Should Uber Hunters Be Guaranteed TT Profit?

[girtsn]

What really is both anecdotal and arrogant at best (I was in past also an example of that, irony is not lost on me) - as soon as people start to get close to 100 tt return or over, they seem to go into denial on possibility of 92% tt return with decent equipment and skills and behavior + attack mode on anyone suffering from it. You are an excellent example of this, still remember you asking very similar existential questions over PM, also repeatedly - which begs the question - why now this god mode? Disagreeing on Trump and gun policy is not a good reason. Since the system towards different participants is a black box, there is no way for you to know the return for other avatars only make assumptions based on your experience.

Volatility - have never seen the mentioned volatility over a longer term, my tt returns have been consistent on the same mob over a period of time. Last year eomons mainly alpha were 95%, before that way higher. This year is 90.73% on mixed mobs average below alpha. This has little to do with swirls according to my experience that return is consistent.

If you followed my hunting log you have seen that tt profit has been out of question for me since April 2016 - the loot 2.0 should not have made a big difference but it crashed my tt return from 95-97% to 92% at the moment. The MU is a nonsensical argument at least for Calypso, 80% or so of the loot is crapnel, the rest cannot cover such tt return not even close. Besides, it all goes in circles. When MU was high, people were crying about stackers and re-sellers sucking the blood out of them. Now it is high tt returns of others that sucks the blood out of them. MU to the rescue! Until the next iteration.

Anecdotal at best. Migration and heavily populated areas are always volatile.. sometimes you get the swirls, many times you are bent over. Yea you could do bigger mobs because you can, but you need the bankroll and the markup needs to be there for it to be worth. But you knew all this already, so it begs the question as why this needs to be a constant reminder?

TT was never the focus of hunting. It was always markup. But you could win TT with gear and grind on mobs with just shrapnel and ammo. Now with 2.0, it seems you cant or it is more important to find the markup.. as it should be... just like the other 2 professions. While volatility doesnt make much sense, it is what it is.

 

[Me Really Never]

What really is both anecdotal and arrogant at best (I was in past also an example of that, irony is not lost on me) - as soon as people start to get close to 100 tt return or over, they seem to go into denial on possibility of 92% tt return with decent equipment and skills and behavior + attack mode on anyone suffering from it. You are an excellent example of this, still remember you asking very similar existential questions over PM, also repeatedly - which begs the question - why now this god mode? Disagreeing on Trump and gun policy is not a good reason. Since the system towards different participants is a black box, there is no way for you to know the return for other avatars only make assumptions based on your experience.

Volatility - have never seen the mentioned volatility over a longer term, my tt returns have been consistent on the same mob over a period of time. Last year eomons mainly alpha were 95%, before that way higher. This year is 90.73% on mixed mobs average below alpha. This has little to do with swirls according to my experience that return is consistent.

If you followed my hunting log you have seen that tt profit has been out of question for me since April 2016 - the loot 2.0 should not have made a big difference but it crashed my tt return from 95-97% to 92% at the moment. The MU is a nonsensical argument at least for Calypso, 80% or so of the loot is crapnel, the rest cannot cover such tt return not even close. Besides, it all goes in circles. When MU was high, people were crying about stackers and re-sellers sucking the blood out of them. Now it is high tt returns of others that sucks the blood out of them. MU to the rescue! Until the next iteration.

okay so you are basically saying, that MA added loot 2.0, which changed up how loot is calculated, as other factors may matter more now than before etc etc and you wonder why you dont get the same return while doing the same as before with the same equipment as before? thats baffling

 

[Jhereg]

Aka "Should we turn this game into a pyramid scheme?"

