SPACE TRAVEL BLUES - "What's the Solution?"

[Dextar]

Well ... I don't think it's a situation of can't work it out, as much as it is when to work it out (now anyway), and then, renting or leasing may not be the way to go, even though it would seem perhaps a good option given that there are investors with more than one hangar.



***

Well can't as in haven't in many months. It just seems counter intuitive to place a choke point on traveling to places like CND and CP and any of the new planets.

I understand that just adding more hangars can mean alot of P.O.ed current Hangar owners being that it dilutes their investment. But there really needs to be a system of travel that allows folks to move off planet without spending an arm and a leg to do so and they should not have to book passage months in advance.

My feeling is that the price of a ticket should be low enough a noob can afford it without sweating for 20 days or depositing next months food budget, yet still allow the pilots/hangar owners to make a decent profit for their trouble. MA can adjust these costs easy enough by regulating the decay and fuel requirements. Not sure how hard it is to recode these factors but I hope such has been taken into consideration with the coming Cry Engine update.

If MA does not alleviate the "choke point" all space travel has to deal with currently I feel any New Planets will suffer. Fast Cheap Travel is vital to a working economy.

I know one of the things that drew me into EU was being a pilot of a space ship. I grew up watching moon launches live on TV and I dreamed of flying in Space when I became an adult. (Curse you NASA for quiting on the moon shots) Now all I can hope for is being a Pilot in virtual Worlds. However MA has got the system so constricted ATM it requires more than the price of a new Car in RL just to be a pilot in this game.

Something is wrong with that formula IMHO.


Dex

 

[xWandererx]

Now all I can hope for is being a Pilot in virtual Worlds. However MA has got the system so constricted ATM it requires more than the price of a new Car in RL just to be a pilot in this game.

Something is wrong with that formula IMHO.


Dex

think thats called inflation - nuthin to do with MA's formula.....

 

[aridash]

i cant really see a viable soluton other than reducing the cost of travel, ideally link to the weight/number of passengers. cheaper to fly means more traffic. make it possible for pilots to fly either way with 1 or 2 passengers will increase turn around.

more hangers will just mean more pilots waiting. renting means no flexibility in cost of flights as tenant pilots are forced to cover costs. TP return would cut half pilots revenue and they'll just charge more to go up. Works with CP because the decay/oil costs are so much lower. which sort of goes make to the first point and proves it.

 

[Dextar]

think thats called inflation - nuthin to do with MA's formula.....

Well there is a formula that MA has something to do with as far as Hangars go.

In RL; at least in the US; the government does not prevent anyone who wants to risk the capital to start a new airline or cruise line. Sure they have rules and regs you must adhere to but they won't stop you from making the attempt.

In EU I can't say "well I want to build a new Hangar near the New Oxford Teleporter, I'll just buy the land and build it and run trips to CND and CP and any new planets." The option is not currently ingame to do so.

So the forumla is X number of hangars on Calypso and X is a static number for quite some time.

So of course those existing hangars would go up in price as more and more people want to travel.

MA can change the number of hangars on Calypso which would change the market value for hangars.

The question is: "Will they?"

Dex

 

[TimUnleashed]

Fantastic post MS9 - I believe you've covered all the issues well.

I like Einstein's idea the most. His idea of the hangar as an investment is to me akin to a land area as an investment:

a) I don't have a problem with pilots earning money while they sleep. Anyone who does should also have a problem with land owners earning money while they sleep.

b) Of course, if you just bought it and then never had to do anything, that would be a bit wrong, but if you had to maintain the ship and hangar, just like a land owner has to maintain his land, then it would be fair and very easy to manage.


I also think that part of the problem sometimes for pilots is the flow of traffic. If it's a time when everyone wants to go TO CND, then all the pilots end up at CND, and it's hard for all the people who still want to go, to get a flight from Calypso! I think adding teleporters would kill business a fair bit, but a pilot should have the option of flying BACK somewhere for free with no passengers as long as it's within 1 minute of landing or something.

Anyway, well done MS9. I'll try to +rep you, but I don't like my chances

 

[Zib Black Onyx]

good post.

