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Suggestion: Space Land Grab

They should not make it possible to teleport from planet to planet. Players who invested in motherships or privateers/pathfinders should not lose their only viable revenue stream. The only way I would consider approving such a thing is if the teleport fee is high, like 50ped. and it goes into a pool that is paid out to all the ACTIVE ship owners each week. So someone who has not been online in the past week is removed from the pool come payouts. So players can choose to use a warp service for cheaper, or pay more for the teleport. but this way it doesnt kill the economy around fuses and warp drives, and providing warp services.

I own a ship, but I don't run an official warp service, I occasionally do sell warps or help friends out, but that is not my main income. So my suggestion above would be the same whether I owned a ship or not.
 
Sulje said:
Current system is good. Flying with quad wherever you want takes only 15-17 minutes, shouldn't be a problem for those who want to save 5-6 peds.
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It's so good msot people don't do it, just because of that reason, there's a 15-17 min to closest planet. It's like one hour if you relog at space server border to NI..

John B Knight said:
But to accuse ship owners of 'forcing' something on others when we just worked with the tools mindark provided in the system that mindark provided (like you planetside) - thats the actual non cool thing to do.
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You completely misunderstood. MA is forcing, not you, ship owners. Nothing against any warp business, on the contrary, your services are needed actually more than the current availability, hence the frustration. So it's not about you. It's not about me either, if I can get an equus easier, not everyone can. And also they're not very available, not the pathfinders... that is not the point tho. But yeah, I would prefer to pay a fee per TP instead of blocking 60k in a ship...
 
Evey said:
It's so good msot people don't do it, just because of that reason, there's a 15-17 min to closest planet. It's like one hour if you relog at space server border to NI..


You completely misunderstood. MA is forcing, not you, ship owners. Nothing against any warp business, on the contrary, your services are needed actually more than the current availability, hence the frustration. So it's not about you. It's not about me either, if I can get an equus easier, not everyone can. And also they're not very available, not the pathfinders... that is not the point tho. But yeah, I would prefer to pay a fee per TP instead of blocking 60k in a ship...
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See my previous comment in regards to the fee.

The problem is mindark just doesnt do things the way they should. They half arse everything and really don't seem to care about players happiness as long as the money is being spent. Why should they work if they are already getting paid? But they are so short sighted they cant think longterm and understand that they are hurting themselves for the quick gains now, at the cost of loss of a lot of potential income that would dwarf the quick gains.
 
Xanato Xan Kaso said:
They should not make it possible to teleport from planet to planet. Players who invested in motherships or privateers/pathfinders should not lose their only viable revenue stream. The only way I would consider approving such a thing is if the teleport fee is high, like 50ped. and it goes into a pool that is paid out to all the ACTIVE ship owners each week.
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Let me explain why I think this is a big bullshit. Out of 100+ ships, there are like 5 ACTIVE ship VIP warpers and 2 daily scheduled. The rest use for their own personal needs. Now if you think it's OK to trap the rest of the game because of these 7 warp ship owners...
There should be cheaper instant teleporting THEN content to follow for space to engage not only the 7 active warpers, but the rest of the ships...
 
Evey said:
Let me explain why I think this is a big bullshit. Out of 100+ ships, there are like 5 ACTIVE ship VIP warpers and 2 daily scheduled. The rest use for their own personal needs. Now if you think it's OK to trap the rest of the game because of these 7 warp ship owners...
There should be cheaper instant teleporting THEN content to follow for space to engage not only the 7 active warpers, but the rest of the ships...
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Which brings us right back to cargo missions which were promised in 2015 and mindark sold lots of equus in the wake of the announcement taking away quite abit of revenue from privateer and mothership owners. Missions round the clock means active ships round the clock means more ships available for flights and more ships better upgraded, more secure with more active crew.
We both know that if you give midnark the chance to do it right or to do a quickfix and promise to do the rest later they are not gonna do the rest (just like they did with cargo missions, takeing away is easy - giving back not so much).
 
