Spartoline Freeing the Sweat Market/Slaves

Pyhä Antero

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Ok so your saying PR by Sweaters is a free lunch and the time they put in to collect it?
If they have freetime they can go to do some work in real life and deposit it to the game. All in all, the concept of Entropia's free to play is working just fine at the moment.
 

Spart

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I don't think it's anger towards sweaters so much as irritation about all the threads calling for increasing costs to non-sweating depositors, irritation about hearing about the need for upping the price on the free items anyone can get in game, etc. Said it once, will say it again. There is a demand for ME, and a market for it. If sweaters want to make more off of their sweat, they should make the ME and sell it themselves. If they have to deposit to mine up the nexus to do that, great. If they can figure out some way of doing that without depositing - that's great too.

Maybe MA should make it so that you can only sweat stuff in lootable pvp zones? That would increase the demand on sweat, and the reasons people would be willing to pay more for it?
That may work toss the baby out with the bath water.. good idea..
Horse captured by Spart.
 

Spart

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If they have freetime they can go to do some work in real life and deposit it to the game. All in all, the concept of Entropia's free to play is working just fine at the moment.
Yeah I'm going to tell my friend in the nursing home Nino Padrino who is stuck to a mobility device. He should go out and work so he can play this game and be sociable. :scratch2:
You want to tell him?
My Friend Nino. I call him Padrino.
He said he was going to pinch the Boat for my Native friends.
Happy 4th.
 
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Aliana

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Well it seems to me to be anger against sweaters, both of us have been around the game long enough to know threads like these pop up regular as clockwork, i think its kindof cute in a way. :p
From a economic point of view sweat is not free, peoples time has value, and not only economic value.
I wonder if the people complaining about sweaters also secretly curse the employees of the shops they chose to buy their goods from, or the places they eat out at, i mean after all they only bring their time to the table and steal the hard earned cash these people generate so they can participate in the economy themselves?
The way i see it is, if the sweaters dont like the price of sweat, dont sweat, if non-sweating depositors dont like the price of sweat then dont buy it, supply and demand, the non sweating depositor always has the choice to buy oil instead and use a vehicle? :)

If people want to discuss the cost to play i understand that, but why not look at the real drains on the economy, we could start with MA (and by extension CLD holders) taking 27% of everything day in day out, is this value for money? maybe im simplifying but isnt this 27% considered pre-tax profit and higher than the industry average?
Well, at least I can agree with you on the sweat thing. If you don't like what your getting from sweat go do something else. My approach to low ped is to sweat. At least I get a little more evade, agility and concentration from it. I've even been lucky enough to get 2K from a mature Daik when it ran dry. My daughter's approach is to go do something else completely outside of EU and wait for me to HOF and give her ped. lol

I think the concepts of CLD holders being a drain on the economy depends on a few factors. As I understand it, the ped received by CLD holders is 50% of the company's profits. If I am correct, that money is generated by decay. Not by the loot pool. Even the auction fees, if I've been under the right impression go to the loot pool. So, if that money comes from decay that would be pulled out of the economy anyway, wouldn't the CLDs actually be helpful to the economy if the CLD holders are using those funds to supplement deposits? Something like the company giving the participants and opportunity to return 50% of the decay taken back into the economy? I'm sure some of it is being withdrawn, but certainly not all of it. I only have one pitiful lonely CLD. It would take what would seem like forever to actually add up to enough to withdraw so onto the ped card and into ammo and repairs it goes.

Hugs,
Aliana
 

Spart

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Well, at least I can agree with you on the sweat thing. If you don't like what your getting from sweat go do something else. My approach to low ped is to sweat. At least I get a little more evade, agility and concentration from it. I've even been lucky enough to get 2K from a mature Daik when it ran dry. My daughter's approach is to go do something else completely outside of EU and wait for me to HOF and give her ped. lol

I think the concepts of CLD holders being a drain on the economy depends on a few factors. As I understand it, the ped received by CLD holders is 50% of the company's profits. If I am correct, that money is generated by decay. Not by the loot pool. Even the auction fees, if I've been under the right impression go to the loot pool. So, if that money comes from decay that would be pulled out of the economy anyway, wouldn't the CLDs actually be helpful to the economy if the CLD holders are using those funds to supplement deposits? Something like the company giving the participants and opportunity to return 50% of the decay taken back into the economy? I'm sure some of it is being withdrawn, but certainly not all of it. I only have one pitiful lonely CLD. It would take what would seem like forever to actually add up to enough to withdraw so onto the ped card and into ammo and repairs it goes.