Someone replied with a great suggestion...

make the ship decay/fuel usage relative to the passengers carried.

this is semi realistic - the more cargo the more fuel is used heh

The biggest problem right now with the system is the need to have a full ship.

Flying alone should cost next to nothing for the ship owner... fuel and decay prices are added per additional seat filled.

surely this couldnt be that hard to implement??

 

[Richard Devil]

I also think that part of the problem sometimes for pilots is the flow of traffic. If it's a time when everyone wants to go TO CND, then all the pilots end up at CND, and it's hard for all the people who still want to go, to get a flight from Calypso!

I addressed that issue on page 2

 

[andy5579]

Very interesting, thankyou I believe that it was a lot better when MA allowed the renting of hangars to others-It meant that the pilots were on a lot more of the time, and it was easier to find a flight. It did sometimes cause a bit of problems if a renter was abusive, but I wish MA would bring that feature back...
Frankenberry-NBK Legion

 

[Bulls]

I say remove all hangers and make it avalible trough the teleporters for the same 10 ped fee up and down from and to CP Calypso and CND.

Tobad for the pilots/hanger owners, but investments can decrease in value just as everything else.

I just hate the pilot mafia, its always overpriced, and you have to wait always. If not at some noob stuck at outpost who did register to fly (why do you stray off without TP chip anyway) or the pilot want to fill their flight. If I had a hangar I would not wait in line and just sell tickets for a fair price.

An other thing, RL transport methods use pre defined times and routes:

Make the Ships capacity to 15 persons and fly every 2 hours, so you can set your clock to a flight what will go then, full or not. Calypso->CP->CND->Calypso.
And you can stand ready for it, or otherwise wait another 2 hours.

 

[jjmatrix]

Well... I don't think there is much to add; great thread, great posts. I'll try...
I feel like MA/FPC is missing a big opportunity with Space Travel; this is supposed to be another main profession in EU/CP. We can easily see a lot of people willing to do it, for much to nothing in return. It shouldn't be that way; it should be developed further and make something nice out of it, interesting and fun.
I can only wish I could see more professions: mechanic for example, weapons and armor repair (with a tax paid to MA) etc.

There so many things that can be done to improve game play; let's hope Marco will take a hint and start deliver on some of the promises, including making Space Flight better.

 

[Biizle]

Setup 2-way TPs on CP and CND and let the ships do scenic flights around Calypso. Problem solved.

 

[Ozi]

Great article MindStar9

Two things MA could implement that would give relief to the current situation.

1) I like the idea previously mentioned of adding skills as then like crafting pilots will fly for less to get more flights happening and gain more skills

and

2) move CP, or at least stop pilots dropping people at CP on the way to Caplyso. I was a pilot for a few months so soon saw how things worked. Pilots fly from Calypso with 4 passengers, drop 2 at CP then drop 2 at CND. Then they want to fly back with 4. Hence the bottleneck and big queues of pilots at CND.
Anyone else here or at MA who has passed primary school maths who can see the problem ?????????

 

[Serica]

It will be interesting to see what changes MA make, with the introduction of CryEngine and the new planets.

Firstly to address some earlier comments:

... but what does th 5. or 6. pilot in line does ? Wait 4 hours till the line drops to him ?...

In a word... yes. And grateful if only having to wait 4 hrs too.
I've waited up to 9 hrs for my turn to sell, when there has been 2 or 3 other pilots ahead of me to fly down.
This is why, generally, I stop flying to CND once the European pilots start to come online.

Has anyone tried a charter service? With a fee based on how quickly you want up to where you are going. One price for the whole ship. cheaper price if you set it up a few days in advanced more if you want to leave within the hour.

What do you all think?

Charter services are already available. On several occasions I have come online in the wee small hours before dawn to fly pre-booked groups up to CND for events etc.
All pilots offer 'VIP' fares - which are essentially for booking multiple seats. Usually the average cost/seat for this is less than the pilot's 'per seat' rate.