Evey said:
Let me explain why I think this is a big bullshit. Out of 100+ ships, there are like 5 ACTIVE ship VIP warpers and 2 daily scheduled. The rest use for their own personal needs. Now if you think it's OK to trap the rest of the game because of these 7 warp ship owners...
There should be cheaper instant teleporting THEN content to follow for space to engage not only the 7 active warpers, but the rest of the ships...
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I would gladly run a warp service 24/7. Or close to it. But I have spent hours trying to get a warp and it was just wasted time. If you want I can give you pilot access to my ship and you can warp yourself and pay me the fees when you get back. Offer stands for anyone else as well who is willing to put down a deposit and as you use warps it gets deducted. I will sit in my ship so I can warp to someone. I am available almost 24/7.

Problem solved.
 
Evey said:
OK to trap the rest of the game because of these 7 warp ship owners...
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As much as that seems like a proper dig, I think I see where you are coming from. That it would be a benefit to the game as a whole even if it were to be at the expense of the few people actually putting the effort into transport people.

In my opinion- It then fundamentally comes down to trust. The Real cash economy thrives on the basis that we all hold onto the hope that our money won't turn to dust in a split second. We all know there are risks and we are taking chances. However Once you erode that hope in a sweeping manner, such as destroying space and all those who invested in it, any trust in the developers of the game would go with it.


As it would be if they removed any of the other aspects. As a hunter who rarely mines, if they removed mining and destroyed the investments of all the miners I certainly wouldn't be putting anything else into hunting.


If they make space a truly vibrant and exciting part of the game, more ships will become active and more transport will take place. I think you have it round the wrong way. Make space awesome, make it come alive and when it's thriving with so much more than it is now, these conversations wouldn't even be happening as TPs wouldn't be an issue if its done right.
 
Alainax said:
As much as that seems like a proper dig, I think I see where you are coming from. That it would be a benefit to the game as a whole even if it were to be at the expense of the few people actually putting the effort into transport people.

If they make space a truly vibrant and exciting part of the game, more ships will become active and more transport will take place. I think you have it round the wrong way. Make space awesome, make it come alive and when it's thriving with so much more than it is now, these conversations wouldn't even be happening as TPs wouldn't be an issue if its done right.
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This 100%. If they just did the job right, players would participate. "If you build it, they will come".


But if they want to half ass it with TP's, see my previous suggestion.
 
Xanato Xan Kaso said:
This 100%. If they just did the job right, players would participate. "If you build it, they will come".


But if they want to half ass it with TP's, see my previous suggestion.
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as much as i would like to be and see an active space, does not put us back to square one - personal transportation - once the space is going active and dynamic as we all want?

what i want to say is that once the space gets new special missions, new mobs, new dynamic and specific loot, cargo and such isn't the same issue with availability for personal warping once the space is concerned for those most important parts than transportation of a player who once again needs to pay 2 trips ? ( pick up and the warp destination )

who will care to fly a 10-20 mins warp for a person for a decent price ( we all know what is the real price of a warp ) when the desired content will be much more interesting and time eating than taxy service ? ( all the warps cost me around the same amount of time, and despite the fact is called fast i had to wait for ship to come picking me up... dock... summon... and warp me to destination and not once i toke my quad and went from cyrene to caly under the same amount of time and i can prove this anytime anyone wants )

if taxy is part of a larger activity that involves space i believe will be the last in its importance and when comes about sizes a MS/Priv is not fit for this activity at all, except special transportation like scheduled taxy for larger number of players or taxy for teams, not in the slightest way for one person, and the cost for a warp using this tremendous sized ships like MS/ Priv is unfair and out of ordinary......

who thinks that a MS and Priv should cost same warp price as a Quad ( fuel cost, decay, logistics and warp usage ) then once again everyone is looking on its own gain and not to see what is fair and balanced ( a bike has a smaller cost of fuel compared to a truck )

is soo cool now to pay same price for a diff gain, but if we want things balanced then this is not the way,

every ship needs to have a diff purpose in this game, and needs to serve this purpose in a balanced manner
 
Nice ol quote from Marco:

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Xanato Xan Kaso said:
I would gladly run a warp service 24/7. Or close to it. But I have spent hours trying to get a warp and it was just wasted time. If you want I can give you pilot access to my ship and you can warp yourself and pay me the fees when you get back. Offer stands for anyone else as well who is willing to put down a deposit and as you use warps it gets deducted. I will sit in my ship so I can warp to someone. I am available almost 24/7.