Hugs,
Aliana
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Spart

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Well it seems to me to be anger against sweaters, both of us have been around the game long enough to know threads like these pop up regular as clockwork, i think its kindof cute in a way. :p
From a economic point of view sweat is not free, peoples time has value, and not only economic value.
I wonder if the people complaining about sweaters also secretly curse the employees of the shops they chose to buy their goods from, or the places they eat out at, i mean after all they only bring their time to the table and steal the hard earned cash these people generate so they can participate in the economy themselves?
The way i see it is, if the sweaters dont like the price of sweat, dont sweat, if non-sweating depositors dont like the price of sweat then dont buy it, supply and demand, the non sweating depositor always has the choice to buy oil instead and use a vehicle? :)

If people want to discuss the cost to play i understand that, but why not look at the real drains on the economy, we could start with MA (and by extension CLD holders) taking 27% of everything day in day out, is this value for money? maybe im simplifying but isnt this 27% considered pre-tax profit and higher than the industry average?
We can look at this.
I haven't pondered this as long as i would like. But seems to me that there has to be a % That people recycle. seems to me to be a way to keep the caste system in place. Typical Barbaric stuff.. for a futuristic world/s.

Seems to me that the more people deposit and play the better it would be for CLD holders there share would grow larger. Just to trade them is a short sighted win for the trader. Would be in the cld's holders best interest to get as many people in and depoing.. only way to do that is dump the wheat in and start sifting out the chaff. That means #'s of new players.
I'm sure a Large % of what they earn gets cycled back into the system.
Personally I thought CLDs was a rather quick fix and a short sited idea. But hey I'm a nobody.

Horse Captured by Spart.
 
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Aeris_is_back

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Im not really interested in the OP's mission but what you and some others seem to think and imply does offend me a little. I dont know where this idea comes from that there are millions of these sweaters not depositing but "sticking their fingers" in your pedcard. If you ever visit one of the places people sweat there dont seem to be that many of them, and those that are sweating seem to me to be just people who are not able to deposit much and sweat as some kind of social/cheap skilling activity, a way to appear busy in game while socialising with friends in between their deposits.
I also find it quite funny that you are making comments like these, arent you in the soc whos main reason for being IS to actually stick their fingers in other peoples pedcard by looting them in PVP space, a pirate soc, one generally hated on this forum and said by many to be nothing but thieves? I'm not one of these people, i think the pirates add something to the game in a roleplaying sortof way, but it does make me laugh the way you seem to view people stealing from you considering the context. Or is it that you are allowed to steal because you pay for the privilege, but this seems like a strange position to take? And unless you buy ME/sweat i dont even see how from a economic point of view these few sweaters have any impact on you, let alone are "sticking their fingers" in your pedcard or bank account.

I have already proven I Deposit a modest amount of money each month. Part of that has gone to all the faps I blown on newbies at Nea's alone in the last three weeks 6 t20's 5 t15's.

Newbies who sweat are no concern with respect to this thread, I enjoy helping them. people who do not contribute to the game "deposit" and feel they are owed something need to be dragged in to the center of Twin and shot.

I feel the exposure new players have to much older ones is important. I like to answer questions and help to oppose some of the lies I see being told to newbs.

Yeah I pop up in space every now and then Kill a handful of people and move on. its normal for mmorpgs to include some sort of lootable pvp area.

I would find it hard to define me as a pirate as much as I like to take part in such activity's from time to time I would sooner organize raids on mothershps, develop strats and tactics for overcoming defenses, and manage large numbers of people in a goal oriented environment. If mothershps ever become lootable I promise everybody will have reason to bitch and call me a pirate. I will apply what I learned running 40, 25, and 10 man raids in wow for years to EU and roll out a force nobody can defend them self against. I will destroy all of you, just not the kronan <3
 

Spart

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I have already proven I Deposit a modest amount of money each month. Part of that has gone to all the faps I blown on newbies at Nea's alone in the last three weeks 6 t20's 5 t15's.