And finally, to address a comment by MS9 :

... Availability of pilots may give the impression that there aren’t enough available, but some say in addition to this perceived lack of pilots, that poor business practice is also to blame. Specifically, that pilots should be amenable to flying with only 2-3 passengers from CND to the planet once in a while instead of waiting for a full ship; especially when there are others waiting on Calypso to get a flight up to either CND or CP, but is this fair to the pilots?...

My personal opinion is that it is fair to the pilots.
On average, 1 of 4 passengers up will be going to CP. So, filling every flight down is well-nigh impossible - and insisting on doing so usually means that the first passengers have had to log before the ship can fill. It's not unusual to watch some pilots have to sell the same seats several times before - hours later - finally flying down. In the meantime, there have been people waiting in Twins for a flight up. I don't see that as fair to the passengers.
Its a balance really, to me.
If the passenger flow is really slow, then I'll happily fly down with whatever passengers I can collect in a reasonable timeframe - as long as I at least cover costs on the round trip.
Some days, this has been ONE. Other days, there are people asking for flights down often enough that I can wait for 4, still within a reasonable timeframe.
And no - when it is MY choice to fly down part empty, I don't ask passengers to pay more for the privilege.
If otoh, it is the passenger in a hurry, then I offer a fair vip price.

I would welcome some sort of offically approved rental system.
To be fair tho, it should not encourage breaching the EULA by having players using multiple avatars - as the old 'system' did.
I can't say I'm too keen on multiple players using the same avatar either - tho strictly speaking that is not a breach of the EULA. I just like to know that the avatar I interact with today, has the same person at the keyboard as the one I talked to last time.

------------------------------------------------------------------

For those who dont know me - I've been piloting for nearly a year now.

Due to my timezone, I provide flights to CP and CND whenever I can be online from 21:00 to 09:00 MA time, 7 days a week. (That's 7am - 7pm local time.)
Outside of that, I'm happy to run VIP flights up to CP, provided I dont have other specific committments (events etc).

I've always worked within the pilot line system, tho at times I agree it can be incredibly frustrating.

I've also seen the system from the player's side, especially trying to get a flight down from CND after events - and giving up and waiting til the following day cos I just couldn't stay awake long enough for the flight to fill.
In fact, this experience was part of the reason I went into piloting when a friend's hangar became available to rent.

The hangar owner and I are in this together for the long term. We see EU/FCP as having a bright future, and we want to be a part of that. If it becomes possible to fly to other planets, we hope to be able to make whatever investments are needed be part of that too.

As a minimum tho, I'd like some changes by MA/FCP to recognise that (some) hangar owners are PLAYERS too.
So:

• an outside crafting machine, auctioneer, and storage in Twins would be great

• An auctioneer in the CND control room would be appreciated too

• Piloting profession/skill would be fantastic - possibly linked to more efficient use of the ships. Piloting Profession could include Intelligence, Alertness, Dexterity, Aim, Machinery, Mechanics, Electronics, Engineering, Concentration, and Pilot Ship skills

 

[MindStar9]

Thank you Serica ... your post is very enlightening from a pilot's perspective, and I have always found you to be professional in every way, and very amenable to short notice with regard to VIP flights. I would highly recommend your services any day, and am sure that I will continue to be a customer in the future.

I must say ... I am incredibly grateful that this thread carries a most constructive theme given its hot topic, which usually promotes a bitch session in most threads. I popped into Planet Calypso earlier this evening (for me), and did a little crafting run after being inspired by Marco's announcement today.

While there were no ubers or ATH's ... I did quite well, but ... what was especially sweet in addition to this crafting run, is that a few people dropped in on me via PM and made the comment that (in fact) they too were glad that this thread didn't become a bitch session, but rather a constructive process that lends itself to some critical thinking about this hot topic, and some great suggestions for making our space travel more efficient and amenable to our needs.

For this ... I deeply thank you for keeping it on track in this respect, and appreciate that while experiences are unique, they can also offer food for thought with regard to where we can go from here. I love it when the community comes together and brainstorms!

 

[Sneaky B'stard]

The way things are going it wont be long before MA introduce Limited ships !!!!