 

[das]

What really is both anecdotal and arrogant at best (I was in past also an example of that, irony is not lost on me) - as soon as people start to get close to 100 tt return or over, they seem to go into denial on possibility of 92% tt return with decent equipment and skills and behavior + attack mode on anyone suffering from it. You are an excellent example of this, still remember you asking very similar existential questions over PM, also repeatedly - which begs the question - why now this god mode? Disagreeing on Trump and gun policy is not a good reason. Since the system towards different participants is a black box, there is no way for you to know the return for other avatars only make assumptions based on your experience.

Volatility - have never seen the mentioned volatility over a longer term, my tt returns have been consistent on the same mob over a period of time. Last year eomons mainly alpha were 95%, before that way higher. This year is 90.73% on mixed mobs average below alpha. This has little to do with swirls according to my experience that return is consistent.

If you followed my hunting log you have seen that tt profit has been out of question for me since April 2016 - the loot 2.0 should not have made a big difference but it crashed my tt return from 95-97% to 92% at the moment. The MU is a nonsensical argument at least for Calypso, 80% or so of the loot is crapnel, the rest cannot cover such tt return not even close. Besides, it all goes in circles. When MU was high, people were crying about stackers and re-sellers sucking the blood out of them. Now it is high tt returns of others that sucks the blood out of them. MU to the rescue! Until the next iteration.

I really wonder what the return would be if I where to play your ava as only person for a month..
Sadly enough, I just don't have the time & collateral for it

 

[Me Really Never]

so girtsn is paying people to lose money for him?
okay i got an offer for you girtsn:
you pay me half of what you would lose in the time that you play and instead of playing you just dont log on. that saves you 50% of your money! aint that a great deal?

 

[atomicstorm]

What really is both anecdotal and arrogant at best (I was in past also an example of that, irony is not lost on me) - as soon as people start to get close to 100 tt return or over, they seem to go into denial on possibility of 92% tt return with decent equipment and skills and behavior + attack mode on anyone suffering from it. You are an excellent example of this, still remember you asking very similar existential questions over PM, also repeatedly - which begs the question - why now this god mode? Disagreeing on Trump and gun policy is not a good reason. Since the system towards different participants is a black box, there is no way for you to know the return for other avatars only make assumptions based on your experience.

Volatility - have never seen the mentioned volatility over a longer term, my tt returns have been consistent on the same mob over a period of time. Last year eomons mainly alpha were 95%, before that way higher. This year is 90.73% on mixed mobs average below alpha. This has little to do with swirls according to my experience that return is consistent.

If you followed my hunting log you have seen that tt profit has been out of question for me since April 2016 - the loot 2.0 should not have made a big difference but it crashed my tt return from 95-97% to 92% at the moment. The MU is a nonsensical argument at least for Calypso, 80% or so of the loot is crapnel, the rest cannot cover such tt return not even close. Besides, it all goes in circles. When MU was high, people were crying about stackers and re-sellers sucking the blood out of them. Now it is high tt returns of others that sucks the blood out of them. MU to the rescue! Until the next iteration.

Who said i was in god mode? What i said in my quote you quoted is how the game has always been. Youve been spoiled by tt gains but it was markup all along. What you failed to mention was that i went out of my way even after you going on the attack to help figure out how to get back on your path. You remember that? Or did we forget. Ill not even reply to your injection of gun control and politics into it.

Youre right though.. i asked you questions in PM (when you were there to answer) while skilling to 100 painfully using unmaxed. You said (paraphrased) that everything was amazing after L120 and loot rained from the heavens.. that something seemed to change.. and that i could use unmaxed.. both were wrong. I didnt succeed until i paid attention to the math, stop letting fluffers burn me, and found my own way... and i did.. and almost everything people told me on the way up was a lie.

I have nothing left to offer you. You ignore the math. Perhaps you dont understand what volatility means in context of probability. You are still after tt gains - in the wrong thinking (which was my quote). Buying, assumingly, a 3% crit ring hoping to regain former glory, but youve already lost. Even through the strange sell out threads and anger, hopefully you find your way again. (But you wont if you keep doing the same stuff with big mobs)

 

[girtsn]

I really wonder what the return would be if I where to play your ava as only person for a month..

