Stage 5 Off-World SEMI's

[Frigid]

So there is one free spot in Finnish main team, pilot preferred.

Ok...I admit when I am wrong.

When you said the above phrase I thought you were speaking about yourself, but it seesm you were not. Mea culpa.

So...substitute your name in my rant to the person who left

Sadly, I don't think replacements are allowed this late. That is why the main teams were expanded to twelve.

As to getting to CND, you have a couple weeks to get up there. I may park my lilly-white butt on CND this weekend to avoid the rush

 

[Centech]

Indeed we need this clarified although I can't imagine he is really saying you can hunt on planet as long as you screenshot on cnd.

I'd also like to see updated rosters, I hear that at least one team has made several substitutions and we all need to plan accordingly.

 

[Jimmy B]

Indeed we need this clarified although I can't imagine he is really saying you can hunt on planet as long as you screenshot on cnd.

I think Hurrikane said he's away for a few days, so we may have to wait a little before this is resolved.

But yeah I agree Centech, I can't believe that's Hurri's intention either, but if its not then the rule needs to be amended so as to avoid it. Only way I can think of is to insist the actual person globalling is the one who records the screenshot.

 

[Frigid]

Indeed we need this clarified although I can't imagine he is really saying you can hunt on planet as long as you screenshot on cnd.

I'd also like to see updated rosters, I hear that at least one team has made several substitutions and we all need to plan accordingly.

Really? As long as they don't violate this clause:

Also: From Jan 25th, all avatars signed for their nation of choice may not sign for any other nation during the rest of this year's Tournament. So if you "signed for the wrong team" for whatever reason, change your allegiance by retracting your signing to the Team you are leaving, and signing for the Team you choose instead. If I can't see that you've done it, it won't be recorded, and you won't be in the other team.

 

[Wormie]

When you said the above phrase I thought you were speaking about yourself, but it seesm you were not. Mea culpa.

So...substitute your name in my rant to the person who left

No hard feelings, I was not expressing me too clearly... First I really was thinking to quit while writing, didn't think too much how it can be understood by others.

If I remember right some AoW-ppl were talking about to join in Team Finland..

 

[iulrorck]

hello team i have a ship and you can reserve it during the wof for main or support you ll have spetial cheap rate. just pm me for booking.

 

[Chopper]

Can you clarify Hurri? Is it acceptable to have a support team where the person taking the screens is on CND but other people in the team are on the ground scoring globals?

Of course, those Support Team members who don't want to go or can somehow help from the ground (?) can choose to not go to Space.

Hurrikane

As a Hound, and as someone who has known Hurri for a while, I will give my interpretation of this. Note tho that I am not Hurrikane nor can I make the rules for the WoF, only enforce them

The "Rules" in place for the World of Firepower, as with the Festival of Firepower, are those which can reasonably be monitored and enforced.

Hurri's veiled hint about somehow helping from the ground indicates that if a support team on the planet globalled on a support mob, and the screenshot was captured by someone on CND then there is no way that it can be proved that any wrongdoing took place, and therefore no wrongdoing has taken place.

Good luck getting multiple globals on small Tripudion tho...

 

[Jimmy B]

Hurri's veiled hint about somehow helping from the ground indicates that if a support team on the planet globalled on a support mob, and the screenshot was captured by someone on CND then there is no way that it can be proved that any wrongdoing took place, and therefore no wrongdoing has taken place.

Thanks Chopper

 

[Frigid]

As a Hound, and as someone who has known Hurri for a while, I will give my interpretation of this. Note tho that I am not Hurrikane nor can I make the rules for the WoF, only enforce them

The "Rules" in place for the World of Firepower, as with the Festival of Firepower, are those which can reasonably be monitored and enforced.

Hurri's veiled hint about somehow helping from the ground indicates that if a support team on the planet globalled on a support mob, and the screenshot was captured by someone on CND then there is no way that it can be proved that any wrongdoing took place, and therefore no wrongdoing has taken place.

Good luck getting multiple globals on small Tripudion tho...

mmmmmmmyeah...I'm going to need a definate ruling from Hurricaine on this.

There is intent and interpretation, but your interpretation is in direct conflict of this:

[Start Point: Club NEVERDIE Dancefloor. All Main Team members are required to be on CND for the Start and Finish of the Match.
The Main Team for the Semi's can be up to FIVE of the Main 12.

Support Teams also need to be there; although scores will be recorded on the day, ONLY SCREENSHOTS TAKEN ON CND WILL MAKE THE FINAL, CONFIRMED SCORE.