Problem solved.
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See, the service ain't even worth doing for the owners. That's how crappy it is atm :)
 
mastermesh said:
Nice ol quote from Marco:
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see screenie at #40 - just a short scroll up.
Is that your typo with "allwoing"? Would it cost you five peds to edit it and reupload, or what's the deal?
I'm curious because I'm also thinking of some "space grabbing" on a wall or two that I own. Signs and frames (or the bps for them) are stacking up, but I don't see much point in having them.
Maybe in the future they could be the access points for personal instances or so: to see my private boorum world, go to the well hung picture!
Ok, enough of that!!

More on point, I've always thought that motherships should act as a mobile revival point for whichever team or group is active in an area that is worth being in, but also dangerous. Land grab styles sound great for that, but I think costs should be set at 10% or so, the same as at the fort events I used to enjoy...
 
Xanato Xan Kaso said:
I would gladly run a warp service 24/7.
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In 2011 i had planned out Normandie as a 24/7 operational service/transport ship, had crewroster in place with pilots of all time zones, in the end it turned out that there wasnt enough passengers to run selfsustaining affordable schedules outside the main evening timeframe and for vip flights at all times/timezones 2 other factors were an issue: 1. Mindark would not enhance summon rights from just owner to everyone with pilot rights of the ship and 2. only owners would have the power to adjust guestlist entries
These 2 little changes were requested as far back as 2011 and were the major blocking point of going 24/7 - there was the possibility to run multiple ships but the needed investment would become so mcuh larger while the profit margin would go down.
Another issue of offering vip at 'offtimes' was the limited availability of generic fuses , running more vip's meant the price of fuses would go up and increase the cost even for scheduled warps a balance had to be maintained till mindnark went 'go fuck it' and released intercepters with unlimited drives that could function as cargo shuttles even though they had been designed with weight restrictions (eg antiweight container deepstacking).

In short to solve flight availability:
1.Summon rights for pilots
2.Guestlist maintenance for pilots
3.Unlimited warpdrives for capital ships (put them on token trader for 6+rares and 200k+ tokens) or an alternate warpdrive bp that can craft drives from common ressources at an overall higher tt cost to allow availability at all times without prices going through the roof
4. Cargo missions
 
Once again, solid analysis by JBK of WHY specific implementations MA have made aren't working so well. Unfortunately, apart from the short window of opportunity to the 'bug fix update' usually one week after implementation, nothing gets done for ages if imbalances etc take longer to take hold. Some stuff, such as cargo missions, turned out to be more complex - I get that - but summoning rights owners may allow some of their pilots, or guest list editing? C'mon!

MA may add some new things that may be desirable, such as giving pilots a simultaneous front gunner seat, but it appears to me they do so ONLY if players do NOT ask clearly and repeatedly for something. It's as if their pride is simply miles above wanting to actually improve things.
Sometimes wishes are not shared by all, or even a majority, I understand that. But lots of other stuff is suggested very solidly, with fairness taken very much into account.
 
John B Knight said:
In short to solve flight availability:
1.Summon rights for pilots
2.Guestlist maintenance for pilots
3.Unlimited warpdrives for capital ships (put them on token trader for 6+rares and 200k+ tokens) or an alternate warpdrive bp that can craft drives from common ressources at an overall higher tt cost to allow availability at all times without prices going through the roof
4. Cargo missions
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1. yes please yes. ( also maybe spesific summons instead of summon all so i can stop getting hate mail when docked at caly ).
2. oh yes...!
3. not sure this would help the economy of the game since once you have a UL warpdrive the demand for the parts would end so the whole supply/demand chain would be lost in keeping the ships running.
4. We do need more things in space.
 