Newbies who sweat are no concern with respect to this thread, I enjoy helping them. people who do not contribute to the game "deposit" and feel they are owed something need to be dragged in to the center of Twin and shot.

I feel the exposure new players have to much older ones is important. I like to answer questions and help to oppose some of the lies I see being told to newbs.

Yeah I pop up in space every now and then Kill a handful of people and move on. its normal for mmorpgs to include some sort of lootable pvp area.

I would find it hard to define me as a pirate as much as I like to take part in such activity's from time to time I would sooner organize raids on mothershps, develop strats and tactics for overcoming defenses, and manage large numbers of people in a goal oriented environment. If mothershps ever become lootable I promise everybody will have reason to bitch and call me a pirate. I will apply what I learned running 40, 25, and 10 man raids in wow for years to EU and roll out a force nobody can defend them self against. I will destroy all of you, just not the kronan <3
Oh now that sound like a demolition derby I would like to see..
Anti Pirate maneuvers maybe.. Armada Placements and movements.. Oh yeah Where is my space Howitzer? Stand off Command vessel? Space Horse's? Hey if there in the sea.. Y Not?
Captured by Spart
 

Falagor

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(...)
At least I get a little more evade, agility and concentration from it. I've even been lucky enough to get 2K from a mature Daik when it ran dry.
(...)
2k sweat from one Daikiba Mature? Not possible... since the introduction of "tools" for sweating whenever mob is sweatable - the amount of sweat on it is equal its max hp. Always! So Daiki Mature 70 hp = 70 sweat ;).
If it gets dry and left alone (not tureted, killed etc) it stays dry untill something kills it (or porbably untill major server reset i.e. update - but i am not sure about if even then).
If it was before the big War Titan crash then i can belive in it because it was possible (but very hard to do imho). Back then each mob had defined amount of succesfull pulls of 2-22 bottles (not sure exact number on Daiki Mature here but i guess it was something between 3 to 5 succ pulls). And it was possible to run outside the radar range of the mob and it got "reset" (condition was: no green dot in radar range of the mob). So drying and running away from it few times (quite plenty times) could lead to gathering 2k from one Daiki Mature but needed a lot of patience to do so :laugh:.

On topic:
why i think sweat will not go up in price no matter WHAT will happen now:
There were so many bugs that flooded sweat market in uncontrolled way that i hardly belive it is possible to reverse consequences of them in less than few years straight of really hard efforts. Bugs i am thinking off:
  • sweat border bug (before vu 10). People were able to trap mob on borders of two servers and sweat mob without any obstacles for hours. Mob did not get in bad state, was not able to hurt sweater, and what is worse: sometimes it got into "infinitve sweat mob" - it was possible to gather sweat from it untill someone came and killed it or server reset. So practically perfect afk sweater machine generating huge amounts of sweat each day.
  • mining sweat with Enmatter mining: for short time it was possible to actually mine sweat. Problem was that claim IV of Sweat was 2.00 to 2.99 TT value... this is 200k to 300k sweat bottles from one claim. Sure it took a lot of time to extract it and costed some decay on extractor but miner was mining pure markup. Bug was fixed in few days but imagine how much sweat got into the system and was never removed...
  • small birdies (chirpy, gibnib, fugabarba) not running away: it was possible to sweat dry any small birdie without any interruption. Mob did not run away and even did not move at all if not scared away by getting to close. There were thousands if not hundred of thousands of dry chirpies/gibnibs all around Calypso (mostly around Cape Corinth) and each had 10 to 80 sweat on it... similar "bug" to the first mentioned but at least it needed some interaction from player (in first case if lucky he coudl go afk for few hours gathering sweat all the time).

Of course the impact of vehicle and mindforce change is also significant but at least managed in some way by MA. But i guess most impact had those sweat bugs (espetially the mining one).