From this it seems clear to me that support teams are also supposed to be on CND. Howevere, as you say this will be very difficult to police given the nature of teams and unlimited support. It might be possible to embed judges into support teams as they are in the Main Teams, but aside from that, I'm not sure how to police it aside from some harsh screen-shotting and showing avatars in-range on CND.

Planetside support globals screenshotted on CND: yes or no?

We let screenshots slide early on for the main teams as embedded judges made cheating nearly impossible.

 

[Count Joe]

The main reason for this is so anyone and everyone can in some way take part in the WoF. This has always been the core premise of every event I've held, and the WoF is no exception, While the bulk of the scoring opportunities will be given to the Main Teams (their mobs will generally have bigger and more lucrative spawns than the Support Team moblists, and the points are also higher across the board) the opportunity for those who want to help their country, even first-day noobs who've read abput about it in a magazine, could not be taken away. There could be no better introduction to EU than to take part in a full-on hunt with dozens of their countrymen... a good percentage of new players lured by the press releases should stay here, and that must be a good thing

This new rule if it is as we think it is, makes it not so easy for everyone to take part of the event.. as they seems to be forced to pay 50 ped to take part. I doubt a first-day noob could take part of it now

and for those who just know about this event and maybe knows what mob its supose to be at this day, and starts to hunt it like crazy for their country, may not get their points counted as they had to create an account on EF, find the section about WoF, and try to understand the rule.

maybe im a little hard on this but I really dont understand why support most be on CND to make their contribution for their country.

Hopefuly im wrong about this

 

[Frigid]

This new rule if it is as we think it is, makes it not so easy for everyone to take part of the event.. as they seems to be forced to pay 50 ped to take part. I doubt a first-day noob could take part of it now

A first-day n00b *can* participate, even on CND. No promise was ever made that they would be effective. n00bs can fap or run mobs with very little skill. They can shoot. But in the end, they are still noobs and no every effective.

I had a "n00b" on support that wanted to help us on troopers, but I cut him when I realized he had only an unmaped opalo and no TP....for his own good.

 

[aridash]

This new rule if it is as we think it is, makes it not so easy for everyone to take part of the event.. as they seems to be forced to pay 50 ped to take part. I doubt a first-day noob could take part of it now

and for those who just know about this event and maybe knows what mob its supose to be at this day, and starts to hunt it like crazy for their country, may not get their points counted as they had to create an account on EF, find the section about WoF, and try to understand the rule.

maybe im a little hard on this but I really dont understand why support most be on CND to make their contribution for their country.

Hopefuly im wrong about this

i think you've kind of argued against your own point here. We cant really take the "first-day noob" participating at face value (and Hurrikane should maybe not use that phrase again), since as you point out they wouldnt really know how to get involved without also being aware of EF. How would first-dayers have faired against Goki, Bristles, Troopers or Globsters? Once we assume that we mean the involvment of newbies with some skill, equipment and knowledge to get them to the hunting grounds used so far, we can also assume that they can probably afford a 50ped trip to CND if they want to represent their nation.

anyway, it was supposed to be off-world from day one, so if there is any "new rule" its that support can operate on world.

 

[Centech]

maybe im a little hard on this but I really dont understand why support most be on CND to make their contribution for their country.

Because its the rules? I really still fail to see what the big deal is. Was there an army of OJs ready to hunt dasps who cant do it because its so oppresive to pay 20 ped to fly to cnd?

This is a very serious competition to many people involved.. many of us have spent hundreds or thousands of RL dollars on gear, repairs and ammo participating. I just dont see having to get to CND being some sort of sudden breaking point.

 

[Count Joe]

i think you've kind of argued against your own point here. We cant really take the "first-day noob" participating at face value (and Hurrikane should maybe not use that phrase again), since as you point out they wouldnt really know how to get involved without also being aware of EF. How would first-dayers have faired against Goki, Bristles, Troopers or Globsters? Once we assume that we mean the involvment of newbies with some skill, equipment and knowledge to get them to the hunting grounds used so far, we can also assume that they can probably afford a 50ped trip to CND if they want to represent their nation.

anyway, it was supposed to be off-world from day one, so if there is any "new rule" its that support can operate on world.

I didnt argue against my own point at all. its two different scenarios you are mixing in to one.

Hurrikane state very cleary that everyone should be able to take part in WoF during the discussion we had about support not needing to register to take part.

And start to assume a bunch of things would make this situation even harder.