What a waste of time and energy.
 
Space sucks and I(!!!) dont care about your "investent", ma never cared about anybodies "investment". Lemme play the gd game without your stupid vision of some space themed universe.

All you space investors think ma is protecting you and your money. No, all they care about is their vision of being a platform for other companies and them being the big dog providing the platform. Its been that way since alpha and it continues.

Its annoying and its also cool, its the thing that makes games fun. Like when you play anno and its only fun while you struggle, once everything runs, you restart.

There wont be a huge change cuz its tjis games vision but dont expect ma to protect your stupid space pixels, they change their mind, your "investements" mean shit to them
 
Thark said:
Space sucks and I(!!!) dont care about your "investent", ma never cared about anybodies "investment". Lemme play the gd game without your stupid vision of some space themed universe.

All you space investors think ma is protecting you and your money. No, all they care about is their vision of being a platform for other companies and them being the big dog providing the platform. Its been that way since alpha and it continues.

Its annoying and its also cool, its the thing that makes games fun. Like when you play anno and its only fun while you struggle, once everything runs, you restart.

There wont be a huge change cuz its tjis games vision but dont expect ma to protect your stupid space pixels, they change their mind, your "investements" mean shit to them
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Agressiveness doesnt make your points better or more convincing.
Yes mindark infact cares about making money, hence why they can not afford to make players distrust their virtual economy.
Moving markets are normal.
Destroying an entire branch of entropias economy which is intertwined with others on so many levels would be unprecedented in entropia history and a story they would never get rid off into the future of the game.
Way to many players want to simplify for convenience and some may think that this increases opportunities for 'them' when in fact opportunities dont come from being everywhere all the time along with everyone else but rather from being at the right place and the right time when noone else is.
Being able to seek out opportunities is directly related to not swim with the stream but swim against it.
Yes you can run with the herd and try to be the alpha in it (which by nature only few can do) or you can just be smart and seek advantage where others are not.

Now you can go back to 'trash talk' other peoples 'investment' while forgetting that when we talk about service the largest investment isnt money but infact time.
 
John B Knight said:
Agressiveness doesnt make your points better or more convincing.
Yes mindark infact cares about making money, hence why they can not afford to make players distrust their virtual economy.
Moving markets are normal.
Destroying an entire branch of entropias economy which is intertwined with others on so many levels would be unprecedented in entropia history and a story they would never get rid off into the future of the game.
Way to many players want to simplify for convenience and some may think that this increases opportunities for 'them' when in fact opportunities dont come from being everywhere all the time along with everyone else but rather from being at the right place and the right time when noone else is.
Being able to seek out opportunities is directly related to not swim with the stream but swim against it.
Yes you can run with the herd and try to be the alpha in it (which by nature only few can do) or you can just be smart and seek advantage where others are not.

Now you can go back to 'trash talk' other peoples 'investment' while forgetting that when we talk about service the largest investment isnt money but infact time.
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Not true, they destroyed whole economy by switching to 2.0 loot, also destroyed people who invested in hangars, land plots and many other things like compet. Don't lie.

If you get mad and leave game, nobody will care literally, mindark will care even less as the past actions has shown.

Price of your ship are decided by yourself, if you paid 500k ped for it, it is your issue, and only yours, mindark does not care how much you paid for it.

Same logic applies to weapons and other items. They do not care how big the markup is, all investments in this game are high risk, as they are directly controlled by MA which is not really the most excellent and stable Swedish company. There is no certification or any other oversight over their business, that proves there is no insider trading or investor scams.
 
Sulje said:
Not true, they destroyed whole economy by switching to 2.0 loot, also destroyed people who invested in hangars, land plots and many other things like compet. Don't lie.

If you get mad and leave game, nobody will care literally, mindark will care even less as the past actions has shown.

Price of your ship are decided by yourself, if you paid 500k ped for it, it is your issue, and only yours, mindark does not care how much you paid for it.