Disclaimer: those 500k i mentioned before are gathered all by myself legally without using any of the bugs. This is actually only small part of all sweat i have gathered in my gameplay time.


Even if you consider that influence of the bugs is gone by now consider this:
if person decides to sweat-dry-hunt a mob he will be getting 1sweat per 1hp of mob he hunts. Lets say he keeps his eco level at around 2.80 dmg/pec. Then dealing 1000 dmg costs him ~3.57ped.Then he gets loot. Lets say he is really unlucky and gets only 70% TT returns worth ~2.50ped.

To sum up:
cost: -3.57
loot: +2.50
sweat: 1k worth curently ~ +2.00

result: +0.93 profit + free skills in evasion, hunting and sweating ;).
And notice that longer logs show return rather close to 90% of TT than 70% which would result in +1.64 profit.

If players aproach is: "yeah but it is huge waste of time: sweating 1k is about 2 hours" then he should rather decide: "quit or deposit", than continue to sweat. If player thinks he can actually make huge profit by just sweating he should be warned that it is not likely to happen.

Dedicated sweater will never consider himself a slave :wise:.

Falagor
:bandit:

 

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I can Agree with Silly. I think it is a hoot really..:rolleyes:
But if MA thinks there getting something for free out of the hard core sweaters like some great advertizing or there getting A+ word of mouth/PR. They better look at the the word slave x2 and ponder.
*sigh* OK, I think it's time for a little Sweating history:

MA made Entropia almost 10 years ago. Their original design was based around a sci-fi "us vs the evil robots" on another planet that produced a type of "magic". That magic was mindforce. They designed the sweating system as 1/2 of the fuel (sweat+the mined resource force nexus)

The major use of mindforce from the beginning was always the TP chips. Now remember this was in a game that was Eudoria only. No other locations, planets, etc. and only 1/3 of the TPs we now have. (and no vehicles) the movement choices were run, swim or TP jump.

MA made sweat free to get because they knew the other 1/2 of the fuel had to be paid for, and this was a GREAT way to make a "try it before you buy it" system. Folks who couldn't/wouldn't deposit immediately had an ingame activity that could produce a few peds for them to buy their first equipment.

And did those first few peds come from MA as gifts? Hell no. They made sweat so low TT, that it was impossible to sweat enough and TT it at a level that negatively impacted MA's finances.

So the sweaters first peds came from other players. Mostly those who had already deposited. It was a great marketing move.

Years went by. Things changed. Amethera became the other continent. More TPs were added. Crysis came and the world was remade. Planets were born. Vehicles came.

Now Entropia still offers the "try it before you buy it" aspect. However, the demand for sweat, even with the addition of a few blueprints and other ways of using it, is still vastly reduced. Thus prices (again, almost exclusively determined by markup paid by players, not MA) are very low these days.

So, I repeat my comment. This "try it before you buy it" program built into an online game means one thing.

"Slave" is the stupidest word you can use to describe folks who are voluntarily playing an online game.

And no, the sweating aspect has exactly zero to do with PR in the sense that you are using it. The PR you are referring to gets folks to download the game. The sweating is the part that allows then to be active ingame before they spend their entertainment funds.
 

Aliana

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2k sweat from one Daikiba Mature? Not possible... since the introduction of "tools" for sweating whenever mob is sweatable - the amount of sweat on it is equal its max hp. Always! So Daiki Mature 70 hp = 70 sweat ;).
If it gets dry and left alone (not tureted, killed etc) it stays dry untill something kills it (or porbably untill major server reset i.e. update - but i am not sure about if even then).
If it was before the big War Titan crash then i can belive in it because it was possible (but very hard to do imho). Back then each mob had defined amount of succesfull pulls of 2-22 bottles (not sure exact number on Daiki Mature here but i guess it was something between 3 to 5 succ pulls). And it was possible to run outside the radar range of the mob and it got "reset" (condition was: no green dot in radar range of the mob). So drying and running away from it few times (quite plenty times) could lead to gathering 2k from one Daiki Mature but needed a lot of patience to do so :laugh:.
Please pardon my lack of clarity. I sweat the daik dry, killed it then looted a 2K ped hof from it. That was the end of sweating at least for a little while. :)