It's indeed a possibility that MA directly or indirectly caps worker setups same as many other capping options are possible - if so it's silly, playing levels are nowhere close to 24/7 for any of the current well known avatars, the furthest might be messi. Then again multiple other multiusers have told me they are doing very ok regardless of how much they play. And it used to work for me from around april 2014 to april 2016. Maybe for me its 2 years of bad loot then 2 years of good loot lol. April 2018 ftw!
Btw you also have to consider your recent returns might be a comeback effect not fully credited to loot 2.0

so girtsn is paying people to lose money for him?
okay i got an offer for you girtsn:
you pay me half of what you would lose in the time that you play and instead of playing you just dont log on. that saves you 50% of your money! aint that a great deal?

I used to fool myself in such a period from 2012 that I was investing in skills (e.g. gaining 20k worth of skills per month that could be sold for like 6k in theory) and will probably improve returns as of that at some point later. That was also one reason why I unlocked all the known skills, collected 147 2k+ skills and got close to 800k skills as a result. But coming closer and closer to Entropia Master level I realized more and more that the impact on returns might be quite the opposite.

 

[girtsn]

Most of the people including me seem to go to some kind of god mode when they profit or at least break even.
On getting close to 100% tt - even now there are people who are hunting the same mobs Smilgs does and consistently getting tt breakeven. Hell they even get the big ESIs with it. If Smilgs is not good enough by now to shoot eomon youngs proven by 94% tt return, what should be hunted then?
I have not forgotten you tried to help me with Arkadia and am grateful for that, but when you asked me in the past I was not lying. As said I don't understand what made me start doing good after april 2014 and then stop april 2016, one of the things that changed was going to level120 as well as this is what I was told by some others. But I hopefully didn't try to say that if it worked for me it would work for you did I? This is something that cannot be ensured in a blackbox.

Who said i was in god mode? What i said in my quote you quoted is how the game has always been. Youve been spoiled by tt gains but it was markup all along. What you failed to mention was that i went out of my way even after you going on the attack to help figure out how to get back on your path. You remember that? Or did we forget. Ill not even reply to your injection of gun control and politics into it.

Youre right though.. i asked you questions in PM (when you were there to answer) while skilling to 100 painfully using unmaxed. You said (paraphrased) that everything was amazing after L120 and loot rained from the heavens.. that something seemed to change.. and that i could use unmaxed.. both were wrong. I didnt succeed until i paid attention to the math, stop letting fluffers burn me, and found my own way... and i did.. and almost everything people told me on the way up was a lie.

I have nothing left to offer you. You ignore the math. Perhaps you dont understand what volatility means in context of probability. You are still after tt gains - in the wrong thinking (which was my quote). Buying, assumingly, a 3% crit ring hoping to regain former glory, but youve already lost. Even through the strange sell out threads and anger, hopefully you find your way again. (But you wont if you keep doing the same stuff with big mobs)

 

[Eli]

She told me that he said that his father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate is doing really well.

 

[dan trin]

Hard Fork and EU

 

[NPV]

Short answer, no.

We should all pay tax/decay whatever you name it, depending on your setup, to Mindark. Our returns depend on our gear, should be maxed below 100% long term.

Profit should be from MU, hunting smart, hunting that MU. Shooting random shit with best gear should never yield 100+% TT return.

While I have plenty hate for crafting, it is guaranteed profit. I don't need 300k gear, buffs, amps or other shit and can always profit crafting. There are exceptions of course, I had that exception few months ago and went -8k in a month, but it's back and more. That was a test, an expensive test to learn that never craft anything below 200% MU...

 

[Dan59]

Profit should be from MU, hunting smart, hunting that MU. Shooting random shit with best gear should never yield 100+% TT return.