I can understand why mainteam have to be on CND or something like that but not support. being on the planet kinda makes it possible for EVERYONE to take part of this event in some way. Even a newbie without a singel ped could take part in some way (run around and look for mobs for example)

 

[Chopper]

Jeez...

I don't see how there could possibly be any misunderstandings...

GLOBAL: Main Team Mob
by Main Team Screenshot: Unnecessary

GLOBAL: Support Team Mob
by Main Team Doesn't count

GLOBAL: Main Team Mob
by Support Team Doesn't Count

GLOBAL: Support Team Mob
by Support Team Screenshot Captured on CND: Points

GLOBAL: Bonus Mob
by either Team Screenshot captured on CND: Points


All you have to do is figure out how to get as many of the above (that count) as possible... There are many possible ways...

It's not complicated.

Well ok, it's slightly complicated, but come on - you're clever folk.

Aren't you..?

 

[Frigid]

Jeez...

I don't see how there could possibly be any misunderstandings...

GLOBAL: Main Team Mob
by Main Team Screenshot: Unnecessary

GLOBAL: Support Team Mob
by Main Team Doesn't count

GLOBAL: Main Team Mob
by Support Team Doesn't Count

GLOBAL: Support Team Mob
by Support Team Screenshot Captured on CND: Points

GLOBAL: Bonus Mob
by either Team Screenshot captured on CND: Points


All you have to do is figure out how to get as many of the above (that count) as possible... There are many possible ways...

It's not complicated.

Well ok, it's slightly complicated, but come on - you're clever folk.

Aren't you..?

WE are...we get it. Not our first rodeo, y'know. You don't need to dumb it down or spoonfeed it to us. Besides, you missed a couple contingencies and you got one wrong.

Its the detail taht I pointed out in this post: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/wof-2008/112157-stage-5-off-world-semis-4.html#post1339134

The part about "Support Teams also need to be there" is the sticky wicket. Championship rules and all, what-what...hate to get bonked on a technicality.
Since our screenshots are typically taken by main-team members anyway being on CND really ins't that hard. AS THIS PORTION OF THE RULES WAS NOT MENTIONED IN THE ORIGINAL RULES THREAD, AND IS SPECIFIC TO THE OFF-WORLD SEMI, IT IS ONLY NATURAL THAT WE NEED CLARIFICATIONS JUST AS WE DID FOR ORIGINAL SET OF RULES.

If Hurricaine has hinted otherwise, we are calling him out to just come out and say it lest a malevolent support team planetside gets a team penalized...see the dilmemma?

I'm sure you do...don't you?

I think the "spirit" of the round was to have everyone, main and support, off-world. If not, we can easily have hordes of support planet-side hunting chickens.

No offence, but all *your* assumptions are just that, even if you were Hurrs' twin brother with one of his kidney's transplanted into you, you are still not Hurricaine. We are calling on Hurr to clarify it....

 

[Count Joe]

Jeez...

I don't see how there could possibly be any misunderstandings...

GLOBAL: Main Team Mob
by Main Team Screenshot: Unnecessary

GLOBAL: Support Team Mob
by Main Team Doesn't count

GLOBAL: Main Team Mob
by Support Team Doesn't Count

GLOBAL: Support Team Mob
by Support Team Screenshot Captured on CND: Points

GLOBAL: Bonus Mob
by either Team Screenshot captured on CND: Points


All you have to do is figure out how to get as many of the above (that count) as possible... There are many possible ways...

It's not complicated.

Well ok, it's slightly complicated, but come on - you're clever folk.

Aren't you..?

wow arent you a smart guy.. really, is it like that?

we wanna know for sure what the rule exactly means.

for example, can we have one guy standing on cnd and taking all the screens from supportglobals made on the planet?

 

[Jimmy B]

No offence, but all *your* assumptions are just that, even if you were Hurrs' twin brother with one of his kidney's transplanted into you, you are still not Hurricaine. We are calling on Hurr to clarify it....

Well it seems from Hurri's veiled hint that Chopper's interpretation of it all is probably right. We do need confirmation from Hurrikane of course, but Chopper was just doing his best to help whilst Hurrikane is away:

Here's the thing; I'm off on a trip to Prague for 5 days, and J Boy's as busy as I am right now. So I'm giving you all the scores that were recorded on the day here, below this. The idea is if you disagree with anything we've got here, please say so in this thread and myself or J boy will address the problem before posting the scores "Graphically" towards the end of the week.

 

[Chopper]

Re-reading my post in the cold light of day, I may be able to detect a shade more sarcasm than I intended to inject into it, and for that I apologise.