Hugs,
Aliana
 

Charlie Gloom

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*sigh* OK, I think it's time for a little Sweating history:

MA made Entropia almost 10 years ago. Their original design was based around a sci-fi "us vs the evil robots" on another planet that produced a type of "magic". That magic was mindforce. They designed the sweating system as 1/2 of the fuel (sweat+the mined resource force nexus)

The major use of mindforce from the beginning was always the TP chips. Now remember this was in a game that was Eudoria only. No other locations, planets, etc. and only 1/3 of the TPs we now have. (and no vehicles) the movement choices were run, swim or TP jump.

MA made sweat free to get because they knew the other 1/2 of the fuel had to be paid for, and this was a GREAT way to make a "try it before you buy it" system. Folks who couldn't/wouldn't deposit immediately had an ingame activity that could produce a few peds for them to buy their first equipment.

And did those first few peds come from MA as gifts? Hell no. They made sweat so low TT, that it was impossible to sweat enough and TT it at a level that negatively impacted MA's finances.

So the sweaters first peds came from other players. Mostly those who had already deposited. It was a great marketing move.

Years went by. Things changed. Amethera became the other continent. More TPs were added. Crysis came and the world was remade. Planets were born. Vehicles came.

Now Entropia still offers the "try it before you buy it" aspect. However, the demand for sweat, even with the addition of a few blueprints and other ways of using it, is still vastly reduced. Thus prices (again, almost exclusively determined by markup paid by players, not MA) are very low these days.

So, I repeat my comment. This "try it before you buy it" program built into an online game means one thing.

"Slave" is the stupidest word you can use to describe folks who are voluntarily playing an online game.

And no, the sweating aspect has exactly zero to do with PR in the sense that you are using it. The PR you are referring to gets folks to download the game. The sweating is the part that allows then to be active ingame before they spend their entertainment funds.
must spread rep. blah blah blah


Well said. :yup:
 

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*sigh* OK, I think it's time for a little Sweating history...
You should maybe add that the amount of sweat a single avatar could gather was limited in the beginning.
(don't remember exactly how low limit was, 2k in sweat gathering? less?)

It was clearly never meant to be funding ones entire gameplay - the reason the limit was removed was mostly because people kept making new avatars to dodge the limit, but this does not mean that sweating should be seen as regular source of income now.

And on a sidenote:
People seem to forget that in most countries the minimum wages per hour exceed a sweaters "income" by far.
And it is probably the WORST idea for making some PEDs ingame (if you can't/don't want to deposit), there are dozends of ways to make a PED or two, all of them are way more fun.


If you don't do it for socializing or the defense skills or a weird goal in sweat gathering skills (read: you enjoy sweating, but that means you don't really care for the monetary aspect), it is probably the most brain damaging activity ever.



Chewing glass shards while stabbing yourself repeatedly in the eye with the pointy end of a pencil is more fun. Much more fun.
 

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You should maybe add that the amount of sweat a single avatar could gather was limited in the beginning.
Yes, and other changes, such as how much you get from each mob, time taken to sweat, etc. have all been altered over the years.

However, I intentionally decided to skip that issue because I was already writing a long monologue. :laugh: And besides those minor adjustments are not relevant to the overall fact of the reason for sweatings existence.
 

Aeris_is_back

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(don't remember exactly how low limit was, 2k in sweat gathering? less?)
sweat cap was 50 points in concentration, back when the sweat camp was just a little north of pvp2.
 

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2k sweat from one Daikiba Mature? Not possible... since the introduction of "tools" for sweating whenever mob is sweatable - the amount of sweat on it is equal its max hp. Always! So Daiki Mature 70 hp = 70 sweat ;).
If it gets dry and left alone (not tureted, killed etc) it stays dry untill something kills it (or porbably untill major server reset i.e. update - but i am not sure about if even then).
If it was before the big War Titan crash then i can belive in it because it was possible (but very hard to do imho). Back then each mob had defined amount of succesfull pulls of 2-22 bottles (not sure exact number on Daiki Mature here but i guess it was something between 3 to 5 succ pulls). And it was possible to run outside the radar range of the mob and it got "reset" (condition was: no green dot in radar range of the mob). So drying and running away from it few times (quite plenty times) could lead to gathering 2k from one Daiki Mature but needed a lot of patience to do so :laugh:.