 

[nonosapiens]

travel cnd

Hi,

If can come back from cnd with a tp, personally i travel more.
I go meaby 1 time/ month in CND because i hate wait few hours to come back.
Specially sunday morning.
I go 5-6 times / month to cp because when decide come back, need only 10 peds and 1 sec.
Ok pilot lose the "travel cnd to calypso but i'm sure many ppl travel more to cnd.
If put a tp in cnd, we have more pilot in twins, dont need wait to go cp/cnd.
How many time you decide to travel, you go twins, dont find a pilot and you change yr idea.

Sure i'm travel each week to cnd with a tp.
-Now : 1 travel up + 1 back cnd = 2/month
- With Tp = 4 travel up/month = 4/month

Pilot win to and dont need wait 1 hour for full ship

Sorry for bad english but need go work, i'm late

Good luck

+ rep

 

[Grampa]

a simple solution

Why not just give the pilots the option of logging off and relogging as pilotA on CND or pilotB at twin? That way pilots can go where they are needed. They could still do it in the same rotation as they are doing it now and no-one need suffer. Keep it simple. 3's
Grampa

 

[Kimmi]

yeah... the situation was much better back in the days when I where a pilot

 

[Usurper]

Thankyou, realy nice article!

Though it didn't cover the single-spaceport-instead-of-scattered-hangars option, a little bird has sung into my other ear.

 

[Hellfire]

I'm not a pilot and I rarely need to fly, but it seems like it would be very easy for huge improvements to be made to the current system, people have posted several different solutions that I think would work well, I'm not sure why MA has left it as it is for so long

 

[Imperious]

Could someone please enlighten me? I appologise for my ignorance, maybe I have not been playing long enough to know or just always accepted it as a fact, but why is there a pilot line on CND? who made that up? is that MA's rule or a rule between all pilots?
I asked a pilot about it and he said he didn't know, that there is just a pilot line and thats how things work.

Do all pilots charge the same rate flying back down from CND? I know not all of them charge the same rates flying up to CND. Only been to CND a handful of times not very recently, do just about all my flying to CP frequently.

Shouldn't it be an open competition like how it is back on Calypso? If pilot A wants to charge 25 ped per seat and pilot B 20 ped per seat. Wouldn't that encourage avatars to fly back down earlier and more often, if they can get flights at a cheaper rate?

So based on a pilot line. Pilot A charges 25 per seat and all avatars need to fill that ship up 1st, before pilot B can charge there rate. But if avatars know pilot B will charge less, do they just wait for that next pilot in line. Or do all pilots charge that same rate flying back down.

Even so I still think it should be an open competition it would encourage more avatars to fly down more often and decrease wait times back down and back up, since the pilots would be finding more to go back up to CND/CP. and depending on how much less they charge for flight back down, the pilot could maybe increase there rate going back to compensate. Having pilots going up and down more often would certainly decrease waiting times, and I don't think pilots would lose out on too many peds, because they would be flying more often (more passengers per day than normal) and could adjust prices when needed (based on lack of current pilots @ one planet or too many).

 

[Jet Black]

my view of solution:
1. replace all hangars with charge tps,the owner of tp gets his money while happily logged off.
or replacing with only one tp and dividing the money on all the owners.

2. while we already are removing the visual aspect of flying (and since there is no actual flying gameplay) also since many players care less about the sci-fi theme and overall gameplay of EU (refer to my thread here https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...127115-what-if-entropia-universe-not-rce.html)
I say replace entire 3D EU with a screen of buttons and scrolls where you select activity,decay,gear,and click the big button[HUNT] [MINE] [Move To Server CND] [Craft] and so on

 

[Euhura]

Well We need to make Space Flight not only faster & cheaper but also more fun....

I suggest - We scrap the Space seats and have a giant Sausage....

So basically - the ship takes off and it pulls a giant Sausage behind it:

The sausage can carry up to 8 people and depending on your 'Hold onto the Sausage Skills' or Sausage points - which you gain each time you fly - you either are able to hold onto the sausage or fall back down thus having to get a ride on the next sausage.....

What you think - it be fun - just like those banana boat things you ride on In benidorm Spain.

What you think.....

MF.