I had spend that day dealing with Hordes of utter Morons, so I was still in That Mode... Didn't mean to cause any offence..

Hurrikane's intention for the spirit of this round is that all participants be Off-World, support included.

But YES, if you had a ScreenShotter on CND capturing any globals on scoring mobs from the Support team, I am 100% sure they will count.

Hurrikane's word is, of course, final in these matter, and his take on it should and will be sought 'pon his return...

By the way Frigid: which one did I get wrong, and what did I miss?

 

[Frigid]

Re-reading my post in the cold light of day, I may be able to detect a shade more sarcasm than I intended to inject into it, and for that I apologise.

I had spend that day dealing with Hordes of utter Morons, so I was still in That Mode... Didn't mean to cause any offence..

That's ok...I had a couple of people getting technical and pissy with me, too, so it was the perfect storm of sarcasm and "not going to take this anymore".

Hurrikane's intention for the spirit of this round is that all participants be Off-World, support included.

But YES, if you had a ScreenShotter on CND capturing any globals on scoring mobs from the Support team, I am 100% sure they will count.

Hurrikane's word is, of course, final in these matter, and his take on it should and will be sought 'pon his return...

We shall...

By the way Frigid: which one did I get wrong, and what did I miss?

Well, if I wanted to be a *total* technical wanker, I would have considered you missed HOFs and ATHs. Furthermore, while you were bringing up "no score" instances, you missed globals, hofs and aths on non-scoring mobs, crafting, mining, and spaceships...discoveries and PK hofs generate no peds, so I wouldn't consider them.

...and can be quite petty, technical, and irritating when motivated.

The one you got wrong was that a score on a support mob by a main team would not need a screenshot.

I'm 90% sure you are right, but we have to resolve the grey areas between the spirit, language of the rules, and veiled hints.

 

[Chopper]

Thanks for all your feedback, Frigid

Well, if I wanted to be a *total* technical wanker, I would have considered you missed HOFs and ATHs. Furthermore, while you were bringing up "no score" instances, you missed globals, hofs and aths on non-scoring mobs, crafting, mining, and spaceships...discoveries and PK hofs generate no peds, so I wouldn't consider them.

Fair enough... Didn't bother listing these specifically, as they are generally taken to be self evident. I wanted only to clarify the scores that seemed under debate.

...and can be quite petty, technical, and irritating when motivated.

You certainly can, Angel, but you do it so well

The one you got wrong was that a score on a support mob by a main team would not need a screenshot.

You're right, that would have been incorrect...

GLOBAL: Main Team Mob
by Main Team Screenshot: Unnecessary

GLOBAL: Support Team Mob
by Main Team Doesn't count

Whatever else people think about the WoF, and it's Grand-dad the FoF, it certainly gets some lively and healthy debate going, and what's wrong with that?

 

[Clam Jamphrie]

D.c.r

Right... Am I right in believing that there are issues regarding people getting to CND and the subsequent cost? Or is it about the rules being negotiable?

I'm sorry but I have to say that if a WoF team or their relative support cannot get the ped or flight to CND, then they may not deserve the title of WoF champions. Don't get me wrong, it's not about how much ped you have, but if as a nation you cannot get your team and support to CND, kill the mobs on the list or find you have the need to tell your support team how to equip a weapon, then the WoF Title may not be your thing!

I consider it simple... Get your team plus support to CND. Kill the mobs on the list and whoever scores the most..wins! Of course the Tournament is open to anyone from uber to noob, but there are many roles in a WoF team.

Personally I would rather lose honestly than win dishonourably! To me it's about 'kissing the badge' and having pride in my Nation. I'm sure there are ways to 'side-step' the rules and bend the spectrum of honesty, but why would you? I guess there are ways for support teams to stay on calypso and score points, but if you do I hope you rot! Roll the dice and take your chances! It's just not in the spirit in things. Nobody gains National pride from deception!

I'm sure Hurrikane (when he returns) will explain it more diplomatically and more precise, but I've just spent too much time trawling through WoF Scores and screenshots to warrant such quibbling...

Shh! Go win the WoF and make history! Lalalalaala

 

[Hurrikane]

Ok, live from the Czech Republic (1 hour before I leave for the airport to sort all this out properly)....

1. Thanks for all those (Chop, Safara, Frigid, J Boy etc) who have stepped in while I was away and helped to calm this thread down a little

2. NEVERDIE is a part of the WoF now; his Bank has put up prize money and I see a long future with ND and the WoF. The Off-World Semi's were NOT thought of because of this. I just didn't want to exclude the Mobs found in space; I know many love CND and CP more than the planet, so to include them in a moblist was just polite; good manners.

