Should Sweaters Gang Up and Raise the Price?

PkmX

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well your analog is wrong aswell.

were at the point where we call sweating "work" again.

People that call afk sweating work, have never seen real work in their life. Come to my construction site and ill show you what it means to work.
I would be very interested about the AFK sweating thing, AFAIK there is still some attention required (and much more than AFK clicking BSMs) even if you sweat at nea's place in a group.

People that come home from their job, when they log on, they dont consider this being more work, they consider themselves playing the game, while with the pro sweaters you will hear every second one telling you how much effort and work hes put in....
Your definition of "work" seems to be pretty narrowed here. What you said may be true if we are talking about some games where exchange between in-game currency and real-life cash is illegal or nearly impossible, but EU is a game where the PEDs you earned, through whatever means allowed in-game, can be exchanged into real-life money. So yes, they are putting efforts and works into this game, gathering something for others in return of PEDs, which can then be withdrawn. That is working, although the salary is a bit pathetic currently.

Even if you still don't consider them "working" but just "playing the game", they are just a group of players who understand the need of others (i.e. they do not want to stop hunting proterons, big leviathans or scipulors to sweat), provide the service and get some money in return. People created a market for that and they are just taking advantage of this market to gain some PEDs.

Back to the original topic: As for trying to raising the price, it is of course very natural that people want to sell their items for higher prices, and this is especially true in a game where real money are concerned. But this is currently not very possible unless you can monopoly all the sweaters in-game, which is not very likely to happen. The best you can hope is that sweats ever become useful one day and the price will go up again.
 
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OZtwo

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Theres simply way to much sweat on market. I can see old names still sweating since I started to play EU. They all have more than 500k of sweat sitting in storage. MA should limit it, like you have freerolls in poker once a day for example. So make sweating available only for few hours of the day. Except new avatars, lets say everyone with less than 500 SG points can sweat as much as they want.
This is so true. A lot of sweaters who are complaining don't get it that the market is just way to flooded with sweat. They don't seem to understand that the large groups of sweaters with them each and every day are as well collecting sweat to sale. Next time you are out sweating, keep count of all active sweaters with you and then when you sum up your sweat multiply it by the amount of other sweaters with you that day. As well, there's a lot of people who will buy sweat, but they buy it for pity to help the new players out. There simply is no real need for sweat these days.
 

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This is so true. A lot of sweaters who are complaining don't get it that the market is just way to flooded with sweat. They don't seem to understand that the large groups of sweaters with them each and every day are as well collecting sweat to sale...
They get it, but there's nothing they can do about it, that's not the problem!...
...There simply is no real need for sweat these days.
There's the problem!... Before Vehicles and Synthetic Mind Essence there was a need for it!

MA fashioned the sweat market into the way it is now!

Trying to preach to the sweaters "There's too many of you out here, you guys need to take turns, you're killing your markup competing with eachother!" Will never ever work!... because there's so many of them, sweat is so worthless, and they are mostly new players!

MA controls the sweat market, not the sweaters! :wise:
And there's nothing anyone can do about it!
 

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They get it, but there's nothing they can do about it, that's not the problem!...

There's the problem!... Before Vehicles and Synthetic Mind Essence there was a need for it!

MA fashioned the sweat market into the way it is now!

Trying to preach to the sweaters "There's too many of you out here, you guys need to take turns, you're killing your markup competing with eachother!" Will never ever work!... because there's so many of them, sweat is so worthless, and they are mostly new players!

MA controls the sweat market, not the sweaters! :wise:
And there's nothing anyone can do about it!
No one controls the sweat market. It simply responds to market pressures. Sweat will continue to drop to near its real value, which is near zero. It's real value is so low because it is free for anyone who wants to take a few minutes to collect it.

Of course there are factors that affect its price as you pointed out. With vehicles and synthetic me, the demand for sweat has certainly dropped. But the manufacturing of sweat hasn't dropped off much, so the inventory of sweat grows and grows. This growing inventory pushes the price down.

So only two things can happen that will make the price rise. Make more uses for sweat, or reduce the amount of sweat being produced.

"Ganging up" and trying to force the price higher by coersion will only worsen the situation. Even more people will start sweating because the high price will encourage more people to sweat. And that will flood the market with even MORE sweat which will crash the market even harder when the manipulation ends.
 

