the game and they managed to keep this loophole for over 2 years now.

If i were running a game i would try hard to keep players ingame, at no point should being offline be better for a gamer then actually playing.

This is why i think Mindarks statement that they are looking into removing risk free ways of transport will cater towards that issue.

 

[SpikeBlack]

Preventing entry into space either through a call or by ship because you've too many items or too much weight would do far more than any PvP area to isolate planet economies.

As only stackables are lootable any one can carry weapons, armour and tools to sell on another planet, preventing this gives the crafter's a chance over imports.

 

[Kitch]

Only loot as much as they carry and if killed loosing the Ship, attached Weapons and Fuel to the loot pool of the Miners/Hunters (where the stackable came from). It will even boost the economy because they need a new ship and weapon so the crafting profession also a little boost.

Woud'nt that be nice?

I think that would kill pvp off entirely, no one (pirates included) would bother. You would have a stalemate like in non lootable pvp where people generally wont do anything.

It seems MA didn't achieve anything, ppl simply ignore this feature and keep babbling about "forced to enter PvP". So, if i was MA, i would make pirates happy and remove it. They at least could appreciate the gift.

I am also feeling some fairly bizarre rhetoric about the unavoidable dangers of space, if not just the fact you can safely travel in an MS(as it stands) but also with a little bit of planning and nouse you can get about in sleip with out getting hit!

In that way that planet is not real planet with local economy but just Caly play ground extension.
Appart big resources and development used just to force PVP playground for wery few who like to live in space and harash other players all can be reduced in professional wrap using traders/reselers against pirates and nothing to do with players who like advenure , exploration, travel or space hunt.
So there is no point in space PVP as it ony serve to harash normal players who use own vehicles to fly around be it to travel on other planet or to explore and hunt in space.

I like the first sentance and it is clearly true if yuo look around I think that is the ultimate question is how do you get the other planets economys kick started.
But you didnt mention the MS owners and the potential to create "jobs" and profit for people who choose a career ins space, which is definately a very large amount of players but could be many more if the idea is developed?

I do kinda think that the fact that only mining/hunting loot is lootable is a bit innefective though. It probably seemed a good idea at the time, perhaps to dissuade players upping and leaving. But with the MS/logoff that completely negates that restriciton so...

I dont think people saying "its bias in favour of pirates" are being totally fair, when you consider people can log off on ms.. Also pirates have to sit up there in dead space for many hours.. And be despised by everyone.. Could you do that?

IMO if yuo want to show ma a serious alternative, it has to be one that clearly, in black and white would benefit them in numbers more than this current sytem.

But the issue people have is anticipating how people will react to the new system(not many psychologists here??)

For instance, on cyrene, they have the hub - an all skills equal, pvp zone with reduced costs for ammo, where yuo can pick up tokens and trade for peds. So what do people do? do they fight tooth and nail for the ped spawning on the floor? or do they just stand there, being negative, and picking up the tokens to trade for peds so they can hunt for free??Never even pvp eachother??? You guess...

 

[valentin]

I voted yes and no... so long we have this bugs in the space so no but if space works like it should yes because i dont like to end up at a space station an forced to fly 20 minutes extra or even longer time because MA is lazy to fix the bugs.

P.S. Or do MA that I should use the bugs to my advantage that they themselves have told os that is forbidden.

 

[Dan59]

I like the first sentance and it is clearly true if yuo look around I think that is the ultimate question is how do you get the other planets economys kick started.
But you didnt mention the MS owners and the potential to create "jobs" and profit for people who choose a career ins space, which is definately a very large amount of players but could be many more if the idea is developed?

I do kinda think that the fact that only mining/hunting loot is lootable is a bit innefective though. It probably seemed a good idea at the time, perhaps to dissuade players upping and leaving. But with the MS/logoff that completely negates that restriciton so...

I dont think people saying "its bias in favour of pirates" are being totally fair, when you consider people can log off on ms.. Also pirates have to sit up there in dead space for many hours.. And be despised by everyone.. Could you do that?

IMO if yuo want to show ma a serious alternative, it has to be one that clearly, in black and white would benefit them in numbers more than this current sytem.

But the issue people have is anticipating how people will react to the new system(not many psychologists here??)