That, my friend, is, without a doubt, the MOST GENIUS IDEA EVER!!! I only regret that I can only + rep you once!

Could someone please enlighten me? I appologise for my ignorance, maybe I have not been playing long enough to know or just always accepted it as a fact, but why is there a pilot line on CND? who made that up? is that MA's rule or a rule between all pilots?
I asked a pilot about it and he said he didn't know, that there is just a pilot line and thats how things work.

If you are at a store that does not have a section set aside for a line, and you are waiting for the next available clerk, do you get upset if someone cuts in front of you as soon as one becomes available? I think that it has been culturally programmed into us that if someone is there before us then we wait our turn. MA did not set up this rule, and I don't think that the pilots got together to discuss it. I think that it is just one of those customs that naturally evolves whenever people get together.

 

[Imperious]

If you are at a store that does not have a section set aside for a line, and you are waiting for the next available clerk, do you get upset if someone cuts in front of you as soon as one becomes available? I think that it has been culturally programmed into us that if someone is there before us then we wait our turn. MA did not set up this rule, and I don't think that the pilots got together to discuss it. I think that it is just one of those customs that naturally evolves whenever people get together.

You can put the idea into whatever context you want. For example:

You don't have to wait to shop at store A to buy a loaf of bread, you can go to Store B that sells the loaf of bread for cheaper.
AND/OR
When you shop in 1 store or market, they usually sell the same product offered by different manufactures, then its up to the buyer to decide from who to buy.

Good riddence to the pilot line @ CND
IMHO, I think that could solve some(not all) problems we have now, would be the easiest way to fix the situation and MA doesnt have to do anything!

 

[Tesla Coil]

More hangers

I wanna find a estateclaim of a hanger in my huntingloot...

Thanks in advance MA and Lootius.

 

[iulrorck]

ACTUAL SYSTEM SUCK IN MY MIND

tp is not the solution

how a pilot can wait for 4 ppl if they bring 4 at cp/cnd

you can take more than you put that s the problem

initially the rate was 20 for flying up as flying down

then it goes at 25 for flying down with 3ppl only instead of 4 and make the thing better

but now they want 25X4 for flying down and cry when another pilot is cheaper

they cry too when a pilot sell just a vip for nice price for fly down fast

that the bad pilot side


i m flying dometimes using the avatar of my friend ( sophies soba bark ) and sometime the waiting time is insane ppl are glad finnaly pay 50-60 vip for fly fast specially if they can split in 2

wait 2h for fly down is just a shame pilot shoud assume and think more to customer than just ped

 

[aia]

Problem: Greed. Pilots doesn't want to take off until all 4 seats are taken.

Solution: If there is a "pilot line" (more than one pilot waiting for passengers), leave as soon as the ship as three (3) persons are booked, unless of course the fourth person shows up with the third person.

This would probably make travels smoother, and it will solve a bit of the problem with no pilots in twin peaks due to all pilots are waiting at CND.

A few other comments: The land area system was created with having land owners offline, the hangars are not. If you compare hangar owners with land owner, heck, then I'd like to do afk mindforce skilling, I want to gain scanning skills while asleep using the TT scanner, and so on.

As for the lending system: The old "lending system" was bad because it practically forced lenders to break the EULA (by creating a second avatar). Also, it was because of the lending system the hangar prices went threefold. And then threefold again, because of the "planets".

Skills for pilots and for the passengers(!) wouln't be a bad idea. Maybe a system, where you don't need skills for basic travel (like CND and CP), but higher skills by pilots and passengers are required and give advantages if "dogfights" are implemented. Though, it needs to be considered carefully, since it can be unbalanced if a few high-level avatars who already have advantages of top skills, unique items and hangars get even furter ahead.

 

[Fforest]

Would airports work?

A very difficult process to change as it is so entrenched within EU under its current format.

If this was a 'blank canvas' exercise, I would like to see some sort of airport type operation.

Have two or three airports where pilots could operate. This would eliminate the requirement for hangars as there would be parking space for all ships. There could be a fixed price, scheduled service from MA while ship owners could run more flexible pricing and timetables. In the spirit of making things accessible to others, it would be nice to see a variety of ships with smaller seating arrangements and lower running costs.