On topic:
why i think sweat will not go up in price no matter WHAT will happen now:
There were so many bugs that flooded sweat market in uncontrolled way that i hardly belive it is possible to reverse consequences of them in less than few years straight of really hard efforts. Bugs i am thinking off:
  • sweat border bug (before vu 10). People were able to trap mob on borders of two servers and sweat mob without any obstacles for hours. Mob did not get in bad state, was not able to hurt sweater, and what is worse: sometimes it got into "infinitve sweat mob" - it was possible to gather sweat from it untill someone came and killed it or server reset. So practically perfect afk sweater machine generating huge amounts of sweat each day.
  • mining sweat with Enmatter mining: for short time it was possible to actually mine sweat. Problem was that claim IV of Sweat was 2.00 to 2.99 TT value... this is 200k to 300k sweat bottles from one claim. Sure it took a lot of time to extract it and costed some decay on extractor but miner was mining pure markup. Bug was fixed in few days but imagine how much sweat got into the system and was never removed...
  • small birdies (chirpy, gibnib, fugabarba) not running away: it was possible to sweat dry any small birdie without any interruption. Mob did not run away and even did not move at all if not scared away by getting to close. There were thousands if not hundred of thousands of dry chirpies/gibnibs all around Calypso (mostly around Cape Corinth) and each had 10 to 80 sweat on it... similar "bug" to the first mentioned but at least it needed some interaction from player (in first case if lucky he coudl go afk for few hours gathering sweat all the time).

Of course the impact of vehicle and mindforce change is also significant but at least managed in some way by MA. But i guess most impact had those sweat bugs (espetially the mining one).

Disclaimer: those 500k i mentioned before are gathered all by myself legally without using any of the bugs. This is actually only small part of all sweat i have gathered in my gameplay time.


Even if you consider that influence of the bugs is gone by now consider this:
if person decides to sweat-dry-hunt a mob he will be getting 1sweat per 1hp of mob he hunts. Lets say he keeps his eco level at around 2.80 dmg/pec. Then dealing 1000 dmg costs him ~3.57ped.Then he gets loot. Lets say he is really unlucky and gets only 70% TT returns worth ~2.50ped.

To sum up:
cost: -3.57
loot: +2.50
sweat: 1k worth curently ~ +2.00

result: +0.93 profit + free skills in evasion, hunting and sweating ;).
And notice that longer logs show return rather close to 90% of TT than 70% which would result in +1.64 profit.

If players aproach is: "yeah but it is huge waste of time: sweating 1k is about 2 hours" then he should rather decide: "quit or deposit", than continue to sweat. If player thinks he can actually make huge profit by just sweating he should be warned that it is not likely to happen.

Dedicated sweater will never consider himself a slave :wise:.

Falagor
:bandit:

I agree with the statement "Dedicated sweater will never consider himself a slave" it was used to get the debate going and some idea's thrown on the floor. What my arguments are many and very because of one thing effecting others. 1. The Market is far from free for low end player in comparison to the medium and high end."Sweat can not be auctioned" So a true free market is just none existent there. 2. Stack able split to fill orders instead of pec ticker being unlocked in the auction does not allow for low end player to get max MU in filling orders when every pec counts. The rest of stack usual gets tt'd and cycled without MU. Just seems lopsided for the low end player.
Granted i'm probably one of them now but my first yr I depo'd more and have cut back. Will continue to do so till such time as balance issue's like this are corrected. It's there game. Who are these low end players? They very they come from all over mostly poorer 3rd world country's, There are even low end players in America. Point is they need to balance better or the people get tired and move on to other games with a bad taste in there mouth. Ever wonder why the bankers is so much more like a Pawn Broker than a banker? Hell liqueur stores and gun shops. Ok where is the Tobacconist shop I need a new peace pipe. I'm not here to argue numbers of anything other than the numbers of new players and retention amounts depo'd. I would never recommend this game at present time to anyone with or without money to depo. The balance is just not there for me and a lot of others from what I can tell. Sure there are record amounts of sweat in the system price's will be low for long time great. Now that there is a lot of it there needs to be a great use for it. :dunce: <-Really a Wizzardz Hat..
 