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No one controls the sweat market. It simply responds to market pressures. Sweat will continue to drop to near its real value, which is near zero. It's real value is so low because it is free for anyone who wants to take a few minutes to collect it.
Actually MA DOES control it... they control it by controlling those market pressures! They can do as they please to influence it... and they directly controlled it when they changed the drop rate from 4-24 to 1-4

and it takes hours to collect a couple K's of sweat that you'd be extremely lucky to get 5 ped for!
Of course there are factors that affect its price as you pointed out. With vehicles and synthetic me, the demand for sweat has certainly dropped. But the manufacturing of sweat hasn't dropped off much, so the inventory of sweat grows and grows. This growing inventory pushes the price down.

So only two things can happen that will make the price rise. Make more uses for sweat, or reduce the amount of sweat being produced.
This is all true, only it would be totally unfair to reduce the sweat drop further than they have, or lessen the frequency of successful attempts... that's already at all time low ever since v10... Only fair option is to make more uses for sweat...

either way, that is in MA's hands an uncontrollable by the sweat community as a whole!
"Ganging up" and trying to force the price higher by coersion will only worsen the situation. Even more people will start sweating because the high price will encourage more people to sweat. And that will flood the market with even MORE sweat which will crash the market even harder when the manipulation ends.
that may be true, if rallying the sweaters was a possibility... it's not though

that's why MA has sole control over it all! They develop and impose everything that influences the market!
All the sweaters can do is sweat, and sell for whatever they can get!
 

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I could summarize my four and a half year relationship with sweat as follows:

1st stage:
sweating
2nd. stage:
swunting
3rd stage:
swunting and depositing
4th stage:
buying sweat and consuming for teleporting
5th stage:
buying sweat, the vehicles are introduced, I reduced my consumption by teleporting
6th stage:
Depositing and now I only buy sweat of the rookies of my society, I use it exclusively for my teleportation chips.

Had it not been for those first two stages in which I sell sweat to buy ammo and then hunt,I had never come to the third. Let the sweat for the novice, put a low limit of skills for an avatar can continue sweating.
 
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Uvas

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They only control part of the equation. I think they intoduced vehicles because a large amount of players wanted them. They didn't introduce them to crash the sweat market. But it did show the effect of demand on sweat prices. But it is also the people sweating and the people buying and selling sweat that ultimately determine the price of sweat.

No market is static. Everything is in a constant state of flux. Products and services become outdated every day. A company must adapt to market pressures or go under. Just ask General Motors.

A case could be made that MA's decision to introduce vehicles was them simply reacting to the demands of their marketplace, and not a conspiracy to undermine the sweat market. Many many people wanted them, so MA introduced them.
 

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Actually, the only reason why we have a sweat price cartel thread (yet again) is MA's fuck up with our latest uber toy:

The Hussk

Spawning it requires an insane amount of sweat, and, once people go to regular "Hussks" events just like big beacons there will be way more sweat needed.

It's just... the Hussk was bugged on first attempt, just like every boss mob, people will probably be more reluctant now to spent 1000+ PED on sweat when that thing doesn't even loot.

What we need, instead of a sweat price cartel, is a player council, telling MA to introduce more "boss mobs" that do require sweat to be spawned, but can be killed by a team of 6-8 medium skilled players.

Somehow i got the feeling MA has already such plans, the Hussk desaster just put them on hold for a while...
If i am right, go buy sweat! Now! It'll never be that cheap again!
 

Uvas

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Another thought has crossed my mind.

I work for a private company. We supply restaurants with meat and produce. When we are trying to get a new customer, we often give free samples of our products. If we get the customer, we start to charge for our products. We cannot continue to give away free products and hope to survive. We would quickly run out of money and go under.

MA acts in a similar way. Their product is the immersive world they provide us. Their free sample is the sweat they ggive for free. They cannot be expected to continue to give away their product for free forever. They will go under if they do. At some point we need to become paying customers.

Obviously, MA considers the free sweat as too much to give away. They must be concerned with such things as chinese sweat farms and so on, that just bleed away their profits. That is why they attempt to lower the price as they can. They understand how the market works. Lower the demand, and lower the price.
 

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What we need, instead of a sweat price cartel, is a player council, telling MA to introduce more "boss mobs" that do require sweat to be spawned, but can be killed by a team of 6-8 medium skilled players.
that would be nice!