3. The Rule about screenshots; If I'm calling a round the Off-World Semi's, then obviously it indicates that all those hunting should be Off-World. I was a little unclear in my responses before. But as Chopper has said, the Rules are what can be enforced. So yes, if you have one/several support team members Off-World and others in the same teams hunting Bery's and Tripe planet-side, this will make those in space get swirlies if you global. I can't tell where the Mob was killed. So it would count.

This may mean a few less people go to space (which was the idea of the round) but if people wish to try this tactic there is little I can do.

You know the original plan (back last autumn) was to have Stage 4 as the Off-World round? I changed this so only those who had proven themselves to be among the best (the TOP 6) would need to go; I presumed by then the remaining teams would be the kind of professional hunters who would not blink when faced with a change of venue. I'm sorry Finland have found Space a problem, but I am sure they will be there and score like champions anyway

4. The teams are 5 in the Semi's to allow more to be at either CP or CND for the hunt. Also this builds up to the Final, where teams can be 6.

5. The MIA rule still applies; this rule is primarily a courtesy to me; so that all who hunted are present in time to get the scores, and to let me get on with checking in and sending out the next hunt. I saw that without this rule hunters would simply log off after the end of the hunt and no discussion or debate would be settled early, or "nipped in the bud"; I need to keep the Tournament efficient. If you don't want penalties, it's pretty simple; stop hunting a little earlier than "too late" and get on the ship! (There are always the CND mobs to plug if you get there early).

Thanks again,

Hurrikane

 

[Fairy]

ehhhm isnt it rather easy to solve
If the supporter killing the mob takes the screenshot and include cords, then it wont be hard to check, right?
Who recives loot is visible and if thats yourself you obviously killed the mob and you are showing were you are by the cords

 

[Doomie]

ehhhm isnt it rather easy to solve
If the supporter killing the mob takes the screenshot and include cords, then it wont be hard to check, right?
Who recives loot is visible and if thats yourself you obviously killed the mob and you are showing were you are by the cords

For a woman you do think rather simple... If I didnt know better I would have said you were a cross dresser

But she got a point - easy solution to a simple problem...

Honestly - it was the plan from the start that it was supposed to be on CND so cant come as a suprise to anyone...

If any wants to forfeit Team Denmark is ready to take over

 

[Frigid]

ehhhm isnt it rather easy to solve
If the supporter killing the mob takes the screenshot and include cords, then it wont be hard to check, right?
Who recives loot is visible and if thats yourself you obviously killed the mob and you are showing were you are by the cords

That sounds easy, but having a few dozen on support, gathering and organizing potentially dozens of screenies from differnt people is hard.

"swirlies" are not required in the screenshots, especially for those doing so manually. Team planet-side hunting bery and trips do not even need a team-mate, just someone taking the screenies ON CND.

Honestly, I didn't care where the teams could be, but for the people who say that the flight to CND will break them, this might be the best way. I just wanted to male sure that everyone was clear on the rules. I didn't want a team bsuting their humps getting 40 people to CND whle another team could just leave the 40 planetside.

I'm going to CND to run support: I haven't been there in a long time and I've been wanting to do big trips for a long time.

So, I'll see you all on CND...or not

PS my assumption is that while we have becoem quite lax at posting screenshots, for this round it will be REQUIRED for support?

 

[PINKY]

Whatever else people think about the WoF, and it's Grand-dad the FoF, it certainly gets some lively and healthy debate going, and what's wrong with that?

Absolutly nothing - in fact some people are getting very good at debating - you could even consider calling them "Master Debaters!"



The way I see this thing going is thus:

We are all supposed to be on CND - however, its not the end of the world if some people stay behind because they cant afford it or don't want to spend the air fare. As long as they have someone on the team taking the screenies on CND they can be included too.

Think that makes everyone happy - +rep hurrikane!

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

So group B will be kind o like "finnkampen" then?

GO TEAM EFFIN' SWEDEN!

 

[aridash]

"swirlies" are not required in the screenshots, especially for those doing so manually. Team planet-side hunting bery and trips do not even need a team-mate, just someone taking the screenies ON CND.

dont think you've got that quite right, maybe an actual swirly laden screenie isnt needed, but the requirement is for you to be in the team of the same name as that globalling and showing a position on CND. (correct me if im wrong here, Hurrikane)

eitherway, i'll be on CND, looking forward to it.

 

[Lobbe]

GJ cool thing