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*sigh* OK, I think it's time for a little Sweating history:

MA made Entropia almost 10 years ago. Their original design was based around a sci-fi "us vs the evil robots" on another planet that produced a type of "magic". That magic was mindforce. They designed the sweating system as 1/2 of the fuel (sweat+the mined resource force nexus)

The major use of mindforce from the beginning was always the TP chips. Now remember this was in a game that was Eudoria only. No other locations, planets, etc. and only 1/3 of the TPs we now have. (and no vehicles) the movement choices were run, swim or TP jump.

MA made sweat free to get because they knew the other 1/2 of the fuel had to be paid for, and this was a GREAT way to make a "try it before you buy it" system. Folks who couldn't/wouldn't deposit immediately had an ingame activity that could produce a few peds for them to buy their first equipment.

And did those first few peds come from MA as gifts? Hell no. They made sweat so low TT, that it was impossible to sweat enough and TT it at a level that negatively impacted MA's finances.

So the sweaters first peds came from other players. Mostly those who had already deposited. It was a great marketing move.

Years went by. Things changed. Amethera became the other continent. More TPs were added. Crysis came and the world was remade. Planets were born. Vehicles came.

Now Entropia still offers the "try it before you buy it" aspect. However, the demand for sweat, even with the addition of a few blueprints and other ways of using it, is still vastly reduced. Thus prices (again, almost exclusively determined by markup paid by players, not MA) are very low these days.

So, I repeat my comment. This "try it before you buy it" program built into an online game means one thing.

"Slave" is the stupidest word you can use to describe folks who are voluntarily playing an online game.

And no, the sweating aspect has exactly zero to do with PR in the sense that you are using it. The PR you are referring to gets folks to download the game. The sweating is the part that allows then to be active ingame before they spend their entertainment funds.
I would have to disagree with you on the sweat having nothing to do with PR. I have people asking me about the game from my posts.. I tell them it's still in Beta like the app. Don't bother till they get farther along better to go to a Indian Casino.

Horse captured by Spart
 

Spart

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You should maybe add that the amount of sweat a single avatar could gather was limited in the beginning.
(don't remember exactly how low limit was, 2k in sweat gathering? less?)

It was clearly never meant to be funding ones entire gameplay - the reason the limit was removed was mostly because people kept making new avatars to dodge the limit, but this does not mean that sweating should be seen as regular source of income now.

And on a sidenote:
People seem to forget that in most countries the minimum wages per hour exceed a sweaters "income" by far.
And it is probably the WORST idea for making some PEDs ingame (if you can't/don't want to deposit), there are dozends of ways to make a PED or two, all of them are way more fun.


If you don't do it for socializing or the defense skills or a weird goal in sweat gathering skills (read: you enjoy sweating, but that means you don't really care for the monetary aspect), it is probably the most brain damaging activity ever.



Chewing glass shards while stabbing yourself repeatedly in the eye with the pointy end of a pencil is more fun. Much more fun.
I thought I had a gogo gadget sweat gathering hat.
:king::twocents::whip::woohoo: Side note +Rep

Wanted to take time to name the cheering section.
 
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Nisha

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Now Entropia still offers the "try it before you buy it" aspect. However, the demand for sweat, even with the addition of a few blueprints and other ways of using it, is still vastly reduced. Thus prices (again, almost exclusively determined by markup paid by players, not MA) are very low these days.
You could add that since the introduction of Punies, rookie guns and rookie finders new players who rely on sweating have been able to get more game play even with the sweat price down.
 

Spart

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You could add that since the introduction of Punies, rookie guns and rookie finders new players who rely on sweating have been able to get more game play even with the sweat price down.
Amazing the kind of Nanerz the big ape gets when cage is rattled enough..;)
 

mastermesh

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Said it once - will say it again...