Events that require an enormous chunk of sweat is a great was to stimulate the market!
More of them would be a good thing!

:thumbup:
 

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being some what of a newer Player(month) and also being a none depoer, it is really hard to sell sweat, seems only way to sell it, is to soc mates and even that is hard..
why cant MA make it where we can eather sell on ah(which Prolly be just as hard) or make a way we can trade it in for other things or as others have said make more uses for it.

I would love to be able to trade sweat in for say ammo to go hunt or use it to buy a ship so I can travel to other planets anything to make the game a little more fun
 

Tycoon

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...why cant MA make it where we can eather sell on ah(which Prolly be just as hard)...
I think that would only make prices worse, + you'd have to pay auction fees...

or make a way we can trade it in for other things or as others have said make more uses for it.

I would love to be able to trade sweat in for say ammo to go hunt or use it to buy a ship so I can travel to other planets anything to make the game a little more fun
I think some kind of sweat-taking terminal for low end (L) items would be decent!
(maybe trade sweat for tokens, and use tokens in that terminal)

I really like that idea! :beerchug:
 

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I just traded 5k of sweat, for welding wire..at my local crafting terminal :dunce:
 

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(...)
I would love to be able to trade sweat in for say ammo to go hunt or use it to buy a ship so I can travel to other planets anything to make the game a little more fun
(...)
I think some kind of sweat-taking terminal for low end (L) items would be decent!
(maybe trade sweat for tokens, and use tokens in that terminal)
(...)
This is not going to happen.

Curently sweat costs MA nothing (well - almost nothing... 1k sweat = 0.01ped).
If there would be a terminal that you could exchange for items with TT value (or for tokens that are exchangable for TT value) lets say the exchange rate would be: 1k sweat for 2ped worth in TT of something, then soon MA would become bancrupt or other players would see drop in loot in a noticable way.
It possible to gather about 500 sweat/hour now on average (600 on average when using synch chip when solo sweat-hutning). So for 2 hours MA would have to PAY a player 2peds... now they "PAY" 0.02ped ;). Notice that MA is not so generous about giving TT value: most christmas/holiday presents have 0.01 or max 1.00ped value. The oil rig generates like what - 5 or 6peds every half hour (not sure - never got one ;)) and there is only one and still MA hopes here that the cost of keeping the rig closed will be higher than the oil that spawns there.

So dont expect that MA will provide any backup for this in minimal guaranteed price ;). Seems to me that they are rather happy that the markup slowly goes down. Like someone (Tycoon?) said they CAN do somethign about it but it is clear that they do not want to ;).

Falagor
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I wouldn't expect it to give current market price (2ped/K) worth of items...

maybe 1/4... still better than TT price, but far worse than going rate, for convenience

(just an idea, like the thread title... but yeah, I'm sure it won't happen anyway)
 

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I wouldn't expect it to give current market price (2ped/K) worth of items...

maybe 1/4... still better than TT price, but far worse than going rate, for convenience

(just an idea, like the thread title... but yeah, I'm sure it won't happen anyway)
Great idea but all that will happen here is buyers will use these terminal's as standards then offer just a little more then what the TT will give.

What can be done is have it give finders guns etc with same or little less status as the current TT guns but the TT values of the is what of the sweat take so like 0.001 pec TT value for items but obviously decay is exceptional and gets as many shots/drops out of the item's as the current TT items.

This also stop MA buying from these sweat machines and pay peds! all that will do is lower depositers returns as the peds have to come from somewhere.

Inno
 

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I once had a stack of sweat, whith tt value was = to a rookie finder. I was very tempted to sell to tt and go do mini mining run...I logged out and got drunk instead :) but the thought crossed my mind.
 

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There is only one way to solve the problem:
Increase the demand for sweat.

Everything else will not work because it will cost MA money.

In the view of MA it should not matter if 1k sweat has 2PED or 2000PED Markup because the TT-value of the Markup comes from the Player that is buying the sweat.
 

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This is not going to happen.