Any move away from the current system will be seen to disadvantage existing operators and their investment somehow, but the hardest decisions aren't necessarily the most popular ones.

That is my one penny's worth. It would have been my tuppence worth, but the credit crunch is really hitting home!!

Fforest

As a final comment, I never have a problem getting to or from CND/CP. If there isn't a ship flying when I want to go, there are plenty of other things I can do in this wonderful universe of ours until one comes along

 

[Moonfish]

SpaceFlights Solution...

Between us we I'm sure we can find 2-3 better ways for the system to work.

If marco does alter the system - he will only decide on one system and I'm sure not keep altering it every 2-5 months to please us all.

So we need to find the best system for both pilots & passengers that is simple affordable, enjoyable. & not too expensive.

We all have personal experiences from either Piloting or flying as a passenger (well 95% of people). Those experiences are wonderful to here an offer insight to the experience, which is important - Sure the experience, the mess up crashes, the bugs, the mistakes on CP and the pilot lines are part of the experience for good or bad - but we need to come up with 1-2 systems that marco can read and think yes this works....

The best idea so far is the Sausage idea - where you get towed behind the Spaceship on a giant 8 seater sausage - but well I'm biased on that.

Scap the Hanger name - We can call them Bangers..

--------------------
Experience
When i was a pilot - I would stand on CND and play Pac-man on another PC - other pilots watched a DVD or did other things unrelated to EU.

I once stood there for over 9 hours with out a flight - Sure i was stupid - but to justify the time and if I had only made 20ped profit to fly up - I'm not flying back for 20 - 30 ped lost.. A personal experience we all have them.

--------------------
The system needs to be automated - banks can do it - Auction does it - shops do it - Why not Spaceship hangers....

The event system sells tickets, why can't hangers or space ships.

• You go to the terminal
• You Buy a Ticket - just like the event system
• You choose your destination
• That lets you inside the Ship (you don't need a pilot - come on do teleports have people in them)
• When 4 people sit down the ships boosters start
• We hear a countdown
• blast off
• A cool movie sequence starts lasting 20-40 seconds
• You arrive
• The ship then becomes available on CND on a screen
• Hanger 2 - Deck2 - 4 Seats available
• Hanger owners can set there costs via there hanger terminals and obviously they have to be repaired like Shop keepers do & filled with Oil - just like adding fertilizer to LA's - or they don't work or don't show up on the Flight terminal screen

Sure there are a few miner adjustments in the above and complications due to different destinations - maybe you set your ship to only fly to say CP - You can call the ship back via the banger terminal or it stays on CP and is listed on the flight terminal.

CP is a problem - as its hell to find things and there is a TP - so maybe CP will have to be looked at more or add a 10 ped tp up as well.

Hummmm,, 2 pecs
Mf.

 

[fo0d]

A quick note: I have never used space travel in PE so i really shouldnt be free to add my 2 cents to the conversation, but I'm on a forum and by using this colour and a small font my guilt dissappaers and I fell better about spewing random ideas on something I know nothing about.

I've read the whole thread out of boredom and I have come to have this thought:

1. All pilots register to a TrT and chose a time slot in which they would like to offer their service(Travel Terminal)
2. Potential passengers select the date and time they would like to travel from a table of available flight times and pay for the service in advance. ( we could consider a few ped's tax for MA contribution)
3. Passengers are requested to find themselves on board of a given shuttle at a certain hour
4. If the passenger is not on the flight at the certain hour, a pilot has the option to allow someone else to join the fair and keep the deposit made from the absent passenger and the new passenger
5. If for any reason it is the pilot to be at fault (eg. giving birth IRL) the pilot refunds all passengers with a 10% penalty.

I believe that this would somewhat solve the issues I have been reading about as it would:

• Guarantee an income to the pilots
• Guarantee a precise service to the passengers
• Would creat a money flow to MA (through the tax) and allow competitions between pilots as they can also decide on the time scheduling and pricing
• Pilots have a guarantee departure and return for each flight. And so do users.