To loot pice of best gear is/should be dream of every hunter - best MU
To use that looted best MU gear you probably need to skill a lot.
All with goal to be able to shoot random shit with less cost and more efficiency than other hunters.

Game need to have this sort of goals.
If nobody need anything then there is no MU at all.

 

[carle]

To loot pice of best gear is/should be dream of every hunter - best MU
To use that looted best MU gear you probably need to skill a lot.
All with goal to be able to shoot random shit with less cost and more efficiency than other hunters.

Game need to have this sort of goals.
If nobody need anything then there is no MU at all.

Its spot on.
People wanting all too have <100 are also the same persons who wants to bring back the old loot where you could get mm and mod faps in loot so game is exciting again.
But also strongly advocates for a system where you migth as well put them directly in the TT machine.

 

[Tamosius]

Its MA problems they killed all MU,PVP,Craft,Miniing. Now they killed all ubers with huge loss.Soon here will play few nooobs who allways writing that all ubers with uber stuff stealing their money and no understanding that allmost all economie depends on them.GL with loots and GL with trying recover all yours looses with 1% total MU on server

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

Its MA problems they killed all MU,PVP,Craft,Miniing. Now they killed all ubers with huge loss.Soon here will play few nooobs who allways writing that all ubers with uber stuff stealing their money and no understanding that allmost all economie depends on them.GL with loots and GL with trying recover all yours looses with 1% total MU on server

Sounds like UBERS are upset that they are not profiting as they used to...

There is MU on loot btw - if you hunt something different than Mayhem Araneatrox and Longtooth...

 

[GoNi]

Its MA problems they killed all MU,PVP,Craft,Miniing. Now they killed all ubers with huge loss.Soon here will play few nooobs who allways writing that all ubers with uber stuff stealing their money and no understanding that allmost all economie depends on them.GL with loots and GL with trying recover all yours looses with 1% total MU on server

Thats an economical nobrainer.

For the ingame economy its mainly the UBERs cycling many kPED every day who cause the oversupply of materials, what itself kills the MU for the loots the UBERs get. They do that mainly with UL gear (IMKII,MM, buff rings aso). Some surely will use L too, but those used L gear is mainly looted by themselfs and not crafted. So they contribute nothing to the demand of crafted L. Without a demand for crafted things, no resources consumed to craft this items, all what is left is the crafting gamblers that consume a part of the loot (if not clicking straight on Explo).
If they do it on TT profit, they don´t even contribute to paying MAs oberating expences, as MA earns from loss vs TT (decay).

So your statement here is a nobrainer, the really big cyclers with the best eco gear contribte less to ingame economy than a noob using some L gear that is affordable for him. Its much more the opposite, they hurt the economy by oversupply. That counts for UBER miners aswell as for hunters.

Who really contribute to ingame economy and create some MU is the crafting gamblers that don´t do it with Explo and the handful of crafters that actually know what to craft that really sells. And surely those hunters/miners that use enhancers, amplifiers and other stuff that come from crafting (Some of the so called UBERs can be counted to the last group aswell, but not the IMKII UBER eco hunter who uses only his UL gear.

Actually I have no problem with UBERs profiting on MA, thats the reason to skill up and improve gear, to be able to loot the nice MUs or win the events that give nice items with very good MU.
Some will say this events is a giveaway to UBERs, well it is, but it is not profit vs TT, its profit from MU, and if someone invested enough money and time to win these events, he definately deserved it.

 

[wizz]

Its MA problems they killed all MU,PVP,Craft,Miniing. Now they killed all ubers with huge loss.Soon here will play few nooobs who allways writing that all ubers with uber stuff stealing their money and no understanding that allmost all economie depends on them.GL with loots and GL with trying recover all yours looses with 1% total MU on server

lol, you feel wronged?

so in your world there only exist TT profiting ubers and noobs and nothing in between?
Nice limited view of the game you got there.

Maybe you should spend some more time exploring entropia instead of auto firing to widen your horizon a bit.