Curently sweat costs MA nothing (well - almost nothing... 1k sweat = 0.01ped).
If there would be a terminal that you could exchange for items with TT value (or for tokens that are exchangable for TT value) lets say the exchange rate would be: 1k sweat for 2ped worth in TT of something, then soon MA would become bancrupt or other players would see drop in loot in a noticable way.
It possible to gather about 500 sweat/hour now on average (600 on average when using synch chip when solo sweat-hutning). So for 2 hours MA would have to PAY a player 2peds... now they "PAY" 0.02ped ;). Notice that MA is not so generous about giving TT value: most christmas/holiday presents have 0.01 or max 1.00ped value. The oil rig generates like what - 5 or 6peds every half hour (not sure - never got one ;)) and there is only one and still MA hopes here that the cost of keeping the rig closed will be higher than the oil that spawns there.

So dont expect that MA will provide any backup for this in minimal guaranteed price ;). Seems to me that they are rather happy that the markup slowly goes down. Like someone (Tycoon?) said they CAN do somethign about it but it is clear that they do not want to ;).

Falagor
:bandit:
Actually, the oil rig generates 5-30 PED every half an hour. And for the record, I've actually managed to get 14+ PED from it before getting blown apart (1400+ oil just happened to spawn next to me :p). :D

(Okay, okay, maybe that was one of the insanely rare times when no one else was at the rig...)
 

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Notice that MA is not so generous about giving TT value: most christmas/holiday presents have 0.01 or max 1.00ped value. The oil rig generates like what - 5 or 6peds every half hour (not sure - never got one ;)) and there is only one and still MA hopes here that the cost of keeping the rig closed will be higher than the oil that spawns there.
They didn't even give out Valentine's Day gifts this year! :inbed:

And the Oil rig is very finicky... I've seen it give out 3 drops for 12-14 ped each in under 20 seconds, and I've seen it go over 2 hours for a 9 ped drop... it used to be on an almost exact timer, but people stopped fighting over it until the last minute, so they made spawn time erratic, so people have to constantly fight for it now if they want it... they designed it to make them money when it was just givin' it out! :smoke:

rig is more for having fun than making profit... the oil is just an incentive, and if you're lucky you can break even or even sometimes make some quick profit... but if you're there at the wrong times and make the wrong decisions, you can lose peds quick, and get caught up in some serious drama that can have lasting effects!
I don't like stupid drama :silly2:
 

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Actually, the oil rig generates 5-30 PED every half an hour. And for the record, I've actually managed to get 14+ PED from it before getting blown apart (1400+ oil just happened to spawn next to me :p). :D

(Okay, okay, maybe that was one of the insanely rare times when no one else was at the rig...)
I have never been to the rig , but from my understanding players pay a shit load on ammo and waste more on ammo than they do get back in oil and that nots taken into account decay.
 

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Terrible, would just drive everyone away!...
And.. Um, remind me again, please, when I said it wouldn't drive everyone away? ^^

I was just stating that, that would probably raise the price of sweat dramatically. :yup:
 

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I have never been to the rig , but from my understanding players pay a shit load on ammo and waste more on ammo than they do get back in oil and that nots taken into account decay.
Yes, true. Unless you get lucky like I did and find it completely deserted. :)
 
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The message below is outdated: I've completely given up any hope whatsoever of the price of sweat going up.
and thats why the price wont go up
 

Uvas

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and thats why the price wont go up
No it isn't. It is because the market is over-saturated with a product with very limited uses that everyone is free to gather themselves...

It's not because not enough people try to "gang up" and somehow force people to buy something for more than what its worth.
 

ArieJVW

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and thats why the price wont go up
lol Can't agree more, if your going to give up trying to sell at a higher price after a few days even a week, then its just like the rest trying to sell for a quick sale.

I don't understand how you can sweat for hours then try and sell off quickly to get peds, surely if you need the peds quickly you would not be sweating.

:) Inno
 

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lI don't understand how you can sweat for hours then try and sell off quickly to get peds, surely if you need the peds quickly you would not be sweating.

:) Inno
yep, it's a vicious circle!...

that's why the sweaters always saying "get in circle!" :lolup:
 

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lol Can't agree more, if your going to give up trying to sell at a higher price after a few days even a week, then its just like the rest trying to sell for a quick sale.

I don't understand how you can sweat for hours then try and sell off quickly to get peds, surely if you need the peds quickly you would not be sweating.

:) Inno
There a number of reasons why sweaters so low.

1) Want ped now and not later.
2) Have so much sweat selling the odd 1 will not make much diffrence.
3) Once they reach their goal they stop (say 100 ped they will start tradeing)
4) They have no one else to sell too.
5) They new to the game and told thats the going price.
6) Some sweat for skill not to make money.
 
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