For instance, on cyrene, they have the hub - an all skills equal, pvp zone with reduced costs for ammo, where yuo can pick up tokens and trade for peds. So what do people do? do they fight tooth and nail for the ped spawning on the floor? or do they just stand there, being negative, and picking up the tokens to trade for peds so they can hunt for free??Never even pvp eachother??? You guess...

To mention MS - space as is now work great for all except normal players.
So reselers/traders, MS owners and their crew and pirates have something to earn except players wich can only chose wich side to pay.
Offcourse game now offer exciting opportunity for maszohists who now can by stackables from reselers directly or indirectly from auction and thake it in space as gift to pirates for being shhoted.
Yes it work as automatic extortion bussiness model wich seem like taxed travel and nothing else - if you dont want to pay MS service then you will be shooted by pirates.
Is disapointing that whole space evolve arround reselers/traders, MS owners and pirates.
No new proffessions, no new jobs, oportunity or gameplay.
As for more oportinities and jobs as well as value added we have seen many ideas on this forums, some also dangerous ones lol, let mention few..
MS shud get "summon" fix in mode that not ewry unsiklled retard can click on it endesly for free.
So give MF users job - they had skilled a lot to be able to use wormhole chip efficiently to summon ppl arround.
Also they pay decay on implant and chip and they burn 67800 ME on each click - so no way that wud one do it again and again just to harash ppl - wud be broke fast.
Give miners and traders more job - make ores needed to make up MS SI as consumables in some percent - so after ewy fight wud need add ores to get back on previous SI.
Disable MS revival terminal and let MF users do their job.
Make opportunity to explore space, to mine space rocks and asteroids, to hunt space mobs in peace.
New job for comunity info center news - space scaut - wich will look for fast flying comets, rocks able to destroy any space ship and for pirates in space and report to signed users for smal fee.
So anyone intended to trawel can know if robot war mothersip wich hunt specialy pirates and all players and vehicles with bad karma is finished to destroy and loot any pirate out there or need to wait more a litle.

To show some serious alternative hmm, hard. I wud work at MA at that time already.
Btw do we have in white and black their numbers and how empty space (just like desert on planet pvp areas) benefit them with current sytem?
And is not that but entire space dream fall down if MA wil stay on what we have - taxed travels and nothing else.
I exspected more than that.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

I dont even mind the Taxes, if there was a non toxic shot I could buy that would make me immune to attacks, or a teleport I could buy that would take me to another planet when I want to go play...I would go rthat route.

Currently the best option is taking a mother ship, and even that way the pirates still manage to harass and delay the flight on a regular basis.

There needs to be an option for people who are against pvp...I dont care if it costs ped, hell take the cost of the shot, and put it into generic loot for the pirates to claim when they kill non looters...

if the company did not allow other players the ability to kill me, I would still play, but as it stands now. even log out out on the mother ship, still causes significant interaction with killers and thieves as they slow down the flight or try to trick people.

In the mean time (anyone selling esi's cheap? I need a few)

 

[Fifth]

as it stands now. even log out out on the mother ship, still causes significant interaction with killers and thieves as they slow down the flight

Hello Kitty Show doesn't qualify as sufficiently non-aggressive either. What if a 5 year old daughter of some notorious PKer likes it!?

Actually, this whole world doesn't qualify to our high standards. Where's the closest monastery?

 

[Kitch]

still causes significant interaction with killers and thieves as they slow down the flight or try to trick people.

haha come on that is a tad ott

 

[Spawn]

Hello Kitty Show doesn't qualify as sufficiently non-aggressive either. What if a 5 year old daughter of some notorious PKer likes it!?

Actually, this whole world doesn't qualify to our high standards. Where's the closest monastery?

Weird analysis. Before space we always had choice. I'm with the smurf on this one.

 

[Fifth]

Before space we always had choice.

See, this game has too many choices, options, mechanisms, too much new stuff.
It's getting so complicated ppl can't keep up, don't know about all features, how they work or what choices they actually have.

Solution, 2 BIG buttons:

"START GAME"
&
"STOP GAME"
​

Then we all know what's the choices.

 

[Pyhä Antero]

Before space we always had choice.

Before space, everyone wanted to be a space piwate...