Same logic applies to weapons and other items. They do not care how big the markup is, all investments in this game are high risk, as they are directly controlled by MA which is not really the most excellent and stable Swedish company. There is no certification or any other oversight over their business, that proves there is no insider trading or investor scams.
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all the 1.0 gear is still there and being used, some more effectively in certain areas of the game then 2.0 gear, so thats a false statement.
As pointed out earlier in the thread hangars got replaced by privateers and hangar owners also got tp fees paid for the time of the switch - yes privateers were in value lower then at their highpoint as have been many other things but still higher atm then hangars on their introduction.
I bought my mothership directly from mindark so you dont need to worry about that ;)
Compet deeds were infact a failure and yet they still trade ingame without functionality to this day and people make money with them.
None of your examples is anywhere near as severe as what i pointed out, because you forget the one reason where mindark acts fastest of all - when they loose money and guess what happens if they give near free universal transport ? Guess how much less auction fees for interplanetary transport will get paid, how much less 7ped station tp fees will get paid, how much planet partners will loose out in revenue from crafting when everyone starts crafting at the main market planet - and who collects those fees ? Good luck talking mindark and planet partners out of money.
 
John B Knight said:
In short to solve flight availability:
1.Summon rights for pilots
2.Guestlist maintenance for pilots
3.Unlimited warpdrives for capital ships (put them on token trader for 6+rares and 200k+ tokens) or an alternate warpdrive bp that can craft drives from common ressources at an overall higher tt cost to allow availability at all times without prices going through the roof
4. Cargo missions
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allow me to add one more thing, now we can see autonomous cars and busses all around the world and from this i suggest an automatic scheduled trip set by a specific hour and a specific stations, and leave the players the choice to make the trip with whim they want to if are 2 MS scheduled for same hour, random flights can be made but the scheduled ones need to be set one day prior and be accessed via a terminal or via global event list where can be seen all the trips available for the next 2-5 days or even more

ofc the MS cannot be used if is scheduled, limiting the use for a half day, or idk a specific timeframe, being unable to be used outside the time frame is reserved for this activity and like any other interaction if u dont have the fuel or the warp drives set to be sufficient for the entire trip simply is not going to work being stuck for the duration of the reserved time frame until someone from pilot team or even a customer is deciding to refill it
 
tBANNA said:
allow me to add one more thing, now we can see autonomous cars and busses all around the world and from this i suggest an automatic scheduled trip set by a specific hour and a specific stations, and leave the players the choice to make the trip with whim they want to if are 2 MS scheduled for same hour, random flights can be made but the scheduled ones need to be set one day prior and be accessed via a terminal or via global event list where can be seen all the trips available for the next 2-5 days or even more

ofc the MS cannot be used if is scheduled, limiting the use for a half day, or idk a specific timeframe, being unable to be used outside the time frame is reserved for this activity and like any other interaction if u dont have the fuel or the warp drives set to be sufficient for the entire trip simply is not going to work being stuck for the duration of the reserved time frame until someone from pilot team or even a customer is deciding to refill it
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I really hope that at some point those arrivial/departure displays in various locations will become the norm with spaceports on each planet and players able to pick their flights in advance - just sign up to one and buy the ticket from terminal and get an automatic boarding notification or summon when their flight is going. Mindark build the basic concept for plenty of 'trains/busses' as well as 'taxis' and if its about conveniency then this is where it should occur and not by removing a sector of the economy.
But hey if the space haters 'win' and mindark decides to buy out players who spent a decade of their life believing that mindark was serious about space - if they pay what tierupgraders got i will go home with well above a million peds for useless skills - as if that ever where to happen ;)
 
Turn ship deeds into ship shares, 1 share = 10 ped invested into SI, create automated "bus" lines trough universe problem solved.
 
Weve had this talk before jbk, like 10y ago. Not interested again. Wish you all the best tho, love your service, but space is annyoing to my game play. We all understand ma, the vision etc. Lets not open this can a millionth time :)
 
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