 

[shoti]

Guaranteed TT profit for top ubers with good item banlancing and amount management is will make ingame economy blossom, and hundreds of new challengers coming into game every week.

It weal also cease uber items inflation.

After all most of oldschool ubers who already left game came here in times some 10-12 years ago when such thing was possible.

Those willing to join such "guaranteed top " will make this game and its economy rolling when such knowledge hits MMORPG players mind over the world.

 

[Gewitter]

Noone should be guaranteed TT profit

 

[Detritus]

Noone should be guaranteed TT profit

This ^^^^^^^


With the keyword being "guaranteed". If the survey was "Should uber hunters be capable of TT profit?", I would have said yes.

 

[Avon(AJ)Jerrix]

I quote myself...

"Guaranteed" is a ridiculous word to use in such a question.

Guaranteed is a bad choice of word but all we have in this poll. (Which seems biased to make people vote no). Should ubers (understood in the eco sense) be likely to make tt profit? Hell yeah.

[...]A yes vote can mean anything because it is a subjective and somewhat vague question.[...]

The word "guaranteed" is precisely chosen and precisely appropriate for this poll, because it is the precise argument that has taken over more than one thread. It started in responses to Hulk's post about his Loot v2 returns so far, and then spread to threads such as the dev's posts, DoA's goodbye, and others. This isn't about markup, it is about TT. The argument is that the very top level hunters, who have the very top end equipment, and consistently cycle hundreds of thousands of dollars...not ped, dollars...should be guaranteed a TT profit, just as at any other job, either because they deserve it for all of the skilling and investment they have put into the game, or because their decay is supporting MindArk, or as the only incentive there is for people to play this game in hopes of joining them, or all three.

There is validity in this argument, but also in various counter-arguments. I will vote no, mainly because as a practical matter I don't think it is a sustainable business model. A game like WoW has enough players to support a class of professional gamers. I don't think EU can attract and retain enough players willing to lose money for years in TT to support elite players in the hopes of one day being one. The issue is worth discussion.

I admit that I thought the poll would be more lopsided.

...because the poll seems to be still unclear to commenters.

 

[Duhword]

Same chance to profit/loss for everyone.

same chance to profit/loss for everyone means that skills don't matter and makes the real money economy aspect of the game completely non existent... the more skills you have and the more you contribute to the economy and market, the more likely you should be to make money. if the game loses that, then its just a money hole and not an investment.

 

[Freddy_M]

same chance to profit/loss for everyone means that skills don't matter and makes the real money economy aspect of the game completely non existent... the more skills you have and the more you contribute to the economy and market, the more likely you should be to make money. if the game loses that, then its just a money hole and not an investment.

In the free economy, profits are not guaranteed too, just because you have studied ......
Apart from it, would it be called, all other finance the Ubers without profit prospect? I see no motivation for the other participants ....

Greetz

 

[igi]

Depends what you mean by ubers. I would say yes maybe top 3 or 5 players in game should get 101% tt return in hunt. Those with most skills and only if they use eco gear. That way skill price would go up and ppl would compete to be in top 5. No matter how much money you invest to chip in it would not be a sure thing that you will constantly profit because if other guy later comes and chip in more than you, you loose. Imo it would be a chance also for small players to profit by selling skills and would maybe attract ppl with alot of money to deposit and play. MA anyway wants only to make money and they care mostly just about that and not to much about the game and bugs anyway. This way we all could profit and it would be more competitive and would have some sense to chip in. Today when anything you do makes you just loose constantly its kind of boring and pointless to chip in because that way you just loose faster. Gameplay is not so interesting and klicking on mobs when you know it eventually leads to sure loss is not so interesting imo. Now ppl will say Im talking about how the game sucks but im still playing it . Yes I do but only to trade most of the time and to chat with ppl while hoping that one day they put something in game that would make it more interesting and make me wish to play it and compete with others. This would for sure be a good start.