"Neverdie... made a million in space pirates.."
"Two secret ingredients. Don't quit..." "Believe..."
"...space pirate for a living"


P.S. What's the point of my post. Well, there's none, but remember everything you wish will punch you into a face, well let's say within 3-4 years... Also, I love the setting: jumpsuit gals, Neverdie, porn reporter...


Status quo vs. MindArk's revamp

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

...

In real live their risk normally involves going to prison, here it should also involve some punishment and not only ammo and decay.

So it will be really tension and risky as they like it.

Only loot as much as they carry and if killed loosing the Ship, attached Weapons and Fuel to the loot pool of the Miners/Hunters (where the stackable came from). It will even boost the economy because they need a new ship and weapon so the crafting profession also a little boost.

Woud'nt that be nice?

...

I think that would kill pvp off entirely, no one (pirates included) would bother. You would have a stalemate like in non lootable pvp where people generally wont do anything.

...

Ha, as I thought If they have too to risk something they dont want to do it.

They only want to risk some ammo and decay and may get the loot from their prey. But if they can only loot as much as they are prepared to risk you say they will not do that. So what you say is that we do not need non PvP only even out the playing field and the Pirates are gone - sounds also good to me

So it seams they fear even sticks as maybe some others would start to challenge them is they know they pirates have also something to loose if they want something to gain from their habit,

 

[Neil Stockton]

They only want to risk some ammo and decay and may get the loot from their prey. But if they can only loot as much as they are prepared to risk you say they will not do that. So what you say is that we do not need non PvP only even out the playing field and the Pirates are gone - sounds also good to me

You're right it wouldn't work to limit looted amount to what you're carrying. I think stackable insurance would work better, and your insurance rate would go up or down depending on how often you're looted... if you could make it so it's not exploitable.

 

[starcollector]

Before space, everyone wanted to be a space piwate...

LOL....
I fly in quad in space... Pirate kill's me ...Loots my common dung ....A long ride to be millionaire....

 

[Farmer Smurf]

I stopped listing to his bullshit when he said, the greatest aspiration a gamer has is to never die...


No shit? really tell me more how getting killed by pirates is fun? come on sell it make me believe it! how is death at the hands of others fun? never mind I don't believe, guess I will take option 2.

 

[Neil Stockton]

"Neverdie... made a million in space pirates.."

The "Space Pirates" video is great, i love the OJs, but what did ND mean when he said that space would have "5 million dollars" of treasure?

 

[Neil Stockton]

the greatest aspiration a gamer has is to never die...

... really tell me more how getting killed by pirates is fun?

Believe it or not you are proving the assertion ND made... that it is your goal to "never die" in the game than to be killed by another player.

His point about space PVP was that you can't really have the opportunity to escape dying unless there's something trying to kill you.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

His point about space PVP was that you can't really have the opportunity to escape dying unless there's something trying to kill you.

Sure I can, I haven't logged in for more that 5minutes in the last 3 weeks...and I haven't died or even been hassled by other people once....seems I found an escape.

 

[Dusk]

The "Space Pirates" video is great, i love the OJs, but what did ND mean when he said that space would have "5 million dollars" of treasure?

I think, from memory at the time, that that was an amount that ND had dragged out of MA concerning the amount of loot that could be changing hands in space. I don't think its an amount that MA are ploughing into the game.

 

[Nor Alien]

I think, from memory at the time, that that was an amount that ND had dragged out of MA concerning the amount of loot that could be changing hands in space. I don't think its an amount that MA are ploughing into the game.

And I'll add that iirc, MA wasn't to happy about his "leak" about space. I'm not 100% sure about the full details, but I believe space and the fact it is PVP lootable was in the works a long time ago.

 

[Dusk]

Remember this?

And check out the due date, lol. Only just under three years late!

 

[Pyhä Antero]

Remember this?

Awesome poster. If there was more asteroids/moons where you could mine for rare minerals, space pirateism could be quite awesome. Maybe it's too EVE for some.

Edit: Pirate flag... why it is not implemented yet?

 

[starcollector]

LOL ..... Let take example Next Island....if planet specific item are TT food ...why should I bother to take them in space wen I can use TT there... ....and about space mining and hunting hmmm 50 milions Ped in lootpool ....do you SEE them....???!!!!

They are no interplanetary blueprints for space weapons, they are no interplanetary blueprints for space vehicles!!!!

Should I bother be a space knight when space pirate is no looter? ...