If price of sweat drops to 200% of the tt value of the sweat, sweaters should be happy since that's still better than most of the markup on items that that depositing hunters will find - EVER, over the course of a few years... At a tt value of one pec of sweat, that would be a payment of 2 pec.

The price at 1 ped per k is still a lot higher than it could be or needs to be since sweat is free to obtain. Over time, the market will adjust to bring it closer to that... It is starting to do that now, but still has a long ways to go before most sweat sells at 200%...

Never worked out the % of tt on what sweat sells for these days, but I can tell you that I guarnatee no slave irl is making those sort of wages! Hell, most millionares aren't making those types of profits irl through interest rates, profits on various businesses, etc... In other words, the sweaters aren't slaves, they are slave drivers to those that need sweat.
 
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Spart

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Said it once - will say it again...

If price of sweat drops to 200% of the tt value of the sweat, sweaters should be happy since that's still better than most of the markup on items that that depositing hunters will find - EVER, over the course of a few years... At a tt value of one pec of sweat, that would be a payment of 2 pec.

The price at 1 ped per k is still a lot higher than it could be or needs to be since sweat is free to obtain. Over time, the market will adjust to bring it closer to that... It is starting to do that now, but still has a long ways to go before most sweat sells at 200%...

Never worked out the % of tt on what sweat sells for these days, but I can tell you that I guarnatee no slave irl is making those sort of wages! Hell, most millionares aren't making those types of profits irl through interest rates, profits on various businesses, etc... In other words, the sweaters aren't slaves, they are slave drivers to those that need sweat.
What are you talking about? You can't TT sweat in the machine.. so is there really a tt value? Thats like saying something is worth a fortune.. no it's worth what someone will pay for it.. If there is no one that will buy it then it is worthless.
 

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What are you talking about? You can't TT sweat in the machine.. so is there really a tt value? Thats like saying something is worth a fortune.. no it's worth what someone will pay for it.. If there is no one that will buy it then it is worthless.
Yes you can TT sweat in the machine ;). Try dropign 1k of sweat into it... it will have 0.01ped value. So basicly sweat at 2ped per 1k is an item with 20000% markup.

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JohnCapital

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I would have to disagree with you on the sweat having nothing to do with PR. I have people asking me about the game from my posts.. I tell them it's still in Beta like the app. Don't bother till they get farther along better to go to a Indian Casino.

Horse captured by Spart
:scratch2: So since they can't sweat for free and make lots of money, you tell them a 10 year old game is only in beta and not play here?

What are you talking about? You can't TT sweat in the machine.. so is there really a tt value? Thats like saying something is worth a fortune.. no it's worth what someone will pay for it.. If there is no one that will buy it then it is worthless.
Yes, sweat has a TT value, simply very low.

Amazing the kind of Nanerz the big ape gets when cage is rattled enough..;)
These and other comments lead me to believe you're just trolling, so....

When you come back, perhaps you can convince me otherwise.
 
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Spart

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:scratch2: So since they can't sweat for free and make lots of money, you tell them a 10 year old game is only in beta and not play here?



Yes, sweat has a TT value, simply very low.



These and other comments lead me to believe you're just trolling, so....

When you come back, perhaps you can convince me otherwise.
Your perception Differs Compared to mine. I don't see how the OTS can troll his own thread wtf ever..Beta testing for free for enough company's I can tell you that how I feel about it. so Moderately troll that. I'm done Slaving.
I guess Sweat can Be Auctioned off as well?

I like how you moved this.
 
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# Hanne|SDS

I like how i'm being harassed by same moderator. Move my thread this time last time deleted my posts and my account if i remember correctly... I think this should be looked into..I'll Be back next here next yr. doing same thing and getting harassed by the same GOD complex Mod. That thinks I troll my own thread.. and because I find Meaning in art (Music Video's) and use them to add complexity to a conversation it does not make me a spammer.
Sir With all due respect these kind of actions. I love. Because it gives others a nice out look on you and a preconception to some of how you are. I suggest you retire your banhammer..:dunce:
 
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Spart

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Mirrored rant.:scratch2:
 
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